pastoral behavior
Posted by Nathan on Aug 20th, 2008
2008
Aug 20
Ingrid wrote a very touching piece on adoption, sharing some of her own personal experience on the subject. It really had a beautiful message for her readers.
BUT THEN…
Pastor-Teacher Ken Silva decided to tack this headline onto it and use it for his own agenda. Talk about taking something meant for good and using it for selfish gain.
A side of the so-called “ODMs” that hunters of heresy hunters, say like a Richard Abanes, might wish you wouldn’t see.
That’s all I have to say. You be the judge on motives, intentions and whether or not this sounds like pastoral behavior to you.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Nathan - if you attack person in a post that has nothing to do with him, you expose an unattractive part of your heart. Chad also is an adoptive parent and the post should have been soley about the children and not some continuing skirmish.
There are many things about which I disagree with Mrs. Schlueter, but her heart for adoption makes her pro-life stand extremely credible.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
All,
Since Ken Silva is so fond of posting private emails, here’s what I wrote in a private email to Ingrid Schlueter on July 22, 2008 1:31:16 PM. It is relevant to your post, Nathan, and perhaps it will send a message to not only Silva, but also the public:
And in a follow up email to Ingrid, where I explained how I knew she had adopted, I wrote in another private email:
It was after I sent this message to Ingrid, that she decided to do a radio show that featured criticisms of me, going so far as to imply that I condemn all believers in the Bible as psychologically sick, and that I deny the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. You can hear her show on me at *Crosstalk* Abanes Likens Christian Bloggers to David Koresh? (August 13, 2008).
I have tried to make peace……..
Richard Abanes
August 20th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
“if you attack person in a post that has nothing to do with him, you expose an unattractive part of your heart.”
Hmm, so how about a guy like Rick who hangs around looking for things that have nothing to do with him in order to tattle on others.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:38 pm
Richard - Nathan’s post was about Ken’s intro not about Ingrid.
August 20th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Richard, I can appreciate what you dealing with, but your reaction…does this really help to solve anything or just fanning the flames more?
I really hate to say this, but it’s kind of Silva-esque.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
This is a response to show how Ken and similar persons often speak attacks in the absence of knowledge to make such remarks. That’s what I was trying to show.
RAbanes
August 20th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
You’re playing his game in the process.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Richard,
You failed to mention what happened shortly after I got your emails–namely your attack on Apprising. That was the equivalent to throwing a grenade into any reconciliation. I just wanted to make it clear that I was not for war while you were for peace.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
I see,
So Richard Abanes can use non-pastoral behavior to illustrate how non-pastoral another pastors behavior is?
I get it.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
Richard,
I have to agree with the crowd here. I think that this was a little in following with what I wrote about in the piece. Using a moment to further your own gain.
to Ken
WOW. Irony is just ooozing out of this comment
August 20th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
It is a shame Ken has to take something holy and turn it into another opportunity to speak ill of someone.
While I do not see eye to eye with Ingrid theologically I support any and all who do what they can to answer God’s cry for the orphan. If we can rally around real issues like this we can be united in even more. I think our heavenly Father, who adopted all of us, is grieved over the way his children treat one another.
peace.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
How about everyone take a deep breath, forget adding any more posts, and spend time praying for the 143 million orphans in the world.
Since I have adopted a little one from China and about to adopt another from Ethiopia, I would appreciate your prayes for him or her.
Thanks,
Darren
August 20th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Amen, Darren.
Where in Ethiopia is your future son/daughter coming from? We brought a brother and sister home in May.
God bless you and your growing family!
August 20th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
We don’t know yet. We actually have a special needs dossier in China right now as well. Due to the size of our family, (3 biological/1 adopted), both countries have us on a case-by-case basis, so we are waiting for the Lord to bring us a referral.
We will either adopt one special needs in China and 1 to 2 little ones from Ethiopia.
Pray for our sanity as well.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
PB,
Look again.
Did you read through the thread for comprehension, or did you read it just to respond?
Ken, Rick and I responded critical of Richard. (Was Ken in the moderation box? I didn’t see his comment at first.)
Richard responded.
I rebutted.
Ingrid offered further clarity in her defense.
Four of the six applicable comments were negative toward Richard’s action.
I doubt it.
August 20th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Well, based on these remarks, I think I’ll just let it go. Blog comment sections, it seems, are actually rather worthless when it comes to trying to communicating subtle meanings and making certain points.
And to Ingrid, what happened with Apprising Ministries had nothing to do with you.
So, .INFO, PP, slice, apprising, CRN, etc. etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum, I do pray for all of you and others in this ongoing war. But it is a war that will have no winner–a war that I do not think will solve anything or help anyone.
I think instead of trying to make change through dialogue, I’m just going to go out to the lost and love them (thank you, Erwin McManus for the message “Joy365″).
RAbanes
August 21st, 2008 at 12:07 am
Interesting developments…
Jesus is still Lord. Whew.
August 21st, 2008 at 2:12 am
RIchard,
As you might recall in our own email exchange… and I will not state it excactly…
But… there is no winning with these people. They get you on a list and then calim you hate them… while they are the one’s tossing “handgranades” and gas on the fire…
Yes… they claim the doctrines of Grace, yet deny them in their actions…
All one can do is state our side… then let God do His job on them… and He is… He will not let the unjust win.
I agree though, there seems to be an “illness” about some of them…
On another note to all. John Cardwell is having a birthday in the next few days. He is a writer at CRN and is a good guy.
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 8:07 am
Yeah…like writing a hate blog that insults brothers and sisters in Christ and making veiled threats using association with Hells Angels….
Yep..these people…
August 21st, 2008 at 8:22 am
PB,
You threatened me and I stated though i was big enough to handle myself I would not fight you… get it straight my friend… and don’t twist it to what it was not.
You threatened me… remember…
You stated, “take care of it man to man”…from where I came from that was a threat…
You cleared it up… so stop spreading rumors and lies about me.
Also, it is satire not a hate site. I am mean as I am one of you… and it seems that you catch the mean, but miss I am writing as one of you ODM’s…hmmm so maybe more, you are admitting YOU are mean and hateful….?
iggy
Bigfoot still hates me…
August 21st, 2008 at 8:26 am
And you wonder why I don’t want anything to do with you PB… you seem to love to twist and turn things on their head and lie about me… why would I want to meet you and have coffee with you?
LOL!
Praying you overcome that sin if lying… sigh….
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 8:41 am
Iggy,
Coffee is enough to bring Obama and McCain together!
It is the social glue, the tie that binds. If it is good coffee, than it will be a good trip.
I never threatened you. Man to Man means face to face. You were the one who came up with the whole Hells Angels thing.
And I have explained that your site is a hate site to me and it is mean in its spirit (if not in intent)
August 21st, 2008 at 8:41 am
Bigfoot is dead. They caught him in Georgia.
August 21st, 2008 at 8:51 am
John,
Come to Grand Rapids, and you can buy me coffee and a sandwich.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:13 am
How about you all come to South Africa. I’ll make the coffee. And I have a swimming pool for cooling down if the discussion gets to hot.
August 21st, 2008 at 9:20 am
PB,
You are lying and you know it…. so please stop…
Why can’t you just admit you just lied about me and that conversation… and apologize… is that so hard?
I stated those things to show where I came from and that I would not fight you… you stated later what you meant… but from where I came from… it was a threat.
I forgive you for lying about me… again… and will over and over… but please stop doing it.
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 9:23 am
BTW the site is like that Marcus Welby character…
“I am not a DR though I play one on TV…”
I am not an ODM though I play one on my site…”
If you see that I am mean or hateful… then you see what others see in your site, Slice, Apprising Ministries, CRN… and other ODM sites… it is a reflection of you and your actions…
Do not project your mean an hate on me… look at your own heart…
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 9:55 am
Booking my flight now
August 21st, 2008 at 9:57 am
:dancing for joy face:
August 21st, 2008 at 10:01 am
Iggy,
When’s the last time I published rumors about your past and possible drug use? When is the last time CRN or Slice published false pregnancy rumors in the comment section about you or someone’s elses wife and said she was missing work because of morning sickness? (I’ve actually had to respond to a couple of people who believed it, one of whom was a family member.) That’s not being like the Marcus Welby character, that’s being like the publisher of the Midnight Star, reporting on alien abductions and 300 pound newborns. In other words, you’re making things up out of thin air about Christians for entertainment purposes. The fact that you could continue doing this when others have told you its damaging and harmful says a lot about your character.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am
Excuse me. Let me re-write a sentence there. I wasn’t suggesting that pregnancy rumors about Iggy would be credible.
“When is the last time I published false pregnancy rumors in the comment section about YOUR or someone else’s wife…”
I haven’t had coffee yet. Eugene, South Africa would be a long flight, but if the coffee’s on…
August 21st, 2008 at 10:07 am
Iggy - there must come a time when we see that even if our points are valid our methods are not in God’s will.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:09 am
Hi Ingrid,
Consider the invite to South Africa open to yourself as well. Did you recieve my email? Your post, When Love Took Them In, is really beautiful and I cannot imagine someone reading that without getting tears in their eyes. I pray that it will inspire many more to follow your example of adopting special need children.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:17 am
Ingrid….
The comments are not by me… they are by others…
I never stated you did drugs nor published that you did… I stated that the site that did publish that was mean… and you used a lawyer to have it taken down.
Are you going to stop hurting people? Will you remove all the posts you referred to 14 year old girls as “painted girls of Sodom”?
By Jove… I think you’ve finally got it! Yet… not once did I hate you… nor really harmed you…
Yep… Bigfoot is suing me right now… cause he did not like my report that Brian McLaren and Rick Warren saved him and I questioned his salvation…
Boy… go and read you own site… you say things and mean it!!!! Even if it is just made up by you… you still mean it… and hurt so many as you go your merry way.
It is truly sad…
Now go sue Larknews.com and the Wittenburg door for making things up…
Did you read how I slammed Richard Abanes? He laughed! Did you read how I slammed Rick Warren? Did you read how I slammed Doug Pagitt? Mark Driscoll?
You seem so worried about “rumors” yet spread them like butta on pancakes… good grief…
Ingrid you are a media personality… you say ridiculous and outlandish things to titillate itching ears… you say mean things and hurt people without repentance… and you call me mean for making a joke about all the stupidity I see coming from the ODM’s…?
Again, if you see hate, it is a mirror reflection… go and deal with the hate you “struggle” with against me… deal with our own issues…
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 10:19 am
Richard Abanes: “Since Ken Silva is so fond of posting private emails”
O, so very loving. Good thing the great apologist isn’t being judmental. How does he know I am “fond of posting emails”? Answer: He doesn’t.
The fact is I’m not fond of “brothers” who make unfounded accusations of libel, where I’m judged guilty when this false claim was never substantiated.
As far as I see Abanes is acting like a spoiled little child pouting because didn’t get his way. Well, I wasn’t about to let him privately try and edit the web site God gave me an Internet pulpit.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:24 am
Iggy, you are going to the pool…
August 21st, 2008 at 10:29 am
Ingrid.
BTW I never stated you did drugs… here is the quote.
If you read it I was glad the site was taken down. I was stating it was hypocritical in how you did it… and then seemed to get so self righteous over the Ken Silva saga…
Also did you not see that the link that was to that very site state: “Some psycho exposing the faces of decernmentalist” I called the guy a psycho for a reason… And I had no idea who the guy was…
Can you not read? You might want to get the story straight before casting accusations against me.
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 10:30 am
I did drugs. Lots of them.
No more - Jesus!!
August 21st, 2008 at 10:32 am
Amen Rick… that is part of both our testimony and the power of the Blood of Jesus…
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 10:33 am
Rick,
But maybe you didn’t inhale.
August 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Ingrid,
BTW the piece on adoption was great… I wish that Ken could have highlighted it without dragging in Richard A… It should have stood alone.
Peace,
iggy
August 21st, 2008 at 11:31 am
This is a statement to please resist, nay desist the hashing out of personal conversations and e-mail exchanges in the comment sections of this website. This is a blanket statement to all involved and not directed at anyone in particular.
As a junior member of the “leadership” of this site (meaning I am on the posting team) I find it inappropriate and an embarrassment to read the accounts and posts of conversations.
Return to discussing the thesis of the post.
Neil
August 21st, 2008 at 11:48 am
And for those who may have forgotten what the thesis is, here you go: Anything Ken does is wrong.
Carry on; glad I could help.
August 21st, 2008 at 11:55 am
I concur. Very nice post Ingrid, and shame on you Ken.
Ken took something very cool, very right, and used it as a tool for wrong, as an attack and as smugness.
“Hunters of heresy hunters” that we may be (although even this phrase shows Ken’s lack of understanding on both heresy itself and the purpose of this blog) we have pointed out the good that those we oppose have done and do, as well as the times that their posts are spot on.
Unlike Ken, we are willing to praise the good in those we disagree with as well as oppose them when we see them error.
Neil
August 21st, 2008 at 11:59 am
Neil,
Yeah, there you go. Good job.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Not “anything.” If/when you do something praise worthy we will… just as we have with Ingrid and others that have been given the ODM label.
The fact that we have praised Ingrid and others, and not you (not that I have seen) should tell you something.
Neil
August 21st, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Thanks Ken,
Neil
August 21st, 2008 at 12:07 pm
“Anything that Ken does is wrong”
True.
Anything that Jesus does through Ken is right.
True.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
And you guys are?
August 21st, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I disagree… it may seem like everything, but certainly not anything.
Neil
August 21st, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Everything that Rick Frued does is wrong.
True.
Everything Jesus does through Rick Frueh is right.
True.
August 21st, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Sorry Ken, you are wrong…
I agree with what Rick stated… if God does it through you; you are right…
In fact some of your older pieces are very good… it is your attack pieces and what you call… “research”… err “opinions”… that are often not in Grace or mercy… or show God’s loving Kindness.
Now we can carry on.
iggy