A grieving child:
Ingrids take:
This is slightly outside the realm of our commentary here at Slice, but the mawkish, vomit-inducing spectacle in L.A. today over the death of a desiccated, prescription drug-abusing pop star demands a reality check…
…God help this nation, and may we always remember the young people who have died in the service of their country, unsung and unnoticed, while Americans behave like fools over a dead singer with a proclivity for young boys.
emphasis mine.
This entry was posted
on Tuesday, July 7th, 2009 at 5:34 pm and is filed under Uncategorized.
You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.
Both comments and pings are currently closed.
54 Comments(+Add)
Chris – Just when you think Jesus Christ could not be more misrepresented, something like this comes forth. The heart of Jesus must grieve for people who are in darkness, and He must be grieved even more when someone who claims His name shows such utter disregard for the plight of sinners.
Chris, did you catch the nation idolatry as Ingrid showed more love for the country than she did for these precious people. She was mournful over the death of this country than the death of a lost person who lived a very sad life and was abused in so many ways as a child.
How can someone be so blind to the Jesus as revealed in Scripture????
The lack of compassion and regard for human feeling in just the title of this article absolutely astounds me. I have no words.
Please pray for these children. 11 was the worst age ever for me in the first place; I could not even imagine losing a parent at that time.
I want to publicly state that I was no better than Michael Jackson, and without God’s grace I fall just as short as he did. I will not ever understand proving some theological point leveraged upon the grief of others. I lost my mother when I was young and if I had read something like that post I would never have become a Christian.
What does it say to the world when someone like Jackson, with all his problems, is more gentle and kind and philanthropic than the self righteous windbags who openly exhibit the spirit of the publican Jesus warned against?
Chrisianity is not castigating and writing about sinners, it is walking in Jesus in such a way that men are curious as to our Hope. May the Spirit reach some of the people in that video with the freedom and redemption in Jesus.
I think this is sad.
I weep for those children, they need Jesus, just like Michael Jackson did.
But you miss the point of the post; your Hatred (yes HATRED) for Ingrid helps you to miss the point. The point is that we worship our celebrities, while millions of babies die every year through the sin (YES SIN) of Abortion. We worship Obama, and do not call him on his wicked support for this. We have people daily sacrificing for our freedom, but we would rather spend the day worshipping at the throne of a pedophile and a drug addict. Why not exalt God?
I weep for Michael that he was likely not saved- but I don’t know. I pray for his kids and hope that there is a Christian somewhere in that extended family that can share the very good news and give them the love that they need.
I weep for the world that calls evil good and good evil. I weep for the so called Christians that are asleep at the wheel and not actively pursuing righteousness and sharing their faith. I weep that we waste our time and our resources so that many more would not hear the good news.
You got a mouse in your pocket? What’s this we you speak of? I’m not worshiping Mike Jackson on iota.
Easy cowboy… MJ was never found guilty of the charges of pederasty, so why don’t you just keep those comments to yourself.
Pastorboy,
since you mention abortion, do you believe that it would have been better if people you accuse of being pedophiles and drug addicts had never been born? I just want to be able to get a little insight into your head. Help me out, please.
John,
You are a sick human being. The only reason Ingrid even wrote this is because she saw a story on Foxnews.com about some family stressing out because their son got no attention when he died the same day as MJ. But I’ll bet you and ingrid would both be happy if our presidents and senators continued sending those young men off to war to die.
I used to give you the benefit of the doubt John, but the more you write the more offended and disgusted I become with your version of ‘faith.’ Keep on weeping, but don’t you dare lift a finger to do anything about it.
Who is ‘we’? You might worship him, but I don’t know of anyone here who does.
What freedoms have been sacrificed? I’m free. No one has taken away any of my rights because they are grounded in Christ and not in some dead piece of paper in Washington.
Freedoms? If you think you are free because you live in America you are more naive than I thought.
You are sad with your pathetic idea that being American necessarily means being free or being Christian.
Obama is not the only one supporting abortion. There are millions of people all over the country who believe in it. You would too if it were rape or incest. But are you helping? Are you adopting? Are you foster-parenting? Are you handing out profilactics? Are you counseling un-wed teen mothers and fathers?
Or are you just complaining?
Yeah, that’s what I thought. You are such a tool and not in any useful sense of the word either.
Pastorboy,
You are correct that our culture worshps the celebrity. But Rick is right when he says “Chrisianity is not castigating and writing about sinners…” and “I will not ever understand proving some theological point leveraged upon the grief of others.”
If the internet had a referee – Ingrid would be ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.
I really feel that agruing with a person who does not see the egregious behavior and scandalous attacks of Ingrid is like trying to make a person see the world is round. There is a pathology at work here that emanates from a fundamental misunderstanding of Christ and His mission.
We are all prone to levels of self righteousness, and we are much better at seeing the sins of others than the sins that call us “friend”. I still contend that some of the discernment sites that deal with preachers and their teachings are generally within the realm of reality.
But Ingrid Schlueter is representative of a brand of Christianity that displays a tangible and visceral hatred for sinners themselves. This, my friends, is not Christianity regardless of how you can accurately regurgitate an orthodox soteriology or scream things at open air sites.
Without a heart and without having love, it is worthless.
Jerry,
Well thank you very much. Coming from you, Jerald, I will take that as a complement. I am not happy that we are at war, but I am thankful for those troops who give the ultimate sacrifice so that you can mock and insult me and others on this C???RN.info.
I do not seek your approval, nor do I care what you think of me or if you give me any benefit whatsoever. Like with Joe and Iggy, I just forgive your insults and ignorance and move on.
The we I refer to is the American public, and the news networks who are all covering this piece because of ratings (I picked that up from the AP)
Leave your pulpit and preach on the street and see how free you really are. Preach and do outreach at an abortuary, or in front of a porno shop, or a XXX nightclub, or a gay bar and see how free you are. Of course, you wouldn’t do that because you fear man and man’s opinion more than God.
I think quite the opposite. I think our only freedom is in Christ, and that being an American does not make me free. I don’t believe America is even close to being a Christian nation- at least not for some time.
I don’t support abortion under any circumstances. Two wrongs do not make a right. I also do not support killing abortion providers. I believe in preaching the Word of God and counseling people considering it.
How owuld handing out birth control do anything but encourage kids to do something immoral? I have fostored two kids this past year, and as there is need my home is always open. I do counsel young people as well- before and after they find themselves in trouble. I do this according to the Bible, not in opposition to it by handing out birth control- how ridiculous!
Jerry, that very suggestion shows how far off the reservation you are, pardner.
John,
Nice racial slur there.
What does this have to do with anything? I preach wherever I’m called to preach. The location has nothing to do, whatsoever, with the level of conviction. Besides, who cares if you preach in front of those places. Go inside where no one can see you then I will be impressed.
I don’t believe you.
Who cares what the ‘american public’ or ‘news networks’ do? Ingrid posted it so I guess that makes her just as much the problem as anyone else.
FYI, my brother, USMC, is now on his second tour in Iraq. So please spare me your bs about how much you value your freedom. You don’t have it all that bad if all you do is preach on the beach and get beer spilled on you every now and again. Seriously.
Way to not address anything
Why would I cause my eyes to sin? I have and do go into bars etc. and strike up conversations. I don’t go into porn shops or etc. because I do not want to be poluted by the world. I get that enough out front and on the beach.
I am still fascinated by your Godly suggestion to hand out rubbers. I wonder if you have a spiritual brand you suggest for that worldly suggestion.
Thank your brother and his platoon for me. I will pray for him as well.
God bless.
Ruach
I haven’t blogged here in quite some time but I want to add my voice to to this post. I’ve been amused by Ingrid for the most part over the years. I find her pontificating and denegrating ways to be mostly laughable if not somewhat pathetic on occasion. But her comments today, so filled with hatred and condemnation leave me speechless as well.
I just pray that the family of Michael Jackson never happens to read her disgusting post. I don’t know what or who they believe in, but if they read Ingrid’s diatribe and lack of concern for their grief, . . .well, I just hope they don’t confuse Ingrid’s dribble with the message of that God proved his love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Pastorboy,
You are correct that our culture worshps the celebrity. But Rick is right when he says “Chrisianity is not castigating and writing about sinners…” and “I will not ever understand proving some theological point leveraged upon the grief of others.”
If the internet had a referee – Ingrid would be ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.
You are so holy and pure. I’m surprised you come here and allow your eyes to be polluted and your mind corrupted and your fingers distressed.
John, I think that if you actually did anything it would be a positive step of faith. As it is, you simply pontificate your judgments and self-righteousness in your agreement with pathetic drivel like SOL and AM. My suggestion was hyperbole to that end.
You don’t not go in to protect your eyes. You stay outside where you can be seen making videos ‘for the edification of the church’, where people can see your holy suffering for Jesus. You don’t go in because you are terrified that you might look and have to be saved by grace instead of your own righteousness that you exercised by not looking. Be honest John.
It is so hard not to see where you and your kind come from. You bore me to tears with your cock and bull stories about preaching–as if your preaching makes you any more righteous than the rest of us. And your continued defense of blogs like SOL and AM and the rest demonstrates your profound bias against grace.
Agreed Jerry and well said…Kind of reminds of this.
emphasis mine
Maybe I’m just being crude and unintellectual (I am just a junior in college after all), but Pastorboy, you suck as a Christian.
Seriously.
Now I’m gonna go eat my burger and pretend that you actually thought about what I said and have looked at yourself because what else can I really do?
*note to self: don’t bother commenting after a long day at work*
You know all this bantering about who’s in and who’s out made me think I should probably take a look at myself…hmmm…sounds familiar.
Better yet, take a look at Christ and ask him to help you change.
Agreed!
For years I have thought Paul’s warning about preaching “another Jesus” was in reference to what we generally call “cults”. But it has become evident that it is possible to accept the incarnation, the redemption on the cross, and the resurrection while still preaching another Jesus.
What we say, how we say it, and how we live our lives is in effect preaching the Jesus we follow. And when someone writes a scathing and self righteous post like the one on SoL, on that level Ingrid is projecting another Jesus.
Jerry.
If it was about making videos, then the library would be huge. Its not.
If it were about self righteousness, then I would have to choose another line of work. There is nothing good in me.
It is about obedience. The call that Christ has called me to, to preach his word, be instant in season and out of season.
If you all would quit worrying about Ingrid and Ken and others that you hate you might have time to find the real Jesus. Instead, you would rather sit in your glass houses and throw stones while listening to Rob Bell and the essense.
John – I have many times preached open air meetings, including Clearwater beach in the midst of all the sunbathers. I have a 3′ x 4′ plywood sign that says “Believe Me – I am coming soon – Jesus” and I hold it up at a corner where three lanes of cars wait for a turn signal at rush hour. I have been called all sorts of names. And I do not listen to Rob Bell.
So, with that said, are you willing to openly reject Ingrid’s uncharitable post about a family in grief?
Translation: There is nothing good in me except that I am more obedient than you and I follow Christ better than you.
Seriously, PB, why do you keep repeating that tripe about nothing good being in you?
You don’t really believe it. You just can’t. You come here repeatedly and point out how various people could never be Christians because they, well, aren’t very good.
But you obviously believe you’re a Christian. In fact, I usually get the sense that you believe you’re one of *only* Christians walking around.
So please ‘fess up. Admit it.
You believe that you’re pretty good, don’t you?
Aaron – comments such as those are not helpful, nor appreciated. You contributions are, just not in that vein…
Jerry,
For the sake of balance, I think you are coming uncomfortably close to assigning motives to what PB does. His methods are probably counterproductive and maybe even self-fulfilling – but I suspect his motives are pure.
Pastorboy,
You are correct that our culture worshps the celebrity. But Rick is right when he says “Chrisianity is not castigating and writing about sinners…” and “I will not ever understand proving some theological point leveraged upon the grief of others.”
If the internet had a referee – Ingrid would be ejected for unsportsmanlike conduct.
Care to respond?
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
We do not hate them. We hate what they do and how they reflect on our Lord.
We do not dedicate ourselves to throwing stones, we simply respond with a call to accuracy.
We might find the real Jesus? Pray tell, is that the Jesus that mocks lost sinners in their grief?
Name-dropping serves to purpose other than to escalate. Why do this my brother?
Look, guys,
I do not believe we are to even judge sinners. That is not our job. We are to help them become aware of their sin so that they might repent.
I agree with Ingrid in her social commentary, which I read the article as. I agree that the media and the US public eat up things like the Michael Jackson Funeral and idolize them
I watched that video of little Paris, and I wept with her. I was sad she lost her daddy, even though he was very strange and likely broke bot the law of man and of God.
I truly pray that they get saved.
But I am not going to castigate Ingrid for her conviction about the waywardness of the media, the people, and some Christians who idolize MJ.
Where in Scripture are we told it is our job to make people aware of their sin? It’s the Holy Spirit who does that. When we try to make people aware of their own sins, we automatically go to a place that causes us to be blind to our own. The only one who can rightly point out others’ sins is the Holy Spirit.
The thought that Ingrid may have convictions about the “waywardness of the media” may be the most unintentionally ironic thing I’ve read all week.
Ingrid is *emblematic* of the waywardness of the media. Our news media today is shallow, snarky, full of gossip, but lacking in insight.
Ingrid’s writing is shallow, snarky, full of gossip, but lacking in insight.
Slice of Laodicea, in that sense, is a most perfect mirror, reflecting all of the worldliness of the modern day media.
The best part is when the Christian Tabloids start complaining about the worldiness of the Church…
33
Phil, I agree…we cannot tell them what their sin is ( The Holy Spirit does the conviction) but we can help by using the Ten Commandments as a mirror for ourselves first and for those we speak to.
It is all based upon the Word of God, not our own opinions.
And what would you expect from the world?
This is, as M.G., pointed out ironic. In the sense that Ingrid uses that same media to promulgate her “ministry”.
BTW had Ingrid said what you said (#32) without all the invectives and snarkiness I wouldn’t have posted anything about it.
Why do the Ten Commandments mean anything to someone who’s not in relationship with God in first place? God gave them to His people, not to the everyone who was alive at the time.
That is because you are either like her, or are blind to her sin, or you are a same camp coward. People like Ingrid help us understand the real essence of people like you, even if your verbiage is different. We are in her debt for providing a looking glass into the people who support her.
If a man seems reasonable but will not rebuke or even disagree with Fred Phelps, that man, regardless of his outward reasonableness, has revealed who he really is. The metaphor is obvious.
Yeah, PB. This is how every evangelist in the NT began their sermons or witnessing. They started with the 10 commandments.
Re 39….Pb, if you didn’t catch it that was sarcasm.
You begin where no one in the NT begins. Well done.
#39..
They didn’t need to. The people that Peter was speaking to at Pentecost was a group that loved the law. They knew it, all too well.
It changed a little bit in Acts 17, with the command to the Pagans to repent, for they had broken at least the second commandment, and also, as everyone, the first.
Lets not forget about Jesus himself….with, for example, the rich young ruler.
#37
Because they are the law written on all men’s hearts, they awaken the conscience, and we are ALL under it (until we are saved by grace)
I got saved without being convicted of my sin. The Holy Spirit drew me to Christ. The Ten Commandments are easy sins to avoid. Let’s have a look at your thought life and see if there is any hatred, murder, lust, and the cancer of all cancers, pride.
I am sure the diagnosis would be fatal.
But in acts 17 Paul makes no mention of them breaking any commandment. In fact, he applauds them for being religious and in order to speak to them he actually quotes their own pagan poems! He doesn’t begin from the Jewish law at all but begins with Easter.
Sure he does.
He mentions their clear idolatry.
#43 Rick, amen. God sees those secret sins as well.
Certainly the Holy Spirit made you aware of your need by convicting you of sin?
Wrong, PB. He never once calls them idolaters.
In fact, the reasons he is even notices, as vs. 18 clearly states, is because he was “telling the GOOD NEWS about Jesus and the resurrection.” That was his message.
He calls them religious – not sinners. He simply shift their attention from what they have been seeking all along and points them to the risen Christ. Vs. 32 says, “When they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some scoffed, but others said, “We will hear more of this.”
Where is the Law, PB?
It’s all Easter.
It’s all good news.
He even quotes their pagan poems as a means to help them understand. I read your diatribe about Tony Jones liking a Kashmir song. I bet Paul would use it too.
WRONG-O
And you didnt address the rich young ruler…Jesus used 6 of the ten commandments in his case…
Where does it say that all mankind is under the law given to the Jews?
In Romans 2, Paul isn’t saying that Gentiles are under the Law. He is simply saying that they naturally fulfill some of the requirements because they have been written in their consciences. In other words, God has had mercy on the Gentiles even in the past.
You are operating under a false assumption that the Law was given to the Jews as a burden. It wasn’t. It was given to them as a blessing. If someone gives you a map when you’re trying to find your way out of a cave, it isn’t a burden. It’s a blessing. When God gave the Law to the Jewish people, He was in essence saying, “I love you so much that I will show you how to live in a way that honors me. You don’t have to stumble around blindly.”
How so?
You missed the point in comment #1
“How can someone be so blind to the Jesus as revealed in Scripture????”
Yes indeed how can you be?
Matthew 7:22-23 (New King Jimmy):
22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Chris P.,
You seem angry. Let the Holy Spirit fill you with the joy of being a disciple. Remember – the burden is light, my brother, so lay down your bitterness.
re 43 Rick, if you were saved without being convicted of your sin, then what exactly was it that you were saved from?
#53 – I actually had an overwhelming sense of being saved TO Christ and very little sense of being saved from anything. Of course I learned more later.
On another issue, why in the world would believers care about what FedEx does with their employees? And since most believers care nothing for the plight of the gender conflicted what does it say about us when we are outraged that the secular business world cares for them more than the followers of Christ?
Here is the self righteous outrage.