CRN.Info and Analysis

I woke up this morning to this. I have to say it wasn’t the best thought as I sipped my extra dry cappuccino at Pete’s Coffee and Tea. I actually began to feel incredibly sorry for the many people who read this and will actually believe it. I mean, imagine walking through life wondering if the purpose God has for you is a good one, or one that will lead to total destruction. How would that change how we live… in complete and udder fear of the future. I mean, life becomes one big turn of the dice. Will God give me a good purpose in life, or will He not?

You see, this is the God of illogical predestination. He randomly chooses some to have a good purpose in life, and randomly chooses some who will not. And, you will / can never know which one he will choose for you. We are simply pawns on some divine chess board.

Now, we may not have the ideal life by human standards. I am sure that Jim Elliot was not planning on being speared to death, leaving his family behind at such a young age. But was his purpose still good? Sure. Hundreds came to the faith. And, if you ask Elisabeth Elliot if she has any regrets over the situation, she would probably tell you the same. His life had a beautiful purpose. Pastor Martin Luther King Jr. was probably not planning on being assassinated. But the good and blessed purpose of His life has left ripples in eternity. For those that follow the Lord, there is a great purpose for our lives (and Rick Warren would agree that following God is the prerequisite for having a good purpose in life).

If course, the ironic thing is that most of the people who would hold to this view probably believe that they all have a good purpose in life. This poster and ideology would only apply to anyone other than themselves and their pack of Christian friends.

While it’s somewhat old news (at least to many of the writers here), Ray Comfort has the dubious distinction, not only of speaking at an upcoming Health & Wealth Gospel conference, and not only of being a royal jerk in his actual witness (i.e. the way he treats the other street performers at Surf City’s Pier Plaza), but today one of his old bits of insanity received a dubious distinction:

It made the front-page of FARK, probably the only news-blog I read with any regularity (though I try to avoid many of the comments threads, which are long, nasty and brutish, to be nice). It was also FARK that picked up Ingrid’s attack on VeggieTales a couple years back that brought SoL briefly (and sadly) into the secular public eye.

Now it’s Ray Comfort and his banana act.

Which is pitiful.

It seems that an atheist site took hold of this and ran with it, and it’s been posted to FARK (which has also been demonstrated to be the #1 source for comedy writers of late-night TV and talk radio). So, don’t be surprised if this shows up in embarrassing places in the coming week or so. With some luck or providence, there will be better things out there to make fun of.

Here’s the running commentary on FARK on the article in question. To be clear, though, I don’t endorse anything that you’re likely to find there - it was already pretty bad 10 comments in - so proceed with caution.

—UPDATE 8:00 a.m. 7/3—

After sleeping, praying and reflecting on it, I should not have submitted this article in the shape that it’s in.  The key message I was trying to get across -

that when we purposely engage the public square, we should do so in ways that are not offensive (even though the message of the gospel may bring offense) or pathetic

- was completely muddled and ill-thought-out in its presentation.  A lot more thought and prayer should have been engaged before hitting ’submit’.  However, since we do not try to cover up mistakes here by deleting things and pretending they didn’t happen, please feel free to stop by and say “Chris, you should have been much more considerate and reflective before hitting ’submit’” because, if you were to say this, you would be correct.

what happens when your poster boys for truth, doctrine and all that is good in the world begin to live a purpose driven life? Well, you have “no choice but to issue this warning to the body of Christ” [link added] Looks like Greg Laurie is joining forces with Rick Warren, and the ODMs are not too happy. This is one crazy case of guilt by association.

story submitted on our submissions page by Richard Abanes

Look, I am fine if you have legitimate beef with Rick Warren’s programs. I am fine if you express realistic frustration over realistic issues with Purpose Driven. The problem is, half of the stuff on the internet from the ODMs is poorly supported, or over exaggerated. There is very little that actually has strong content against Warren. Here is part 5 of a series called “Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven“, as if it were one or the other. The title immediately told me where this author, Berit Kjos, was going. Here is just on example of the logic that these guys are using.

“Begin by assessing your gifts and abilities. Take a long, honest look at what you are good at and what you’re not good at. Ask other people. Paul advised, ‘Try to have a sane estimate of your capabilities.’ [Romans 12:3b, The Message] Make a list. Ask other people for their candid opinion…. Spiritual gifts and natural abilities are always confirmed by others.” [4, page 250]

They are? What if your spiritual gift has nothing to do with your natural talents or personal preferences? What if God gave you gifts that would show His exceeding greatness, not yours? In stark contrast to Pastor Warren’s view of spiritual gifts, the apostle Paul said,
[I Cor 2:1-5]
Did you hear that? God uses weak but faithful believers who will demonstrate His power, not their own talents. In fact, our own talents are often the opposite of our spiritual gifts. History shows us how some of God’s most powerful messengers served in total weakness, all the more demonstrating the amazing power of the Holy Spirit. Now as then, many of His servants come to Him as quiet, shy introverts who would fear speaking their name in a group and would shudder at the improbable thought of ever speaking in front of a group.

Wait, where did Warren say that your gifts are given to demonstrate your own ability and power? Where did Warren say that all abilities need to show how great you are? Oh wait, he didn’t. Nor did he say that your spiritual gifts and natural abilities have anything to do with each other, besides that fact that they are both confirmed in community. I am amazed how many times the ODMs will do this! Rick Warren says X, but they go on attacking Y — when he never even said Y! I am not up to speed in all of my logic rhetoric, but this sounds like a straw man argument. Kojos is attacking a premise that Rick Warren never stated.

He goes on to misrepresent Saddleback’s SHAPE assessment (which I actually think it is on the few useful tools in the PD program to help people discover how God has made them). Kojos again writes about Warren blurring the lines between natural abilities and spiritual gifts. He connects the A in Shape (discovering your “abilities”) with the S (discovering your “spiritual gifts”). The fact that Warren puts them in two separate categories says a lot. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that they are different, but Kojos insists that natural abilities and spiritual gifts are synonymous in Warren’s mind. Here is one example from his article.

“Just start serving, experimenting with different ministries and then you’ll discover your gifts,” said Pastor Warren in The Purpose-Driven Life. “…I urge you never to stop experimenting…. I know a woman in her nineties who runs and wins 10K races and didn’t discover that she enjoyed running until she was seventy-eight!” [4, page 251]

So she discovered that she enjoys running races. But what does a new hobby or physical exercise have to do with discovering spiritual gifts? Pastor Warren’s next statement doesn’t help answer that question:

So, I looked up that excerpt in PD Life. The first part of the quote was in the first paragraph on page 251, the last two were in another. Plus, he failed to quote this line right before the story of the seventy-eight year old biker

I have met many people who have discovered hidden talents in their seventies and eighties. [emphasis mine]

Again, Kjos twists the quote to seem like Warren is saying that biking is spome type of spitritual gift. Warren makes it clear when he is talking about spiritual gifts, and when he is talking about natural abilities. And Warren’s whole premise for people finding their abilities is so they can use them for the glory of God. It’s ironic that so many ODMs accuse Warren of only using sections of verses to fit his agenda.

Again, I am not a Rick Warren apologist. But, if you are going to attack someone on an international scale in the name of God, please do so with some degree of legitimacy. I am tired of people using isegesis when “discerning” other people’s ministry. They come with a preconceived premise, and then extract anything they possibly can to support their claims.

**UPDATE**

Kjos is not a dude.

That’s it folks! Look no further for the reason why we all in decline. According to this slice post, from this ABC news story, the problem is hygiene! Now why didn’t I think of that?! All these kids coming into our churches, wearing the latest fashions of tattered jeans and bed head - they just need a good shower! Maybe if we had Colgate come and do a 45 minute presentation in all of our churches, we would be rid of the slobbery. Better yet, we can have the ushers hand out disposable toothbrushes at the door. And maybe we can get people back into those polyester three-piece suits again! Remember… the Lord looks at the hygiene, the clothing style and how well you are able to color coordinate your clothing.

**this post contains many facetious statements. While I do believe that our society is becoming more brash, rude and crude, I have no clue how that corresponds to hygiene, clothing choice and how those two affect the current state of the church.

Good news for all our Dispensationalist friends out there. This service described in this article promises to make your post-rapture communication a little bit easier. In addition to sending your left behind family and friends emails letting them know that they have indeed missed out on their chance to avoid the Tribulation, this site will take care of all that pesky post-Rapture financial paperwork.

Now if we could only come up with a way to use all those beans in our basement we bought before Y2K…

Comments on CRN.info have recently gotten a little frustrating for many of us. I believe that heads bashing against random hard surfaces have been brought up repeatedly. If you aren’t familiar with it on this site, then I’m sure you can relate at some point in your life.

You see, communication is difficult. Not only does everybody have to agree on what words and symbols mean, but they have to understand concepts and ideas that are often larger than any word. This especially causes problems when we try to label a particular concept or idea with a single word.

All of this was made humorously obvious to me this evening at dinner. My wife and eldest daughter (she’s only 3) had chicken noodle soup. My daughter dribbled, as small children are inclined to do, and so my wife firmly reminded her to lean over her bowl as she ate. My daughter immediately and repeatedly responded, “No, lean over my SOUP.”

Please remember, you are eating soup here, but it’s served in a bowl.

When i first read this, I thought to myself “this has to be a joke.” But then I realized what website i was on. I am not doubting that this method of evangelism might work. But, it seems like just making friends with every non-believer that you meet would be a much more effective tactic. I am getting tired of hearing about these evangelistic methods that don’t require a relationship with the outsider. Especially when they include some type of statement like this in the explanation

So, let’s say you are in the mall. If you are like me, the security guards in your local mall know you by sight. As soon as you step foot into the mall, an APB goes out over security radios. “Red alert! We have a bogey inbound! That preacher is back! Keep an eye on him! We don’t want this subversive influencing the youths who frequent our mall!” source

Really? Does this guy really believe that the college freshman rent-a-cop in the retail outlets is concerned about the indoctrination of teenage mall rats? When will we stop trying to do evangelism like this? It’s like we want to help pull people out of the miry pit without getting the mud on our clothes. If having a bait and switch fake cell phone conversation is the best evangelistic tactic we got, something is wrong in Christendom.

In the controversial post below, Chris Lyons pointed out how Ingrid was so encouraged by a listener who wraps and sells flowers for a cult in the evening. We get the full story in this article later, that this man was unable to find work and was forced to do this job at night for the Moonies.

My first thought was “I wonder if she would extend the same grace to a purpose driven pastor that was unable to pay the bills and took this job.” I could see the headlines now… “purpose driven pastor supports cult practices.” I really think this is a matter of showing grace where you want to, and upholding the law where you want to. It is acceptable for a believer to work for a cult until they can get a full time job, but Rick Warren can’t partner with secular organizations to help eradicate human poverty. No one is saying that it is wrong for this guy to enjoy VYC America’s programming –not any more wrong than a Buddhist monk enjoying the teachings of Rob Bell.

A year ago, Brian Gordon, the well-known new age energy coach, cited some writings of Erwin McManus on his blog. He definitely tweaked McManus’ words to fit his own ideas and philosophies in the process. Well, the ODMs went nuts over this! They went on and on about how this new-aged energy coach has similar theologies as McManus, and how he was really teaching unbiblical energy philosophies. All of it could not be further from the truth. In fact, when Gordon read what the ODMs were writing, he immediately contacted McManus, ashamed of the negative publicity he had brought him.

It’s amazing how certain groups are unable to see past their own logical processes. For example, if you follow the link in the original article to the VYC America webpage, you will find a video that says

Music Till Dawn will provide a relaxing contemplative atmosphere, where the Holy Spirit can speak to quieted hearts

relaxing contemplative atmosphere? If that was on Doug Pagitt’s website, he would be speared to death by the ODMs for it. There would be all types of arguments as to why we shouldn’t have contemplative prayer where God speaks to us individually. Sola Scriptura! But, somehow contemplative spirituality is ok for VYC America. I am just wondering when the double standard is going to be recognized.

EXTRA! EXTRA! Read all about it! Rick Warren Denies the Gospel! At least that is what CRN said — and once again they failed to deliver. I laughed out loud when I saw the diagram on the page, explaining exactly how Warren has denied the gospel.

If you have to create such a complex diagram to prove that someone denies the gospel, you are really stretching it. This is one crazy witch hunt we have going on! So, I decided to make some of my own conclusions in life.

* Ken Silva reads books
* books are made from paper
* paper comes from trees
* trees come from the earth
* New-Agers worship the earth
* NEW HEADLINE: “KEN SILVA SUPPORTS NEW AGE WORSHIP!”

* CRN is on the internet
* Al Gore created the internet
* Al Gore supports abortions
* NEW HEADLINE: “CRN SUPPORTS ABORTION!”

Man, oh man… I could go on all day! I guess if you want to make something true, you will stretch all rules of logic to make it so.