During Lent, I have been preaching about Christian unity in my church (mostly from 1 Corinthians, although this week is from Ephesians 4). We have also read a book called Together Again by Bob Russell and Rick Atchley. It is a short book, but a good book that seeks to help, in part, heal the ginormous rift that existed in so-called Restoration Movement churches. At the root of our division has been the issue of instrumental music; no small rift I assure you. I believe it took an enormous amount of courage for these two preachers of the Gospel, from opposites sides of the proverbial keyboard, to write this book and I have benefited greatly from their wisdom.
But I think there can be a wider application of their work in the broader, wider body of Christ. Here, then, is how they conclude their work:
Often the reason we struggle to accept those who disagree with us is that we are hesitant to accept the radical implications of God’s grace. It is difficult to set aside our pride and admit it is by grace we are saved, not by moral or theological perfection. ‘Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God’ (wrote Paul in Romans 15:7).
We are saved by Christ, not correctness. If that’s true, then we can accept someone whose doctrine isn’t perfectly aligned with ours. Someone said, ‘If we spent more time at the cross of Jesus, we would spend less time being cross with each other!’ Let’s accept that a man doesn’t have to be my twin brother. Let’s admit that none of us has achieved doctrinal perfection, and let’s be thankful that we’re saved by grace.
[...]
We can’t manufacture unity. We can’t transform people’s lives. We can’t save the world. But Jesus Christ can. If we will just lift him up, if we will just speak the truth with a humble, loving spirit, he will draw all men to himself and we will be one in him. (121-122, 123)
So this is yet another word on the grace of God. (I’m trying to find 100,000 ways to say we are saved by grace. I’m up to about 20-25.) I stand amazed at the grace and power of God to bring us together as one people in Christ. Let us all work together to see the church, the greater church, brought together under the headship and banner of Christ, united together in the bond of peace, transformed by the grace of God, and growing and building ourselves up, together, in love.
Be blessed in him. Praise be to God for his indescribable gift.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
172 Comments(+Add)
I think the challenge comes mostly in what is the non-negotiable truths that one must hold to vs. those that are negotiable.
What is the absolute fundamental position? I think music is an example of a negotiable.
Non negotiable? Jesus Christ, fully man, fully God, without sin did the work of justification on the cross, a sacrifice accepted by God evidenced by the resurrection from the dead This is accessed through belief; a saving faith given by God that makes a person who is dead in trespasses and sins alive in Christ. This is evidenced by a changed life; that is fruit in keeping with repentance (Matthew 3:8, Luke 3:8)
Negotiable?
baptism- immersion vs. sprinkling? infant vs. adult? baptism at all?
Others? ideas, please.
I am all for unity, but not unity at any cost. There are things that we can compromise on, and things in which there can be no compromise. There are clear Bible teachings that cannot be compromised on. What do you all see as these negotiables vs. non- negotiables?
For those of us who were not raised in the Church of Christ or Christian church traditions the music issue seems extremely minor and insignificant. It is sort of like the “hymns only” genre.
But this post illustrates how we all can get sidetracked on minor issues by making those minor issues major.
Also, what are important doctrines but not redemptively restrictive? What I mean is what doctrines are such that I aggressively confront them as significant error but will not say they are not brothers in Christ.
1. Certain universalists.
2. Calvinists
3. Non-inerrant people
4. Gay Christian?
5. Prosperity people
6. ???
In my old age I have become much more measured and circumspect. I think your post, Jerry, is much deeper and deserves a more thoughtful assessment than the normal surface response.
I assure you, and I think you are saying as much, that the instrument issue is not minor in our tradition at all. It has rent our tradition in any of a hundred ways and caused much, much heartache and consternation to the Head of the Church.
I agree for the most part. It’s just that I think the list of negotiable ‘things’ is a lot smaller than most would want to believe. The evidence is the sickening amount of division that exists in the body of Christ. To be sure, I’m not suggesting unity at any cost but I might be suggesting unity is something far better than division and will be accomplished when we face the cross.
Thanks for, actually, a thoughtful reply.
no need to re-invent the wheel.
Nicea-Chalcedon works great for the minimum boundary.
I reject all councils.
I reject some councils.
Trent for starters…
Councils are nothing more than meetings of men who are theologians in their own mind. And at these meetings they decide by acclamation certain points of doctrine and theology and the spiritual serfs are supposed to give added weight to their decisions simply because they were decided in “councils”.
“Those that seemed somewhat in conference added nothing to me.”
If the church of Jesus Christ would teach and exhort each and every member of their congregation to formulate their own theology based upon Scripture we would have a much more Biblically mature body, and a much greater appreciation for what is important and what is ecclesiastical tradition.
I reject all councils.
So, how do you decide on inerrency? I mean a council decided what books were in and which were out.
The book of James has my doubts. I have held my own continuing council that overrides any historical council, the reports of which I must accept since I was not there.
Since different councils contradict each other how am I to decide which ones with which I agree? Answer: I reject them all as weighty in my own core beliefs. Everyone rejects some and embrace some and pick and choose, which in effect, is rejecting them all.
After reading this blog for the last several months, its clear to me why christians killed each other for a thousand years. You guys would be burning each other at the stake too, if you could. Thank god for the godless state.
Did it ever occur to anyone that reason you have so many divisions is because the Bible is inconsistent? One can easily find support for calvinism and arminianism in the Bible – they are both there. The Bible contradicts itself, and it contradicts itself on fundamental issues. Issues PB would call non-negotiable.
Yep, gordo, the secret is out. You win the prize for depth and profound discernment.
“After reading this blog for the last several months…”
I take back the prize.
Interesting…
The early councils represent a unique time in the life of the Church…where we had a universal mechanism for communal discernment about our theology.
Was it perfect? Nope.
But it was all predicated on a profound and extended grappling with Scripture…
I’m thankful for the early councils…
Whether you like it or not ,the basic orthodox Christology we all enjoy is predicated on 400 years of hard theological work to which we are all indebted.
There’s no reason to reinvent the wheel or do work that’s already been done.
I have a Bible.
“400 years of hard theological work”
The gospel of Christ is simple. The harder it gets, the more confusing it gets. I appreciate the views of one man rather than a council, since the council can be manipulated by the stonger personalities.
In the end, we all will be held accountable for what we believe apart from any councils.
#12 Gordo–thanks. I think you made my point well.
jerry
revisit #12 and #17–except for that inconsistent part and all that. other than that, yep.
#11–”The book of James has my doubts.” Whatever.
Yeah…”hard work”…defeating Arianism, fleshing out how we speak of the Trinity, etc. etc.
15:
A Bible assembled over time by the Church.
To All:
What: Council of Tampa
Where: At my home
When: 7:30 PM Tuesday the 7th of April
Why: As we put our collective heads together we hope to straighten out the doctrinal mess in the church
Everyone please bring one dessert and beverage. A nursery will be provided.
** As you can see, guys, without disrespecting anyone, I believe the councils are little more than curiosities and hold no more weight than any of my Bible School papers. Do a google search of all the church councils and you will find a plethera of meetings with wide and varied results and doctrinal opinions.
The orthodox/reformed crowd loves certain councils and uses them as proof of some of their doctrinal stands. How in the world can the opinions of a group of men be proof of anything except what they believed at that meeting (or at least the majority believed)?
Today we have so many more recourses with which to exstrapolate doctrinal truth from the written Scriptures, and on some level approaching the Scriptures with a knowledge of what others believed can affect our partiality. I know I sound arrogant and I know I have fun with it but I sincerely find the opinion of others, especially when given such weight because of the formality of the event, as dangerous and even slipping into “respector of persons”.
Paul did not go to the Council in Jerusalem to get their approval, he went to straighten out the Jewish believers. The scope of their meeting centered on the gospel itself, and although James still remained a legalist of sorts much good was done. All this was in the absense of the written New Testament.
I remain unconvinced that any council, which 99.9% of believers are happily ignorant of, are anything but ecclesiastical curiosities that are discussion topics for church history buffs but should be given no weight at all in matters of truth.
Every age of the church should flush out and be wholly committed to their own truth as revealed in Scripture by the Holy Spirit. It is altogether possible that some councils, maybe ones we like, got it wrong and through tacit acceptance the error has been carried into today. I do not believe what I believed based in any part upon a council, I believe what I believe, and have changed my beliefs somewhat through the years, because I have studied the Scriptures and asked for revelation.
I remain profoundly lacking, profoundly errant, profoundly humble, and profoundly abridged in my interpretations of the written Scriptures. But most of all I am profoundly wanting in living out the revelations that God has graciously allowed me to see and understand from His glorious Word.
Here is a modern day council.
You are right; we cannot create unity. It is already established and you are either walking in it or you are not. I do not want a twin brother, however I am looking for the true brothers.
This blog, and its Johnny one note message, is an example of God’s grace. I would have hit with a bolt of lightning long ago.
PB: Non negotiable? Jesus Christ, fully man, fully God, without sin did the work of justification on the cross, a sacrifice accepted by God evidenced by the resurrection from the dead This is accessed through belief; a saving faith given by God that makes a person who is dead in trespasses and sins alive in Christ. This is evidenced by a changed life; that is fruit in keeping with repentance (Matthew 3:8, Luke 3:8)
RA: I know I shouldn’t ask this, but I’m going to anyway because I am terribly curious now.
Given the above remarks by you regarding what is non-negotiable, I am somewhat amazed and befuddled by the following remarks that have appeared at various ODM websites/blogs.
They’ve all been directed at people who, to borrow your terms, believe/preach that Jesus Christ was/is fully man and fully God, without sin, who did the work of justification on the cross, a sacrifice accepted by God evidenced by the resurrection from the dead and that this is accessed through belief; a saving faith given by God that makes a person who is dead in trespasses and sins alive in Christ, which is evidenced by a changed life; that is fruit in keeping with repentance (Matthew 3:8, Luke 3:8):
NOTE: All quotes used by ODMs to support thier accusations are taken out of context and perverted:
The list of accusations goes on and on and on. Do tell…..how is it that these types of comments are being made by people you seem to support, and yet they are railing against the individuals who believe/preach that Jesus Christ was/is fully man and fully God, without sin, who did the work of justification on the cross, a sacrifice accepted by God evidenced by the resurrection from the dead and that this is accessed through belief; a saving faith given by God that makes a person who is dead in trespasses and sins alive in Christ, which is evidenced by a changed life; that is fruit in keeping with repentance (Matthew 3:8, Luke 3:8)?
RA
RA – Could you provide a wider context for the quote from Mike Ratliff?
Rick,
Certainly.
This condemnation appeared in the comments section of Ratliff’s article Unquestionable Authoritym which details his alleged interaction with me and my unwillingness to see the truth about Rick Warren.
Ratliff declares: “No matter how many times we point out the unbiblical aspects of the Purpose Driven Church model or the missing pieces of the Purpose Driven version of the gospel, the answer is always the same, ‘So What? That is just your opinion! You are trying to define the gospel differently than Rick understands it. So what if Rick leaves out the details of the gospel, it is still the gospel.’”
(Never mind the fact that Ratlifff here just totally misrepresented my entire position on Rick Warren, Warren’s preaching, Purpose Driven, and ODMs — predictable).
Ratliff then goes on to make all kinds of accusations and bizarre delusional claims about not only me, but also Rick Warren.
Afterward, one of his posters blathers: “. . . it sure seems he [Abanes] and Rick Warren pop up with this ‘oh don’t believe everything you read on the Web’ line every time someone posts a very good article exposing them on the web.”
Ratliff responds: “Amen Paula. I believe he is working on a new book dealing with this cult of apologists stuff. He is unregenerate and his focus is just like that of Rick Warren. It is all focused on the person and never on God. I often wonder if they are also partaking of the Open Theism kool-aid.”
He then lies as follows in the comments (March 10, 2009 at 12:27 pm): “This man has accused many of us who are teaching directly from God’s Word that we are unregenerate for teaching what he doesn’t like. On the other hand, I have not called him that. I have said that he has exhibited unregenerate behavior by him not listening to nor obeying what God’s Word says.”
That comment is totally untrue.
He then goes on to assert that I elevate a “Christless” Gospel: “He [Abanes] uses the fact that we refuse to allow him to elevate the watered-down, Christless “gospel” to the level of the genuine Gospel. We withstand this and he says we are unloving and mean, etc. Why? We refuse to compromise.”
There you go. Context.
RA
I am disappointed that Mike did not admit his comment was over the top, we’ve all done that. When someone, even someone with whom we stongly disagree on issues, points out a fault we should quickly admit to it and retract an errant statement.
Hatred breeds self righteousness which usually constructs entrenchment. I find the open statemnet that someone is unregenerate, especially someone like Richard, to be extremely unfortunate and unbiblical. A visceral dislike, rather than a dispassionate confrontation, often brings forth careless verbiage and obscures the point about truth you are making.
Mike should admit his mistake.
Everyone that disagrees with Mike Ratliff is unregenerate…
I thought everyone knew that already…
Reading that comment thread on Mike’s blog made my heart sad.
This comment to Mike from Ken was typical:
I’m not sure whether self righteous or adolescent is the appropriate adjective. Perhaps both.
#22:
I’m sure there are some who wish that gathering was a council.
Who is Mike Ratliff and why should anyone care?
I think it’s funny when KS uses the term “gnosticism”…
Seriously…over on SoL…only Ingrid could find a way to make Easter an opportunity to piss and moan.
Passover/Easter is not only an event, it is an attitude of the heart. It is possible to believe in the event, but deny that event in your life, even while you aggressively defend that event.
#23
Their statements belie their belief in the God of the Bible. A partial Jesus is a false Jesus. The Jesus of Mormonism is a false Jesus. The Jesus of Mars Hill in Michigan as proclaimed by Rob Bell is a false Jesus. The Jesus of most of the emergent churches is a false Jesus. The Jesus of the Shack is a false Jesus.
I am not called to unify with such people. I am called to avoid them.
How?
hmmmm…. “heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, 4 treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit,”
Seriously, there may be a lot of in Rob Bell’s theology… but the hate is somewhere else. You shall know them by their fruit. Mrs. Schlueters fruit is rotten and poisonous.
#35–you are absolutely unbelievable. You continue to find new ways to express your profound ignorance.
This post was about unity in the body of Christ.
For the most part, this thread has missed that.
;(
#38
I just realized that I added to the general mutual resentment with my comment. It’s easy to lift up a finger and point at someone else.
Pastorboy: I believe your zealous quest for doctrinal correctness is not out of a desire for self-righteousness but out of desire to please God. But sometimes (very often) I wish, people like you would be more gracious and realize that we are all on our way with God, trying to find our way together. If somebody takes a stray path you should not automatically assume that he is going astray and needs to be shunned. Rebuking is important, but it always comes with a responsibility to do this in love and patience. Be outspoken and clear about what you believe to be right, but please be humble, too.
#38
Well Jerry, I asked a serious question in #1, and all I get out of the ‘professional’ apologist RA is a bunch of insults and mockery.
So, I ask again, What is non-negotiable as far as beliefs we must hold to in order to be considered a believer in Christ? What is negotiable?
Only God knows who His followers are, I understand. But, as far as those we are to have unity with…what are the non-negotiable beliefs and lifestyle? What are the gray areas that are negotiable? I want to know your opinions.
room-
amen…but that is not all. I want to follow Jesus. I want to know that I (personally) am doing it right. I want to teach others what I have learned from the scripture. I want to do so in a kind yet straightforward manner. All the while, not to leave Jesus in the realm of theology and learning but in the everyday woven into my very fiber and being. It is not something I can accomplish; only by the power of the Holy Spirit.
You are not, nobody is.
#42
He could start by telling the truth about other pastors. ;0
PB: #23 Their statements belie their belief in the God of the Bible. A partial Jesus is a false Jesus.
RA: Please show the false “belief in the Bible” and the partial/false Jesus taught by:
- Erwin McManus,
- Kerry Shook,
- Rick Warren, and
- me.
THESE ARE THE PEOPLE MENTIONDE IN #23. Why are you talking about Rob Bell and The Shack? I mentioned neither of these topics/people in #23.
___________
PB: I asked a serious question in #1, and all I get out of the ‘professional’ apologist RA is a bunch of insults and mockery.
RA: Let’s hold on here a moment.
1. Why are you using the phrase “professional apologist” as if it’s a filthy term? Odd.
2. Why do you consider my post #23 as “a bunch of insults and mockery”? My #23 includes neither. Please quote an example of either. I asked a serious question myself that you apparently are unwilling to answer. I’ll state it again:
I’ve now added a 2nd question: “Why are you talking about Rob Bell and The Shack? I mentioned neither of these topics/people in #23?”
And a 3rd question: “Why do you consider my post #23 as “a bunch of insults and mockery”?
All three are serious. Please answer…..
RA
I am still unnerved by Mike R.’s suggestion that RA is not saved. It’s comments like those that dissolve any credibility.
I did answer….
The Jesus that they preach is not the Jesus of the Bible. It is a partial Jesus. It is a hippie cool Jesus like the one portrayed in the shack, the god of Rob Bell who says in the Grand Rapids Newspaper, while looking like a buddhist monk “The solidarity of people standing (together) who have been affected by cancer, there’s something divine in that” The only divinity in that is if they are born again followers of Jesus Christ.
I speak about Rob Bell, and the Shack, because these people, like Rob Bell, and the shack, portray a partial and false Christ.
RA
Its the condescending tone you use towards others that comes across in your writing.
If you meant nothing by it, I forgive you. Even if you did, I forgive you.
Peace.
What about Ingrid that presents a Jesus that hates gays, insults sinners, mocks teenagers, and is a capitalist? Isn’t that a false Jesus?
HUH?
This is Rob Bell again…is that REALLY the story of the Bible?
I cannot have oneness with that kind of teaching.
I thought the story of the Bible was a redemptive story, God bringing man back into relationship through the redemptive price paid by Jesus….
# 48
I think you have Ingrid confused with Fred Phelps. You seem to have a carichature painted in your mind of her.
I can read.
PB,
there you go again… misrepresenting Rob Bell, but worse Jesus.
Show me where God did not come to know how man feels and in that act bring our redemption? Jesus even bore our SIN! So Jesus now even knows the weight of sin that man carries! Simply God became a man and also learned suffering… as Hebrews 5 states:
Don’t you get this? Jesus was MADE PERFECT IN HIS SUFFERING as a man… and as a man learned obedience through suffering.
So again, in your ignorant zeal to spread untruth, you slander the very God you profess…
iggy
John,
I don’t care what you say about Rob. I am curious if you could provide a link where he looked like whatever you called him. I can’t imagine your reading the Grand Rapids press during your many flights down to the beach.
PB: I did answer….
RA: You answered nothing. First you say “a bunch of insults and mockery.” Then, when asked to produce examples, you can’t, you change it to something far less tangible like “the condescending tone” I use. Huh? Well, okay, if that’s the case, then how about quoting something condescending.
I asked a legit question that you STILL have not answered:
PLEASE answer that question!
You also replied to none of the other requests or questions:
1. Please show the false “belief in the Bible” and the partial/false Jesus taught by: Erwin McManus, Kerry Shook, Rick Warren, and me (see accusations in #23).
2. Why are you using the phrase “professional apologist” as if it’s a filthy term?
3. Why are you talking about Rob Bell and The Shack in connection to my post #23? I mentioned neither of these topics/people in #23.
RA
OK guys this is what I was talking about… John is on his “sick” cycle and there is no way to reason with him until he breaks out of it. So let’s pray for him… in earnest.
BTW I am not joking around… I seriuosly believe John to have an illness that makes him not see things as they are.
Rob Bell: evolving into a female buddhist monk?
You’re doing it wrong…
Joe – I read PB’s link several times and not only can I not find the Buddhist monk John refers to, I found the entire article most interesting. Rob is always provocative, but his take on suffering seems excellent.
This statement was great:
Joe – show me what I am missing.
John – you have made a demeaning statement about Rob Bell PERSONALLY that suggests he is turning into a Buddhist monk. Now explain that statement.
Regardless of your disagreements with him, he is a father, a husband, a pastor, and he deserves your respect even when strongly disagreeing.
The only think you’re missing is Pastor Boy’s malevolence combined with his willingness to lie.
From
Robert SchuellerTony Robbinsnope…Erwin McManus and the HERO you can become…Yep…Thats Biblical. That is all about the message of the Bible…Romans 3:9-19
How about Kerry Shook ? He is culture driven, opposed to the Gospel of Christ in his methods and approach to preaching (no matter what his statement of faith indicates). His sex sermon series, among his desire to ’show’ rather than ‘tell’ (in otherwords, he would rather have a motorcycle jump over his head or show a video than preach God’s Word)
Please, do not get me started on Rick Warren. There is VOLUMES of a false Jesus coming out of his mouth. Try Jesus on for 90 days…see if you like Him! God takes PLEASURE in watching you (even if you are not born again) walking in your purpose He created you for! How does that square with the wrath that is being stored up as we walk in rebellion? (See Psalm 7:11)
2. Why are you using the phrase “professional apologist” as if it’s a filthy term?
Because, brother, we are not Professionals (sorry, John Piper) Because you MOCK Ken Silva for his ‘apologist creds’ when all it is making a defense of Christianity, having an answer for the hope that lies within you, defending the faith against false teachers…and all you need for that is to be a Christian who studies the Word of God and who has the Holy Spirit indwelling and illumining the scripture. All of which Ken has, yet you mock him.
3. Why are you talking about Rob Bell and The Shack in connection to my post #23? I mentioned neither of these topics/people in #23.
I don’t know….The buddhist female monk is on my mind. I wonder if Bell is trying to look like Shariyu.
#59
Rick..you can read…can you see?
The picture makes him look like he is transforming into something different.
He is a false teacher and a Father and a Husband. Any church that would have him as Pastor after his teachings in this article alone I would have to question.
John – you obviously cannot have a decent conversation without using personal attacks and demeaning hyperbole. Defending Biblical truth with that strategy dismantles Biblical truth and reveals a doctrinal self esteem similar to Schueller’s teachings.
When Jesus told Peter to put down the sword He was teaching a principle that the end does not justify the means. You cannot, you MUST NOT, use the sword of the flesh to defend the Sword of the Spirit.
John is ill and needs our prayers.
iggy
To attack someone for their appearance is adolescent and self righteous. I do notice he is not overweight. Are you?
Neither am I. (he said with a self righteousness!)
#41
PB,
huh. sounds down right emergent. Seriously.
Please refrain from saying what everyone in Emergent is like because you don’t like the less than 5 people with bookdeals you happen to disagree with about certain things.
I would appreciate it since I don’t find you describing my beliefs and I have benefitted greatly from emergent–since it’s only a network of relationships and not a church or a theological cabal out to destroy the world in cahoots with the secret meetings of Hollywood and the Illuminati and the European Union.
Thank you.
Wow…..I don’t even know where to begin…….it’s sad, really. Utterly tragic….
RA
I want to publicly announce I am not overweight. John , are you?
Funny, Phil. I want to make the point that Rob Bell had nothing in his appearance that was unbiblical. Of course PB’s current link does not go to his blog where we can “assess” his appearance.
I also want to associate myself with RA’s comment. It is tragic when some believers live in glass houses with no mirrors. Some only see the Sword of the Spirit, not the Mirror of the Spirit.
http://www.riveroflifealliancechurch1.org
assess away, my friends.
Nothing different in my comments about Bell than on Iggy’s Online Discernmentalist Mafia. Actually, in Solomons Porch, it might be called a complement to have morphed into a Buddhist Monk.
#68
I could stand to lose a few pounds. Lets ask that of certain others here also, to be fair. How about Iggy? Bo Diaz? Chris L?
Actually, I could stand to eat less, exercise more. More importantly, I could pray more and study more and talk less. I think we all could.
John – some would question your wife wearing brtches and i think i saw a tattoo. Wow!
A nice family, John.
#67
\No Kidding. You can’t handle the truth, Abanes. Never could. Thats why you got Apprising 1 shut down. Thats why you slander Ken and others on your website.
But, there you go. Just a short example (my post) of all these false teachings. There is LOADS more….
But we want to bring unity, right? At any cost?
#74
You did see a tatoo, and my wife wearing Jeans (oh my) and we do use powerpoint.
My Tatoo: Isaiah 53:5 under a cross. I know. Very relevant.
Pastorboy,
I will pray for you. It is obvious that you and truth parted company long ago.
Sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, I will pray for you and hope the best for your life–and hope that you resolve whatever issues you might be dealing with on a personal level.
Jesus loves you.
peace in him,
RA
My son is filled with Scriptural tattoos. He is a former Ulimate Fighter, 6′2″ and 280 lbs with a shaved head and a beard. And when he is called on to pray over the communion elements he weeps like a baby and the Spirit of God fills the room.
He witnesses as much as do you, John. Everywhere and anytime.
Appearances, my friend, can be deceiving.
John,
You are an enigma to me. At least sometimes I think you are. Take this thread for example. You are alternately nice and then an ass (the female buddhist comment deserves that). I take turns believing you are nothing more than a toned down Fred Phelps or a sincere but mislead person, who has no understanding of social graces. I don’t know. That’s the honest truth. Your lies have been well-documented. From what you had on your site about Tim Reed, to what you write about Rabanes shutting down Ken’s site. Even Ken’s accounting admits that Ken pulled the plug before he thought iPower (or whoever) was going to do so. Rob’s wearing a running jacket in that picture. Do you honestly not know what monks wear? Are you just crass to be crass?
I know that many here are about to get their undies all bunched up, but seriously, do you know what it means to follow Christ?
Ok boys, commence getting undies wadded up, those are my honest questions and thoughts.
#58.
I think you’re missing that there are some, who despite the fact that they will travel hundreds of miles to bark at people about the gospel, and who may well be well intentioned are incapable of telling the truth.
You know in John’s video he has the exact type of hat that a guy down the street from me used to wear. That guy that lived down the street from me used to run a porn shop that got shut down for illegal activity. Now, can we play GBA with that?
#77
I answered your question. You just do not like the answer.
I think he looks like a female buddhist Monk, without the orange outfit.
Praying for John… that he may find the Grace of God…
iggy
I find it completely unseemly to demean someone’s pastor, especially when you know that Rob is Joe’s pastor. Have you no shame? Or class? Or Christianity?
I find the entire conversation as counter productive to the cause of Christ when people are demeaned personally and called names. We teach our children not to call others names and then we do it? There is a name for that.
PB,
You have not proved a thing except for my claim of your being delusional and ill…
My prayers are for you…
iggy
Rick,
I have learned that some people are just angry and mean. Beyond God intervening in their life, there is no hope. Of course, that is true of all of us, but sometimes I am reminded of that more than at other times.
Rob Bell has stood with and comforted families as they wept over a loved one who has died. He has married people who now have families and are serving Christ. He has led people to Christ who family members had been praying for. He has helped raise money for hungry and poor people in other countries. He has supported missionaries.
I have strongly disagreed with him on some things, however I count him as a brother in Christ and as being used of God in people’s lives. We must see people as Christ sees them, even when we disagree with them.
I am sorry.
His hairstyle and glasses make me think of a buddhist monk.
sorry.
re: 89
I thought it was a female buddhist monk?
Don’t you think that Rob Bell looks like a woman? Maybe he’s turning homosexual?
Mark Driscoll says here that he would never, ever let Bell preach in his pulpit or allow any of his books to be sold in his church. But he does not speak about him as a person.
He does, though, say that men like Kimball love Jesus as opposed to Bell and McLaren. Wierd stuff.
PB,
It would have one thing is it was meant as fun… and that you were being funny… but to state Rob Bell serves a false God then state he looks like a buddhist monk seems outright vindictive and unloving.
Apparently though you cannot even understand that is wrong… let alone how many people in this thread you have lied about. It is a compulsion with you to lie about others and really it saddens me unto no end. My heart breaks when you go into your episodes…
My prayers are with and for you… may God heal you.
iggy
Mark Driscoll is a Calvinist… Rob Bell is Arminian… and that is why MD would not allow RB to preach in his church…
iggy
#91
He also said something about repenting of the false teaching…
#93 – that is not what Mark was saying at all.
It always amazes me how focused on externals Pastor Boy and his ADM cronies are.
Rick,
Mark states, of a repentance of some of their doctrine… the doctrinal difference is between Calvinism and Arminianism…
And Mark is off a bit… McLaren/Bell talks of sin, repentance and faith in Jesus… yet these are not ALL the bible is about and are not ALL the main teachings of scripture…
iggy
I do wonder what Mark thinks of N. T Wright…
iggy
Mark made the difference between Kimball by saying he loves Jesus. I am sure Driscoll has Arminian authors in his bookstore.
His assessment had nothing to do with Arminianism.
You could be right Rick… I will let you have this one..
John 13:34, 35
“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one
another.”
Good verse, M.G.. I still consider myself more “conservative” than most who write and comment here, but I have learned to love the brethren in spite of any differences. Unity does not always mean doctrinal unity, it can and should mean unity of the heart and unity in Christ.
And perhaps some here have learned to love someone like me who they know has different views and comes across strong on things that they might not see the same way. Isn’t that the way it should be?
There is a difference between PB’s version of the bible that teaches “unity in doctrine” which is not taught in Scripture and “unity of the Spirit” which is.
What is surprising is that no where does the bible state that we are to have “unity of doctrine”… Those that have false teaching are described as arrogant… I think that the biggest false teachings is that doctrine saves us as opposed to Jesus… They will not admit to this but they teach it… Right belief = Salvation.
They forfeit Christ for doctrines… they forfeit the Life of Christ for rule…
iggy
Rick & Iggy,
A MAJOR problem with Pastorboy is that none of us can talk to him about unity of ANYTHING — spirit or doctrine — because he insists on attributing doctrines to people when they don’t even teach/believe those doctrines!
That kind of makes it hard for him to understand whether he should be in unity with them. This, of course, is a much bigger problem than simply should I be in unity with XYZ.
There’s only hope if you’re dealing with someone who can say, “Okay, I believe this,” and then they can accurately look at someone else and say, “Okay, they believe that.”
A comparison can then be made and discussed.
But in pastorboy’s case — i.e., as in the case with all ODMs, they attribute to others all kinds of kooky things from new Age mysticism, to hindu thought, to occult practices and black magick.
That sort of ends all hope for rational discourse. The conversation is over before it can even begin.
RA
Jerry, it seems like I remember disagreeing with you at some point. It was when you first started posting, and although I seem to remember fervently disagreeing with you, now I cannot remember what it was about. It must not have been very important after all.
Any way, not to show my brown nose or anything, but your entries are so inspiring. You are a great teacher!
AJ,
I appreciate hearing that more than I can even tell you. I have done a lot of growing up and growing down since I first started blogging here. Along the way, God’s grace got hold of me and He hasn’t let go. Thank you, sincerely.
jerry
Pastorboy:
What exactly does that have to do with his theology? He could even dress like a buddhist monk… it still wouldn’t mean that his theology is off. Whatever the purpose of your comment was. It’s totally irrelevant to assessing the “Jesus Rob Bell preaches”.
Uhm… btw: http://www.fotosearch.com/bthumb/DGV/DGV636/1535061.jpg
R2B,
To PB and those like him the outside of the cup is everything.
I love this little anectdote:
At Midway Christian Church in the mid 1800’s the preacher allowed a small organ to be brought into the sanctuary and accompany the singing. Some strongly objected.
One elder, Adam Hibler, was so upset he came one night with his slave Reuben,and took the organ outside and destroyed it. The elder knew that destroying church property was God’s will and he desired to disciple his slave about church instruments. Two birds with one stone!
Apparently, and to his credit, the slave learned that the organ was unbiblical too.
#103
Iggy, quit lying about me.
I seek (and none of you have answered) a unity in the teachings of the scripture. I am not speaking about church doctrine; I am speaking about the scripture. Doctrine should certainly be informed and based upon scripture, yet not contridictory of scripture. (so much of it is not, see transubstansiation)
The life of Christ of which you so mystically speak is imparted when one is Born Again by God. This life; the indwelling Holy Spirit, gives us discernment based upon right teaching, which is continually exhorted by Paul to Titus and Timothy to make sure that the teaching is right. Jude- contend for the faith John- keep his commandments, ..throughout the New Testament we see the theme repeated over and over.
And with guys like Abanes, Warren, Iggy, Shook, McManus, Diaz, McLaren, Jones, Bell, and Pagitt running around…we need the TRUTH of scripture much more than ever to be able to discern error and walk uprightly in this present age.
#107
Thanks for the idea.
John,
I’m sure (I’m hoping) you are just trying to be funny with that post.
However, in view of your clear dislike for Rob, it is not amusing.
The word “tasteless” comes to mind…in my opinion.
PB,
I think it’s telling that you choose to employ a religious office that’s inextricably bound to a specific ethnicity (and its attendant stereotypes) as an insult.
And you also connected it with femininity.
Honest question, is being Asian really an insult to you? Because that strikes me as blatantly racist. I hope that’s not the case.
PB,
Are yo serious that you cannot find unity with others in scripture?
The unity is the unity in Spirit… the Holy Spirit…
Paul then goes on to state that some people are gifts to the Body to help reach this unity of the Spirit…
It the unity we share in Christ Jesus… not doctrine…
BTW… PB you have a partial gospel and Jesus… and a very low Christology at that.
Also I have not stated on lie about you… if so show me… it is obvious you are ill… painfully obvious to many of us… and I am praying for you.
iggy
Congrats PB, just when everyone thinks your complaints about anyone and everyone can’t get anymore stupid, inane, or petty you find a way to go even lower. Kudos.
I demand you remove yourself from the pulpit since you openly admit disregarding Scriptural truth concerning gluttony and the destruction of God’s temple. And your attitude toward your sin seems nonchalant and careless while your assessment of others seems much more passionate and disturbed.
Of course if you parse the truth of Scripture and consider disobedience of some truth as acceptable then you may disregard my loving admonition.
What if there were a picture of Rob Bell wearing a Marine Corp hat, or wearing some cammo, or playing paintball?
Would PB have put a picture up opining whether Rob Bell is morphing into a Lance Corporal, U.S. Marine Corp?
Unlikely.
No, PB thinks that Rob Bell looks effete and weak. And the point of calling him a female Buddhist monk is to insult as effete and weak.
So for PB, Asian = effete and weak.
PB, please tell me otherwise.
Just to nip it in the bud, can we not go here:
PB, I seem to remember the outrage you had last month at a number of articles when I noted on the petty, externals-focused garbage of Ingrid, yourself and others.
If you want an example of what I’m talking about, you need go not further than your current vector of denigration.
The word “Christian” tends to be translated as “little Christ” or “like to Christ”. At this point in the conversation, I see only one person acting in a manner unbefitting of that title, and sadly, it is the one person’s whose nome de plume claims some sense of Christian authority.
Sad.
I must admit that I find it quite curious and disingenuous of Mark Driscoll to publicly proclaim Bell such a heretic that he discourages anyone from reading anything he has written. Coming from Driscoll who’s own teachings and relativistic methodlology have drawn such criticism it seems very pompous. He seems to desire to take on the ministry of discernment somewhere in the middle.
And when you say “go ahead and read Kimball, I know him personally and HE loves Jesus” you are again becoming the looking glass into a man’s heart and the guide for the people who now follow . At one time he thought Bell loved Jesus too.
I find it self serving and self righteous that instead of isolating men’s teachings, you boldly proclaim divine insight into who loves Jesus because “I know them personally”. I believe the “I know them personally” translates into “They agree with me in general”.
Are we to assume from his statement that Rob Bell does not love Jesus? That is the unmistakeable inference. I continue to find Mark Driscoll’s style and verbiage to come across as hyperauthoritative, lacking humility, and dismissive.
Driscoll will be happy to know that in many quarters some believe and teach that neither he nor Bell love Jesus. I believe they both love Jesus, but ultimately that is between them and God. I have a full time job overseeing the depth of my own love for Christ.
“vector of denigration”
I award Chris a gold star!
(I may practice literary thievery in the near future.)
91:
Isn’t that funny…
Like MD is taking “a stand” that assumes RB is hankering to speak there.
What a self-inflated ass
119:
the underlying assumption by MD is that if you “say things the way I say them” then you really love Jesus.
#122 – Of course MD used to be one of “them”. But true to form, he seems to thirst for the limelight and to be viewed as an intellectual rebel.
Let us review:
Driscoll went from emergent – to – Rob Bell is my friend but I have some issues – to – I would advise against reading anything he writes and I would call the state troopers and national guard to keep him from taking over this pulpit. (The last part was a self serving hyperbole that I found humorous!)
The longer I live the less interested I am in what people are against. I don’t care who you don’t like, or what you don’t believe. Tell me what you do like and what you do believe.
Which is why the ADMs are so uninteresting as anything but examples of extreme behavior, they’re not defined by anything but what they’re against.
I like Notre Dame.
This is also one of the many differences between Jesus and his enemies.
Jesus came to build the kingdom of God.
His enemies were looking to destroy the kingdom of Rome.
I like tortilla chips and salsa.
Bo – You make an excellent point, simple and yet profound. Christ died to save His enemies, not destroy them. Good insight.
I wonder if MD would be allowed to speak at Mars Hill GR? Want to take bets that he’s not even on the radar?
The snare of needing to be right is subtle and anti-Christ.
Jesus gave up His rights, and as He was being murdered, He asked the Father to forgive the very ones (us) who robbed Him of His rights.
When I meditate, even briefly, on this marvel, my need to be right diminishes quickly.
And I’m once again amazed by grace.
And when I’m amazed by grace, I’m less likely to find little things with which to find fault.
#116
How do you know it is gluttony? How do you know it isn’t the fact that I used to play football and I stopped working out and with age it dropped to my belly? You don’t.
And if you all hated my original post, you will really hate the updated one where I used quotes and facts and scripture to demonstrate that Bell not only looks like a buddhist monk….but he acts and speaks like one too.
And Iggy, according to Rick’s standard, you better not be correcting me any more.
#117
No, because Rob Bell’s teachings are not those of a Marine. They are more in line with new-age buddhism, as I have demonstrated here
And yet RA, that great ‘apologist’ would rather attack ‘ODM’s’ than the clear New Age teaching coming from Mars Hill Michigan.
I applaud Mark Driscoll for coming out and speaking the truth, here.
PB,
Considering I am also a pastor and ordained… we are equals. I have not corrected you as a pastor, but as one who teaches false doctrine and claims to teach truth. Also, I do not agree with Rick on many points, yet we can fellowship in Christ where you seem to have “another Jesus” that does not allow this.
Now to prove my point, you are stating that the unity we share as Christians through the suffering of Jesus is not scriptural… but again, as I seem to always do with you, I will simply point out what the bible states.
The correction from me has always been the Truth of the Bible that you seem determined to claim is a lie.
So the correction you hate is that of God’s Truth from the Bible… and not from me.
The bottom line is that you are in rebellion to the Bible and the Spirit of Jesus in that you desire to harm others and bear false witness against them.
iggy
Well, John, earlier I said your post was tasteless.
Now it has morphed into ridiculous and laughable through assumptions and leaps of logic that defy sound reason.
Far from improving that post with “facts,” you’ve made it worse with your prejudice.
PB,
If this was about theology, why did you originally say that RB was specifically becoming a female monk?
And why would you then post the photos with no text?
And then use a quote from Rob Bell where he is talking about the *value* of suffering, which, if anything, is very nearly the *opposite* of Buddhist teaching.
It seems more likely that you said some childish things, and are now covering your tracks.
Its hilarious in its own way, PB is ignorant both of what Buddhists teach and what Rob Bell teaches, but doesn’t let that stop him from slandering one with the other.
You mean besides the fact that muscle “dropping” is scientifically impossible? Now, I’ll give you that fat does not equal gluttony but come on, did they have science and health classes where you went to school?
PB,
Do you know that New Thought and Buddhism are distinct religious traditions? You seem to conflate them, and it honestly doesn’t make any sense when you are arguing Rob Bell is a female Buddhist monk.
I can see and I have used my discernment abilities to make a substantive and absolute assessment even though I have never met you or been to your church. And it feels real good.
Does that sound familiar?
I found this fascinating and also rather humorous…
PB has condemned my site over and over here… and yet it seems he sees fit to do the same thing himself.
Again… the hypocrisy! “lol”
This is what I mean…
link
Now it seems fact is stranger than fiction, but the real question is… which is fact and which is fiction? It seems that my satire site is more accurate about ODM’ s and ADM’s than PB’s so called “research”…
iggy
BTW note the date on the post at ODMafia?
Crud… that “code” thing hit again… please feel free to fix it as you have time.
I am just wondering…
how is iggy and Richard Abanes promoting Christian Unity?
133:
Even if it wasn’t gluttony, you’ve clearly let yourself go.
Is that honoring the temple of the Holy Spirit?
I know a woman who was so sanctimonious about drinking and smoking, but she was so out of shape that her doctor told her that she might as well have been smoking and drinking because of the problems she was experiencing.
meh…serves her right, too. And everyone like her.
PB: how is iggy and Richard Abanes promoting Christian Unity?
RA: I can’t speak for Iggy, bu as for me, I’m being obedient to scripture by pointing out the sinful, divisive, disobedient, slanderous behavior of accusers of the brethren who are unnecessarily dividing the Body of Christ under the guise of serving God:
“You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.”
Exodus 20:15
“Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness.”
Exodus 23:1
“A perverse man stirs up dissension and a gossip separates close friends.”
Proverbs 16:28
“An angry man stirs up dissension.”
Proverbs 29:22
“A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will perish.”
Proverbs 19:9
“Whoever slanders his neighbor in secret, him will I put to silence …”
Psalms 101:5
“Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice.”
Ephesians 4:31
“Remind the people to … slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.”
Titus 3: 1-2
“Therefore rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy and slander of every kind.”
1 Peter 2:1
Richard Abanes
PB,
I would be interested in your thoughts re: 137, 140. I must confess, I’m confused how you got from saying RB looks like a female monk to RB is really teaching buddhist beliefs (by quoting New Age teachers).
Strikes me as some sleight of hand.
I have rarely found such a piece of volitional ignorance and literary barbarism as I have read on John Chisham’s current post that barely resembles the English language and is completely void of common human logic, much less any thoughtful Christian issues. I have now come to a deeper conclusion about the pattern of human dishonesty juxtaposed upon a paper thin Christian template.
Let me bring this down from my self serving erudition and offer it in a trough of common understanding. There has arisen in the blog gallery something I call “Pictures at an Exhibition” which frame a 21st century literary style that I now call “vicious goofiness”. It contains the unmistakeable strokes of ODM viciousness that use the same tired and unimaginative colorings of dismissiveness, vileness, and personal contemptuousness that identifies the classical period of discernment barbarism, along with the base goofiness that is openly void of any common sense or Biblical maturity.
These literary paintings in that vicious goofiness style are usually painted by an artist longing for some significance within the ODM sphere along with the applause of the patrons of their particular blog gallery. They mean nothing, they carry no spiritual weight, they have no substance, and they display as much itellectual prowess as does a kindergartner’s first finger painting.
The artist fromerly known as “PastorBoy” has risen from obscurity and has now achieved status as an accomplished virtuoso in the ODM arts and sciences, specializing in the destruction of people and persons with which they find savage inspiration displayed on the walls of their personal literary galleries.
But as you stand and gaze at these framed posts, you begin to realize that instability really does provide artistic creativity which can only be described as…vicious goofiness. Someday these literary portraits may be worth something, but until that day they are only uncomfortable displays of a carnal mind.
But instead of cutting off their ear to prove their sincerity, perhaps their lips would be much better.
And the ambiguous “Editor” calls it “satire.”
RICK: “vicious goofiness”
RA: This is a perfect term for their unique brand of mean-spirited word-play (which they apparently find terrifically clever) and their juvenile name-calling/mockery (which they apparently equate with godly correction).
RA
PB,
thanks for promoting the divisiveness of Phil Johnson and how he seemingly is hiding his past as he self righteously attacks Mark Driscoll for using “crude” humor.
BTW the ODMafias sole purpose is to show the hypocrisy that the Truth War is and call those who perpetrate it on others to repentance and come to the Unity that is in Christ.
It is not about being divisive as almost every post and comment you make does… it is taking the stupidity and unbiblcal ideas that you and your friends teach and showing them with humor how far from Biblical truth the Truth War is.
Also, you have now stated I am a false teacher… yet there is not one proof…
Show me from my page here where I am a false teacher.
I have seen more false teaching from you over and over than I have seen from cultists… and you get soooo angry when I simply post scripture to rebuke you…
All that means to me is you seem to hate the truth and love the lie.
iggy
Pastorboy, you are THE contextomy expert! Wikipedia should add this and this as examples of quote mining.
The whole point is that the large part of the visible church is departing from scripture, their teachings are false, or at least have enough falsehood in them to be dangerous in that they sound true, and are so bibically ignorant that they will believe anything.
And we must not have unity with such people. We must correct them and reprove them according to the Word of God. And, like Mark Driscoll, we must warn our people to stay away from their stuff, and never ever allow them into the church to fool our people, unless they repent of their false teaching.
And yet still, with all your ad hominems, you cannot answer post #1. And you RA still cannot retort truth with truth, so he must publish lies.
blah, blah, blah, the sky is falling, blah, blah, blah, the last days, blah, blah, blah, the worst generation, etc., etc.
It’s always the last days/worst generation/etc., etc. – especially when your very livelihood depends on people believing the veracity of such claims (even when absent any concrete evidence). Personally, I think that today, from a Christian perspective, is a darn sight better than Rome under Domitian (or dozens of other time periods in the past 2000 years). But that’s just sayin’…
Apparently, PB, wearing a black running suit with a close-shaven hairstyle has become a non-negotiable, worthy of declaring a brother in Christ to be “evolving into a female buddhist monk”…
If you’re going to ask questions about “non-negotiables” and then almost immediately turn around and prove that your mental capacity is incapable of rising above externals-based “majoring in the minors”, how you can ever hope to be taken seriously is beyond me…
Unsubstantiated blather…
Very true, perhaps, but you and your camp is blind to your own significant variance. Your verbiage, judgment, condescension, hatred, adolescent hyperbole, and lack of either love or humility reveals that you have your hands securely on the helm of this off course ship along with some of those you castigate.
You are every bit in need of revival as anyone who provides a theme for your posts.
PB: ….. the large part of the visible church is departing from scripture, their teachings are false, or at least have enough falsehood in them to be dangerous in that they sound true, and are so bibically ignorant that they will believe anything.
Mormon Founder, Joseph Smith: “[God declared]. . . . they [Christendom's churches] were all wrong; . . . [God] said that their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt”
(from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:19).
Mormon Apostle, James Talmage: “….there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ”.
JW Founder, Charles Taze Russll: “They (the clergy) somehow realize that neither reason nor Scripture supports their false doctrines.”
Branch Davidian Founder, David Koresh: “Christendom, much as the Jehovah’s Witnesses describe it, the same melting-pot, was frequently described as doomed. And the word ‘Christendom’ was frequently used to describe that, which was apostate” (views of Koresh, as explained by historian Bill Lawton).
The list goes on and on with cult leaders and followers — e.g., Jim Jones, Moses David Berg, Victor Paul Wierwille — saying essentially the same thing we have PB declaring.
A foundational teaching of many cults, if not most cults, is the assertion that all (or nearly all) of Christendom has gone (or is going) apostate.
We see this being repeated now again and again by not only PB, but the likes of Ingrid Schlueter and Ken Silva, who have stated that nearly all of evangelicalism is now apostate.
Thank you, PB (and company). You prove, yet again, what I have been saying.
Richard Abanes
Evangelicalism is now officially apostate with the fruit of its teachings displayed in full color by its youth”
Oh, what we do without that woman to make everything “official”.
Another sign that the ship has veered.
The author of Hebrews will debate with Abanes:
PB – you do realize that to effectively use a proof-text, it requires enough context to prove that it applies to a situation, rather than just being tossed out in the same manner as “I’m rubber and you’re glue…”
Right?
To wit, I could quote the exact same verse, pointed toward you, and it would (just as equally) be my self-righteous, sanctimonious means of saying “I’m holier than you are, you are immature, and you can’t handle
solid foodmy opinion.”It has nothing to do with Abanes & solid food, but rather the stupidity of the accusations you bandy about like a toddler with a machete…
PB,
You are obeying the writer of Hebrews every bit as much as the other individuals RAbanes quoted.
What translation is this from? I just preached from this three weeks ago and I don’t recall seeing the words ‘powers of discernment’ anywhere in that text.
Anyone recall what I posted in the HYPE & HYSTERIA thread? It seems PB forgot:
And we now see it again, this time from Hebrews…….sigh. Forunately, though, no flies or whoredoms mentioned this time around.
RA
#162
The ESV, of course!
Oh the ESV. The translation that where only the parts the translators disagreed this were “retranslated”.
What’s the difference between that and the Scholar’s Version? Oh, right, Reformed type folks agree with these changes.
Dear Pastorboy,
I am really curious here, and I am giving you an open shot. Will you please list the false doctrines (or heresy) that I teach/preach — and provide quotes from any of my books or online posts.
Please feel free to bring up any false doctrines concerning:
God
Jesus
soteriology
thanatology
eschatology
_______ [fill in blank]
Given your previous remarks, I would imagine that this would be an easy thing to answer……
Thank you,
RAbanes
#94, 100 I think the issue is addressed on the sermon on Emerging Church as one of the Religion Saves & 9 other misconceptions series. Just thought I would put that in there if people wanted more info from the source as Mark is the speaker on this occasion.
Here is a great piece of foolish mocking that is supposed to pass as serious discernment. Listen at the end and you will discover adolescent naughtiness that produces giggles from its host.
Real profound.
Oh yeah, Rosebrough likes to giggle on his show. Hmm, I never heard Dr. Walter Martin giggle on The Bible Answer Man like he was 14 years old. I guess I missed those shows.
This is so embarrassing. I guess that’s why they have age-appropriate guidelines on toy boxes. Too bad you don’t need to be 21 to buy equipment for a radio station.
RA
I was actually offended at such careless levity that uses a baseball analogy in the context of Christian martyrdom.
It is shameful in the extreme.
If you listen closely, he actually……well, he sounds positively taken with himself, just tickled as can be with his own assumed cleverness and hilarity. Again, just plain embarrassing.
I feel bad for CR. I really do. Years ago he apparently demonstrated the capacity to be a good apologist and thinker, or so I’m told. But……..well, I don’t think I need say much more.
His own mentor is ashamed of his behavior and the course he’s taken. It’s really too bad.
RA
Giggling doesn’t bother me… it is the idea that RW sermons can be torturous… well I can’t sit through one of John MacArthur’s either… or many other of the so-called ODM approved… Paul Washer is an Arminian dress as a Calvinist who preaches works without the aid of the Holy Spirit to bring revival… he preaches that clearly in his 10 Indictments… yet not one person seems to catch it!
Seriously he states in the beginning of his sermon:
Sorry?
God already did that at the Cross… and without the Holy Spirit involved in “cleaning up the mess we made” it is all hay and stubble and will amount to NOTHING!
That is not true “revival” that is humanism… but Paul is accepted and Rick Warren is the Antichrist pope of Riverside Ca…
Sheesh… how far from the truth these people have wandered…
iggy