CRN.Info and Analysis

When I checked Slice this morning, I was stunned to hear that Granger Church had flipped the audience the bird during their easter service. This was something that I had to see for myself, so I checked out the video. I was a little disappointed, as I really was in need of some good drama to jump start my day.

The video in question was simply a new fad in YouTube videos, where lyrics to a song are drawn on fingers and then shown moving with the music. In this case, the word “make” was written on the middle finger, and was raised when the word was sung. This was not the performer “giving fellow Christians, and the Lord, the finger”, as Ingrid would suggest. It would be very hard to watch that video think that the intent was to flip the audience off.

Now, could Granger Church have used some tact in making this art piece? Certainly. At some point in rehearsals, someone should have said “hey, someone might get confused with the middle finger being held up alone.” But for Ingrid to say this is obscene, and assume that they were doing this to flip the audience off, is rediculous. I sometimes wonder how much time the ODMs spend poking around on the internet to find one headline that will make them the best Christian tabloid of the day. There is a big difference between having the spirit of discernment, and getting up in everyone’s business.

Oh, and she never mentioned the words of the pastor following the art piece… “I have good news, Jesus Christ is alive, now and forever more, the crucified on has risen from the grave, and he has ascended to the right hand of God, and he is the sovereign king and lord of all who live and all who have ever lived. He is worthy of our praise.” Funny thing… never heard about his extremely biblical sermon from that morning on Slice.

That’s it folks! Look no further for the reason why we all in decline. According to this slice post, from this ABC news story, the problem is hygiene! Now why didn’t I think of that?! All these kids coming into our churches, wearing the latest fashions of tattered jeans and bed head - they just need a good shower! Maybe if we had Colgate come and do a 45 minute presentation in all of our churches, we would be rid of the slobbery. Better yet, we can have the ushers hand out disposable toothbrushes at the door. And maybe we can get people back into those polyester three-piece suits again! Remember… the Lord looks at the hygiene, the clothing style and how well you are able to color coordinate your clothing.

**this post contains many facetious statements. While I do believe that our society is becoming more brash, rude and crude, I have no clue how that corresponds to hygiene, clothing choice and how those two affect the current state of the church.

I guess it’s time for the weekly question about Mark Driscoll: Do the ODM’s love him or hate him this week?

[spins the wheel]

Love Mark - Hate Mark - Like Mark - Hate Mark - Like Mark …

…

-Hate Mark-

Oops! Guess it’s his time to toss Mark in the barrel. Why, you might ask? Let’s start with the video below, part of the promotion for a one-night appearance in Sydney, Australia called Burn Your Plastic Jesus. subtitled “Mark Driscoll takes a blow-torch to the 21st century Jesus, and rediscovers the Jesus of the New Testament”.

Probably the quote that tipped it over the edge was the one the held a mirror to a particular type of Christian, of which discernments are a key subset -

Ask the average person, walking down the street, what they think of Jesus, and they will immediately identify him with someone who is religious, loves rules, is unpleasant, unkind, unhelpful. Someone they do not want to be with. Someone they do not want to be like.

Does that sound like the most accurate understanding of Jesus? In no way.

When Jesus was on the earth, he called sinners to repent of sin, go find your pants, stop drinking, get a job, move out of your parents’ house, grow up… He said those sorts of things and people loved him for it.

Religious people hated him the most. He told them to repent of their religion. Stop being so prideful. Stop being so self-righteous, so judgmental, so holier-than-thou. The result is that they despised, opposed and ultimately murdered him.

This may shock you - Jesus is as opposed to ‘religion’ as he is to sin…

Ah - no need to wonder anymore why the teeth were set to ‘gnash’ in ‘discernment-ville’ today.

Apparently, Mark’s public message in Australia, which partly concludes (if the advertisement is correct) that Jesus wants to save Christians in addition to the lost, isn’t going to cut the mustard because he is disrespectful of the plastic, pop-culture “Jesus”, represented by the kitschy bobble-head represented on the page. Or possibly that he describes religious folk as being just as bad as sinners. The mysterious “editor” doesn’t let us know.

And so whose spiritual advice does the anonymous discerner give regarding Driscoll ? Jesus? James? Peter? John? Paul? Nope - a few steps above those (though still below Spurgeon) - Christian mystic A. W. Tozer:

Some preachers have such a phobia for repetition and such an unnatural fear of the familiar that they are forever straining after the odd and the startling… We dare not impugn the honesty or the sincerity of the men who thus flap their short wings so rapidly in an effort to take off into the wild blue yonder, but we do deplore their attitudes.

Ah, poor Mark. He didn’t get the ODM playbook on the only proper ways to preach. I just wish these guys would make up their minds about Driscoll - is he OK or not? Will they not discern for the masses?

Or - have the sheep already heard the echo of the master’s voice in his under-shepherd from Seattle and recognized the baying of the wolves for what it is?

I have been reading about how the SBC is slowly becoming catholic for a while now. And, anyone who is a part of the convention knows that this is far from reality. There is a lot you can say about the SBC: irrelevancy to world around it, unbiblical guidelines for ministry, use of funds — all that to say, I am not one who always tows the party line. However, this connection that Watcher’s Lamp makes is strange to me.

They make the comparison between the catholic practices of the stations of the cross and the prayer journey with signs and symbols that will be taking place at the Convention this year. First off, let me say that the practice is very similar. It seems (from the two sentences provided) that participants will go from station to station, be reminded of an aspect of God with a symbol, and stop to pray. How horrible could that be? In either case, no one is praying to the icons or symbols. Nor is anyone confusing Catholic theology with that of SBC protestantism. I am sure it will be a series of pictures from the 10/40 window, baptist churches, and various other images that will remind pastors to repent, give thanksgiving, and pray for the needs of the world.

Why is it that we have such a hard time with symbols and icons in the Christian faith. I mean, it seems like Jesus was constantly using images and symbols when he spoke. Everything from mustard seeds to a lost coin became iconic for who we are to become, and how we are to live. Heck, I don’t think that anyone would argue that we should stop taking communion in remembrance of our Lord because the Catholics have created transubstantiation. I think Jesus understood that so much of our learning process is visual, not just auditory. If he set up symbols and icons to remind us of the truths of God, why shouldn’t we? Or are we dismissing it simply because the Catholics came up with it first?

[UPDATE: Please see the notes at the bottom of this post, as Ingrid has removed the referenced article and apologized for her actions.]

Ingrid pulls out her amazing voo-doo magic / discernment once again in the Cast of the Baffling Beauty. Cornerstone Church in Chandler, AZ is having a Mother’s Day service that celebrates the image of God in our mothers. Here is a clip from their advertisement

In our culture, image is everything. This Mother’s Day at Cornerstone, we’re celebrating a different image though. We’re celebrating the image of God that has been placed in our moms and women. We’ll discover the fullness of the image of God and how we can carry that image to a world that needs it! Women and men alike, come ready for the best Mother’s Day you’ve had!

So, they are obviously not glorifying the physical beauty of mothers and women. They are attempting to celebrate the heart and image of God within the female soul. As a guest speaker, they will be having Hilary Griffith Peele, the former Miss Arizona and 2007 contestant in the Miss America pageant, speak for their special day. Well, this obviously has Ingrid’s spidey-sense tingling. She writes the following

So the mother who is bombarded with the world’s expectations of beauty must now come to church on Sunday and be, well, bombarded by the world’s expectation of beauty. Rather than find an elderly saint who has walked with God for 50 or more years to speak to women about what really matters before God, they get a 22-year-old beauty pageant contestant so women of every age and circumstance will be sent the message that real beauty lessons should come from a woman who is willing to parade across a stage in a bikini in front of men to be judged like a piece of meat.

I love how Ingrid absolutely loves to look solely at the externals. There is nothing in the way of what she will be speaking on, her theology, her credentials, etc. It’s all about her body and how she has flaunted herself like a piece of meat. Ingrid has probably never heard Ms. Peele speak, and probably not done the research to find out what she stands for. She just assumes that a 50 year-old woman is more qualified than a younger women, just becasue of a hobby that they younger has (she also seems to imply that a less-attractive 50 year-old woman is best).

I find it interesting that Ingrid doesn’t put this up in her article, found on the same website from the first quote

She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Arizona State University in December 2007 with a degree in Journalism and Mass Communication. She is currently an on-air personality at KGCB Radio Shine 90.9 FM, where she hosts a Christian music program weekdays from 10 a.m. to noon. Hilary lives in Glendale with her husband, Justin, whom she married in February 2008.

So, we aren’t talking about some blonde twit with nothing to say. This is an educated woman, serving in a Christian media outlet. Maybe Ingrid is just upset because Peele’s show gets higher ratings?

______________

UPDATE: Ms. Peele has graciously replied to Ingrid and our article (please see her comment below from 2008/05/11 at 12:47 AM). With even more context provided, it will be interesting to see if Ingrid retracts her diatribe. -Chris L
______________

UPDATE: Ingrid has removed her original post regarding Ms. Peele’s appearance at Cornerstone Church, and has issued an apology. While it is not our policy to delete articles as if they had never happened, I am updating the article (both here and in the body) to recognize Ingrid’s apology and repentance in this matter. Thank you, Ingrid. -Chris L

“While some “Christian” pastors have slipped their Biblical moorings and are now apologizing for opposing abortion, men like Barak Obama are leading the charge to against pro-life legislation.”

This was the opening line in the post entitled It’s a Mad World, at CRN this morning.

It was followed with the statement

Is it really wrong and “Un-Christian” of Christians to call abortion a sin

So, I followed the link to a little leaven where they asked

Is the church wrong and judgmental for claiming that abortion and homosexuality are sins and contending against them?

Wow! A church that claims it is judgmental to call abortion and homosexualty a sin? A church that says it is wrong to call homosexuality a sin!? Where would this be? Well, it doesn’t exist. Here is the original news story and a few quotes that CRN or A Little Leaven will probably not want you to read

Georgia Baptist pastor who pledged to apologize to gays, women seeking abortions, and couples who live together outside marriage…

His apology was not limited to the aforementioned groups but was directed to those in the secular world that drive by churches each day and never consider visiting because of the judgmental posture…

Lee did not yield ground on his conservative beliefs but said the Church’s established methods of judging others for their shortcomings obviously has not worked. Driving people away from Christ is not an effective way of bringing them to Him, he said through a variety of illustrations….

“I am 37 years old and I believe the Bible is 100 percent truth without error. But the Bible tells us we are to judge our own lives and not the lives of those outside the faith”

And while I firmly believe that Romans 1 is true in its discussion of homosexuality I know that it is much easier to condemn when you do not know those in that lifestyle.

So, this would have been a big, huge, juicy story… if it were actually true. Apologizing for how we have treated these people is not the same as apologizing for what scripture has to say about their lifestyle and choices. I find it very ironic that Christians run to the media for an apology when someone treats them bad, but we are unapologetic for gay bashing, abortion clinic vandalism and arsons, and let’s not mention gadhatesfags.com. Don’t see too much outrage over how we have treated those that need Christ the most.

BTW… I LOVE how they had to drag Barack into the equation. Wouldn’t be a good ODM article without blaming some politicians for where the church has fallen short in affecting society.

Sometimes no commentary is needed to illustrate how the ODM’s have the unique ability to twist “news” to fit their agenda.

First from A Little Leaven comes the story of the sorry church

Is the church wrong and judgmental for claiming that abortion and homosexuality are sins and contending against them? Pastor Richard Mark Lee of the Family Church in Sugar Hill, Georgia thinks so. What did he do about it? He apologized to the unchurched for being judgmental during a highly publicized church service.

We think that Pastor Richard should also apologize on behalf of God for destroying the earth by flood because of men’s wickedness, destroying Sodom and Gomorah, plaguing the Egyptians and killing their first born, destroying Korah and those who followed him, killing everyone in Jericho, and killing the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel for their false religion.

And now from the Pastor, Richard Mark Lee, of Sugar Hill Church

“For me, I cannot stand in front of God and tell Him that I did nothing to reverse that perception. It’s important to know that the 18-28 year-olds are not against Christ; in fact, they tell pollsters that they have fond feelings for Him and believe in God. But the bottom line is that the Church is still perceived as judgmental, homophobic, and irrelevant” rather than for our love for them.

“I am 37 years old and I believe the Bible is 100 percent truth without error. But the Bible tells us we are to judge our own lives and not the lives of those outside the faith.

“Today I want to apologize to our community for getting in the way of Jesus. He really is awesome and you’d like Him, even though you may not like those in the Church.”

Lee addressed a variety of misperceptions the Church has given to unbelievers in an increasingly non-Christian society.

“I have picketed abortion clinics, I’ve held the signs and banners and done all those things. I am pro-life but I regret being involved in those things. I am sorry for having a bumper sticker mentality.

“If you have had an abortion recently or even several years ago, I want you to know that I do not sit in judgment of you today. I am sorry if you have sensed a spirit of judgment in the way I presented myself and the gospel.”

Then he addressed the gay issue and individuals in the Church who “have a pharisaical mindset,” apologizing for the way some Christians “have demonstrated prejudice, bigotry, or a hateful attitude.

“We are sorry for acting like the head of the body of Christ rather than like a part of that body. We are sorry for driving you out of church; that is not of God. “I have apologized to God and now I am apologizing to you.

“In my day of arrogance I have laughed at my share of gay jokes but I now understand that participating in such activity does color the way you view people. You can’t avoid it. And while I firmly believe that Romans 1 is true in its discussion of homosexuality I know that it is much easier to condemn when you do not know those in that lifestyle.

“I have recently renewed an acquaintance with an individual who is homosexual and I have come to the realization that I cannot engage in jokes which demean the very person I am trying to reach.

“We have used trite phrases such as ‘love the sinner but hate the sin’ in these instances but we should really love the sinner and hate our own sin. The Bible teaches that love does not find fault, but the hard truth is that the world has seen that we do not love those who are different from us.

“Time and again, Jesus’ words challenged the religious establishment. He taught us to leave the 99 and go after the lost one. But we have not followed that teaching very well and have actually pushed people further away from church.

“In John 4:18 we read that ‘perfect love drives out fear.’ I apologize for driving you out of the church and making the church a place that you fear. While the Bible teaches that we should all have a reverential fear of God, we should not fear those who sit in the pews. I make this apology and genuinely ask you to forgive me.”

Read the rest of the story here.

Much has been said here about the misuse of logic, vitriol, over the top hyperbole, and downright misinformation of the ODM’s.  Quite frankly it has been well deserved and accurate.

Many times a post or comment has been written that makes comparisons between ODM’s and clanging cymbals, pharisees, legalists, and blockers of doors.  Again well deserved and accurate.

A little while back Joe Martino wrote a post about “Fruit”and said that this is the litmus test for whether or not he’s going to believe what you are saying.  He essentially said that all the bible verses in the world aren’t going to convince him if you don’t have the evidence of “fruit” in your life.  Predictabley the ODM’s swooped in and accused Joe of denying the Bible.  Which, quite honestly, only reinforced the point Joe was making.

So as a new contributor here I wanted to deal with a question that I have been rolling around in my mind for months.

Do the watch-doggies have Joy?

I mean this as a serious question. My first encounter with an ODM, and what eventually led me to .info, was when Ken Silva commented on a friends blog.  The furthest thing from my mind was”That guy has the joy of the Lord”. This was further reinforced when I was introduced to Ingrid, Team Pyro, Dwayna, and a whole slew of commenter’s.  Where is the Joy?

side note: Before the ol’ “You do it too” is thrown out I would encourage anyone to visit the personal blogs of the contributors of this site. We have it. I promise you!

Again this is a serious question. When the world visits your blogs is the Joy you have in the Lord evident? Furthermore; I would ask that in your passion to defend the Lord have you considered what your representation of the Lord looks like to the world? 

Joyful?  Maybe! But I certainly don’t see it.

I think that CRN is having a mild case of schizophrenia. They recently posted an article on the danger of moralism. Upon reading it, I was first frustrated with this quote from MacArthur

So on the one hand, we are called to the exposition of scripture, explaining the Bible verse by verse, book by book.

Um, where exactly are we called to expository preaching of scripture, going line by line through the book? But I digress. The rest of the quote is great, discussing the dangers of legislating morality through the government. People are saved and changed by the Holy Spirit, not George W Bush. The article ends with this paragraph

And in a related issue here is the link to a message by Phil Johnson that “addresses the controversy that exists between the ministry of Dr. John MacArthur and that of Dr. James Dobson (Focus on the Family), on the issue of preaching the gospel to change the wickedness of man versus using political legislation to accomplish that end.”

Yes, you are reading this right… from the website that calls for petitions against gay marriage, calling your senator to have the ten commandments put back into court houses, berating politicians for not legislating the scriptures, comes this. So which is it CRN? Are we supposed to flee from the dangers of legislating morality? Or are we supposed to get a petition going to make sure that Genesis is the only creation theory taught in schools? Or maybe we just change our views every time Johnny Mac opens his mouth.

Like Ingrid, I’m not a HM fan, all be it for different reasons. I’m not a fan of “pop” music in general.

Also, like Ingrid, I dislike celebrities throwing out phrases like “I do it all for Jesus”. It seems like a cliche and not very thought out or meaningful.

So I watched the video Ingrid posted and I was a little disappointed. I was kind of hoping it would be worldly. However, there is no crotch grabbing, no dirty dancing, no nothing. It is some girl jumping around to music and not in a provocative outfit or in a provocative style. You can see for yourself the “worldliness”:

As I read Ingrid’s article, I wondered what exactly her definition of worldliness is? For instance, I have had to work late for the past two weeks because we have a big project due. My non-believer boss has publicly thanked me. Is that worldly, to be recognized by a non believer for hard work?

What if I got up at the next company meeting and gave a big speech in front of thousands of fellow employees and I got a standing ovation? Is that worldly?

What if I was actually skilled enough at a sport, say baseball. Two out, bottom of the ninth, bases loaded. I hit the home run and thousands cheer me. Is that worldly?

Am I missing something here?