Old Submissions
Posted by Chris L on Dec 20th, 2007
2007
Dec 20
Do you know of a good article we should link to? Has an unfair attack been made on a Christian brother or sister which you believe we should address? Is there a topic you have questions about that you would like us to explore?
While we can’t promise that we will respond to every idea posted here, this is a place for you to make these kinds of suggestions. The writers here at CRN.Info check here on an occasional basis and (hopefully) will respond to your suggestion. If not, bug us a little bit more…
January 16th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
Have you seen this post on CRN?
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=4218
Particularly note the second “here” link and take note of the source that they are using and the advertisements all around the outside (Marilyn Manson concert, Deja Vu strip club, lustlab, etc.)
January 17th, 2008 at 5:57 am
CRN lies.
John MacArthur slanders…
But what else is new?
iggy
January 29th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Check out this guy!
January 29th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Iggy,
The use of “ODM” gives you away…
January 29th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Not to mention I semi-plagiarized Tim last post!
iggy
January 30th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I think crn.com is unfairly attacking westboro baptist’s protest of Heath Ledgers Funeral
( I am being sarcastic here)
You should look and give them some props for once!
January 30th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
PB,
they often give kudos… so it is not just “for once”.
In fact, this is the first time CNR.info and CRN are on the same team due to Chris R’s post you are referring to.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
I noticed the editor at CRN references a four-year-old article by Tim Challies to remind us that Mother Teresa is probably not in heaven:
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=4456
Now *that’s* research.
February 14th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
I read these “warnings” and so on about “Lord, save us from your followers”
The more I look into it it looks like this movie is actually being made by Christians. It looks like a platform for helping to dispel myths about Christians and remind people that hate ins’t a Christian virtue and actual Christians are much more approachable then we seem.
But this film is getting slammed across the blogosphere by ODM’s and so.
http://watcherslamp.blogspot.com/2008/02/heresy-goes-to-hollywood-summer-08.html
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=4471
Do you think you guys could try to interview the filmakers of this flick for an article or podcast? They seem to have a lot of good things to say, check out their website and the filmclips they have there.http://www.lordsaveus.net/
It looks like a good flick to put on peoples radars to support from what I have seen so far.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
http://whileromeburns.blogspot.com/2008/02/trees-tyson-and-tony-jones-sol-strikes.html
Quick reply I “cooked up” after reading Ingrid’s latest. Thought you might want to have a look.
February 21st, 2008 at 12:16 pm
This might be of interest, since you have been talking about Viola’s book lately. It’s a blog post about a Barna poll on what people think constitutes “church.” Some of the responses are interesting (e.g., participating in spiritual activities on the internet). There is, however, quite a discussion going on about so-called “home churches.” See:
http://blog.9marks.org/2008/02/are-we-fiddling.html
February 23rd, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Talk about getting too focused on minor points and missing the bigger issues!
iggy
February 26th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
No… really this is day four… they skipped a day and then came back with more empty false accusations! LOL!
February 27th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Two NEW articles covering Warren Smith, rabid anti-Rick Warren author of Deceived On Purpose: The New Age Implications of the Purpose Driven Church.
Warren Smith was the guest on Pastor Chuck Smith’s radio program, then spoke at Calvary Chapel (Costa Mesa), and is now scheduled to speak at he Calvary Chapel Senior Pastor’s Conference!
I have just completed a 25-point refutation/response to Warren Smith’s lecture at Calvary Chapel
http://abanes.com/warrensmith_morelies.html
This is a compliment to my first article on Warren Smith’s book Deceived On Purpose
http://abanes.com/warrensmith.html
Enjoy,
Richard Abanes
February 27th, 2008 at 10:03 am
Is this an open invitation to write a 50 point rebuttal to your 25 point rebuttal?
February 27th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Richard to label Warren as New Age is a major stertch and really without merit. This is where the hyper-ventilation approach is counter productive to any real exchange of strong positions.
I am one who, as I said, considers Rick Warren a believing follower of Christ. However his methods are hyper-pragmatic and misrepresent that cross carying nature of Christianity.
Additionally, I stongly disagree with his unions with many questionable groups in humanitarian efforts. His “man of peace” suposition taken from the gospels is an adventure in subjective interpretation that appaers nowhere in the teaching epistles. Also, his suggestion to the crowd in Switzerland that doing good regardless of your motivation is acceptables is again unsubstantiated in the New Testament. And to suggest that churches so permiate the landscape worldwide that they would be greatly suited for profiteering bases is breathtaking.
All of this I attribute to a hyper-pragmatism that removes both the ethereal quality and the eternal implications that cannot be separated and unpresented from the teachings of the New Tesatement. I have confidence in Rick’s good intentions, but I believe he is straying.
February 28th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Nathan - Is this an open invitation to write a 50 point rebuttal to your 25 point rebuttal?
RA: Feel free to do so.
February 28th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
I think Nathan was just giving you a hard time, Richard - he’s not a Rick Warren critic
February 28th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
H: Richard to label Warren as New Age is a major stertch and really without merit. This is where the hyper-ventilation approach is counter productive to any real exchange of strong positions.
RA: Agreed
- - - -
H: However his methods are hyper-pragmatic and misrepresent that cross carrying nature of Christianity.
RA: Can you go here and tell me what you think and how what Warren/Saddleback teaches runs contrary to “that cross carrying nature of Christianity” (which, tbh, is a phrase I am not sure I understand).
http://abanes.com/Warren_Doctrine.html
http://abanes.com/cross_sin_hell.html
http://abanes.com/warrenessentials.html
- - - -
H: I stongly disagree with his unions with many questionable groups in humanitarian efforts.
RA: My opinion is here:
http://abanes.com/unequally_yoked.html
http://abanes.com/reconciliation.html
– - -
H: Also, his suggestion to the crowd in Switzerland that doing good regardless of your motivation is acceptable is again unsubstantiated in the New Testament.
RA: My opinion is here:
http://abanes.com/peace.html (see the DAVOS clip section)
RA
February 28th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Oh I know he was just bustin’ my chops.
March 2nd, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Talk about some whacked theology! and i am not talking about Tony Jones’s.
March 3rd, 2008 at 12:08 am
Pastorboy has yet to give an answer to his bad theology.
March 8th, 2008 at 6:29 am
Some recent comments by Piper about “excommunicating” Arminians are causing a bit of a firestorm. Here is one good response:
http://julieclawson.com/2008/03/06/excommunicating-arminians/
March 11th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Found this on Mark Driscoll’s blog, thought it was interesting:
March 15th, 2008 at 9:25 am
I saw this via a link at http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com
http://dougpagitt.com/?p=87
As far as I am concerned, the case is closed on Doug Pagitt and Rob Bell…
I am schocked you folks haven’t said anything about this yet…
March 15th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Well, if the case is closed as far as you are concerned. That settles it for me too. Dave Marriot says it, I believe it, that settles it.
March 15th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Dave,
Quit pretending like up till now you were reasonably considering what Bell and Pagitt had to say.
March 15th, 2008 at 11:25 am
is “schocked” like a Germanic, more intense form of “shock”?
need-to-know information.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:41 am
A lesson in how some unfortunate “discerners” think can be found at:
http://kimolsen.wordpress.com/2008/03/17/crisis-in-the-church-rick-warren/#comments
After attempting to blog respond at the site called “DISCERN IT,” I was met with some of the nastiest, hate-filled, and blinded replies in my experiences in cyberspace, followed by me being blocked and congratulatory remarks all around by those who remained to each other because they had met the enemy and he was confounded: “You DID it,” one gushing poster said, patting the others on the back.
Apparently, I had been exposed as someone who was not only lying, but boldly now calling for a synthesis between other religions and Christianity. Their proof? My book “Inside Today’s Mormonism — which actually REFUTES every major doctrine of the LDS Church, going into great detail to argue AGAINST the most up-to-date arguments by Mormons who are defending their faith.
In attempting to communicate the actual contents of my book and my stand on Mormonism, I was castigated at every turn, despite the clear facts — which no one wanted to hear (as it turns out, none of them had even read the book).
This interaction is a very, very clear example of how these people think. Consider these comebacks:
“Richard has been hitting websites like this with his trademark self-righteous doublespeak followed by abusive (belittling and demeaning) shame tactics”
“the true Gospel of Christ is not what Rick Warren, or Richard Abanes, can really be about”
“Sir if there is anyone who is a liar it is you!â€
“Mr Abanes you are a CLASSIC Post-Modernist Blogger! â€
“I am at great peace with God and my comments unlike yours do honor God and not men.â€
“RA is a scoundrel, a real man of the world.â€
“Richard you give me shivers. your mask is off. And I don’t like what I see.â€
Ah well. Guys/Gals, these people need some serious prayer. It’s like they are so blinded by hate, anger, zeal, and paranoia, they can’t even see truth when its staring them in the face. They see the color red and they say it’s yellow. They see a box and call it a triangle. Soeone turns left and they claim the perosn turned right. I’m almost left speechless after an interaction like this (my first post begins about 1/4 down the blog page). I thought this might be a good way to examine how such folks operate even in the face of getting true information straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak — in other words, instead of me talking about Rick Warren, I was there just trying to talk about what my OWN beliefs were, and yet it didn’t matter. Now THAT is extraordinary.
Basically, it came down to me saying, “Guys, I believe ABC.” Their response was, “No you don’t! You believe XYZ, and your a liar and a scoundrel, too.”
How can you argue with that?
R. Abanes
March 18th, 2008 at 9:00 am
There will always be aggressive hyperbole in those comment sections. However it isn’t as much what Rick believes, as per his statment of faith, that some of us disagree with, it is his methodology. I am a stauch Arminian, but I reject hyper-pragmatism as a means to communicate the gospel. And I reject joining hnads with unbelievers in humanitarian efforts that obscure the name of Jesus.
I do not question his motives, but even you must see our concerns even while you yourself and from your perspective do not see them similarly. A person can claim to believe ABC and through questionable methodology distort the nature of those beliefs which is the issue at hand, not telling you what you believe.
You are very gracious and courageous to particpate in that comment thread, and even though I may agree with the basic points of some of those commentors, I still contend a level of respect and love should be afforded and without the “scorched earth” exchanges.
BTW - your scholaraly comments complete with quotes reveals a level of energy of which I am unfamiliar!
March 18th, 2008 at 9:24 am
RICK: There will always be aggressive hyperbole in those comment sections.
RA: Hey Rick! It’s not so much hyperbole I mind. Or even a certain level of aggression (such is the nature of blogs). But I think when it sinks to a level out and out lying and character insults that are not hyperbole at all, but made as actual statements of fact, then that is where a line (probably several) has been crossed.
——
RICK: However it isn’t as much what Rick believes, as per his statement of faith, that some of us disagree with, it is his methodology.
RA: I think you stand in good company. I don’t even necessarily agree with his methodology in all areas or choices he has made. We’re all free to have such disagreements, and in turn do things our own ways as we seek to serve God, our Lord and judge. But this is not a freedom that peeps like those on the blog and elsewhere are allowing for. A different methodology, a different personality, a different decision about whatever, and you become a target for attack no matter what you believe. That’s not apologetics, that’s just sin — especially when lies, half-truths, misinformation, out-of-context quotes, and disinformation is used to make the charges. Then, when truth is supplied, it is ignored (again, very bad).
—-
RICK: I am a staunch Arminian, but I reject hyper-pragmatism as a means to communicate the gospel. And I reject joining hands with unbelievers in humanitarian efforts that obscure the name of Jesus.
RA: I can understand your objections, and they hold weight. Although, for example, on the issue of joining hands with unbelievers to assist in social causes, I see nothing biblical against that - see my article on being unequally yoked at
http://abanes.com/unequally_yoked.html . And insofar as pragmatism goes, this is a very vague term that might mean one thing to one person and another thing to another person. How far is too far? Seems very subjective to me.
—-
RICK: I do not question his motives, but even you must see our concerns even while you yourself and from your perspective do not see them similarly. A person can claim to believe ABC and through questionable methodology distort the nature of those beliefs which is the issue at hand, not telling you what you believe.
RA: Yeah, I understand. I have no problem with that. I think part of the issue is how people are approaching the subject. They are not allowing for freedom of choice of other Christians — Bible-believing, Christ-loving, doctrinally-sound Christians — when it comes to how that Christian preaches the gospel, speaks publicly, or even who they associate with. The line of doctrinal purity and biblical soundness has been moved from where it should be (i.e., the bloodline and essentials of the faith) way way back to where you are not behind the line unless you:
- say “hell” enough everywhere you go,
- answer questions from interviewers perfectly the way the “discerners” think you should have answered it,
- speak at the right places as opposed to the wrong places
- use the correct type of music in your church
- preach “the gospel” using the exact same methods/messages that is preached in the churches of the “discerners”
- never use words/phrases/terms that have been used by non-Christians (even though you mean something else entirely)
Freedoms of Christ, not to mention just freedoms as an American, are being eroded by these people who want everyone to view everything exactly as they do — or else you get targeted and attacked as a heretic who is poisoning the church. It’s hard to see how things escalated in a similar fashion during the witch hunts of Medieval Europe, the Crusades, and the Salem witch trials. Actually, it’s a bit unnerving.
—-
RICK: You are very gracious and courageous to participate in that comment thread, and even though I may agree with the basic points of some of those commentors, I still contend a level of respect and love should be afforded and without the “scorched earth†exchanges.
RA: I try — although I am not always successful. I mean, let’s face it, you can only be called a liar, a scoundrel, a false teacher, and a deceiver so often without it eventually wounding you very deeply, especially when you have given your entire life to defending the faith as an apologist. It gets…… tiresome and discouraging. The lies are so vicious. I think what is most painful is seeing it all done in the name of Christ, under the guise of righteousness, for the supposed sake of truth and defending the truth. It’s so sad. So very, very, sad.
March 18th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I will continue to disagree with some of Rick Warren’s methodology and associations, however, I believe he is a Christian who has a heart for the lost and I admire his work in Africa. I took great umbrage when some criticized Kay Warren when she shared her story of coming to compassion about African AIDs sufferers.
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/03/this-is-not-christ-k-ay-warren-rick.html
So I appreaciate your tone and encoursge you to guard your heart. As one who speaks out on my blog I find it necessary to temper my views with the Spirit of Christ. I cannot claim complete success in that.
Peace in Christ.
March 18th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
I’m holding a “kill the keg” party at my house! Bring your bathing suits.
Oh…I forgot, I don’t drink. Oh well, iced tea!
March 19th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Tim H. and R.A.,
Would you guys mind taking the conversation to email or some other thread, as this thread is really not meant to be a place for back and forth, but really just a place for commenters to present possible article submissions.
 Thanks.
March 19th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Phil,
Appreciate your response and we can certainly do that. Maybe you can recommend a thread we can move this to on this site? I don’t see anything in the list of catagories where we can continue. And I certainly thought that comments were allowed since others have done so above, sorry.
Blessing to you..
March 19th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Tim,
Yeah, we do allow comments here, but I just didn’t want a potential submission to get lost in the sea of comments. As far as where else you can go, I see Richard has a thread about this on his blog now.
We actually have been periodically deleting the comments from this thread for housekeeping sake.
Â
March 19th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
PHIL!!!! HIT THE DELETE BUTTONS BUUDDY!!!
March 28th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23847511
This is the murder of a gay 8th grader. More evidence how we as believers should be ministers of reconciliation and not carelessly use words like “Sodom” in our speech that can not only demean those who God lovces but also incite other sinners to hate enough even to commit murder.
Truth be told, many believers don’t feel bad when gays are persecuted and are ambivilent when they die.
March 29th, 2008 at 2:00 am
I noticed this post on CRN:
Face of Christianity Will Soon be Black, Says Scholar
How the heck can the fact that there is a huge global shift in the demograhic in Christianity cause the ‘Editor’ to say that ‘Words fail concernign this story’ - it might not be intentional but it sounds imperialistic, sexist and racist.
April 4th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Not surprised by the articles main topic that Ian posted above.
After all there are certain people in the western church who keep telling us that “the face of Christianity” is going to change becuase of whatever ministry is starting up and it all seems to be based on the the “word of the Lord” for today. So why not have the “Face of Christianity” change socially/nationally as well.
In the O.T. it says, “God never changes”
N.T. verse is. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever.
In Heb it says, “God doesn’t change as the shifting shadows.”
Hmmm….
April 5th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Thank God that I don’t need to be “nice”.
April 7th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
THE NAZI CARD, my friends, has finally been played. Did anyone doubt it would eventually be used. Unreal.
See The Mythical World of Richard Abanes
April 7th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Richard
What Tim Wirth has done is only to give perfect demonstration to Godwin’s Law. Perhaps he should stop slandering other Christians and do something productive…
April 7th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
At least Goebbels made a few good points, though. Let’s not throw the baby out with the…oh never mind. The Fatherland!!
April 7th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Ingrid compared the LCMS to the Soviets awhile back. While they aren’t quite as reviled they did manage to rack up a higher body count.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
At least you words are in red! Talk about hyperbole, I mean, Himmler OK, but Goebbels? Man, do some research! I can see the resemblence between Kay Warren and Eva Braun, though.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
THE NAZI CARD
Is that like the Old Maid? I’ll trade two Heidrichs for one Rommel. How about an Eichman for a Magda Goebbels? By the way, the tune for Deutschland über alles (Germany over all) is a Lutheran hymn!
April 7th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Rick — you absolutely kill me. ROFL.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Richard,
That man, Writh, is lying about you.
That article flaming you was just terrible.
What do you think? Aside from the obvious tinfoil hatting….
Joe C
April 7th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Hi All,
Please remember that this isn’t really a conversation forum. This is the place for submission ideas for articles here. If you’d like to have discussions feel free to do that on personal blogs or via email.
Have a great one!
April 10th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Did ya’ll read the article over at “hope in laodicea” where Ingrid actually has a pretty balanced article on modesty?
Interesting…maybe worth noting positively.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Today, Ingrid quizzed some poor church receptionist about the Reformation. Needless to say, she didn’t do very well.
April 10th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Well at least she’s giving people the benefit of a phone call before trashing them online now.
April 10th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Where is that dead horse beating that Chris L. posted when you need it?
April 11th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Anyone see this quote from Jim at Old Truth?
“I’ve mentioned before about the first Sunday I ever brought my family to visit Bill Hybels’ Willow Creek church, and there was an unmarried couple in front of us with their hands in each other’s back (jean) pockets. I’m not trying to be self-righteous nor am I denying that Jesus ate with tax collectors, but - this was church folks! I know nothing about this couple, but let’s suppose for a moment that they were living together.”
Let’s see, he knew they were unmarried but he knows nothing about them. What if they were living together? I mean, people, this was “church”. Of course this was not “church”, this was a gathering by the church with an invitation for unbelievers to attend.
I do believe the early believers ate together at “church” so Jesus eating with tax collectors may have carried over to “church”. Let us just accept this fact, many believers cannot stand unbelievers, especially in “church”. And Jim’s point was if they were living together, how would Willow Creek discipline them because they are so big. There must be another word for “huh?”.
April 11th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
http://www.founders.org/blog/2008/01/wsj-on-church-discipline.html
April 11th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
I guess you cannot link to OT from here. That link I provided goes to a wax museum.
April 12th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Correction - that quote was from a guy named Tom, but it was posted on Jim’s blog which is considered an endorsement.
April 12th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
SECOND CORRECTION - My friend itolyaso informed me that is was Jim, not Tom. My question is this:
If you go to a gathering of believers on a Sunday morning (the word “church” is a colloquial misuse) and two MEN are seated in front of you with their hands in each other’s jean pockets, what action would God have you take?
Should you:
1. Smack their hands away and give them one more chance.
2. Ask them if they are married.
3. Shout loudly that no effeminate will enter the kingdom
4. Move your seat
5. Ask the usher to apply some church discipline
6. Be disgusted and complain all day
7. Share it in love with your blog audience
8. Pray for them
9. Do all 1 thru 7
I know, I’m sorry for pulling the “spiritual card” but I couldn’t think of anything else.
April 13th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
ummmm…did ya’ll see the recent Camp article?
April 13th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
nc - yes. And I saw Camps expose on American Idol singing “Shout to the Lord” at the end and with Ben Stiller saying some words afterward that were bleeped out. Regardless of any pros or cons about them singing a Christian song (who really cares), I found this comment by Camp to be an especially nice touch if you are self righteous Phariscernment member:
“For Mars Hill Church members, this will seem like Sunday morning worship; for everyone else, it will seem like Saturday night at the bowling alley”
What a way to use American Idol as a way to make a public jab at Mars Hill Church. This reveals what I have believed for some time now, these people cannot look at anything or anybody without judging them through the myopic parameters of their own Phariscernment spectacles.
And in another absolutely humorous piece of irony Camp’s next post speaks very highly of Mike Corley (who I like) who treats Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill CHurch with respect. You can’t make this stuff up, folks.
BTW - Phariscerners - That is my new word for people who are self righetous and exhibit a bitter and biting type of condescending discernment and especially toward sinners. Sinners like those who sit in front of you in church with their hands in each other’s back pockets and are probably not married. (It’s like church porn!) They are Phariscerners.
April 14th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
http://tallskinnykiwi.typepad.com/tallskinnykiwi/2008/04/proper-confiden.html
FANTASTIC post by Andrew Jones…
It shows, in his gentle way, the lies of Johnny Mac Arty’s “truth war”.
April 14th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Where in the linked post does he quote John MacArthur? It appears that nine out of eleven paragraphs of the post are devoted to quotes from Lesslie Newbigin’s book.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
I said in a “gentle way”. The post is clearly showing language and intent of those who are being accused of denying the clarity of scripture.
Doesn’t need to be named, but who else is hawking a book with a thesis of that very accusation?
“gentle way”, that’s Andrew’s style.
And it has direct bearing on these issues.
I think it’s a great, pro-active post that offers some other ideas without the unneccesary ranting.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Funny. I figured the phrase “It shows…” meant “actually quote…”
NO ONE else is “hawking a book with a thesis of that very accusation?” I’m not saying they are, just wondering how you know that no one else is.
April 14th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Keith,
Yes you are right, John MacArthur and those that follow him are writing books that mischaracterize “certainty” as we in the emerging church see it.
Can you accept the fact that John is wrong on something? I mean So far he is wrong about me on about every point… and I can point to others like me he is wrong about… but we are all cast into the same overgeneralized world of JM… He has one crayon and colors everyone the same with it without a care that he may harm or be lying about any of us.
Do you think it is right to lie about someone? If so how can you support JM in his lies against people like me and others? How can you defend one that promotes truth as he sees it by lying about others?
Just think about that for a moment please.
iggy
April 14th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
So…the Truth War book wasn’t promoted as a direct response to the idea that people are teaching God/truth can’t be understood?
The post by Andrew reveals what really has been said, etc.
No matter what people say, Keith, the EC is primarily about missiology and ecclesiology. Just because Bri-boy McLaren has shared what has always been “his personal theology” in a way that makes a splash doesn’t mean that the substance of the EC is really about those other things.
That’s what drew me to it.
Not because I believe “young pups” have found a better way, but because I needed relationships with people who were struggling in churches to share the gospel–really share it–rather than pay lipservice to it while running a spiritualized, self-righteous country club called a “church”.
I’m just sharing honestly, so you can see why some of us get our hackles up when people characterize many of us with language that is just incomprehensible to me…doesn’t represent my views…or my experience of the views of others within a wide ranging relational network of friends called Emergent Village.
I think it’s important for people to read the real sources of information that have shaped the Emerging Church.
While Bri-Mac may “popularize” it or “de-popularize” it for some…he’s not the definitive figure for most of us. I’ve read 2 of his books…and along with Len Sweet’s stuff haven’t really found anything that interests me there.
The EC, and Emergent Village, is not a group of sycophants for the man, we’re just trying to do church in our zip codes as faithfully as we can.
On Bri-Mac: His own church CRC wouldn’t strike people as radical. It feels like a typical, suburban, evangelical community that shares the gospel in pretty typical ways.
Reasoned, clear, specific rebuttals of specific people is great. But Johnny Mac Arty Mac -n- Cheese has a real rep. for armchair flame throwing. And that’s why he deserves the kind of bristling responses he gets. Frankly.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Iggy:</strong>”Can you accept the fact that John is wrong on something?” Absolutely! He’s wrong: all Calvinists shouldn’t be dispensationalists. I’m not–dispy–that is. I don’t agree with him on that one. See there, you didn’t think I could do it, did you? As far as the “truth war,” I think he’s dead on.
===
nc:“the Truth War book wasn’t promoted as a direct response to the idea that people are teaching God/truth can’t be understood? I don’t recall the book/MacArthur saying Truth couldn’t be understood…I believe the point was that Truth wasn’t being preached/taught by the Emerging Church. I think the EC understands it, they just don’t like it so they massage it–make it more palatable or downplay it all together under the guise of “being more missional or relevant.
“…you can see why some of us get our hackles up when people characterize many of us with language that is just incomprehensible to me…doesn’t represent my views…or my experience… Really? If I had said the same thing, I imagine you (and others here) would say I’m close-minded, or a MacArthur worshipper, etc. I guess it sounds much more like Jesus when you say it.
“…Johnny Mac Arty Mac -n- Cheese…” Good grief. How old ARE you? Is that really necessary?
April 14th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Sorry about the “bold” tag. (previous post)
April 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Keith,
Then you agree that by John MacArthur’s judgment I am not saved.
Thanks!
iggy
April 14th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
“Then you agree that by John MacArthur’s judgment I am not saved.”
The jury is still out!!
April 14th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Kieth,
You also agree that truth is so fragile and that God needs us to protect Him and His truth…
Again, that is so sad that you reduce God to needing mere men to “protect” truth.
Truth is what protects us for Truth is the Person of Jesus.
But, JM is right on… of course so the bible is wrong.
iggy
April 14th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
OK I realized two things… one I forgot to change the name thingy and two this is the submissions area and we are not supposed to comment here so I apologize.
I would love to continue though to discuss this Kieth… email me is you want… or don’t if you don’t want.
Be blessed,
iggy
April 14th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
Iggy: I read the book (Truth War)…never saw your name mentioned. Not even once. Email is on the way.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Talk about a real misunderstanding:
I never said J-Mac was teaching “Truth couldn’t be understood”. I said his book was written and marketed as a direct response to people HE CLAIMED WERE TEACHING “truth couldn’t be understood”. The post by Andrew demonstrates the influence of the REAL position that is being mischaracterized by J-MAC as teaching something that is NOT being propounded if understood in light of Newbiggin.
good grief.
RE: Mac-N-Cheese….it’s just some levity…good grief, again.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:09 am
Btw, I don’t think you’re close minded.
the Mac-worship…hmmm….well….
Ha! Just kidding..
April 15th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Hireling pastors who are so lazy, dishonest and biblically illiterate that they have to rip off sermons from Internet sites and download movie clips to keep their goats entertained…
LOOOOOVE that quote from Ingrid’s latest squawk.
April 15th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Hey Guys,
The submissions page isn’t really the place for comment discussion
April 16th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
What the &$%£* is wrong with Rapture Ready i’m starting to get mad!!!
I’m flipping fed up of Rapture Ready posting about disabled people,with statements from the stone age!!!!
When two ladies born with the down syndrome condition (correct term in the UK) were involved in the bombing in a Iraq market, RR had post saying mannn now their using retards..
Then today the young baby girl in India is now being posted under a thread called “the 2-Faced Baby is Hailed As an Indian Goddess”..
Then someone post “arn’t most of these “freak” births in India” or quote ” WOAH haha cool! does it.. like… is it like 2 people? lol ”
Ive worked for nearly 25 years on and off in all areas of care and these people are driving me %$%£^ madddddddddddd
grrrrrrrrrrrr sorry just ranting haven’t checked my spelling
April 16th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
oops sorry Joe i thought a better writer might see this, and run with the ball
April 16th, 2008 at 6:58 pm
link http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=42110
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Thought this was interesting. Don’t know what to make of it. Mclaren says some pretty shady things in this one…
I’m trying to be the graceful reader too… Maybe I don’t have the whole story or all of his thoughts. Anyways, worth a look. Do we think what he’s saying is too far off from the Bible?
Joe
April 28th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Are you telling me that no one is posting about the new treasure trove of quotes from the “Rev.” Wright? Today he reiterated his belief that the American government might have invented AIDs to commit geneocide against the black man. Come on, somebody, this man a political gift from hell.
So Hannah Montana deserves more critical ink than this guy?
April 28th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
You guys really ought to write a post about Doug Pagitt at the seeds of compassion event. You’l notice that he was roundly criticized prior to the event, but then all he did was talk about jesus while he was there. Admitedly, he doesn’t ’share the gospel’, but he does speak about Jesus every time he speaks. Doesn’t he deserve props from someone?
The clips are on his blog - dougpagitt.com
April 29th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
If anyone would like to tell me how to make/edit a hyperlink in this comment box, I would be grateful.
darrensapp@charter.net
April 29th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Hi Darren, I E-mailed a run through for you. Basically you can click the “>>” button above the comments box and use the external link button like you would for a quote or italics.
A suggestion for making this easier - what about a phpbb style forum for the comments instead? The new articles could be linked to the new thread with rights set to the mods only create in that forum.
May 1st, 2008 at 3:15 am
Please pray.
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:34 am
Hey an ‘ODM’ (me) noticed that Doug Pagitt DID mention Jesus at the seeds of compassion!
I’d love to see your comments.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:42 am
Ok, given your past history and the obvious shortness of the bit you quoted, as well as the failure to supply what he was responding to I don’t trust the basis on which your analysis is built, especially considering that analysis is in complete agreement with everything you’ve written and everything those who feed your traffic agree with.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 am
A NEW series on “Imagination” from a biblical perspective is beginning today on ODM website: http://obadiah1317.wordpress.com/
It might be worth watching, given our recent conversations about Richard Foster, OBE, and imagination.
May 3rd, 2008 at 10:32 am
A fairly new ODM named DANIEL CHEW that I had not seen before. I just went a few rounds with him after he attacked me on his ODM website titled: “Daniel’s Place - (Reformata et semper reformanda).” http://puritanreformed.blogspot.com/
You know with a name like that, there is bound to be all kinds of ODM nuggets. He even has a self-published book (a vanity press) out on Rick Warren titled “Driven Away By Purpose.”
Our interaction is documented and discussed here in my latest blog entry: http://richardabanes.wordpress.com/
May 8th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Have you seen the new Evangelical Manifesto:
http://www.anevangelicalmanifesto.com/index.php
?
May 10th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
I have posted in the past on Steve Camps site, and even changed my mind on some things through is replies to me….But his recent post about John Pipers son’s blog came out of the blue seems way harsh
May 10th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
oops
http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2008/05/christian-fathers-and-young-men-let-no.html
May 10th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
I like when ODMs eat their own, it really demonstrates that what they have to say is so narrow that guys like Piper can’t fit in.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Borderline schadenfreude.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Maybe. But its more of an obvious example of what we already knew.
May 10th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
It could be an example of a shark feeding frenzy where sometimes the sharks bite each other.
May 12th, 2008 at 10:48 am
I keep checking back over at Slice to see if Ingrid has issued her mea culpa regarding the Hilary Griffith Peele comments (I’m not holding my breath). In the meantime, she’s managed to take a shot at Franklin Graham, who apparently doesn’t get any points for praying in Jesus’ name at George W. Bush’s 2001 inauguration. She also spreads the love to Kay Warren for hanging out with “hard core” emergents.
Exit question: Are there any “soft core” emergents and, if so, who are they?
Truly this woman has no shame.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Ray - you are correct. To label a man of God as a “shill for the communist party” is both unscriptural for a women as well as a man because it is a personal hyperbole. Franklin Graham is an outspoken witness for Christ being criticzed for preaching the gospel at the Columbine memorial.
Mrs. Schlueter is a Christian woman who should be corrected by someone in authority in her circle. That may be the problem.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:50 am
OK, in the latest MacArthur atricle linked to by CRN we find this amazing statement:
“Some of them flatly deny that God in any sense loves those whom He has not chosen for salvation.”
MacArthur insists that Goes loves those who He hasn’t offered salvation. Is it emotional love without any action? It must be different love than the elect. His theology is desiring to have you cake and eat it too. God loves everyone but only chooses to save a very, very, very, very, very, very few. Wow, what love!
I have three children, if they are ever caught in a house fire I’ll offer a ladder to one.
May 14th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
OH MY GOODNESS - Warren Smith together now with CONSTANCE CUMBEY!!!!! Everyone just pack up your bags and run, run, run.
http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/
May 15th, 2008 at 12:26 am
What do you make of a person who debates a parody of himself?!
May 16th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Another article might be appropriate in response to what has JUSt transpired regarding the special “critics” session that Rick Warren was hoping to hold with his most vocal critics -
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=741
INGRID’S RESPONSE
The results are in - out of the many critics invited (I have the list) - not a SINGLE person accepted except for Chris Rosebrough of Extremetheology blog.
So, the critics have shown their true motives - not reconciliation, not face-to-face correction, not personal confrontation, but attacks from behind the safety of computer screens, using digital assaults that can reach out far and wide, but without any accountability - without the courage to actually speak with someone in person.
As for Chris Rosebrough, the guy has insulted me, angered me, frustrated me, and failed in my book when it comes to apologetics and dealing with Rick Warren — BUT, at least he had the courage to take that invitation and would have been there.
Sadly, because no one responded, the golden opportunity has been canceled.
RAbanes
May 16th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
Richard - my serious health problems forbid me to travel. Therefore I extend to Rick Warren an invitation to Florida and stay at my house for one night for a face to face meeting. If he refuses, I will assume he doesn’t have the courage to come face to face.
Your analogy is fraught with frustration and not legitimate.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Rick,
Please remember this thread is for suggestions, not commentary on suggestions. If you have a problem with Richard’s submission suggestion you can always feel free to email him personally, or write about it on your own blog.
Thanks.
May 16th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
I submit a post that shows that a refusal or inability to meet with someone face to face does not automatically suggest cowardice or any hidden “true motives”. In that same post I submit that the self righteous tone in the reply to a gracious invitation is a much better indication of a person’s motives.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
Rick,
LoL. Clearly, I am not referring to isolated people here or there who have reasons. But, seriously, c’mon, Rick, an entire LIST of people ALL just happen to refuse? My personal opinion is that Ingrid made their views rather clear. I have seen the list. ALL of them refused? Rickster, c’mon, buddy.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
That narrowed view has merit and should be included in the post.
May 16th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Ok, seriously guys, this is not the forum for back and forth. Write your own posts. I’m not just picking on you two, I remind everyone who forgets this. Call it my personal pet peeve. Thanks
May 17th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Mr Abanes Said:
“So, the critics have shown their true motives - not reconciliation, not face-to-face correction, not personal confrontation, but attacks from behind the safety of computer screens, using digital assaults that can reach out far and wide, but without any accountability - without the courage to actually speak with someone in person.”
I say:
What a vastly over the top self-righteous statement! Who do you think you are Mr. Abanes? NO ONE is accountable to Rick Warren!
Your words smack of the Dark History of the Apostate and idolotrous Roman Catholic Inquisition! Whats next Mr Abanes, are you going to start putting people on the “rack” for speaking the Truth?
You are a very blind and sad man Mr Abanes! You still cannot see that Truth is not arrived at by what YOU call “reconciliation”!
Rick Warren has already showed over the years what he is about! AND YOU IGNORE IT!
NO Purpose (no pun intended) would be served for those whom you call Mr Warren’s critics to come to Saddleback and “reconcile” with Rick Warren!
The only way in which Rick Warren and yourself can reconcile yourselves is to repent of the new age apostate soup you peddle!
Your kind of reconciliation is a synonym for compromise! Your kind of reconciliation means that what is going on is just a difference of personal opinion among what you like to call “the Bretheren”! BUT it is nothing more than a form of apostate synthesis! Rick Warren IS NOT PART OF THE BRETHEREN: i.e those who hold to a Biblical Faith!
You want Rick Warren to be able to continue to dismantle the fundamentals of the Christian Faith, without opposition! You want to silence “the resisters”! Those who Publish the Biblical Truth!
Reconciliation? HA! MR Abanes if you were an honest man you would always put your New Age Post Modern Mis-definition in front of it to WARN people what you mean when you use it!
My reconciliation will come with Rick Warren, with open arms and a welcome back into the “Bretheren” WHEN he repents publically of what he ihas done and s doing to dismantle the Christian Faith!
May 17th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Blah, blah, blah… you might try dropping slander first.
Regardless - this page is not for discussion (as Joe has pointed out multiple times) - it is a place to suggest articles for examination for future posts…
May 17th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Wow.
May 17th, 2008 at 8:57 am
I love the guys who think the rules don’t apply to them.
May 17th, 2008 at 10:43 am
I was just feeling left out…
May 20th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Joe - This is a genuine submission.
http://www.extremetheology.com/2008/05/purpose-driven.html
Rick Warren offers and provides full paid trips to his conference to his critics. Then Jim Bulbitz infers Warren’s kindness is just another strategy. Chris agrees with his comment. So let me get this straight, when you show kindness to your enemies (critics) you aren’t doing what Jesus and Paul suggested, you are strategizing.
I am completely convinced that Warren’s motives were sincere. Sometimes you cannot even be a Christian among Christians who strongly disagree with you. And of course Jim adds this self righteous observation,
“Surely he’s not naive enough to imagine that he’s going to change the minds of people like you”
People like you who are God’s gift to doctrinal mankind. As Captain Jack Sparrow might say, “But why is the humility gone?” (rum=humility)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Paul Walker denies “Christ in you”?
I guess The Apostle Paul lied also…
Col 1: 27. To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Ephesians 2: 22. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
Ephesians 3:16. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17. so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith…
And Peter was wrong also:
1 Peter 1: 10. Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, 11. trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
Thank God we have the ODM’s to set our theology on the right path!
iggy
May 21st, 2008 at 2:48 pm
This one would be amusing of it were not so sad:
IRREFUTABLE LOGICAL PROOF THAT WARREN IS AN APOSTATE HERETIC
Put together by this colorful chap: DANIEL CHEW (an apparent devotee of the infamous Robert Morey).
R. Abanes
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
You guys should post about how CRN , SOL and Lighthouse Trails are all reveling in Deepak Chopra’s “praising” of the Evangelical Manifesto, but when you read his “praises” you find him only agreeing with those basic genral things (shedding intolerance and attack, working together, de-politicizing the Gospel more etc.) but taking great offense at the stands they make for the Gospel in their essential doctorine statements.
It’s another prime example where what they link to contradicts their original article. They want to make it sound like Deepak Chopra is a fan of this manifesto (”he likes what he sees” SOL) when what you read is he is a fan of the same things any sane human being is a fan of (hate is bad, working together is good, let’s save the environment etc.) but against them for all the strong stands they take for the Gospel
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm
I. Todyaso is offended!
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=799
The Unification Church is a cult led by Sun Yung Moon.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:40 pm
http://itodyaso.wordpress.com/2008/05/23/ingrids-hidden-contemplative-agenda/
May 26th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Interested in knowing if you all think that ODM’s (are anyone else) should be speaking out against Todd Bentley. Why or why not? “It” (whatever “it” is) has come to a church near me, through a couple of highschool kids who got “it” at Lakeland; I recently heard a couple of people whom I slightly know talking favorably about what is going on. I watched some videos from the church near me. What disturbed me as much as anything was a couple of kids’ voices picked up on the video saying “I’m afraid.”
May 26th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Amy - Just some cursory research seems to show that this guy is deeply into the health & wealth gospel (which I believe is more of a danger to Christianity than anything dreamed up within the E/ECM).
He also has a rap sheet with child molestation on it, which, while it can be forgiven, really calls into question directing an organization in a highly unaccountable position. It’s not safe for him or for others.
Also, while I do not discount the possibility of charismatic gifts, it seems that his trade, part and parcel, is dependent on them. Were it me, I wouldn’t let my kids get involved in this…
May 26th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Would you mind a reference for this? I might talk to one of the people whom I heard favorably talking about the “it” that came from Lakeland to this area. I saw (on the video of the church near me) many people my kids ages and am fairly certain there are other people I know going to this. (It started at a Christian school connected with the church.) While many people will (amazingly) defend “gifts” including writhing on the floor and barking, there are people who might listen to a warning concerning Bentley’s angel visions but especially bonafide child molestation charges.
By your answer I take it that you do feel like it is reasonable for Christians including ODM’s to warn the body of Christ about such men and their teachings?
I was amazed when I was overseas at how these types of manifestations travel around the world. And amazed at how many people believe they are genuine works of Christ.
May 26th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Although I completely dismiss his ministry as unbiblical, the child molestation reference was unnecessary since occured when he was 13 or 14 and involved a 7 year old boy. He served 1 1/2 years in a juvenile facility, and that was supposed to be expunged from his record.
He then was saved at age 17 and has no accusations against him since of a similar nature.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
Miley Cyrus hurt and wants to quit over photo scandal
http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/story/0,26278,23771362-10388,00.html
May 28th, 2008 at 6:26 am
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5089
I do not ascribe to Bentley’s theology, but how much clearer can an invitation be given? Repentance is a change of mind and is inherent in the act of saving faith. I did not repent to get saved, I believed and in that was metanoia, a change of mind.
I find the pride in one’s own gospel presentation to be repugnant. Paul Washer has become the Apostle Paul in some circles. Celebrity Christianity is pervasive.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:35 am
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5098
Another Paul Washer inspired quote - complete with picture! Consider this - he laments that “salvation does not come by all these silly little mechanisms we’ve developed”. But check out the first sentence. I see two of those sill mechanisms, church membership and denominations, both he supports.
But of course the kicker is that he knows there are many lost members (names please?) and he also knows how much power it took to say “Let there be light” and he knows that AT LEAST that much power is involved with salvation. How do we measure God’s power - watts? So Washer can make sweeping and subjective statements about God and His power, and that is met with adulation and affirmation.
Why is his subjectivity any more inspired than mine? Don’t worry, I know the answer. I’m still working on point 1!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:33 pm
Some more from the new Calvinist Bible:
http://blog.thewebsiteguy.com.au/?p=236
June 1st, 2008 at 5:42 pm
We have a VERY interesting spin now taking place in the ODM community based on Warren’s recent interactions with Bob Dewaay and Chris Rosebrough.
The ODMs are now faced with confirmation from reliable sources that THEOLOGICALLY/DOCTRINALLY, Rick Warren adheres to biblical Christianity. So, what does this mean? It means that even though Warren professes sound theology/doctrine, and even preaches it — it makes no difference. Because by his actions he actually shows otherwise!!!
Tim Wirth, who believes I am both a Nazi and a “monster (among other tihngs), has now stated the following about Rick Warren:
“Look again at verse 16 ‘They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.’ I believe this speaks to Rick Warren. No matter what Rick agrees on as far as doctrine goes this does not come out through his methods, ministry, or preaching.”
“Has Rick ever preach soundly? Yes I would say on ocassion he has. But in Rick wanting to be all things to all men he only plays to the crowd. If Rick really believed in the doctrine he supposably agrees with it would come out unashamed in Ricks preaching and methods of doing church. Rick would not be afraid of losing his popularity or wealth but indeed preach the gospel without compromise”
And then, we have the emerging CONSPIRACY THEORY. In reference to Warren actually continuing to preach the Gospel, Wirth theorizes: “Will Rick do this? I do believe from observing Warren for many years that he will probably (for a time) do this. We will have to wait and see. But this may be done so Richard Abanes can come out and say look Rick does preach sound doctrine here and here.”
In other words, there is NO WAY Warren can be accepted as a legitimate Christian preacher — no way at all. Actually, sorry, my bad, back up, yes there is ONE way that Wirth will accept Rick as a sincere, Christ-loving Bible-centered preacher of God’s Word and the Gospel.
Are you ready?
Here it is: “And it will first need to start with Rick Warren repenting of being a false preacher, stepping down as pastor and getting some council from biblical sound pastors and teachers. That needs to happen first before I will believe anything Rick Warren has to say no matter how good it may sound in the moment.”
See Wirth’s newest article titled: “Titus 1:10-16″
http://nogoofyzone.wordpress.com/
This is certainly WIRTH a look and possible story.
R Abanes
June 4th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
You really have to take a look at this one from our friend, Daniel Chew - I have no words:
http://puritanreformed.blogspot.com/
RAbanes
June 4th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
New dark insights into the hidden contemplative world of Ingrid have come up in the comments!
June 8th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
I believe this commentary by John MacArthur contains many solid principles of Bible interpretation. In it he suggests the charismatics hold up their doctrine to the plumbline of Scripture. Good advice for all of us.
However he fails to mention that one of the most egregious and subjective teachings that he himself teaches with authority and certainty is that many of the gifts of the Holy Spirit were removed by God at some unspecific time after the Scriptures were given. If there ever was a flimsy, subjective, and Scripturally tortured doctrine it is that one. So some of his plumbline advise he should take to heart himself.
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5159
June 10th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
anyone going to comment on this story
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=66704
June 10th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Challies has committed the ultimate sin and quoted Rick Warren favourably - watch the firestorm develop!
June 11th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDDc5RB6FQ
June 14th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
New Christian RPG: “Faith and Relevence“. Parody Post.
June 16th, 2008 at 10:17 am
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/06/calmianism-j-ust-when-i-though-i.html
June 16th, 2008 at 11:33 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sto2Rvui11k
June 19th, 2008 at 10:52 am
I have posted an official OPEN LETTER response to those who are now seeking to deliberately impugn my character, and ruin my reputation as a Christian apologist simply because I have refused to join them in condemning Rick Warren. Included is my assessment of ODMs and the overall problem with them.
See Slanderers, Accusers, and Divisive Sinners
Also following is a comment already by an ODM that PERFECTLY illustrates exactly what I state in the article.
R. Abanes
June 19th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=50040
June 20th, 2008 at 11:48 am
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5215
How do you rely on what seems to be a nominal Christian’s review of an unbeliever’s conspiratorial book that makes sweeping claims of an underground, nazi-like group that runs the National Prayer breakfast in hopes of a national coup?
And of course Rick Warren is the metaphorical Hitler. But because it attacks Warren, it makes the ODM post rounds. Calling Rod Serling.
June 20th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
so, rick you are saying that ODM’s arent really saved
what about the folks at:
http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/index.php
and:
http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/bb/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=79525f48043dee005ffae912a8443519
are they nominal christians too,
since they arent cult like followers of Warren’s
June 20th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
J - this is not a discussion forum - it’s a place for submission suggestions for the authors of the site to write-up…
Also, there’s no need for hyperbolic name-calling (cult-like followers…)
June 20th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
The Noose Tightens?
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=910
Noose> What noose? And can someone explain to me where in the Scriptures, you know Sola Scriptura, is this war taught:
(That was from the article referenced. Once and for all, where does God’s Word call us to a culture war?
June 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I have a article submission:
http://rapturealert.com/2008/062008willangelina.asp
this is one worth commenting on. Just read it and you will see why.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:56 pm
I would also like to see a thread created for the article J submitted. I think there are quite a number of issues that can be discussed out of this article. Perhaps you can use Rick Frueh’s article, The Anxiety Driven Church, as a counter point?
June 21st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
I stumbled onto this blog, d-C (de-conversion, resources for skeptical de-converting or former Christians), and in specific this article. How do we reach out to these people?
June 21st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
eugene, that looks like a good article.
I think while talking about the article mentioned,
I would like to see folks take on the infamous Hollywood Prayer Network and what you all think of them
June 21st, 2008 at 3:17 pm
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vJ6Bh2wNw5k
What is a miracle of God? (youtube video)
June 21st, 2008 at 6:15 pm
New post!
June 21st, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Please remember this thread is for suggestions not discussion.
Thanks!
June 22nd, 2008 at 2:52 pm
this is from Ray Comfort’s ministry and worth commenting on:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTAPHUX9rnc
John Travolta takes million dollars TRACT from fan in PUBLIC.
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:11 am
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/06/message-charles-finney-would-have-loved.html
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:11 am
John W. Robbins wrote an interesting article that when I read it I had to laugh as much of what i have found true of Macarthur’s “Gospel” is stated by Dr. Robbins.
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:19 am
Lighthouse Trails Research just attacked — of all people — Greg Laurie. Yes, I said Greg Laurie!
Has Laurie denied the Gospel? Has Laurie embraced another Jesus? Has he been caught with his secretary? Has he diverted church funds into his pocket? No. None of these things.
Greg Laurie has committed the crime of crime; the sin if sins — he, uhm, he disagrees with the ODM position on Rick Warren being a heretic of the worst order. That’s it. And this has become the standard of measure by which the ODMs now judge a person’s salvation and/or walk with Jesus and/or commitment to the Bible.
They’ve given Greg Laurie the dreaded and heretical “emerging” label and called him, for all intents and purposes, a promoter of New Age contemplative teachings.
___________BEGIN QUOTE
SEE: c=1″ rel=”nofollow”>Greg Laurie Connects Purpose Driven to a Move of God - Gives Financial Support
“And now this brings us to the unpleasant task of reporting that Greg Laurie is giving a strong promotion of Rick Warren and Bill Hybels, which means he is indirectly promoting contemplative and emerging (which we will explain later in this article), and directly promoting Purpose Driven. And unfortunately, there is a twist to this story. . . .
Because Laurie has publicly connected Purpose Driven to a move of God and calls Willow Creek’s conferences “significant,” Lighthouse Trails has no choice but to issue this warning to the body of Christ. . . .
Without a doubt, Laurie supports Purpose Driven. . . . This report will obviously be disheartening to many Calvary Chapel pastors and church goers who have believed that their movement was going to press forward into the future without these un-biblical movements. Laurie’s current promotion and financial backing of Rick Warren will cause many to wonder just which direction the Calvary Chapel movement will really end up going. . . .
It is our prayer that Greg Laurie will remove his financial backing from Rick Warren’s New York conference and send out a new letter denouncing what he previously suggested is a move of God. This coming November Greg Laurie will present “Preach the Word, a conference for Pastors and Leaders. Those joining him will include Alistair Begg, Chuck Smith, and John MacArthur. Perhaps these three men can help Greg Laurie remember the simple and true faith he found so many years ago.”
_________END QUOTE
Most interesting, of course, is the last sentence: “help Greg Laurie remember the simple and true faith he found so many years ago.” This remark implies not-so-subtly that Laurie is now preaching/teaching and believe a faith that is not the “true faith.”
The Dombrowskis have just proven the point I’ve been trying to make for years: “No one is safe — The witch hunt is one.”
R. Abanes
June 23rd, 2008 at 9:20 am
OOops. Sorry. Here it is:
Greg Laurie Connects Purpose Driven to a Move of God - Gives Financial Support
June 23rd, 2008 at 10:14 am
Richard, they also mention this at:
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=50394
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:51 am
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=919
June 24th, 2008 at 10:18 am
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/24/us/24religion.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
2 timothy 4:3-4 and john 14:6
June 24th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
NEWS ALERT -
Now the godly pastors who post messages at Phoenix Preacher are being attacked byTim Wirth as deceived Calvary Chapel pastors who are disgruntled!!! Moreover, Calvary Chapel pastors on PP have all been placed by Tim Wirth under the condemnation of “The Great Falling Away is mentioned in 2 Thess 2:3-12″
The witch hunt net is spreading. It has now been expanded to include not only Greg Laurie, but ANY CC pastors who stand with an opposing opinion to the views expressed on Rick Warren by Online Discernment Ministries. Gentlemen, an even greater division of the Body of Christ has now begun.
Thanks to these so-called “watchmen”/”discerners,” I predict that there will now be sheep leaving various Calvary Chapels as a result of the misinformation/accusations beginning to be distributed by the “discerners.”
The fruit of the “watchmen” has now come to the doorstep of CC. I saw this coming long ago and sounded the alarm bell. I wish you all the best in handling the disruption, pain, confusion, and division it is going to begin causing in your flocks.
peace,
Richard Abanes
June 24th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
http://phoenixpreacher.com/cms/?p=3094
The Witch Hunt Continues… (article)
June 24th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
http://rapturealert.blogspot.com/2008/06/unprecedented-lightning-strikes-bring.html
Unprecedented Lightning Strikes Bring Fires????
June 24th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080624/ap_on_el_pr/rel_dobson_obama
Can there be anything more absurd than saying Obama “distorts” the Bible? There is nothing more anti-thetical to the gospel than the “Moral Wars”. No wonder the devil has been able to present us as a caricature rather than grace gifted followers of the Savior of the world who wish to share Him.
June 26th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=932
June 27th, 2008 at 6:03 am
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=940
This wasn’t about “worship”, this was about evangelism. The pastor said over 100 people made professions of faith which was not mentioned in the article. SOL just posted a sermon by Paul Washer that gave a dramatic presentation of the Great White Throne Judgment and Washer took many extra-Biblical melodramatic narratives, all in the name of evangelism.
Why is verbal sensationalism OK but not visual? I have my thoughts…
June 27th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=943
Bottom feeding.
June 27th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
SOL lying bout Brian McLaren
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=944
And here is the truth
http://www.brianmclaren.net/archives/blog/these-things-happen.html
June 27th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I dont want to go get into politics, but Sol has half truth in what she writes.
Obama for president I dont think so.
July 1st, 2008 at 7:36 am
Chris L. - why can Ray Comfort participate in a conference of extreme health and wealthers without any criticism from thoe who would verbally murder Rob Bell if he was there? Just google some of the speakers, they are hyper-prosperity and even heretical (Jesse Duplanitis claims to have gond to heaven and walked around!)
http://www.inspiringexcellence.org/IE08Speakers.htm
July 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pm
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=2013
July 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_kODETmro8
July 1st, 2008 at 9:29 pm
cross-posted in most recent thread:
THE TRUTH ABOUT KEN SILVA’S
CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN IN
COMPARATIVE RELIGION/APOLOGETICS
FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS.
To All,
I wanted to give Ken a chance to speak the truth, repent of lying, and go forward. But he has refused to do so. Now, it’s time to tell the truth — sadly, it will be me telling the truth about Ken.
On his website, Ken Silva claims (as I posted above in July 1st, 2008 at 9:53 am): “Erica, I’m afraid this is a very ignorant thing to say to a pastor-teacher who has been specifically involved in Comparative Religion and apologetics for over 20 years” (Ken Silva, AN MHBC MEMBER DEFENDS ROB BELL *UPDATE*)
So we here have pastor-teacher Ken Silva being in “Comparative Religion and apologetics for over 20 years.” Sounds impressive, but as I also mentioned in this same post above, it “also sounds a little odd to me because I’ve been in apologetics since 1989, the year I began working at the Christian Research Institute — and I never even heard your name until you got your little website a few years ago.”
Well, here is the truth from Ken Silva’s own lips — the truth that he unfortuantely uttered on live, on national radio, apparently not thinking that anyone would be paying attention to him. And THAT is one of the problem with lies — they eventually catch up to you.
Ken explained on the Mike Corley program EXACTLY how, and more importantly WHEN, he got into apologetics/discernment. And it was a scant few years ago. He stated to Mike Corley:
According to WHOIS at http://www.internic.net, the website apprising.org was created “On:23-Aug-2005 00:39:37″ and registered to:
Registrant Name:Ken Silva
Registrant Organization:Apprising Ministries
Registrant Street1:P.O. Box 340
So, per Ken’s own words, his involvement in discernment/apologetics — what “GOT ME INTO THIS” started just 1 month prior to the above date that the website was created — i.e., c. July, 2005. And before that, as he also stated (although the sentence is broken, the meaning is clear), he “had no interest WHATEVER [in discernment/apologetics].”
This explains to me why I never heard of Ken before 2005 in ANY apologetic circles, or among ANY of the people in the counter-cult ministry community, which I have indeed been in since 1989.
Pastor-Teacher Silva — repent. Sorry, I gave you a chance.
R. Abanes
July 1st, 2008 at 9:41 pm
hahaha handbags at 10 paces sheesh
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I have had 2 very frustrating days dealing with an ODM site on worship and music. The experience has brought many words to my mind, but OBFUSCATE is one of the few I can use in public! My hat is off to you, to try and reason with these people day in and day out. The arrogance of their demeanor is mind boggling. There is no sense of logic to the argument. I am going to go bury my frustrations in a chocolate milk shake.
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:33 pm
A Young Girl Who Once Walked With Christ is Struggling.
LET’S EXPOSE HER TO THE WORLD.
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/07/young-girl-who-once-walked-with-christ.html
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:41 am
Wow, Rick, you got your own article!
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:56 am
Here is a gem:
They sure can dish it out relentlessly, but they cannot take it. I hope many go to the link to FJL she provided. I don’t have a counter but it might get me to double digits!
I stand by my words, and people who publish the sins of others are bottom feeders, regardless how they proffer themselves as protecors of society.
PS - I cannot remember criticizing her hair or looks.
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 am
Friends,
I hope this is the right place to publish this. It’s going at my own blog later, but I’d like you to hear what I just read:
Any guesses on the author? Wow, the author is so very right. I must repent yet again. I told Chris L in a private communique last evening how I have learned this lesson this week. It is amazing how uncomplicated life becomes when the focus is shifted off of the self and my needs and onto another and his or her needs. God be blessed!
jerry
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:41 am
Who might “they” be Rick?
July 3rd, 2008 at 11:12 am
Please join me in this.
July 4th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Is this the face of Ken Silva?
July 4th, 2008 at 10:51 am
I have no issue with this, but it seems the ODM’s should if they have issue with Doug Pagitt and Ravi Zacharias.
July 4th, 2008 at 10:59 am
These are the type of efforts I could support to keep people alive so we can get the gospel to them.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/vp=25501523�
July 4th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
I really could not believe the bad info Ken Silva spews out about Rob Bell in this article: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2008/07/when_rob_bell_t.html
He completely misrepresents Bell. Since he does not allow comments on his site I have started a thread about it on my blog. Ken, if you care to explain how you twist Bell’s meaning you are welcome to pipe in. You can catch it here: http://chadholtz.wordpress.com/2008/07/04/when-rob-bell-writes-people-forget-how-to-read/
July 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
A Watchman Exposes the Watchman!!!
LIGHTHOUSE TRAILS EXPOSED
FOR PROMOTING MYSTIC NEW AGER
JAMES SUNDQUIST!!!
You all have GOT to see this one from what looks to be another INDEPENDENT DISCERNER (SEE WEBSITE). Round and round and round it goes, where it stops nobody knows.
Now, we have Lighthouse Trails, along with one of their poster boys, James Sundquist (author of the HORRIFICALLY flawed and radically sensational “Who’s Driving the Purpose Driven Church?”), being labeled “New Age.” And Lighthouse Trails, specifically, is being accused of promoting the mysticism and pagan-like God-in-nature views of James Sundquist. ROFL! Here is a highlight from this website!
Under this brief article are links to the following documents, one of which is captioned: “”Lighthouse Trails (Fully Aware) Promotes Nature Mystic James Sundquist.” The links include: “Lighthouse Trails (Fully Aware) Promotes Nature Mystic James Sundquist” and “Lured In: Read “Christendom: Demonic & Divine” For Story.”
And then, we have this second little brief article titled “Christendom: Demonic and the Divine–James Sundquist Expose: A STORY OF INFILTRATION.” It reads:
This in-brief piece links the following: 1) A STORY OF INFILTRATION: Christendom: Demonic & Divine Cephas, Sundquist, & Eucharist; 2) Crosscurrents 2003 Interfaith Nature Mystic Sundquist; 3) Crystals, Astrology, Shamanism, Yoga, and James Sundquist Sound Therapy; 4) Sundquist’s Crosscurrents Site That Featured His Music
Given this incredible documentation, its clarity of presentation, and irrefutable logic, I DEMAND that Lighthouse Trails and James Sundquist immediately:
1) REPENT of their New Age agenda, and confess/admit their deception to the world;
2) DENOUNCE publicly anyone and everyone that they have ever been connected to in any why who ever said or did anything that might in any way be able to be connected to any New Age phrases, thoughts, organization, people, radio stations, or musical styles.
3) CEASE all their ministerial activities until such time as it has been determined by their critics when they are ready to be trusted again, after proving themselves to be orthodox.
Until such time as they do all of these things, I shall continue to expose them as New Agers and deceivers, who are luring the church into the hands of the anti-Christ by making it SEEM as if they are really Christians and making it SEEM as if they trying to defend the faith (do apologetics), when in reality they are just lulling their followers into a false sense of trust as they cleverly impart to them their REAL, unseen-by-the-masses, New Age teachings, which only SOUND Christian!! REPENT James Sundquist of your paganism!! REPENT Lighthouse Trails for promoting a mystic!!
R. Abanes
July 5th, 2008 at 10:40 am
seeking to make a submission, but for some reason it will not post. tried 3 x.
RAbanes
July 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
It probably got spammed. Someone will get it.
July 5th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
The importance of keeping secrets secret.
July 5th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Will,
I know who you are. Please post only as your true self here. We ask everyone else to do that as well. Thanks.
July 6th, 2008 at 6:25 pm
http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=51918
Twisting Scripture With Creflo Dollar
i think BTW Chris and Rick Frueh should be as vocal
about folks like Bentley and Creflo Dollar as they are toward Ingrid and her ilk
Creflo Dollar IMO is far worse and harmful to christians than Ingrid
July 6th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
http://christianresearchnetwork.info/2008/06/17/todd-bentley-the-lakeland-revival/
July 6th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
I’m not looking to get into a discussion here on this thread (it’s just for submissions) but I couldn’t disagree with you more. Dollar is an obvious fraud, which makes him far less dangerous.
July 7th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Friends,
Is there any place here where I could ask you all to pray about something?
jerry
July 7th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Ask away, Jerry.
How can we support you?
July 7th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Friends,
My brother in law, Bobby, is 30 years old. He has had an inoperable brain tumor for the last 6 or so years. This past weekend he took a turn for the worse. We have learned from his doctors that the tumor is growing again–although we won’t know at what rate until he has an MRI this week. His chemotherapy essentially quit working this year so we know that he is beginning to near the end.
I praise God that at the beginning of this whole thing he gave his life to Christ. He has hope and for this we are glad and rejoice in Christ.
His mother’s name is Mary and this is particularly difficult for her because her husband died about 18 years ago from a brain tumor and her daughter (my wife Renee) had her own battle with Hodgkin’s Disease in 1991-1992 while we were at GLCC.
I am asking for prayers of support and encouragement and mercy and intercession for my family and especially for Bobby. I have been blessed to baptize the entire family (2 brothers, 1 sister, and mom). My wife was immersed by another preacher shortly before our wedding in 1991. I’m sort of rambling now but this is kind of difficult for any number of reasons. I don’t want to see Bobby have to suffer through any more indignity than he already has and you can imagine what that means with a tumor pressing on the frontal lobe of his brain.
Thank you for whatever encouragement and prayers and intercession you have to offer on Bob’s behalf. I am in your debt.
your friend,
jerry
July 7th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Jerry,
That’s tough.
My family will be praying for yours.
July 7th, 2008 at 10:43 am
We are with you, brother. Christ loves Bob more than we ever could and He will take care of Him.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Praying.
July 7th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
CRN promotes site that promote emerging church artists like Chris Tomlin who hangs with David Crowder.
July 7th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=992
As much diagreement there is between my sister in Christ Mrs. Schlueter and myself, she has spoken more forcefully and more Biblically here than any blog I have seen. And she is absolutely correct.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:38 am
Friends,
I don’t normally hang around the rif-raf of the Online Discernment Mafia, but today they published a hit piece on the uber-hypocrisy of the author of Slice who has yet to call out Chris Rosebrough for his use of filth-talk and the quotation of a secular comedian to make his point. See it here. I thought you might be interested.
Looking out for the Truth,
jerry
PS–My brother in law Bobby is having an MRI today to investigate the rate of growth concerning his tumor. He had a better day yesterday, no doubt because of your prayers. Please continue to pray. Thank you.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:42 am
Friends,
On the other hand, check out Extreme Theology and welcome Chris Rosebrough to the ranks of the ‘lost’. Amazing. Wait till you see the quotes.
jerry
July 8th, 2008 at 7:45 am
How pathetic.
This quote saddened me:
“We ODM’s are opposing all things secular, all things comedy, all things laughter, all things fun and all things filthy-language oriented.”
Gee, sign me up!! Who wouldn’t want to follow this Christ who came to give life and give it abundantly!! Especially when you define “abundant” they way these guys do.
Singing…”I’ve got joy, joy, joy, joy down in my heart!’
July 8th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
You need to do an article on anti-odm sites that have gone over the top. Nobody says anything about this and it’s wrong. Or maybe you don’t think so?
http://www.willfarelxv.wordpress.com
http://www.discerningfaces.myblogsite.com
http://www.itodyaso.wordpress.com
July 8th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Sorry, that was http://discerningfaces.myblogsite.com
July 9th, 2008 at 9:05 am
My apologies, apparently the disernmentfaces.myblogsite.com blog was so bad the guy was forced to delete the stuff where he was claiming ingrid had a pot smoking/booze past and was posting supposed high school photos. Why does it have to get this bad among believers? That would make a great article on this site–what are the limits of being an anti-odm blogger? Are there any?
July 9th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=2023
July 10th, 2008 at 9:31 am
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5322
This is ridiculous.
It’s nice to see that rare moment when ODM’s actually point out something legit.
July 11th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2008/07/scream-of-damned-was-jesus-really.html
Turning and tearing each other.
This one is rich.
CJ and Piper’s claims about how the Christ is damned and that damnation will be the center of heaven!!! Heaven!!!??!?
And Camp’s inability to critique something without also being moralistic.
July 12th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Good discussion on Ray Comfort here…
July 13th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/07/arrogance-and-ignorance-rrogance.html
July 18th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Chris R seems to be back with a vengence. The grace shown to him by Rick Warren must have slid off his back. His last two posts over at Extreme Theology are a pitiful attempt by him to continue promoting his gospel of hate and division. Creating word clouds and heavenly calculators to demonstrate how his gospel is “right” and Warren’s is not.
*sigh*
July 18th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
How to answer an ODM……..
http://richardabanes.wordpress.com/
RAbanes
July 20th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1086
The “Seeker” Sensitive “Gospel” Leads Men Straight to Hell?
July 20th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5435
$10,000 Creflo Dollar Challenge by Chris Rosebrough
July 20th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/07/science-of-happ.html
and:
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/07/you-got-great-p.html
July 20th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/07/false-christ-in.html
False Christ in Siberia?????
July 20th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
The Editor at CRN posts this…
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5465
Which links to this GREAT blog piece…
At Herescope.
I really hope CRN and other ODM websites actually believe this, take it seriously, and change their ways immediately.
If they’re just posting it up on CRN to save face and act like they care about what the blogpost says, then shame on them. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and expect reform instead.
All in all…I find it amazing that CRN would post this, as it basically reveals everything they are doing wrong in discernment. A change of heart maybe then? Hope so.
Seriously, I could have really used that blogpost from herescope about 2 years ago. Heh. Better late than never!
Joe
July 20th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Ah crap…didn’t close the link. Oh well, you get the idea.
July 21st, 2008 at 5:05 am
I was pleasantly surprised to find this posted at Christian Research Network: Watchman or Gossip? It linked to this article at Herescope: http://herescope.blogspot.com/2007/07/watchman-or-gossip.html
Is God working in the ODMs hearts? I believe so and here is the proof!
BTW, a South African wrote the piece.
July 21st, 2008 at 4:21 pm
“Is God working in the ODMs hearts? I believe so and here is the proof!”
Who are you?
Mind your own hearts.
Did anyone read actually read the post?
The real issue is not the tone used.
It is the defining of what is truly unbiblical,heretical and false. Over here I see nothing that you you guys won’t accept, as long as it disagrees with with Ken,Ingrid and a few others.
The “odms” are not Saul, nor are they Absalom.
Nothing over here or in the emergent/megachurch/fluff-camp qualifies as a Nathan, or any other prophet.
Of course “God working in our hearts” only manifests itself as PC.
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Ken and Amy trade barbs on another blog. Somewhat entertaining.
http://strangebaptistfire.com/2008/07/07/an-open-letter-to-ray-comfort/#comments
July 23rd, 2008 at 8:06 am
If somebody posted this already I apologize. I found it interesting that Ingrid turned down Warren’s invitation but, could find the time to attend the WOF gathering so that she could critique that.
July 24th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5545
There is absolutely nothing Christian about these lawyer duels between believers over their own “reputations”. I did not agree with Mrs. Schlueter doing it, and Richard is completely wrong as well.
Very sad to see the degeneration at this level. Not much of a testimony.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
The self proclaimed pastor would come across a bit more sincere had he denounced his comrade in arms when she sicced the lawyers her father no doubt keeps on retainer.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I cannot believe that Rick Abanes is going to law against Ken Silva. It is completely wrong. There is nothing slanderous in the writings towards Abanes, and even if there were, We are commanded in scripture not to go to law against one another as brothers and sisters in Christ.
Why isn’t anyone addressing this here? As Phil Miller likes to say… Oh…Its because _______is on your team.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Maybe no one has had the time yet, PB. Besides, Ken’s actions have real consequences, and guess what, he refuses to listen to the Body of Christ on the matter, so how exactly can it be dealt with Biblically anyways? Maybe Abanes doesn’t think there’s another option to teach Ken what he is doing is wrong. Either way, thank God, most of the world won’t see this torrid affair, and the damage to the Name of Christ will be minimal both ways.
July 24th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
RICHARD ABANES TO SUE APPRISING MINISTRIES OVER DEFAMATION-LIBEL?
What’s good for Ingrid Schlueter, is apparently not good for Richard Abanes, according to Ken Silva. Hmmm, and I didn’t even contact an attorney yet. All I had to do was contact and ISP and Silva is screaming bloody murder and persecution. Interesting.
Moreover, notice how ken Silva has not only refused to remove his libelous material per his ISP request, but he went so far as to deliberately and willfully violate federal copyright laws that prohibit the publishing in any form of private emails protected by privacy laws and the copyright notice on my email to IPOWER,NET, which reads:
Pastor Silva, you have just broken the laws of the land:
I quote gotquestions.org:
We see with full clarity now the heart of Ken Silva.
Richard Abanes
July 24th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
#230
Talk about Slander! Why would you judge the heart of a man? How can you judge the heart of a man?
That in itself is slander, sir.
I am very disappointed. And Saddened
July 24th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Well, his heart has chosen to deliberately break federal copyright laws, in clear direct opposition to the laws of the land. What does that tell you?
R. Abanes
PS. BTW, I have written Ken’s ISP to ask him to please remove his libelous material. That is all. It is Ken’s own stubborn spirit that is blowing this out of proportion. Please send an email to Ken, telling him to abide by the laws of the land.
Richard Abanes
July 24th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Richard,
It tells me that you are way too concerned with man’s laws, because you feel hurt. I get that.
But just because you perceive that a brother has wronged you and has violated scripture, does that mean you get to violate scripture to get back at him?
just wondering.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Pastorboy,
This is a SUBMISSION thread, not a discussion thread. And exactly what have I done that is a violation of scripture? Ask an ISP to tell Ken to take off a slanderous article about me? Where is that in the Bible? I didn’t even contact an attorney, which is what INGRID SCHLUETER did, someone whom I assume you know, is fairly closely connected with Ken. Have you sent similar rebukes to her?
We can discuss this if .INFo decides to make a thread out of it.
R. Abanes
July 24th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Guys, this isn’t a discussion forum. The conversation has gone on too long anyways, can you carry it on in email perhaps? I’m only saying this because I think the site contributors, if they saw this, would say the same thing. Thanks.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:30 pm
Richard,
So you are not intending on carrying out your threat?
So you are lying?
I am very confused.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
PB,
I’m sure the lack of condemnation for Ingrid unleashing her father’s lawyers earlier was just an oversight on your part that will soon be corrected.
Unless Phil was right and its just because you’re on her team.
July 24th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Ohhh, stop it everyone. Here is the true story about what is going on:
http://richardabanes.wordpress.com/
Sigh. Drama drama drama.
R. Abanes
July 25th, 2008 at 1:04 am
Folks - Joe C is right - this is not a discussion thread, and y’all have been around long enough to know better (though I’m probably more disappointed in RA, since PB pretty much disregards all rules and decency on a regular basis). If the two of you would take it to email and avoid moderation, I’d appreciate it.
Chris L
(From my blackberry, on vacation, a bit ticked any posting from me was needed this week…)
July 25th, 2008 at 7:28 am
We seem to think so highly of our own doctrines and when someone disagrees we launch out in attack that often gets personal. We feel that we need to defend our reputation while the only reputation we should is that of sinners. Is that really worth protecting? Perhaps a post on this will be helpful?
http://eugeneroberts.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/building-our-towers-of-babel/
P.S. It seems that I cannot post anything on CRN.Info while connected at the office but it works fine when I’m connected at home. Please email me if you can help at eugene@impetus.co.za
July 25th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Ingrid has another great post on SOL this time about domestic abuse.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Rick,
(comment 224)
Since I’m the only Amy who writes on this blog I assume that you put the above comment here because you thought the Amy writing on strange baptist fire was me?
It wasn’t.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Yep, I thought it was you. Sorry, another Amy.
July 26th, 2008 at 10:58 am
this is something I think even Richard Abanes should respond to
http://srcwm.webcastcenter.com/src/src_072408.wma
and:
http://srcwm.webcastcenter.com/src/src_072508.wma
Southwest Radio Church Ministries (a radio show) talking about Rick Warren and Richard Abanes
they BTW have Bob Dewaay and some other critics of Warren’s as guests
http://www.swrc.com
July 26th, 2008 at 11:08 am
one more show I forgoet to mention:
http://srcwm.webcastcenter.com/src/src_072408.wma
talk about how to tell if your church has gone purpose driven
July 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Why would you link to this? Calling Rick Warren an apostate is way beyond the pale and reveals an incredible lack of undertsanding of apostasy and also a tangible self righteousness.
Here, my brother, feed on something edifying -
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/07/spirit-of-redemption-heb.html
July 26th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
I suggest an article on whether or not you all support what Richard Abanes is doing. Based solely on what Richard Abanes has done.
Iggy apparently approves, but he isn’t a writer. So what are the writers’ opinions. I do sincerely believe that Ingrid would not be behind your site being taken down by Richard Abanes for an article similar to Ken’s.
Silence can be taken as approval.
July 26th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
A TUMULTUOUS TEMPEST IN A VERY SMALL TEAPOT
A response to Ingrid Schlueter - And no, I will not discuss it here. This is only for submissions. Sorry, BTW, Chris L.
Richard Abanes
July 26th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
This is how I view it.
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/07/lesson-to-be-learned-i-cor.html
July 26th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
it;s be a good idea to compare these two wordles of yours and kens sites
http://wordle.net/gallery?username=BigRed
July 26th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
This particular thread is for submissions/suggestions.
While silence could be taken as approval on certain issues, a charitable view might hold a more accurate view that there are more important things (family/friend illnesses, family vacations, massive work schedules, etc.) going on in the lives of the writers, and that their limited writing bandwidth is too taxed at the moment for some items…
So, while sometimes submissions/suggestions are not taken up, it is not because of agreement/disagreement/ambivalence. Rather, it is more likely it was just the wrong time, or it didn’t strike a chord at that moment, or the Spirit didn’t move anyone to pursue it any further…
July 26th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
That is a cool site, BigRed.
I did Apprising.org to see what the focus of the site seems to be in ‘word’. I think the graphic speaks for itself.
LINKYPOO!
July 26th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
And a charitable view of the quote “silence can be taken as approval” could include assuming that the author could have some awareness of all those other “important things.”
A charitable view could also include noting that the comment could be viewed as an encouragement to speak up about an issue that is much larger than Abanes/Silva personal issues and could even negatively effect your site in the future.
July 26th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Make that “negatively affect,” not “negatively effect.”
July 28th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Christian Website Shut Down Based on Rick Warren CHIEF Apologist’s Complaints
http://www.prophecyfellowship.org/showthread.php?t=327346
July 28th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
CHRIS ROSBROUGH THREATENS RICHARD ABANES WITH FULLBLOWN LEGAL ACTION ONLINE:
_______________
READ IT FOR YOURSELF - July 28th, 2008 at 5:02 pm post
Richard,
This sword cuts both ways Richard. Let this comment serve as a legal notice to you.
Unless, you
1. Publicly apologize for falsely claiming that I say that Rick Warren teaches salvation by works.
2. Rescind and apologize for the unfounded and libelous comments that you made about me claiming that I:
A. Have done damage to the body of Christ through the means of “slander, lies, libel, and deceit”
B. That I “spoon feed” lies to my adoring fans.
Then I will seek the fullest legal recourse allowed under U.S. Law.
You have until 12 PM Pacific time on Monday July 28th to comply.
These statements of yours are not only Objectionable, they are libelous and I will no longer idly sit by and allow you to publish these lies about me.
This is no joke. You and your ISP will be hearing from my attorney if you do not comply.
Chris Rosebrough
July 28th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Well, if Richard Abanes can lawyer up , why can’t Chris R.? Heck, let’s all lawyer up! What a testimony!
July 28th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
ABANES OFFICIAL RESPONSE TO CHRIS ROSEBROUGH LAWSUIT THREAT
Richard Abanes
July 28th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
I am a murderer now, just like Saul.
http://truediscernment.wordpress.com/
R. Abanes
This is kind of getting interesting.
July 29th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Are there two Christianities?
http://mikeratliff.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/are-there-two-christianities/
http://witnessingencouragement.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/the-two-christianities/
So how I preach the gospel, not the gospel itself, determines if I’m saved or not?
And it is all Rick Warren’s fault?
July 29th, 2008 at 10:10 am
eugene, there are 2 versions of christianity
one that the word of faith and purpose driven ans emergent and seeker sensitive churches peddle
and then the real gospel iwhich is preached by folks
like john macarthur and woodrow kroll
2 TIMOTHY 4:3-4
July 29th, 2008 at 10:19 am
LINKYPOO
It seems that this site is focussed on CHRIS instead of Christ
July 30th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Chris L. - This post puzzles me.
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5708
Especially this statement:
“Any Emergents that deny the Penal Substitutionary Atonement (aka the True Biblical Gospel) will have to try to save themselves based solely on their good works, best of luck to them.”
I am no expert of the different views of the atonement, but do they really “try and save themselves SOLEY based on their good works”? Isn’t that a gross misrepresentation?
July 30th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
http://buzzardblog.typepad.com/buzzard_blog/2007/11/rob-bell-the-go.html
Good review.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:57 am
Over at Extremetheology Chris R made this comment under the thread, “Progress?” :
Last night I said something along the lines of this:
Chris, here is a Newsflash: It isn’t about YOU. Only God saves, not you. You do not have the power to steal anything.
Oh, wait. Am I reading too much into your quote? So perhaps it would be immature of me to create some nifty calculator that can gauge how well you and others are doing at “stealing souls” and saving them? Would that be unfair?
———
This morning I see that that comment was deleted and when I asked why I found that all my comments are now held for moderation.
Don’t you just love how ODM’s operate?
July 31st, 2008 at 9:43 am
Chad,
Did he also delete his statement where he said he wanted to “steal souls” from Hell? I didn’t see that one.
July 31st, 2008 at 10:53 am
Joe,
No, it is still there:
http://www.extremetheology.com/2008/07/progress.html
The last comment. It is “steal souls from Satan’s kingdom.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:34 am
Joe - allow me this one on topic comment. How can Calvinistic theology mesh with “stealing” souls from Satan’s kingdom. Much, if not most, of what Calvinists teach goes against what they say the believe in some form.
“I want to” is incongruous from “God does what HE WANTS TO”.
Peace.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:13 pm
It is about as incongruous as that entire website, Rick.
July 31st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Ken Silva has made hisposition clear — all of evangelicalsm is apostate!!! Whew!!! I quote: “. . . from where I stand the evangelicalism, which men like Richard Abanes hold dear, is just as apostate overall as the Church of Rome was in Luther’s day” (see his newest article, ‘AS IT CONCERNS RICHARD ABANES AND KEN SILVA” - http://apprising.org/). Gentlemen, get ready.
RA
July 31st, 2008 at 4:21 pm
I TOLD you guys to get read:
“Rick Warren’s PEACE Plan Invokes Hitler . . . See the details of the PEACE plan ceremony and related articles: Rick Warren, Facism & The Family, UK to U.S. Red Letter Christians: Admit You Are Marxists! at the Watcher’s Lamp”
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/
RAbanes
August 3rd, 2008 at 8:56 am
I would like to red a post here about why the blood was not required, and how then the blood is used in a sinners life, and was the present remission of sins by the blood an afterthought since God did not require it. I am having great difficulting understanding the Scriptural reasoning since it’s only been mentioned and not taught completely. Also, who has written about this so I can be informed?
August 3rd, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Rick,
I have no idea what you’re asking… The syntax/underlying assumptions are not clear to me. If this is part of the discussion on PSA, please take it to that thread…
August 3rd, 2008 at 5:37 pm
anyone notice that ODM’s never seem to have a prayer request section on their site
or is it that ODM’s are no different than
those in the emergent and seeker-sensitive movements
who dont believe prayer for the unsaved
(or unchurched as some folks call lost souls)
is important
I think Chris, you ought to do a story on how little ODM”s care about prayer
August 5th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I had my first introduction to Mike Ratliff last night. It is so sad to see such simple-mindedness in the church these days. A laptop and internet connection in the hands of some can be a dangerous thing.
He says this in his personal blog and over at CRN:
Oh yes….the nostalgic days where everything was “black and white.” Why can’t we just have it like we used to?
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5870
August 6th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Ken Silva and Richard Abanes BOTH need to stop and desist!!! This is getting way out of hand. You guys are going after each other and you have better things to do for the sake of the gospel than rag on each other and keep this issue going.
If you really do trust in the Lord, “Then what can man do to you?” that the Lord cannot deal with for you.
Suck it up and get on with the things of Jesus., please.
August 7th, 2008 at 11:04 am
http://christianpost.com/article/20080806/is-there-a-terrorist-in-your-home.htm
Talk about Ron Luce sentimentalizing “terrorism”.
This is the kind of over the top fear mongering that I think really needs to stop.
We can set standards without being crazy too
August 7th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
IWanthetruth I agree
I also think Abanes needs to finally admit he is biased
towards anyone who criticizes his boss Rick Warren
I mean, Abanes is as biased and supportive for Rick Warren and his agenda
as MSNBC is biased for Obama
August 7th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
J: I also think Abanes needs to finally admit he is biased towards anyone who criticizes his boss Rick Warren.
1. Warren is NOT my boss.
2. I am VERY good friends with Todd Wilken, who is one of Rick Warren’s harshest critics. I suggest you look under Week of July 28th to August 1st, Monday, July 28th, 2008.
And despite my disagreements with Todd, I signed the petition to get him back on the air after KFUO kicked him. Hmmm.
I accept your apology.
R. Abanes
Pop Culture Mix Website
Pop Culture Blog
August 7th, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Above is actually a SUBMISSION to pull peeps to Todd’s website and his wonderful shows on heresy, false teachings, doctrines, an controversial issues.
RAbanes
August 8th, 2008 at 11:12 am
okay, richard, if you are “friends” with todd wilken, then why dont you have
a rick warren critic go on some of the radio or tv shows you go on and debate you
I would love to see you debate on the radio,
Warren Smith or Bob Dewaay (both of whom you have mean-spiritedly attacked on your blogs
and have refused to debate with on the radio
http://www.urgentprayers.com
August 8th, 2008 at 11:28 am
J,
Your submission there is communication to another submitter. Please take that to email. This thread is a place to submit various things around the web or world for comment. This is not the place to have a comment conversation. Richard, please do not respond here to his statements either. I thank you both in advance.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Rick Warren, False Prophets, and the Remnant
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5969
August 8th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
More Legal Problems for Silva? — Another Libel Accusation
August 10th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/08/is-gods-grace-more-than-theology-t-he.html
August 12th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Chris:
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1513
Who in the world cares about this? No mention of prayer for the Edwards family, his wife’s cancer, or the darkness of this lady.
Another case of fallen voyeurism from a graceless vantage point.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Seeing the severe lack of understanding surrounding sanctification and Wesley’s Christian perfection on so many blogs (ie. suggesting that the “Arminian” view is all about works, etc.) I have posted a portion of a sermon series I did on Christian perfection. You can find it here:
http://chadholtz.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/christian-perfection/
peace,
Chad
August 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Read here
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1539
So, RA, since I am a blogger and these are names you are calling “me” (by the fact that I would be automatically included as one of these bloggers) can I begin legal action for libel and slandrous speech?
Since RA blogs as well does he include himself in the descriptive words for bloggers? Maybe he can start legal action on himself!
August 13th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1539
Post here… Question, since we are bloggers then we can sue each other for libel and slander.
RA… Does this mean, even though you don’t know me, yet you included me in your blanket statement, that I can sue you for the things you havecalled me (supposedly) in this article along with everyone else who fits this bill?
Are you starting legal action on yourself?
August 14th, 2008 at 6:18 am
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022201.php#comments
Here is the story of an authentic stand for Christ that transcends blog posts. You want truth? You can’t handle this truth!
August 14th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Former Muslim Unhappy with Muslim-Christian Statement
Aug 14
Not everyone in evangelicalism is giving out high fives over the recent statement issued at Yale University regarding common ground between Muslims and Christians. A former Muslim who operates a ministry to adherants of Islam points out the inherent problems with the document. The giddy assortment of evangelical signers like Rick Warren, Leith Anderson and emerging church gurus like Brian McLaren and Miroslav Wolf were quick to quote a verse from the Koran to make their case about the Muslims and peace. The only problem is, their Koranic exegesis wasn’t so hot. Read about it here at the Christian Post.
http://christianpost.com/article/20080813/ministry-finds-fault-with-yale-christian-muslim-declaration.htm
Seems that this has been an on going issue with these and other leaders. Scripture out of context even if it is other than the bible to make a point or prove their points.
Tim
August 14th, 2008 at 10:44 pm
CRN Link
I just want to point this out because I find it a tad bit dishonest. First of all there’s no link to the study, but aside of that there’s another issue I have. Even if those stats are true, the sheer number of people they’re reaching is far greater than most churches. So think, if 56% of people going there don’t believe Jesus is the only way, and that presumably means they’re not Christian; well then 44% do. And so I assume those numbers are also reflective of the massive ammounts of new people coming in to the church too. So…~44% of the new people at that church who become Christian will end up believing in Jesus as the only way, and since that’s probably a huge number of people (since it’s a huge ministry) that’s a lot of ’saved’ people, right? So okay, you get a majority of people who ‘don’t get it’ and even if we say those people are lost, there’s still a huge number of people who are being saved by their ministry. Does anyone ever expect it to be 100% conversion? Of course not. So I don’t see the point of CRN’s post on this one. It’s one sided, and it doesn’t consider the sheer numbers. 46% of 1000 ( just guessing) people is still a lot of people reached for Christ. Probably a lot more than a stuffy insular reformed church with a very complicated description of the Gospel pointed at the 2 or 3 new people who might come each week that aren’t Christian.
Heh.
Joe
August 14th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Oh and let’s not even bring up the fact that Granger is being totally transparent here in showing the study, to help everyone out, not to mention their honesty. The very fact that they are doing this study shows that they care about improving what they are doing to reach even MORE people for Christ. But hey, let’s not give them any credit there, right?
That my friends is dishonest and slanted reporting.
Peace
August 14th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
How about just saying “We have shown Granger to be a compromised church at best, if anything changes we”l let you know” and move on to fresh meat? The dead horse principle has long since been passed.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Do you really think they are compromised? I mean saying “we have proof they are producing false converts” is kind of crazy to say considering ALL congregations will do this to some degree. One which has a large influx of people all the time should expect to have more, by sheer volume, not necessarily by percentages/ratios though. I don’t think that’d be any different all the world round…plus or minus.
August 14th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
1) This is the submissions thread, not the place for discussion.
2) I’ll be at GenCon tomorrow, but hopefully someone will write an article on this.
3) I wish I was writing one, but it will have to wait. Part of my professional training is in statistics, and Chris R. (unsurprisingly) completely misses the boat on this. Why? He uses the aggregate numbers, rather than recognize the statistical breakdown given in the study. With the breakdown of the population given (between the four descriptions) it is no surprise that a majority of church members (66%) have been attending church for less than 5 years, and that 43% of the church are advanced in maturity level.
So - if you bring in a lot of new people, your “maturity” level should, as a result, drop. It’s pretty much a “duh” factor for a rapidly growing church, that there’s a lot of work to be done in helping new believers mature.
The question becomes whether or not they are able to help people down the road to maturity.
So, which is better - a church of 100 people who score 90+% on the “key” beliefs but the church size is stagnant - or - a church which grows by 100 people a year in which only 17% of those 100 have solid, orthodox beliefs by the end of the year?
Chris Rosebrough dishonest in analysis? No surprise.
August 15th, 2008 at 9:52 am
This is an interesting WaPo blog entry I came across this morning
August 16th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
What purpose does posting this serve? It obviously insinuates infidelity, and the ad hominen verbiage reduces any doctrinal discussion to an SNL skit. I again suggest the presence of Schadenfreude. And just to add some fleshly hubris the “editor” says he isn’t shocked. Shameful.
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=6134
August 17th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Chris - I am confident there will be an apology for ever doubting. Warren not only asked about abortion, he pressed the issue about when life begins, and even asked about stem cells. I personally abhor politics in church, but many criticzed Warren before he ever got a chance. I’m sure they will admit their mistake.
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=6145
August 17th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
The current piece at AM Ken calls a “devotional”. The sentence “God’s unconditional love is only for those who are in Christ”. Not only is that a felonious misuse of Scripture, it just reinforces my disdain for Calvinism.
No wonder people attack sinners with such effervescence, they believe God hates them. That can be found in
Phelps Theology.
August 17th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Be sure not to miss Rick Frueh starring at CRN.Info as “The Tattletale.”
August 17th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
What’s up with Slice these days? She’s gone again?
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1597
August 17th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Ken,
Does that mean there will be a retraction about your Rick Warren articles coming anytime soon? Of course not.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:17 am
Joe M,
(Sorry, I just had to do it
)
August 18th, 2008 at 12:28 am
I just have no words………
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1600
August 18th, 2008 at 1:18 am
Richard - I wholeheartedly agree, the article was cynical, demeaning, and beneath a humble, Christian assessment. I personally reject politics, but the Bible says give honor to men in position. Rick Warren was fair and even probing and asked hard questions.
Hate has an energy all its own, and hate cannot admit any wrong.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Aw, Richard, you made Ingrid interrupt her latest vacation to make somebody take down the guest post on Slice from the english guy. It’s gone now.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1600
August 18th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
For your viewing displeasure — Here is the article from Shclueter’s blog, reproduced with my opening comments and closing challenge to Ingrid:
Hate-Rhetoric
R. Abanes
August 18th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
This is why I asked if it was legal to copy almost verbatim another bloggers posts.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1628
August 18th, 2008 at 6:40 pm
INGRID SHCLUETER ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE BLOG!!!!
Friends,
After reposting the above article (see previous link) that originally appeared at Ingrid’s blog, she notified me by email that I was in violation of the copyright she held on that article and demanded that I immediately remove it.
I have since re-written my article, quoting from it per the guidelines established by US Copyright Law. I have also posted at the end of the article, this legal update:
__________BEGIN
PUBLIC LEGAL UPDATE
Soon after reposting the article by Mr. Williams as it originally appeared at Ingrid Schlueter’s blog, I received a letter of complaint from her, accusing me of infringing on her copyright of the article. She also called me personally, and left a message on my answering machine.
I have since amended the above article since it is clear to me that Ingrid might be wanting to stifle free speech among bloggers, which in turn, could eventually limit our precious First Amendment rights.
Such a travesty, however, must never be allowed. This article, therefore, will remain up, but in a slightly different form—i.e., one that is completely protected by the freedom of speech rights we have in the United States. I also sent the following email to her, notifying her of my intentions.
To: Ingrid Schlueter
FR: Richard Abanes
RE: Blog Article
Dear Ms. Schlueter,
I am in receipt of your complaint. The article in question has been amended per the guidelines established by FAIR USE laws that govern the United States. My article, titled “More Hate-Rhetoric Hits the Internet,” appears in a format that protected by my copyright on it—i.e., in a form that is substantially changed from the form in which it appeared on your website. In its current form, it is not only protected by U.S. Copyright Law, but also falls well-within the guidelines of FAIR USE.
Thank you,
RAbanes
August 18th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
It would appear that RA is submitting his comment (#310) for an article. I would love to comment on #310. :).
August 18th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Oh, BTW, guys, if you cannot see the ironic humor I am trying to push here, then I cannot help you.
Ingrid seems to have missed it totally.
RA
August 18th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
So were you putting your “ironic humour” up for an article? Or simply breaking the rules and starting a discussion?
August 18th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
OK, I am a little confused. Why is it OK to post your Christian stuff on YouTube when I have seen some of the most blasphemous things imaginable on that site? Those guys allow anything so why are they not objectionable enough to avoid?
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1650
August 19th, 2008 at 8:17 am
Does anyone know if Chris R is blocking/deleting/moderating all comments at Extreme Theology or is it just mine? The last 2 things I have posted there went to moderation and have not shown up after 2 days. I just want to know whether I can boast for being black-listed from all the right sites!
August 19th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
INGRID SCHLUETER CONDEMNS FUNDAMENTALISTS!!!
What??? I thought this is exactly what she and the other ODMs had condemned Rick Warren for!!!???
She seem st have two DIFFERENT definitions of Fundamentalists and Fundamentalism.
Wait, again!! This was exactly what Rick Warren was saying when he condemned “Fundamentalists,” but that was not accepted as an excuse! Hmmmm….
__BEGIN
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=1683
She just did EXACTLY what Rick Warren did, but he criticized “Fundamentalists” for not listening.” She criticized them for dwelling on stupid issues. But Warren is a demon. She is not.
RAbanes
August 19th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I was surprised Mrs. Schlueter used the lyric from a secular song as her title. Maybe a “Let it Be” post soon!
August 19th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
August 19th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
http://www.onenewsnow.com/Legal/Default.aspx?id=218780
The American Christians are the biggest and most pathetic whiners in the world. Believers suffer around the world and we claim persecution because doctors cannot refuse artificial insemination to gays.
I have the answer - just don’t do it and pray God will help you make your Mercedes payment if you lose business. I know it’s a high price to pay but persecution is so painful. How shall we ever deal with real persecution if we keep magnifying such things as this?
Answer: We’ll whine with a precision learned from these years of practice.
August 19th, 2008 at 9:10 pm
What are the worst events to watch in the Olympics?
Suggestions:
Diving
Equestrian
August 20th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Okay, big news folks. THE Paul Washer preached to a group of Christian rappers - the video is online at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfdpFdZq7nA but there’s a twist - as in a, M. Night Shyamalan ‘never-saw-it-coming’ twist. He’s down with it. You have got to check out this video (first five minutes is all you need to see); moreover, Ingrid/Ken ought to see this video. It apparently was at a conference in 2007, and I could be acting foolish going nuts over a video that everyone already knows about, but I just thought it was totally awesome. Cheers.
See also: http://lyricaltheology.blogspot.com/2007/08/legacy-conference.html
August 20th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
As long as they are reformed it’s all sanctified. I have heard Washer promote these guys. If Warren endorses Christian rappers he’s the anti-christ. The hyenas that have your spots get a pass.
August 20th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Mrs. Schlueter has a heart for adoption and I believe has some adopted children. I have always admired that in her. But I find it absolutely disgusting that Ken would introduce her post with a swipe at Richard Abanes and open suggestion of ODMs works righteousness when the post should be exclusively about the children.
The post was warming, Ken’s introduction was nothing but flesh.
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=6246
August 21st, 2008 at 8:39 pm
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=6260
There are those who claim some persecution and adorn themselves with flattering words of supposed faithfulness to Christ in an exagerated battle, but there is nothing so repulsive, so disingenuous, and so hollow when those words come from a Christian blogger. Let me pull back the sacred veil and let us be provoked by the tale of a legitimate martyr and magnificent example of a faithful soldier of Jesus Christ, namely John Huss.
“I thought the danger already passed” he replied; “but happily, I am nothing tempted to gainsay what I have advanced. I have taught the truth, and am now ready to seal it with my blood. Ultimately it shall prevail, though I may not see it. This day you kindle the flames of persecution about a poor and worthless sinner; but the spirit which animates me, shall, phoenix-like, ascend from my ashes, soar majestically on high through many succeeding ages, and prove to all the Christian world, how vain this persecution, how impotent your rage.”
The martyr turned as far as his bands would admit, and looked towards the executioner, who now approached to kindle the fire. His movements caused some of the outer faggots to fall. Upon this, the flaming torch was laid down, till the wood could be replaced. The Bohemian saw the torch resumed, and in the same instant he heard the crackling of the lighted straw. The rapidly extending blaze spread round the pile; while, seizing the last moments that remained to him on earth, Huss was heard to sing out in prayer, “Christ, Thou Son of the living God, have mercy on me.” He was proceeding, when the rising flames seized his beard, eyes and eyebrows, and an involuntary start threw the cap from his head. His voice was again heard above the roaring of the volume of fire, which now burst from the top of the pile behind the stake. Utterance failed him; but his uplifted eyes evinced (showed), in that awful moment, that his heart was still awake to devotion, though his tongue was mute forever. His face became violently distorted, and bowing down his head he was seen to expire.”
Remove your shoes…
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:49 am
August 22nd, 2008 at 10:50 am
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
anyhow Golds win, the amounts only count when ur drawing on Golds!!!!!
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:38 am
Ingrid states she is NOT PREGNANT…
August 23rd, 2008 at 6:14 am
Iggy - this has never been funny. Your site is not funny and I am sure the Spirit would have us all deal with issues and not adolescent personal satires, especially toward a sister that has asked you to stop.
Ingrid’s site, although over the top sometimes, does not deal in things like this. And as a Christian, even if she did, that does not give any of us license to do the same. As an older brother in Jesus Christ and a preacher for 31 years, I ask you to pray and reconsider this part of your life, it is detracting from the benefits of your ministry.
Rick
August 23rd, 2008 at 7:05 am
Rick,
Thanks for you opinion… I did the post to clear up the rumor… so thank you…
Be blessed,
iggy
ps, next time email me in private as this is a submission thread not a comment thread.
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:22 am
THIS should be a lesson to everyone. Ray Comfort sent Ingrid flowers and thanked her for her love for sound doctrine. Then he rehearses part of the entire conference incident noting “This caused all sorts of problems with many who (understandably) accused me of giving credibility to false teachers”.
After some exchnages Comfort sent the flowers to Ingrid. He says,
“That made a nice ending to a rough week”, Comfort says.
Done, right? No, both Ken and Ingrid were up in arms because according to them by Comfort making the flower thing public it made Ingrid look as if she had caved in. You know what, I now believe much of what goes on some of the most orthodox of blog venues has ceased being Christian. Take note, there are some with whom you cannot have any Christian discourse, even when admitting wrong and changing your ways as has Comfort.
Here is a statement that will reveal the absolute core of the self serving motive from Ingrid - “This female is not won over to anyone’s side because some pretty blooms were sent her way”.
Is that how we should train our daughters to speak? The entire incident just brings fresh revelations of the spiritual void left by some of the ODMs as they parade their stand for themselves. Sorry Mr. Comfort, next time save your flowers and your time.
In the original Greek - it’s just plain “nuts”!
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:24 am
KEN SILVA HISTORY TWIST???
Can someone do some research and explain how it is that Ken Silva has made these statements, in apparent contradiction to history:
I say in apparent contradiction to history because according to the Baptist Press, Silva’s church didn’t come into existence until it was planed in 1997, with its first service being held on June 8, 1997!! So, what chruch is Silva talking about that had 100+ members in the 1980s??
Anyone want to look into this and do an article?
R. Abanes
August 23rd, 2008 at 11:44 am
Whew, what a research whiz.
All I did was repeat information given me when I became pastor, whatever error may be involved would be contained therein.
FYI, in the late 80’s-1999 I was out west and then later in FL, a long, long way from little ol’ NH.
Not much of an article. Fellas really, I am not that interesting.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:34 pm
I think Ken Silva and Richard Abanes should start a blog site together so that they can continue their back and forth love for each other and not bother sites with their wasted time.
August 23rd, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Interesting. Silva does not even know the history of his own church? Christian RESEARCH Network?
I think an article on research techniques among ODMs is in order. It might be helpful to those interested in how exactly to do it. Consider this a request for such an article based on the following comments from an ODM who didn’t even bother researching his own church. LoL.
How ironic.
Richard Abanes
August 23rd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Moderators… isn’t it time to stop these posting since it is for submission only.
Boys take it somewhere else!!!
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Uhmmmm, I thought these were submission.
#331 = request for story/research on the history of Ken’s church.
#334 = request for a story and suggestion about research of ODMs, particularly that of Silva.
Am I missing something here about what a submission is? I did not respond to Silva here at all. So, TiMH, please clarify or point me to a link that details exactly why/where my posts were not submission. I don’t see them as very different from previously posted submission.
TY,
RAbanes
August 23rd, 2008 at 2:55 pm
We are looking into ways to change the submissions page into something that isn’t a comment thread (to prevent such back-and-forth)…
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Thank you…
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Thank you.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Thank you.
August 23rd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Thank God…
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
thank…
forget it.
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Actually, is it possible to have the suggestions moderated too?
August 24th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
there is a website called biblicalthought.com,it is a shrine to Dr. Robert Morey and a few other true calvinists.It almost seems cult like in its tone.I just thought it might be a change from all Ken,Ingrid and thier cohorts of division.( I just tried a little inflamitory Ken talk .)
Just a thought,Opus
August 24th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
Quit giving Abanes a forum. Then you can thank God.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:33 am
>>>>Quit giving Abanes a forum. Then you can thank God.<<<<
If you don’t agree…..”shut ‘em down”!
Oh brother.
August 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Please be praying for Mike Corely; he has had tough time of late.
http://theexpositor.wordpress.com/2008/08/23/mike-corley-selling-wqbc-radio/
August 25th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/abominations/television-evangelist-jailed-on-criminal-domestic-abuse/
You know how I feel about publishing the moral failures of preachers. But in this post Ingrid links not to a secular newspaper, but to a blog whose description is to “debunk evangelical Christianity”. Talk about being unequally yoked.
August 25th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
BTW - the article was posted on 8/8/08 so it slipped through, but better late than never. There is a menagerie of blasphemous articles on that blog which should never be referenced by any believer, but as long as they have “the goods” on a preacher they can be used as a research source.
August 26th, 2008 at 11:16 am
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121944811327665223.html?mod=The-Saturday-Interview
“Speaking at the Aspen Institute a few years ago, Mr. Warren was asked by a member of the audience whether he believed that she, a Jew, would be going to hell after she died, since she had not accepted Jesus as her savior. “Yes,” he answered, honestly.”
August 26th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Submission:
Rick Frueh doesn’t do his homework. We do. VCY America contacts Dr. Crewe because we carry his TV show on our station. He admits it all to our program director. Article suggestion: VCY America to remove show of wife abuser/drunk evangelist. In tripping over himself to criticize me, Rick now looks silly. Now there’s a story.
August 26th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
Yes.
Praise you, Ingrid.
Qualitative difference demonstrated over time…Rick made a mistake, you make a “ministry” out of angry smearing.
So great you got something right…enjoy the rarity.
Rick,
There’s one of your nickels…
ooops…
August 26th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
You’re so sweet, nc. Love the fact that you posted your comment on a blog that was created to smear Ken and me.
It makes you so credible. And no, this isn’t a comment thread, so, Tschüs!
August 26th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
huh…responding to your statements wherever they may be found has something to do with “credibility”?
oh, yeah, I forgot…you don’t have comments on your smear blog.
But, you’re right, this isn’t a comment thread.
We should stop lest anymore honesty directed your way gets cast as “bullying”…
TTFN.
August 26th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
An article on Warren that we are quite likely NOT to see on Slice…..
From The Wall Street Journal….
Full article
August 26th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
INGRID SCHLUETER THREATENS LEGAL ACTION — AGAIN. THIS TIME A RESTRAINING ORDER AGAINST RICHARD ABANES. It doesn’t get any more bizarre than this, folks).
Ingrid Threatens Abanes With Restraing Order
Ken Silva responds with applause: “As far as I’m concerned it looks to me as if you’re simply reaping what you’ve sown. Sow the threaten legal action and receive a threat of legal action. My advice is it’s time now to grow up Richard.” (KEN SILVA, comments, Pop Culture Mix). “God be praised. If so, Richard Abanes would simply be receiving what he sowed” (KEN SILVA, comments, Phoenix Preacher).
August 26th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
INGRID SHCLUETER ATTEMPTS TO SILENCE BLOG!!!!
Friends,
After reposting the above article (see previous link) that originally appeared at Ingrid’s blog, she notified me by email that I was in violation of the copyright she held on that article and demanded that I immediately remove it.
Boy you may be thinking that turnabout is fair play, but Richard, she didn’t DO what you did, nor did Ken do what you say he did in your very REAL attempt to silence him. You made broad accusations about ‘defamation’ and ‘libel’ and didn’t even provide any specifics on which things needed to be removed, (of course, there was nothing that should have been removed for being ‘untrue’ anyway). And the ISP did buckle with your big scary threat, so… you got what you wanted: Apprising is no longer hosted on I Power. (shrug)
August 27th, 2008 at 9:11 am
As a new commenter on this blog, please enlighten me. Is it just me, or do the ODMs exhibit these traits?
a) Why do ODMs have rules on commenting?
b) (condt) Why do ODMs comment on other blogs, but disallow others from commenting on theirs?
c) Why can ODMs ban some from commenting, or threaten with legal action, when this is blogsphere - anything goes!
d) Why is it that ODMs can call upon others to repent, or threaten others with hell-fire and judgement? Have they ever sinned before? Or ever made a mistake? Or held to some unbiblical view(s)?
f) Why is it that the ODMs need to rally around each other - can they not stand on their own 2 feet?
g) Why is it that the ODMs can quote various languages and authors, when it is painfully obvious - they have not studied or read them? CCEL and Google is not counted!
h) How is possible that the ODMs can label so-and-so as heretics, but have little problems with Christian Rap, Rock, Metal, etc?
I must admit, this is a very insightful blog, keep up the good work.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:14 am
BCP - If you continue with those questions you will hear from my lawyer.
August 27th, 2008 at 9:20 am
BCP,
I guess by your definition, I am not an ODM!
a) anyone can comment on my blog!
b) see comment a
c) Richard Abanes is not an ODM, he threatened the lawsuit, not Ken.
d) All Christians are given that message, hopefully ODM’s are not the only ones giving it!
f) The whole purpose of this site is to rally around the ADM point of view to supposedly defend against that- Blatant hypocrisy!
h) Music is not inherently sinful…
August 27th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Rick,
And you will hear from mine! growl!
PB,
I do not know if you are an ODM, so I will disregard your “I am not an ODM” remark.
a) nice that you allow others to comment.
b) same as a
c) I do not know the ins-and-outs of the Richard Abanes vs Ken saga, and frankly, I don’t really care. It is a general observation.
d) As far as I can tell, the ODMs are doing a great job in this department.
e) —
f) Who is the top-man in this blog? I have only started visiting this site a few months ago, but I have yet to see anyone gathering around a few “popes”.
g) —
h) “Music is not inherently sinful” - ah, the usual argument. It is about worldliness vs godliness, my friend.
August 27th, 2008 at 11:12 am
PASTORBOY: c) Richard Abanes is not an ODM, he threatened the lawsuit, not Ken.
RA: Stop lying. You and the ODMS seem to have that sin as your number one failing — lying. You just can’t seem to help yourselves. Odd.
And yes, this is a comment, since this submission thread seems to have stopped being a submission thread.
RA
August 27th, 2008 at 11:17 am
Sorry to the owners of this blog. After 362 comments, I realised that there was a point to this post!
I will comment elsewhere.
RA,
Perhaps not lying, but unable to do what they are meant to be good at - Discern.
BCP
August 27th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
BCP,
just wait…like you said, you’re new here…
“lying” it is.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
nc,
“you’re new here”… Sounds like a fraternity, where do I sign up?
ok then, “lying”.
August 27th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=6379
What is “Biblical Christianity” other than what I believe? If Abanes doesn’t espouse Biblical Christianity who does?
August 27th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
BCP,
ha!
fraternity…that’s funny…
August 27th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
BCP,
Be happy there’s no hazing.
August 28th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Today I am calling all to prayer for Ken Silva and Ingrid Schlueter. I ask for prayers of blessings upon them.
My simple prayer is the prayer that Peter writes in 2 Peter 3:18
That they “…grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.”
Please take time today to say this prayer for them.
Be blessed,
iggy
August 28th, 2008 at 11:13 am
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/apologetics/youtube-crosstalk-slice-crn-and-david-koresh/
Growing Hostility Toward Christianity… from Evangelicals such as RichArd Abanes
August 28th, 2008 at 11:59 am
http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/shows/2008/08/growing_hostility_toward_bibli.php
Growing Hostility Toward Biblical Christianity…from Evangelicals like
Richard Abanes and Chris Lyons and Brian McLaren
August 28th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/circus-church/da-bling-lotto-money-nets-church-a-new-building/
What was the preacher supposed to do? Turn it down? I guess if Hugh Hefner discovered a cure for cancer we should refuse that treatment due to its source. There is no joy in Mudville…
August 28th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
“Growing Hostility Toward Biblical Christianity…from Evangelicals like
Richard Abanes and Chris Lyons and Brian McLaren”
I love this line from Ingrid,
“This isn’t our opinion, this is “This saith the Lord”.
The modern day Mrs. John the Baptists.
August 28th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Ingrid is a formidable woman, isn’t she?
What ever happened to
“Let your women keep silence in the churches…”
“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.”
“But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.”
Perhaps I am out-of-date…
August 28th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Rick,
Gambling is wrong and it great to see a church do something correct even though they loss a lot, I am refering to a church in FL that turned down $600,000 when someone won the lotto.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
If Hugh Hefner got saved would a church forbid him to give any of his tainted money? Did the church that turned down the money ever borrow from a secular bank who loans the interest to abortion clinics, strip clubs, liquor stores, gay entrepreneurs, or a host of other thing?
It is very difficult to be untouched by this world unless you create your own parameters within which you already operate.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Rick,
That is why I propose a “Christian” lotto… from a 10th of our tithes…
iggy
August 28th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
BCP,
I’m an egalitarian, but after witnessing that “ministry” I’ve had to reconsider my position…considering the benefits.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Says who?
August 28th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Yeah but the lotto and gambling is a lot different than that. Basically lotto is stealing money from those who can least afford to lose it for your own personal gain. It is no way to show love towards your neighbor. Would you accept money from Playboy, personal?
Also I think a lot of churches borrow from demoniations that have there own systems set up just for helping churches with finicances. Not all but I now my church borrowed a small sum, like 5,000 or so from the GBC to do some renovations on a new building we moved into a few years ago.
I agree we live in the world and can not get away from that. But we can still take a stand and can evil, evil. Lotto money is evil, it is the opposite of love for your neighbor.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
The government stole the whole “lotto” idea from my ancestors (prosecuting them and creating a mythological mafioso) and then instituting their own thing.
Simply Terrible. Thank you Kyle in Wi for this wonderful reminder of how my people have been persecuted.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
BCP you sound towards Ingrid the same way
Richard Abanes acts when it comes to criticism of his messiah Rick Warren
August 28th, 2008 at 1:42 pm
“Lotto money is evil”
I believe attacking struggling teenagers with demeaning verbiage is MUCH more evil.
BTW - only the dollar bills are evil, the fifties - not so much.
August 28th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Joe you said.
“Thank you Kyle in Wi for this wonderful reminder of how my people have been persecuted.”
I have no clue what you are talking about?? But you are welcome.
August 28th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/announcement/crosstalk-youtube-is-back-up-after-being-pulled/
There’s a truth war going on, friends. Who knew it was being fought on the bloodied battlefield of YouTube, among all the blasphemous and soft porn clips. I can smell the faggots burning around the YouTube stake as we speak! Oh the humanity!!
August 29th, 2008 at 11:06 am
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/announcement/crosstalk-youtube-is-back-up-after-being-pulled/
Crosstalk YouTube clip is Back Up After Being Pulled by anti ODM groups
August 29th, 2008 at 11:40 am
“PURPOSE DRIVEL” BLOG ATTACKS “PHOENIX PREACHER” BLOG
RA
September 1st, 2008 at 2:19 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/announcement/richard-abanes-gets-video-pulled-again/
There is more obsession with this tape than the Mini-Me sex tape. It has become blog theatre.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:06 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/uncategorized/1931/
Once again, the video is back at Slice.
Thank God…
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:12 am
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/announcement/richard-abanes-gets-video-pulled-again/
BTw:
why is Chris Lyons refusing to talk about this on the site
cause I notice he has nothing to say about Abanes behavior.
September 2nd, 2008 at 11:54 am
J,
Chris Lyons has also refused to write an article about his feelings on the designated hitter. No one is bound to write about anything here.
Everyone,
Please refrain from offering commentary with link submissions on this thread.
September 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
okay Phil.
what I meant was if someone did this to Abanes or anyone in the Emergent movement
Chris would be all over them, but he is largely silent on this and I think he should speak out against Abanes bad behavior
like he has on Ingrid or Ken’s behavior
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:31 pm
As I stated before, J, please refrain from offering commentary on this thread. If something is not being said that you think needs to be said, there’s nothing stopping you from having your own blog.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
J,
Actually, there’s been clear condemnation from this site of everyone in that fiasco…
I think there should be an indefinite moratorium on the jejune Abanes/Silva/Schlueter donnybrook.
September 2nd, 2008 at 1:43 pm
1) Again: Submissions thread - not discussion thread
2) Can’t a guy have a holiday weekend & busy beginning-of-school-year w/o having it construed as “refusing to talk about” something? Really? Perhaps I’ve been taking a month that included some sorely needed pure vacation time, family time, etc. - time to recharge the batteries… Going several weeks without ever looking at Slice/C?N certainly improves one’s mood…
3) I wrote an article on the RA/KS thing over a month ago, disgusted with the whole mess. Not sure any additional comment is needed.
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:43 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_hitter
If this is too hot a topic for you Lyons just say so. You are rapidly slipping into compromise.
September 9th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Here is JOHN MACARTHUR (quoted at apprising.org, new article DR. JOHN MACARTHUR ON THE POSTLIBERAL CULT OF THE EMERGING CHURCH ):
RAbanes: In this same article, according to MacArthur, the ENTIRE Emerging Church:
1. doesn’t know what the Bible says,
2. feels it can’t know what it says,
3. denies the clarity of scripture,
4. is another form of liberalism,
5. hates the light,
6. has discomfort with the Gospel & Sin……
This is the entire Emerging Church, mind you, the whole thing as if it is a monolithic entity — although at the beginning of his diatribe, MacArthur calls it “an amorphous sort of loose-knit association of churches.”
Perhaps MacArthur should have also mentioned how liars will not inherit the kingdom of God, either. Here’s a verse for the ODMs:
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8).
RAbanes
September 9th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
And now they are finally turning on each other –
Purpose-Driven critics Jacob Prasch and David Lister attack Purpose-Driven critic James Sundquist who attacks Pastor John Higgins….. See Statement Concerning James Sundquist.
Sad.
For in-depth coverage from another ODM siding with Sundquist, see our friend Paula at purpose drivel blog
RA
September 11th, 2008 at 11:58 am
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/culture-war/a-christian-girls-role-model/
As usual Ingrid misses the point, she says that many of us argued that Miley Cyrus was a Christian role model (who said that?), and basically set up her own ficticious narrative and now claims to be vindicated.
She says we were “nearly incontinent” (nice phrase), and she says “By the way she and her colleague are dressed, I’m understanding these male bloggers defense of her more all the time…” which is a veiled accusation of lust on men who disagreed with her attack.
She says “I want to demonstrate how the howls and snarls of the males who called me ridiculous and uptight and foolish for daring to criticize Miley Cyrus as a Christian role model for little girls were misplaced.”
Where did anyone say that? She makes this stuff up as she goes. Some of us said she was unmerciful and relentless in her attack of a teenage girl who is obviously caught in the entertainment treadmill. Her effervescence and obvious joy at Ms. Cyrus’s compromise is palpable. I refuse to watch the links because my contention was always the unredemptive and judgmental aspect of Ingrid’s so called “discernment”. She points out the obvious and claims spiritual discernment. You are sooo right Ingrid, and if you wait a little longer we all might see Miley completely destroy her life which will be great fodder for a final update to all us males. Watching a human train wreck by a teenager and using the wreckage as proof that you were right is so Christian. And linking to whatever perversion she was engaged in is OK because it is Christian journalism. I believe it is child pornography offered up to substantiate your publishing of the obvious. She refers to us as “males” as another display of bitterness and scorn.
The “Christian” blogasphere has long ago discharged its core - redemption.
September 13th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Hello,
I’ve written a post about “context” and I would like your opinions….
http://phillyflash.wordpress.com/2008/09/13/context-is-everything
Thanks,
Phil
September 14th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Being Saved but not Being a Christian.
http://judahslion.blogspot.com/2008/09/being-saved-but-not-being-christian-to.html
September 15th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/uncategorized/gospel-singer-ray-boltz-comes-out-in-washington-blade/
Ray Boltz has been going through a dark struggle for decades. I cannot imagine the pain of telling your family. He has thoughts of suicide and I’m sure self loathing. And Ingrid uses that as a platform to castigate contemporary music and extol the virtues of hymns. Heartless and self serving.
September 15th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
This deserves a mention. I believe he is referring to Ray Boltz.
http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2008/09/gospel-matters-sin-restoration.html
September 16th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
http://www.usapostolicalliance.org/
What is your take on this gentleman??>?
September 17th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Ingrid Schlueter bags on apologists in toto, specifically all of those in attendance at the apologetics conference at Southern Evangelical Seminary (Norman Geisler). Unbelievable, you have to read it.
Why, oh why, did they not invite Schuleter or Ken Silva (who was personally mentored by the late, great Dr. Walter Martin)? What is this world coming to?
RAbanes
September 17th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Friends,
Not normally in the habit of using the submissions page for self-promotion, but since we have lately been talking a little about politics here, and since I am on hiatus from .info, i thought you might be interested in this:
Why I’m Not Voting in 2008
jerry
September 17th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
The ODMs are now feeding on each other — this is from Paula (another Rick Warren hater and rather bizarre blogger) http://www.purposedrivel.com/
I guess this feud got started when Prasch attacked another Warren hater (James Sundquest) who attacked a friend of Prasch, or something like that. L0L.
And this is exactly what I was trying to warn people about. It’s all become a war of taking sides based on personal stuff — not truth. And because the ODMs are not basing their attacks on truth, everyone has been given the freedom to just start chewing each other up over just about anything. Sigh……
For more info on Prasch, see my article http://abanes.com/moriel.html
R. Abanes
September 17th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=1212&more=1&c=1
September 18th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Gospel Music Association spineless on homosexuality
http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/gospel-music-association-spineless-on-homosexuality/
September 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Paula White and the Day of Atonement Blasphemy!
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/09/day-of-atonemen.html
I would love to see Chris Lyons to comment on this here on the site
September 18th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Serious question….what is the truth about Henry Neouwn? I have not read his works but at the Christian 501c I work at we had a 1 day spiritual retreat a couple of weeks ago. One of my co-workers dad led the day. Essentially he just talked about how God speaks to us all in different ways…..His Word, music, prayer, journaling, etc. I come from a very conservative background and there was nothing weird or mystical.
Our dear OMD over at Lighthouse Trails published an article and it was linked at Slice of Looniness today.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/nouwenbuddhism.htm
I noticed he attributed very few of his claims….and I have seen enough of his false claims against Warren to know he is not above lying. Any help?
September 18th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I watched the entire clip of Ravi and he gave a great and thoughtful answer to whether a gay person can live a committed Christian life and practice their same sex attraction. Ravi happened to mention that Neuown admitted near his death that he had those attractions but sacrificed them for Christ.
Ravi said he was a great saint I guess referring to his life of self discipline and of course that is what they picked up on. I have noticed Ingrid’s verbiage continues to be sarcastic and demeaning as she referred to thos who life Ravi as “genuflecting” before him. (among other things she says it’s time to stop the idolatry of talented men)
She’s become good for amusement.
September 19th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
rick and john b
what do you think of the
Paula White and the Day of Atonement Blasphemy!
http://www.alittleleaven.com/2008/09/day-of-atonemen.html
p.s.
I would love to see Chris Lyons to comment on this here in a article on the site
September 19th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
http://mp3.olivetreeviews.org/OTM2008_09_13A.mp3
Jan Markell radio show on
the Death of Discernment
September 19th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
It’s gotten to the point like commenting on Fred Phelps. Anyone who agrees with White is beyond reasoning, and anyone who know better needs no post.
September 19th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
rick what do you think of
http://mp3.olivetreeviews.org/OTM2008_09_13A.mp3
September 19th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
J - I don’t know that we’ve ever commented on or defended Paula White (or if we should have). We’re not an ODM, and I’m not familiar any unfair attacks against her, so why should we comment?
September 19th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
have ya’ll seen the Tripp rant over on Camp’s blog?
what a sanctimonious blowhard. Seriously
September 19th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Yea, someone using my name was commenting over there as well. I’ll investigate soon.