Seems that the bi-monthly topic of homosexuality has come up again. Interestingly, last week’s sermon topic at my own church was specifically on this topic, with an approach likely to tick off both extremes of the spectrum on the issue.
You can listen here (sorry for the streaming link - I don’t have a downloadable one, though you can get it through iTunes here).
“While some “Christian” pastors have slipped their Biblical moorings and are now apologizing for opposing abortion, men like Barak Obama are leading the charge to against pro-life legislation.”
This was the opening line in the post entitled It’s a Mad World, at CRN this morning.
It was followed with the statement
Is it really wrong and “Un-Christian” of Christians to call abortion a sin
So, I followed the link to a little leaven where they asked
Is the church wrong and judgmental for claiming that abortion and homosexuality are sins and contending against them?
Wow! A church that claims it is judgmental to call abortion and homosexualty a sin? A church that says it is wrong to call homosexuality a sin!? Where would this be? Well, it doesn’t exist. Here is the original news story and a few quotes that CRN or A Little Leaven will probably not want you to read
Georgia Baptist pastor who pledged to apologize to gays, women seeking abortions, and couples who live together outside marriage…
His apology was not limited to the aforementioned groups but was directed to those in the secular world that drive by churches each day and never consider visiting because of the judgmental posture…
Lee did not yield ground on his conservative beliefs but said the Church’s established methods of judging others for their shortcomings obviously has not worked. Driving people away from Christ is not an effective way of bringing them to Him, he said through a variety of illustrations….
“I am 37 years old and I believe the Bible is 100 percent truth without error. But the Bible tells us we are to judge our own lives and not the lives of those outside the faith”
And while I firmly believe that Romans 1 is true in its discussion of homosexuality I know that it is much easier to condemn when you do not know those in that lifestyle.
So, this would have been a big, huge, juicy story… if it were actually true. Apologizing for how we have treated these people is not the same as apologizing for what scripture has to say about their lifestyle and choices. I find it very ironic that Christians run to the media for an apology when someone treats them bad, but we are unapologetic for gay bashing, abortion clinic vandalism and arsons, and let’s not mention gadhatesfags.com. Don’t see too much outrage over how we have treated those that need Christ the most.
BTW… I LOVE how they had to drag Barack into the equation. Wouldn’t be a good ODM article without blaming some politicians for where the church has fallen short in affecting society.
Sometimes no commentary is needed to illustrate how the ODM’s have the unique ability to twist “news” to fit their agenda.
First from A Little Leaven comes the story of the sorry church
Is the church wrong and judgmental for claiming that abortion and homosexuality are sins and contending against them? Pastor Richard Mark Lee of the Family Church in Sugar Hill, Georgia thinks so. What did he do about it? He apologized to the unchurched for being judgmental during a highly publicized church service.
We think that Pastor Richard should also apologize on behalf of God for destroying the earth by flood because of men’s wickedness, destroying Sodom and Gomorah, plaguing the Egyptians and killing their first born, destroying Korah and those who followed him, killing everyone in Jericho, and killing the prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel for their false religion.
And now from the Pastor, Richard Mark Lee, of Sugar Hill Church
“For me, I cannot stand in front of God and tell Him that I did nothing to reverse that perception. It’s important to know that the 18-28 year-olds are not against Christ; in fact, they tell pollsters that they have fond feelings for Him and believe in God. But the bottom line is that the Church is still perceived as judgmental, homophobic, and irrelevant” rather than for our love for them.
“I am 37 years old and I believe the Bible is 100 percent truth without error. But the Bible tells us we are to judge our own lives and not the lives of those outside the faith.
“Today I want to apologize to our community for getting in the way of Jesus. He really is awesome and you’d like Him, even though you may not like those in the Church.”
Lee addressed a variety of misperceptions the Church has given to unbelievers in an increasingly non-Christian society.
“I have picketed abortion clinics, I’ve held the signs and banners and done all those things. I am pro-life but I regret being involved in those things. I am sorry for having a bumper sticker mentality.
“If you have had an abortion recently or even several years ago, I want you to know that I do not sit in judgment of you today. I am sorry if you have sensed a spirit of judgment in the way I presented myself and the gospel.”
Then he addressed the gay issue and individuals in the Church who “have a pharisaical mindset,” apologizing for the way some Christians “have demonstrated prejudice, bigotry, or a hateful attitude.
“We are sorry for acting like the head of the body of Christ rather than like a part of that body. We are sorry for driving you out of church; that is not of God. “I have apologized to God and now I am apologizing to you.
“In my day of arrogance I have laughed at my share of gay jokes but I now understand that participating in such activity does color the way you view people. You can’t avoid it. And while I firmly believe that Romans 1 is true in its discussion of homosexuality I know that it is much easier to condemn when you do not know those in that lifestyle.
“I have recently renewed an acquaintance with an individual who is homosexual and I have come to the realization that I cannot engage in jokes which demean the very person I am trying to reach.
“We have used trite phrases such as ‘love the sinner but hate the sin’ in these instances but we should really love the sinner and hate our own sin. The Bible teaches that love does not find fault, but the hard truth is that the world has seen that we do not love those who are different from us.
“Time and again, Jesus’ words challenged the religious establishment. He taught us to leave the 99 and go after the lost one. But we have not followed that teaching very well and have actually pushed people further away from church.
“In John 4:18 we read that ‘perfect love drives out fear.’ I apologize for driving you out of the church and making the church a place that you fear. While the Bible teaches that we should all have a reverential fear of God, we should not fear those who sit in the pews. I make this apology and genuinely ask you to forgive me.”
Read the rest of the story here.
Wait till you read this! Christians are actually loving sinners, serving them, and developing relationships with GAYS! And not just Christians… MEGA CHURCH CHRISTIANS! Who do they think they are–Jesus?
In the recent post The Sexuality Obsession, there has been a heated debate over the issue of a Christian’s role in legislating morality. Ingrid wrote
I’m amazed at those who make the statement that you can’t legislate morality. Someone’s morality is always legislated, the question is always, whose? Right now the morality of the child-killers has been codified into law. We have 50 million dead babies because of this. Chattel slavery was the morality codified into law here in the United States and in Great Britain. It took a William Wilberforce, a Christian, to spearheaded moral opposition that changed the law (politics, Henry) to free blacks in England and a civil war to end it here in America where Christians had made peace with slavery.
All I want to say is that fighting for basic rights that all humanity should have (life, freedom, food, etc.) is one thing. Fighting for all humanity to act as we would like them to is a whole other ballgame. Calling for humans to not be sold as property is not the same as calling for everyone to have sex as we would like them to. Ending the genocide in Europe is not the same as fighting for our morals to be made laws in America. We Christians in the United States fight so hard for our moral freedom. But, as soon as someone else wants to exercise their moral freedom, not even asking for us to curb our beliefs, we react with vicious words and actions.
Look, I believe the scriptures. I believe that homosexuality is a destructive and ultimately godless lifestyle. I believe that having sex inside the context of heterosexual marriage is the only acceptable context for it. I believe that God longs for people to honor His instructions for sexual practices. However, I also believe that adultery is biblically wrong. I believe that marriage is exclusively between one man and one woman for life. I also know that more people commit adultery in America (14-22%) than live homosexual lifestyles (1-3%). If we are so concerned about legislating our sexual morality, why are we not strengthening the marriage contract? Why are we not fighting for making adultery illegal? Of course, we can’t stop there in being the moral majority. We will have to make it illegal to not attend church. We will have to enforce coveting with the law enforcement. We can force people to give 10% of their income to the church.
If we are going to be the group who controls everyone’s morality thru the government, we have to think thru the long term ramifications. Are we really called to do this? Or, are we just picking and choosing our battles to keep our comfort levels at their peak?
Ingrid recently posted a heated response against my article, accusing me of “attacking” Peter LaBarbera and Americans for Truth. I am wanting to know how she defines “attacking.” I feel that it was hardly an attack, but my thoughts on the issue and an opportunity for discussion. I know that the open conversation about ideas is a foreign concept to the Online Discernment Community, but they must understand that sharing thoughts is not an open attack. Also, never once did I ever mention the name of Peter LaBarbera, and had/have no reason to critique him at all. Contrary to ODM belief, it is possible to disagree with a method or ideology and not attack a person personally.
Ingrid, for the record, I am not taking “pop shots” at those who oppose public pornographic activity. I am not too sure how you could even pull that from what I said. I am not even opposed to people who oppose homosexuality. I am opposed to Christians creating organizations to politically battle sin. I am opposed to people who oppose homosexuals more than homosexuality. I am opposed to rebuking large populations of nonbelievers while keeping them at arms length.
You can read the conversation happening at the original post, but our job is to help change hearts with the Holy Spirit of God. It is not our place to legislate morality for the western world. When we begin to doubt God’s ability to change hearts (or simply do not care to get involved with the messy lives of non-beleivers), we look for other catalysts for change and methods to preserve a convenient Christian culture. The government is a perfect solution, however unbiblical. When we tie a political ideology to the movement of Jesus Christ, we move into a dangerous place.
By the way, my favorite line in Ingrid’s article
“Sitting safely behind his computer, he can afford to be a critic.”
um… Mr. Pot, the Kettle is calling. Also, I am my own person. You don’t have to keep linking be back to my pastor. Unlike some, I do not find my significance in who I learn from.
This article and the ministry discussed in it shows us that married Christian couples don’t really know as much about sex as we think. This is true of what is permissable and how to go about it. (Before somebody reads the whole thing and gets in a tissy, I don’t agree with or endorse everything in this article. The ministry concept is good, but I think the presentation of what is good and right lacks much that Mark Driscoll gets right in his sermons on marriage and sex.)
Why are we so afraid to talk about this and/or why do we get so upset when others do talk about it?
In this article by Ingrid, she links to this website.
Americans for Truth about Homosexuality
I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the website. I am trying really hard to figure out why Christians are so obsessed with letting the world know the truth behind homosexuality. If I felt like they were doing it because they cared deeply about the people who live the lifestyle, and want desperately for them to experience the life that God designed for them, I would not have a problem with all of it. However, that is certainly not the vibe I am getting from these sites. They are more concerned about winning their debate than facilitating life transformation in the hearts of homosexuals. It’s basically saying “we don’t care about you, but we want you to know that we completely disagree with your lifestyle.”
And why is it just homosexuality. They act as if that is the BIG sin in the scriptures, dismissing all other destructive behaviors and choices. So, I will faithfully be waiting for the following websites to emerge, if these people are really trying to get biblical truth out there
Americans for Truth about Lying
Americans for Truth about Gossip
Americans for Truth about Bitterness
Americans for Truth about Slander
Americans for Truth about Poverty
Americans for Truth about Widows
Or maybe these groups are not at all concerned about people who are far from God connecting to, and living out the life that God dreams for them, but simply condemning those they disagree with. unfortunately we are now warring over truth, and not warring for the hearts of people. I don’t think that’s what God was hoping we would become.
