Endeavoring to prove how right ‘they’ really are, Slice contributor Sam Guzman picked up on a blog post from Slaughtering of the Sheep (which is also endeavoring) and reported that two of the people who were ‘healed’ by Todd Bentley at the Lakeland revival have now died. Said Slaughtering:
It was inevitable. A false healing revival with overblown and unsubstatiated (sic.) reports of healing can only lead to one thing for those who are desperate and looking for healing… death.
Said Samuel,
The Slaughter of the Sheep blog carries news that two of those who were declared ‘healed’ by false prophet, Todd Bentley, have now died.
Well, Kudos to Samuel and Slaughtering! You were right and all of us stupid people should have listened to your rightness in the first place then we would have been spared any embarrassment of having to admit later that you were right. Congratulations on being right!
You folks are so insightful. You are so prescient. So wise. Thank you for pointing out that people have died. Thank you for gloating in your rightness. Thank you for pointing to the moon and reminding us it is not the sun.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
48 Comments(+Add)
Well…I’
m completey surprised bytotally expected this. Not that they died but that the glee club would pounce on it to share their delight in their rightness.God killed them because they were emergent — just like Kyle Lake.
:sarcasm off.
I just hope the lurkers here will have the maturity to see your point.
Nobody here endorsed that “revival” debacle.
This tragedy is only to be expected.
It’s not like the deaths were needed to “prove” anyone’s point about that Lakeland garbage and the hucksters who push that stuff wherever they may be found.
Tragedy compounded by tragedy doesn’t need an “I told you so”.
Maybe I am missing something… and I am unfamiliar with Todd Bently… but after one reading of the article at Slaughter of the Sheep, I’d say I would agree with it.
To say a guy was healed who had died two weeks prior is – well, sloppy follow-up at best, lying at worst. And I also agree that many who fall into the prosperity camp (this is where my ignorance of Bentley comes into play – does he apply here?) give people false hope – whether that hope is in quick riches or quick health.
There is a note on Slice that Ingrid has been hospitalized with complications.
Let’s join in intercession for our sister.
Nathanael,
isn’t talking about her “medical conditions” part of the “online gang rape”?
I kid, I kid…
Jesus, heal her!
I also agree with their article which was a sub of the WORLD article. I disagree with the triumphant trump card that uses tragedy to prove a point.
And now I happily present two smoldering corpses as evidence that Todd Bentley’s healings were false. I want to praise God people died to help others.
(I will not bring up all the people that were baptized in orthodox churches who later left serving Christ)
Bentley’s revivals were false because of their unscriptural content, not because people died. If those same people were actually healed, would that authenticate Bentley’s ministry?
OK guys. I did not see any gloating in the article. Just the opposite — sadness for needless deaths. It is confirmation of a warning which should have been heeded. I am not familiar with that site, but this particular article was not gloating and seemed to exhibit genuine concern. Unfortunately, these are life and death issues and said deaths do bring the issue home and could be a wake up call for some. I thought the article was OK.
Rick, that is true, but the issue is larger than Bentley and that warnings that **needless** deaths can occur from imbracing such beliefs is a legitimate use of reporting said deaths IMO.
And yes if people were being truly healed **on demand** at these “revivals” then, yes, to me that would validate the ministry if the overall theology of the “healer” was also kosher. (e.g., being aware that “miracles” can be lying wonders from the Enemy).
NC, can we please, PLEASE get beyond these types of statements? Kidding about pregancy complications or whatever is the health issue sever enought to warrant a hospital visit is in poor taste. I cannot read your heart but “Jesus, Heal her” did not come across as sincere in that context.
Heaping coals on a fire only inflames passions. Can we just stick to the facts and not the personalities? PLEASE?
That should read: “severe enough”
Chris, that makes sense.
I just wasn’t sure about being seen as defending Bently. But you nuanced the point. Maybe the OP did as well and i just missed it.
Re 11: I agree.
Sometimes that is needed as a wake up call that this is serious (i.e., life threatening) business. Any death can be sensationalized, but I don’t see this as being the case in this particular article.
Thanks for getting it, nc.
Re 16 which Re’s 3
makes sense to me now…
The reason we might suspect an impure motive is found in the archives of these blogs. For example, instead of making a Biblical and reasonable case that shows the immodesty of beauty pageants, many of these same blogs take open delight in ferreting out the failings of one woman and beating that dead horse incessantly in an open display of “I told you so” judgmentalism.
So you see, one is hesistant to assume this dead person’s research has pure motives to educate and warn people about the errors of such theatrics. We fear there is much personal satisfaction within this “dead horse beating” masquerading as new and fresh information that is placed into evidence as the “smoking gun”.
I am hesistant…
John Hughes,
The kidding is precisely not about the complications.
It’s about the simple fact that talking about any personal medical condition that was as routine as a pregnancy was classified as “online gang rape”.
It’s about how the acknowledgement of a medical condition (threatening or not) is perceived as some malicious attack.
Again, I’m kidding about the idea of an online gang rape–not the complications.
That should be abundantly clear, but I’m happy to spell it out…even one more time:
My own wife is pregnant, I’m the happy father of my own children. It’s not some personal attack to acknowledge a pregnancy, etc.
The simple fact that a certain person has taken that acknowledgement as “an attack” and called it a gang rape is what’s being “kidded” about. Again, it’s not about joking about a pregnancy or complications or somebody’s cancer, etc. etc. etc.
Hope that helps.
Peace out.
NC. I’ve been commenting on this site for what 3 years? I’m fully versed on this whole gang rape controversy. Ingrid’s irrational rantings aside, a joke in response to a post on someone’s hospital visit is not appropriate. The pregancy issue is a moot point. Your reference to your wife is a perfect example of do unto others as you would have them do unto you. How, would you like your comment posted as a retort to a post about your wife’s hospital visit? That is all I am saying. Let us all (me included) strive for a higher level of Christian charity than is exhibited on the majority of the ODM’s blogs.
Rick a beauty pagent is not a life and death issue (except in Texas where I live and a mom put out a hit on her daughter’s cheerleader competition, but I digress). These miracle healing evangelists heretics **can** be a life or death issue. So in this case the listing of deaths resulting from these charlatan’s ministries is appropriate IMO. This particular article was not shrill or gleeful, but very sober and again this is a life threatening issue.
In this case maybe it does as the threat is very real as the tragedies are inseparably intertwined and perhaps the latter could have been avoided. Also, the warning seems to be general in nature and not specifically addressed to the relatives of the deceased and if you did talk to the relatives of the deceased I think you would probably find them in agreement with the article.
John
#21 that is not my statement.
Jerry
I’m late to the party on the Ingrid comments, so it probably doesn’t matter anymore. But when has that ever stopped anyone?
One of my not-so-proudest moments was to publicly skewer a dear friend and follow up with, “I’m sorry; I meant little disrepect.”
Ingrid isn’t just making a hospital visit of her own volition. Sam put it out there on SoL, and he’d be in a better position than most to know. So it’s neither rumor nor gossip in this instance.
Somone once said if the joker and the butt of the joke aren’t both laughing at the end of the joke, it’s not really a joke but an exercise in cruelty.
So, if you don’t have to… don’t.
Looked at both posts that you linked to and have yet to see any evidence of gloating.
Therefore, I call you a liar.
As always the pro .info comments on this site descend to the lowest common denominator.
You all may yet prove that the 47 million year old monkey is the missing link. That would be using the hermeneutics of Darwin and the talmud of course.
God help you all.
John Hughes,
My joke isn’t about the hospital visit or her complications, it’s about how apparently mentioning anything about that woman is part of a “gang rape”.
It’s just simply not about making light of her complications. Please refrain from saying that it is. It isn’t.
It’s making light of her “gang rape” tantrums.
Which to me, regardless of whatever circumstances, will always be a rich source of continued fodder simply because it was so over the top.
Now, if people were talking about another touchy Ingrid related subject from her past, then I’d be right there with everyone about “the personal”.
Peace.
John Hughes,
As far as the actual OP goes.
Does it really require listing off the tragedy when common sense says that something like this was bound to happen?
If it were YOU posting about it, then I’d understand and give you the benefit of the doubt. You’re not called to a fake “ministry” of anger to glorify yourself.
But the ODM track record is clear…whatever their legit points rarely may be, their self-glorifying “man-centered” ministries have no use in the world.
These people are anti-RCC, self-appointed magisterium and they’re all a joke–no better than that Lakeland huckster.
After reading the article at Slaughtering the Sheep it was not as bad as it could have been. It was unusually measured for an ODM site.
Ingrid seems to be doing well and from what I can gather she has given birth. This is a lesson in Christian behavior and attitude in two ways. We should always pray for and show grace to each other.
But the Bible teaches that you should not expect to receive grace if you do not show any. We exhibit spiritual inconsistency when we ask for prayerful rememberance for some, but not for others.
Christianity must be the most illogical, umpleasant, paradoxical, selfless, confounding, weak, forgiving, trusting, and loving faith that remains perplexing to the natural man.
In summary, exhibiting the life of Jesus Christ must be profoundly disarming and singularly redemptive… or else it is not Christianity at all.
Chris P., our brother, why the hostility and anger? As you can see by the comments here some perceive gloating and some do not – it’s a subjective thing… not an issue of truth and lie.
I do not understand why you harbor such anger in your soul – be joyful my brother…
Personally, I did not see much gloating, save maybe in the title. But I’m not going to call Jerry a liar – we just perceive this differently.
I do not understand why you harbor such anger in your soul – be joyful my brother…
Yes he does – thanks. But I do not understand the Darwinian and Talmud references.
Chris P, what happend to returning curses with a blessing? Where are personal insults ever a part of the edification of the body? Where is patience, longsuffering, turning the other cheek? We can all do better.
NC. You can have the last word.
Chris P’s comments have become nothing more than skeets that provide recreational addressing. The only difference is that his skeets have a diameter of 100 feet.
I think we all agree that Ingrid’s “gang rape” reference was offensive and over the top. No argument there.
There will probably be times in the future when referecning it will be relevant, appropriate, maybe even humorous.
But dropping it in, even in jest, immediately after a prayer request for her higher risk pregnancy was poor taste.
I understand you make the distinction between her hospital stay and the use of the comment, it just that the placement was poor timing.
It occurred to me that my comments directed toward Chris P could be seen as sarcasm – but they are not.
His comments are increasingly angry and sometime just down-right illogical. A believer should have more joy and a greater sense of peace… it saddens me to see a brother in Christ so angry… it saddens me to see him lash out with comments that are unrelated, illogical, and meant only to hurt.
Neil – Self righteousness when gestated grows in size and power, until it gives birth to angry nonsense that usually finds friendship among its other siblings.
I praise God for Chris P.
(Or maybe I should say, I praise Chris P for Chris P?)
anyway…Here’s why I’m thankful:
1. Every time Chris P. comments he proves my point.
2. He’s a consistent example of what a bankrupt spirit of religion sounds like.
Neil, I think your compassion is admirable. I just wonder why you’d be surprised that a person who gives so much time to exalting himself would end up being anything other than resentful and bitter?
His darkness is the fruit of what is truly “man-centered” religion.
I’m not sure which comes first the self-righteousness or the bitterness.
Chris P., obviously believes God must be worshiped and followed in a very very narrow manner. from what I see it’s mostly based on extra-biblical preferences that have been exalted to biblical standards.
Certainly we all have our preferences, the issue is exalting them to biblical standards.
When you have exalted a bunch of your own cultural preferences to the status of biblical standards, then it makes sense that all who do not share your preferences are lesser followers – if followers at all.
But this does not explain the bitterness, anger, and illogical lashing out.
I think it helps explain it.
When we exalt ourselves in the deepest sense of the word, we inevitably will find ourselves living with the dirty secret that we are not really so “all that” that we are justified in our self-idolatry.
Instead of facing that painful truth–since it would destroy the very foundation of how we make our way in the world–we turn outward and lash out at all those whose very existence, much less manner of living, are a constant reminder of our own bankruptcy.
I think it makes perfect sense.
These people “love themselves” in the worst way. Loving oneself doesn’t result in “loving others”…it only leaves you empty, resentful, and self-absorbed.
That’s why they’re just the angry pissed off version of televangelist hucksters and Lakeland-type “revivalists”.
Same coin, different side. The currency of “dead religion”–one side is manic, the other is a deep smoldering inferno.
It’s all a little bit of hell on earth.
Chris P. is an leader in his church. He must be held to a higher standard.
We’re talking about a person who thinks they’re more faithful to God because they don’t use the word “Christmas” at, well, Christmas time.
It’s totally cool to have your reasons for doing so…
It’s not cool to go around acting like everyone who doesn’t bow down to your personal opinions are of the devil.
That’s the point of most of the critiques raised by this site.
38: Never a good thing when we elevate our opinions to the level of doctrine. We all do it to some degree, some more than others. I mean in the sense that, especially in this country, where not only do I have the right to my opinion, but you also have a right to my opinion.
Re #40
Or at least the standard he and his ilk hold for others.
My grandmother was a victim of one of these hucksters.
They seem to come around the reservations every year or so spouting their message of peace, health, wealth, and speaking things into existence.
We don’t have much money, but what we did have she gave away to one of these people. It is a bad testimony for Chritians and the fact he was white reinforced already held stereotypes.
While these people died in the will of God, we do not need to gloat or take joy. What we must do is be discerning about these wolves in sheeps clothing. Bentley is obvious, but guys like Rob Bell spout a much more deadly poison, imo
A Calvinist way of saying “Que sera sera”. Why are we mad at falswe prophets if they are in God’s will? Goofy.
The problem is blatant inconsistency and partisanship. Where were the corrections on the false prophet called Proctor who falsely said God electrocuted a pastor while baptizing? It was because he swims in the same streams so he gets a pass.
And if you are interested in gloating and self righteousness, take a tour through the archives of SoL. It is the Smithsonian of gloating.
Proctor isn’t the only one…there’s moment after moment after moment.
And we’re not even talking about the self-censoring when they make articles magically disappear when they’re caught with their pants down.
I simply do not even understand how you can make this statement. Sometimes the ignorance is astounding.
*UPDATE*
Ingrid has not yet given birth, I misunderstood the prayer request.
Keep praying.