Sometimes, I think there may not be an angrier subset of humanity than Christians. Certainly, we have plenty of proof in the internet and blogosphere, and that’s a post for another day. Quick, answer this question: “Who’s more abusive, pastors or congregations?” I bet your answer is strongly tied to which side of the pulpit you’ve spent most of your life on.
Pastors can be mean and abusive. Congregations can do great impersonations of slave owners. Blogs allow people on both sides to write scathing critiques of others. Pastors are leaving their vocational ministry by the droves. Families are being destroyed. How does Christ speak into this? How does love speak into this? How do we as Christians act like Christians? Well, to start we forgive. Take a bland sheet of paper. Seriously, go get one. Now, write down the names of the people in your congregation who have wronged you, abused you, unfairly criticized you, hurt you, and attacked you and your family.
Now, go ahead and do the same thing if your not a pastor. I’m sure we all have a list. Are you willing to forgive them? Are you willing to say that out loud? I forgive ___________.
We’ve just finished a three part series on forgiveness. I would strongly encourage everyone to download all three sermons and take a listen. Please note this does not mean I will engage anyone in conversations about Rob or Mars beyond the scope of these teaching times. I want to write more on this later but as I attended the last day of Poets, Prophets and Preachers today sitting next to someone who’s words were being used to hurt my teaching pastor I realized that there are those who live to hurt the church. There are those people who are toxic. They don’t have to be engaged, but they must be forgiven. Forgiveness sets us free. Forgiveness leads to Resurrection.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
21 Comments(+Add)
where can sermons be downloaded?
Are there videos of the sermons? I am hearing impaired and being able to read the lips in addition to hearing the sermons is a tremendous benefit to me.
@Tom just go to Marshill.org and click on teaching times.
@Aaron: Sorry man, just the podcasts as far as I know
Rob Bell might as well have invited Oprah and other new agers with the drivel that was preached there…
But I forgive them.
Pastorboy,
Did you write this after listening to the sermons in question? If not, how can you critique something you have not researched?
Again, why the hostility? Dos it bring you joy to tear down a brother in Christ?
I am trying to understand how the Gospel and the Spirit that indwell you – results in such dark comments.
Translation: I listened/read something about the conference and decided that I would leave a comment. I forgive because obviously I’m better than them.
Neil..
No, I only read a live blog by a self described POMO emergent. I wrote this here. about it.
Read the transcript. See if there is anything remotely Christian in it.
Hey John, this post is about sermons preached at the church on forgiveness. I forgive you for being un-Christlike and divisive. I truly feel badly for you that Satan has told you a bunch of lies that causes you to think your actions even remotely resemble Christ. Frankly, you’re many tantrums do not.
I realize you have accepted these lies so I pray for you. That said, if you cannot deal with the actual substance of this post, I will have to use Titus 3:10 because of Proverbs 26:11 I will no longer interact with you on this thread.
#8
Thats funny, Joe, because I was reading in Titus in regards to your Pastor’s conference:
From what I saw of the live blogging of the event, from a supporter of your pastor, I would say that he is the one being divicive in that he is promoting non-sound doctrine and fooling many Pastors and congregations in the process.
How is ANYTHING Shane Hipps said sound doctrine?
And if Rob Bell supports this teaching, and if he teaches some quasi- Christian stuff himself, that is why he is rightly criticized and rebuked.
But whatever, Joe. If discernment is divicive in your world, you can just believe what you want to. May your essence be at peace.
Ruach.
What does divicive mean? Is that Latin?
Foregiveness is the essence of the gospel and the single element that is most difficult to exhibit, especially in the midst of disagreement.
I started to read you blog but could follow what you were trying to say – that and the swipe at Bell was enough for me to give up.
Why must you treat others so?
So if I follow this correctly… you do not listen to the speakers, you read blogs and tweets… then make a judgment from them on what the speaker meant?
The more Pastor Boy abuses scripture the more I see the appeal of Catholicism.
He makes the scriptures seem useless and pathetic if they can’t even shape the character of someone who claims to have cherished them his entire life.
Actually, the more I think about it the more it makes sense. As he’s demonstrated with Pastor Bell’s recent sermons on forgiveness (I’ve listened to them all twice, they are excellent, and more Biblical than anything I’ve ever read from an ADM) Pastor Boy doesn’t actually listen or read anything he condemns, why would I expect him to actually read what he condones? Its becoming more and more clear, he doesn’t actually read the scriptures, he reads about the scriptures, and then tries to comment on them as if using primary sources.
John,
Your link in #7 is broken.
As one who was at the conference, I assure you, the scriptures were paramount in each of the sessions by all three of the speakers.
Maybe when the dvd becomes available you can watch and then comment.
I came away from the conference edified and challenged and encouraged and empowered.
Shane Hipps second session (which I’m assuming you were addressing) was a follow-up to his first and is in conjunction with all of his other teachings. And in that context, he was spot-on. However, if you pluck this session from his larger body of work, and if you are looking for something to criticize, then I’m sure you found what you were looking for.
Shane Hipps loves Jesus, the Bible, and others. That much was clear.
Shalom
#16
Nathanael,
I was thinking as I was walking out the door from the last session how I forgot to call you. Maybe next year.
Joe,
I tried to find you at one point.
No worries on forgetting about me…I’m sure you had a lot on your mind.
You would nto know forgiveness if it died on a Cross for you… so don’t lie about how you forgive anyone… you blaspheme God when you claim to and hate your brothers and sisters in CHrist.
iggy
How nice to see you Iggy.
May God richly bless you and your ministry in Montana.
Ruach.
PB,
God has richly blessed me… maybe not with wealth, but with family, friends and the loving relationship with my Father through Jesus Christ.
I pray that you stop hurting others so you will join what God has blessed and so also be blessed.
iggy