So Long Farewell, I’ll see (some of) you in the sky…
Posted by Joe on Aug 12th, 2008
2008
Aug 12
Recently I’ve been involved with Ken Silva in a matter that I wanted to address privately. Ken decided to go public with that situation, which is his prerogative and right. I want to respect that. Here is the situation as I understand it:
- I contacted Ken to discuss the issue of him presenting me as a Christian Agnostic. I have evidence that is provable where Ken’s claim’s have provable damages to me. I did mention lawyers in attempt to show Ken that I have a case of provable libel
- Ken rebuffed my attempts to talk to him.
- I called and emailed Chris Rosebrough of Extreme Theology to see if he would feel comfortable moderating a Three Way Call between Ken and I. As of the writing of this post I have not heard from Ken or Chris.
- Ingrid and Ken posted about how I was attempting to distract Ken from the work God has called him to be a part of.
- I called Ingrid and expressed my frustration with her and especially with Ken because I was attempting to handle this situation Biblically and being frustrated at every turn. Ingrid did not seem comfortable moderating a three way conversation between Ken and I.
- I asked Ken again for contact information to his board and to his local association. My thinking was that I might have to initiate some form of church discipline
- Ken ignored me
- Someone from Ken’s board contacted me. We talked and I presented the situation as I understand it.
- He offered to contact Ken and see if Ken would talk in a three way with us.
- Ken refused.
- All of the activity that has happened on the “Team Politics” post has transpired.
- I contacted Ken’s former DOM and discovered that Ken’s church is no longer considered part of that association.
Now, I will issue the same challenge to Ken again. What of this do you refute or say is inaccurate?
Really though, what matters is what I have learned from this? Here it is.
- I believe I have followed all mandates in the Bible in contacting Ken and attempting to handle this issue as best I can. I believe the Bible now calls me to treat him as an outsider. Interestingly enough there is no mandate in the Bible about not taking an outsider to court. (I’m not doing that but…)
- I have learned that Ken’s reputation in his town is not good.
- I have been sinned against and despite all of Ken’s proclamations about caring about Scripture and the perspicuity of it, he has refused to engage in this matter in a Biblical manner.
- Ken has been mean and nasty and does not represent the Christ of the Scriptures at all.
- In my opinion, Ken does not hold himself accountable to his board in any manner. Why else would he refuse to give me contact information?
- None of 1-5 matter all that much.
- I am leaving CRN.info. The bottom line is that I believe Ken and his friends to be the bottom feeders. I know that’s not all that charitable which is why I’m leaving. I don’t have time to engage a man who hides. I don’t have time engage drive by commenters. I enjoy commenting here and may continue to do so, but at the end of the day I do not believe Ken, Mike R, and John Chisam and the rest are worth my time. They are divisive, angry people who do not show the light they claim to have. If they’re writing is reflective of they believe to be Chistianity, we have fundamentally different views of Scripture
- I am too busy to worry about modern day Pharisees.
So, let the vulture attacks begin about what I said wrong here.
So long, farewell, I’ll see you (some of you) in the sky….
August 12th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Joe,
Though I haven’t had the kind of personal interactions that you have with these people, I can certainly understand your position. I recently had to walk away from my position at a church I was at for 14 years in one way or another because of similar things. Basically, I’ve found that when it comes to things like church leadership, transparency and honesty are often little more than buzzwords.
Life is too short to constantly deal with people who will drain all spiritual life from you. And from what I see, there are a lot drains in Christendom. I actually was just talking with my wife about this stuff last night, and we decided it comes down to this - it seems that for a lot churches, they take sort of a scorched-earth policy. If they can’t control something, they try to kill it. It the same thinking that led to the religious establishment killing Jesus.
So anyways, don’t let the bastards get you down. Keep in touch, bro…
August 12th, 2008 at 11:24 am
Joe - with all respect, there is a lot of whining going on here and self-defense. The more I read all of this I wonder if any of us would recognize the Christ of the Bible if He were to appear today.
While we moan and lament our lot and chafe that our names are being dragged through the mud, why, as Christians do we cry about it - from both sides.
We need to get real here in the North America. What we consider persecution is no more than a pillow fight in comparison to what others suffer - both physically and damage done to their names for Christ’s sake.
I just finished reading an article in which a woman in Asia was arrested for witnessing publicly. She was sent for prison, where for EIGHT months she would stand facing a wall from 5am to 10pm every single day. She didn’t complain, write blog defenses, get the law involved because the law was persecuting her. She preached to the wall until she was released to a work camp, where she preached to the other prisoners, and though targeted by the guards (who happen to carry electric rods), she continued her course.
All this junk about you, your little reputation, Richard and his, Ken and his are all just shameful. Grown men? Let’s get real here and get a thicker skin. Stop embarrassing yourselves and follow Christ.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Thanks for those words of encouragement Paul. They were sweet morsels to my soul. BTW, I’m ripping Matthew 18 out of my Bible. Because evidently, in order to go to a brother who has sinned against me, I am whining.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Paul,
Nobody cited persecution.
While I agree with you about the insensitivity and stupidity of American Christians who cry “persecution” when they are simply disagreed with, your response is itself unhelpful and rude.
I will give you this…at least you included Ken in the equation.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:34 am
Paul,
Certainly a greater evil, such as the persecution you mention, isn’t a justification of a lesser one. Ken wants all the privilege of writing whatever he wants about about whomever he wants, but none of the accountability. If anyone needs to show some courage in this instance, it’s Ken. His refusal to even speak with Joe speaks volumes.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Joe,
God Bless you, I’m sure this is the best course of action for you right now. It really is a drain to ‘converse’ with them sometimes, so I feel your pain. I hope that by leaving you’ll have more time for what God has called you to, and in helping people know Christ and Him crucified and helping Christians grow. I’ve enjoyed having conversations with you, you’ve been a true brother to us here. Thanks.
Go walk as Him, 1 John 2:6
Joe
August 12th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Then just do it and be done. If you feel you’ve done your part, then what’s the point of blowing a trumpet to signal your tight adherence to the scriptures?
No, you’re correct, but my hope was simply to shed some perspective here. We have it so good that when something as minute as what is happening here occurs, we think the sky is falling. We blow the trumpet and declare our firm adherence to scripture and then wonder *as loud as we can* why our adversary doesn’t adhere to it in the same way.
Because of our lack of exposure to anything remotely resembling persecution, we’ve developed such a soft underbelly that we feel the need to threaten lawsuits on a whim, defend with all gusto if our reputation risks damage and cry foul when someone says something we don’t like.
And this blog is different how?
August 12th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Paul C continues his team politics to the very, bitter end. He can’t even bring himself to publicly admit that Ken has refused to follow the scriptures, instead he condemns Joe, not on the basis of Biblical mandates, but on the basis that he is not in a prison camp.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Joe - you and I may have had certain disagreements, but I believe you love Christ. I will pray He will restore you to a place spiritually higher than you were before. Trials will plow fields into which God can speak. Erica was a blessing as well.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:54 am
BTW Joe - drop by to needle me about the college football season. If the Irish do well, I will not hestitate to speak with the highest self righteous pride. Mary help us!
August 12th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Grace and peace, dear brother.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:56 am
So it sounds like you’re saying persecution is a needed and desirable thing. I don’t think that’s a Scriptural position. Anyways, it’s not just that Ken called Joe a name. It’s that he wrote something that other people that have influence on Joe’s life have read and questioned Joe about. It has the potential to affect Joe’s livelihood. It’s akin to someone accusing an athlete of doping. Some charges need to be answered and rejected strongly.
Well, first off we allow people to comment. Secondly, we for the most part refrain from personal attacks. In the rare instances where a writer does cross the line, we are accountable to each other. There have been multiple instances where people have corrected us, and we have changed articles because of it. Also, we aren’t passing ourselves off as some “ministry” trying to sap donations from people.
August 12th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Joe.
My all the blessing of God’s great and wonderful grace rest in and through you.
iggy
August 12th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Bo misses the point entirely. I am not on Ken’s team at all and have witnessed how he’s manipulated the situation with Abanes to his advantage. I was not “condemning” Joe as you suggest, but trying to draw some perspective back into this whole mess. The blogosphere is NOT the battleground, sorry to disappoint - that’s my main point here.
I think it is commendable that Joe took the steps he did, but what I find ridiculous is the need to broadcast it continually. Rather than just letting it go and suffering the wrong, we have a tendency to go down with guns a-blazing.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Paul C -
This blog is different in a number of ways. I have witnessed numerous occassions where the writers here have either apologized or detracted certain things said if and when their critiques were challenged truthfully and they were wrong in their assessement. I have not once heard Ken apologize for anything. When he has been questioned for his critiques, he never responds or if he does it is with a snide one-liner. That is not the way the writers of this blog respond to others questioning them. Not in my experience, at least.
peace,
Chad
August 12th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Joe M-
Grace and peace to you, bro.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I have seen numerous *UPDATES* tacked onto the ends of articles where the writer acknowledged error or misinformation that was brought to their attention.
I have seen the writer engage and engage (and engage, etc.) others in coversation in the comment section of their article. The author is accountable to answer questions posed by ANYBODY who asks them.
That is huge.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:03 pm
re: The blogosphere is NOT the battleground, sorry to disappoint - that’s my main point here.
Then why not just say that?
Paul, you may have a point. But talk about crappy timing.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Perhaps so… upon further consideration that this is Joe’s farewell post, I won’t go any further.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Paul,
my respect for you just increased exponentially.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Paul,
You wrote: “And this blog is different how?”
As the newest writer here, I can assure you that there is a great deal of accountability going on amongst the writers. More than you can imagine–and, better, we do not always agree and we feel perfectly at ease sharing our disagreements with one another. At the end of the day, however, we believe that God’s grace is far grander than our disagreements.
jerry
August 12th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Whern a blog allows for any and all comments from all perspectives, doesn’t that distinguish it from those who allow no comments and those who sift the comments for viewpoint?
I cannot honestly say I have changed my theology by comments here, however I have benefited greatly in many ways. God has taught me patience, grace, love, humility, and many other Biblical fruits of the Spirit that were and still are lacking in my walk. An echo chamber feels good but usually is not challenging to my walk.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Joe M.,
Well, I am certain saddened by this development, but I also certainly understand. The blogosphere is a tough range for anyone to ride. I hope all goes well with you and yours. I also hope that the Cleveland Indians will keep winning, that Notre Dame will continue regretting the loss of Ty Willingham, and that the Pittsburgh Steelers will win another Super Bowl. (Oh, and that Lebron James will leave the Cavs and go to NY or Europe or Siberia.) And that Jeff Gordon will win another race in this decade.
In the meantime, I do hope you will stop by every now and again FOR A VISIT!
Down with Boston!
jerry
August 12th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Go Pats, BoSox, Celts!
That’s for you Joe
August 12th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Who is the Steeler fan here? I’m a Pittsburgh native. I bleed black and gold.
August 12th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Yeah…and there was a lot of bleeding for you last season when y’all came to play with my Pats. 34-13. Get some!
August 12th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
Paul,
What you see as whining I see as frustration. If things played out as Joe described, he has tried to resolve the issue but has been stone-walled.
From his pov, the frustration is enhanced because his name has been drug through the mud by a brother in Christ who apparently sees no need to resolve the dispute.
Neil
August 12th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
There is no place in the world like Pittsburgh, PA. My second fav place in the world besides where I currently live…
jerry
August 12th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
How this blog is different.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
I like the Stillers…
I grew up 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh. Now I am pretty much right in the middle between Pittsburgh and Philly, so half of the people who live here are Philly fans.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
And I’m a die-hard Eagles phan. So we have PA covered.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Spoken like a true fan still bruised from losing a SuperBowl to such underdogs
Jerry-
Amen.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
There is only one place for pure football - South Bend, Indiana.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Yeah, I’m still shocked. The Giants are hacks comparitavely, however, the good thing about us New Englanders is that we all are Giants fans too because we didn’t always have the Pats. So it was win win, just…a sour win win.
PS…34-13, that’s all I’m saying.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Hey Joe,
I am right there with you bro.
August 12th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
We can settle this Nov. 30th
August 12th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I’m a Steelers fan behind the Browns… yeah, I know hard to believe… while the Browns sucked I rooted for the Black N Gold. I was even pulling for them in their most recent Superbowl until it became evident that the zebras were too. With things being to lopsided I started feeling sorry for the Seahawks and began pulling for them. But as we all know, and the Seahawks found out, ya can’t fight City Hall.
Neil
August 12th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Joe M.,
Sorry to see ya go.
I understand the frustration.
May God bless your building of and for the Kingdom.
Stop back every once in a while.
Neil
August 12th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
So we can count on your continued support for decades to come!!
August 12th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Come get some!!
August 12th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
South Bend?!?!?!?!?! They better get the pope to a few more of their games is all I’m saying.
Leading the campaign to bring back TW,
jerry
August 12th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I’m puzzled here. You say this as if there was a time when the Browns haven’t sucked…
August 12th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Hopefully not…
August 12th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
No team in Cleveland sucks until the season actually starts. Just to show ya what it’s like to be a Cleveland sports fan… last year we had the Cy Young winner and were one game away from the World Series which they would have easily won… this year Cliff Lee should get the Cy Young - in Cleveland the stars would never align sop that we would have two pitchers of this calibre in the same season!
August 12th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
http://solascripturapprovedworkman.blogspot.com/2008/08/r-abanes-vs-ken-silva-and-misuse-of.html
Sorry but Matthew 18 is not intended to be used a subjective yardstick.
What constitutes sin against a brother. It seems anything that we disagree with is an offense against ME.
This is whining pure and simple, and much ado about nothing.
Good riddance.
August 12th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Man, I thought someone else had crappy timing…
Then again, this could just be Chris P’s audition in the Holy Spirit replacement candidating process…
Take note, Todd Friel and Pastorboy, he’s thrown down the gauntlet.
If he gets the spot I guess we’ll just have to say goodbye to the “good ole days” when the original Holy Spirit actually edified the Body…
August 12th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
As I read Chris P’s comment, all sorts of vile things began to flood my keyboard. I had to highlight all of it and press the delete button before I sinned.
I will say this. Chris gave this blog address: http://solascripturapprovedworkman.blogspot.com
I find it odd that the ODMs only hold to five solas. It is quite apparent to everyone outside of their circle that they have forgot the rest of them
sola grace
sola mercy
sola love
sola humility
sola gentleness
sola honor
If people like Chris P. treated people humanely, the name of Christ might actually be seen in the other five solas
August 12th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
I find it curious when people label themselves as approved workmen, or watchman, or defenders of the faith, or other self moikers of pride. jesus gave us a template to follow:
So likewise you, when you shall have done all these things which are commanded of you, say, “We are unprofitable servants, we have done that which was our duty to do”.
A striking difference.
August 12th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Nobody is whining. If this blog isn’t worth someone’s time, then that’s just how it is. I actually think it’s very responsible to keep track of what one does with their time and eliminate the things that are a waste.
Personally, the internet is not worth my time, and I’m still here for some reason . . .
August 12th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
For the record, I don’t think this blog “isn’t worth my time” in fact I think this blog is very profitable. Right now, it just isn’t a good thing for me to be working. The work here will continue quite well without me.
August 12th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Hey Joe……..come on over to my place and we can have a couple brews !
August 12th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Actually Merry you’re wrong.
the provisional Holy Spirit–Chris P–is whining…about his perception of whining.
If he gets the job whining is in!
so long as it is about other people’s so called whining.
If you can’t see how Jesus is glorified in that, then I don’t know if you really understand the clear teaching of the Revealed Word of God to the Remnant.
August 12th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Where you at Gary?
August 12th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Hey Gary, Ike, Josh (of Blood tipped ears), Mike and whoever else you pretend to be, why so many I.D’s. Perhaps you should read Mike Ratliff’s post about Stolen Identity.
August 12th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
OK, Josh just emailed me and pointed out that he only posts under his own name. Somehow his ISP matches the other people I was talking about. Maybe they all use the same SP.
August 12th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Joe,
Have a good trip.
Grace and Peace
PB
August 12th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Chris P.,
Have you no shame?
Is no comment too vile for you to put in writing?
Neil
August 13th, 2008 at 2:55 am
I’m new to this site but aware of the conflict being discussed and have had a few “interactions” with Ken Silva previously. Personally, I see great value in what is happening here.
Ken is actually a tenacious guy and if he ever learns to tone down the rhetoric (I’ve never known anyone to use the word apostate as much as he seems to) that quality can be useful. I am sure he can make some very useful insights but at the moment it is like finding a peanut in a pile of pebbles. No one has the time for that.
Confronting problems aggressively is destructive (Ken’s approach).
Failing to confront glaring problems, in a brother, is a very hateful thing to do (Paul C’s approach - maybe Chris P’s - never Rick’s). (Smiley face here)
Love is expressed by controlling the manner in which we confront one another (Joe’s approach).
Christians of the USA version are high on confrontation and very inexperienced with being confronted (unbalanced). We never really learn to love each other because it is too easy to leave each other - and later throw stones (we really know how to sling insults around). Ken, by admisstion, is very confrontational but he seems to lack the grace to get what he gives.
And, he does shut himself off badly. The blogosphere is a platform for everyone not a bullhorn for a few.
Joe, I really do applaud what you have done. Very few Christians are willing to face the turmoil of biblically confronting faults and your reporting of the facts is fair. There is no ill will evident in your remarks. The Bible has been honored. I wish you well.
Anyone here pulling for the Jaguars, the next SB winners??
August 13th, 2008 at 8:01 am
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Make no mistake Ken is evil. This is not a “threat”as some would paint it, it is a promise. I promise that sooner or later Ken will mess up and when he does I’ll be there to catch it. I have the means, and the motivation. I realize that probably makes even some of the writers here, so be it.
Joe, I am so disappointed that you have decided to disengage from this important front.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:16 am
“I promise that sooner or later Ken will mess up and when he does I’ll be there to catch it. I have the means, and the motivation.”
I cannot fathom of a lesser and more unchristian goal. To anticipate an “enemy’s” misfortune is not in the Spirit. You do not have to “be there”, God already is and He disciplines those He loves.
I have more than I can say grace over in my own walk, much less watch anyone else.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Rick
Certainly you are entitled to your belief. I think we probably disagre on the danger Ken poses.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Joe, I pray that you will grow in God’s grace during your time away from CRN.Info. I will miss your posts.
Who is going to remind us that Submissions is not a conversation thread or that we should use only one identity here now?
August 13th, 2008 at 8:34 am
“Who is going to remind us that Submissions is not a conversation thread”
Yea, Joe did a good job as keeper of the gate!
August 13th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Nathan wrote:
AMEN, BROTHER!
August 13th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Hey you want vile?
Check this out:
http://forchrist-contramundum.blogspot.com/2008/08/some-very-interesting-opinions.html
That is from YOUR papist brothers and sisters.
What did I say that was vile?
I take that as an offense, So be warned. I am coming over with two witnesses, my lawyer and my accountant.
You failed to address my point. What’s new?
Always the “tone”.
Let’s spew garbage but spew it “in love”.
What constitutes a real offense against a real brother?
Jesus did not specify, as maybe He expected the listeners/readers to understand.
A critique is not sinful in and of itself.
Since Joe himself could not define “christian agnostic” he has no case legally or before the church.
We could be bringing forth offenses until the Lord returns, or in the case of hyper-preterists, we will simply be HERE forever.
I am not worried since we will most likley be engaging Russia militarily in a few days or so, the focus will not be on the momentously trivial.
August 13th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
BTW the foundation of the 5 solas are found in all of scripture.
You may add as many as you please.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Grace, mercy, love, humility, gentleness and honor are scripturally founded.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
All of the right doctrine without love is nothing.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Chris P,
As one of the candidates for the Holy Spirit’s job are your comments about Russia a way of giving us a word of knowledge?
By the way, if you do get the spot in the Trinity, can we expect that being filled with you means misrepresenting what people are saying and doing (i.e. lying) is part of the fruit of the Spirit?
And, even better, that when we insist on said lies even after clear statements of intent/purpose from people we question we are walking in the godly principles of you?
I just want to know how to plan…in case you get the job.
Know that you’re looking pretty good, PB hasn’t even shown up in the race since he threw his hat in a few days ago.
btw, i know some really great worship pastors who can step in when you head up to the Throne room…
you’re gonna be pressed for time…what with all the indwelling, regenerating, revealing, empowering and justifying you’re going to be doing.
Good luck with that.
August 13th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Q. - “What did I say that was vile?” - Chris P.
A. - “This is whining pure and simple, and much ado about nothing. Good riddance.” - Chris P
Neil
August 13th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Neil,
be careful…
you might be rebelling against the “righteous judgements” of God…
August 13th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
At least Chris P. concluded with a reflective summary of his post.
August 13th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
Now, now, Chad.
That just might be the Holy Spirit you’re talking about…
August 13th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
What’s really great is that Chris P doesn’t ever really engage a person, just lobs his tantrums…oooops…I mean righteous wisdom into the midst of us.
You’ve got the whole “spirit blowing where it wills” thing down, Chris P.
I’m telling you…we might as well make it official.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
I am a little umcomfortable using the Spirit’s name in jest.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
I’m with you, Rick.
I think this jab has gone on long enough.
Shalom
August 13th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
I am uncomfortable with people using the name of Jesus to bully, divide and lord over others. I fear NC’s jesting is nothing compared to Chris P’s posturing.
Just my 2 cents.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Two wrongs…
Use the “Pope” to jest at Chris P., I’m sure he will love it! Sorry Chris, I can’t help it!
August 13th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
now, now, Rick. We papists do not take kindly to jesting about the holy father.
August 13th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Ok…
well then…
We’ll just make it official and accord Chris P the reverence due his apparent deity.
Someone let PB and Todd Friel know they didn’t get the job.
August 13th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Wow… Chris P… ever heard of the word… “sorry”?
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/sorry
iggy
August 13th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I am the eggman, I am the walrus, I am the papist.
Kuku kachu!
August 13th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Does that make nc the brown submarine?
ok…i’ll stop now. I crack myself up.
August 13th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Chris P
I recently had a talk with my son and daughter ages 4 and 3 about being and saying sorry.
I explained to them that sometimes it is not because one is wrong… but that they may have hurt the other person… even accidentally.
They understood what I explained.
Now, personally I see you are wrong… you see you are right… yet… if my 3 and 4 year old can understand this concept… why do you ODM’s not understand it.
One sorry… one “I forgive you”… or as the bible teaches us… Love covers a multitude of sins”… can have fantastic changes in others… and yourself as a person.
I forgive you… and I am sorry if I hurt you…
I hope your desire is to be a minister of reconciliation and not practice the covenant of death and judgment…
I plead that you come and live out the NT teachings of grace, mercy, forgiveness, and loving Kindness and reflects our Great and Wonderful God.
be blessed,
iggy
August 13th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
HAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
August 13th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
“BTW the foundation of the 5 solas are found in all of scripture. You may add as many as you please.”
Where?
And where does it say: “You are saved because you adhere to 5 solas”? As far as I can tell, the only thing required for salvation, strictly speaking, is faith in Jesus Christ. Chris P., perhaps you have written an essay about these so-called ’solas’, can you direct me to it because I am genuinely curious.
Besides, if there are 5, how can they be ’sola’?
Soli Deo Gloria!
August 13th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
Sola Scriptura - Scripture Alone
(except the ones about humility)
Solus Christus - Christ Alone
(the stingy redeemer)
Sola Gratia - Grace Alone
(demanding grace)
Sola Fide - Faith Alone
(plus baptism, communion, etc.)
Soli Deo Gloria - The Glory of God Alone
(Yea, right…)
I guess I’m not in the club. Men can even take the simplicity that is in Christ and make it into a breastplate of man’s righteousness.
Five Hans Solos and one Wookie!
August 13th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Jerry and Rick…
You guys should just submit to Chris P leading you into all truth.
His grace is “irresistable” remember?
August 13th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I remember when I left this blog, it was under circumstances that caused me to finally understand that all of us — even Joe Martino — have mean and nasty lurking somewhere within.
We’ve all got experience feeding at the bottom, don’t we?
I don’t know why I stopped by today, after all this time, but there you have it.
August 13th, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Hi Julie.
Sorry we are all such a disapointment to you… hope you are doing great and that you can extend some grace our way.
Be blessed,
iggy
August 13th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
nc,
I know you’re trying to be funny, but you’ve been leaving comments lately that aren’t adding anything to the conversation and are just mocking the people you think are mistreating everyone, and that doesn’t help anyone, certainly not Chris P. You know better, come on, just let off the gas some huh?
Peace
Joe
August 13th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Hi Julie! Nice to hear from you again…
August 14th, 2008 at 1:11 am
All human beings are mean, nasty, bottom feeders . . . complete scum.
It’s the Christians who acknowledge this and realize they can’t fix that on their own. Christians rely on the grace of God to redeem them. Because Christians acknowledge this, they are called to show mercy to everyone else, even those who aren’t humble enough to acknowledge this. Let’s remember this before making accusations about anyone else.
We can’t expect anyone to act perfectly . . . even ourselves. It’s the grace we show others that counts.
August 14th, 2008 at 6:36 am
Hey Julie,
Thanks for putting me up there. Hope you’re doing well. I stop by your blog occasionally.
August 14th, 2008 at 9:00 am
Julie writes one of my favorite blogs. She is da bomb.
August 17th, 2008 at 5:27 am
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