In an effort to gain some truthfulness in this whole ordeal between Ken Silva and Richard Abanes I contacted IPOWER to fully understand their stance on legal proceedings. During the course of my conversation about Apprising.org being removed from the web the very nice person I spoke with mentioned that IPOWER does not act on the advice of third parties in regards to the nature of any clients website. The woman I spoke with then directed me to their online User Agreement, specifically the indemnification section which states.

# Indemnification. User agrees to indemnify, defend and hold harmless IPOWER and its parent, subsidiary and affiliated companies, and each of their respective officers, directors, employees, shareholders, attorneys and agents (each an “indemnified party” and, collectively, “indemnified parties”) from and against any and all claims, damages, losses, liabilities, suits, actions, demands, proceedings (whether legal or administrative), and expenses (including, but not limited to, reasonable attorney’s fees) threatened, asserted, or filed by a third party against any of the indemnified parties arising out of or relating to User’s use of the Services, (ii) any violation by User of the AUP, (iii) any breach of any representation, warranty or covenant of User contained in this Agreement or (iv) any acts or omissions of User. The terms of this section shall survive any termination of this Agreement.

Essentially this means that IPOWER can not be held liable for any information contained on anyones website. In essence a letter served by a third party on IPOWER for a client would carry no weight and would “be disregarded as an idle threat”.

While IPOWER would not give me the specifics of the Apprising.org account the person I spoke with implicitly stated “We will not cancel or shut down any site based on the recommendation of a third party”

Perhaps we have a self created situation for publicity? I only pose the possibility; God knows the truth.

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231 Comments(+Add)

1   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm

I bet if you dig further, Ken took the site down himself and the ISP did not do anything… except maybe send a warning or pass on the concern.

Again, Ken seems to act out like this… at times he seems unstable… I remember when all his writings were “research” then someone spoke out and they became “opinions”… the end result was that they were lies…

I think Ken is pulling something…

iggy

2   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 4:09 pm

except maybe send a warning or pass on the concern.

Iggy in the course of my conversation; IPOWER did mention that it is their policy to pass along correspondence to their clients but that in no way does that imply them taking action.

3   John Hughes    
July 28th, 2008 at 4:14 pm

Chris: Essentially this means that IPOWER can not be held liable for any information contained on anyones website. In essence a letter served by a third party on IPOWER for a client would carry no weight and would “be disregarded as an idle threat”.

No, that is not exactly what that means. You cannot control a 3rd party’s law suit. It means the “User” has indemnified IPower, not 3rd parties. By signing the indemnity it means that they, the User, cannot sue IPower if someone sues them and they must defend IPower (i.e., provide legal fees) in case they are sued by a 3rd party. It does not, nor cannot stop 3rd party lawsuits. When you have a law suit you sue any and everybody you can. So the threat is real.

4   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

No, that is not exactly what that means. You cannot control a 3rd party’s law suit. It means the “User” has indemnified IPower, not 3rd parties. By signing the indemnity it means that they, the User, cannot sue IPower if someone sues them and they must defend IPower (i.e., provide legal fees) in case they are sued by a 3rd party. It does not, nor cannot stop 3rd party lawsuits. When you have a law suit you sue any and everybody you can. So the threat is real.

So this means Ken realized he could not prove he was not slandering others so in a crazed moment of rational thinking deleted the whole shebang…

5   Chris P.    
July 28th, 2008 at 4:19 pm

My aren’t we nosey?
Your arrogance is beyond the pale.
Well keep it up and you might find yourself right alongside “brother” Abanes.
Perhaps you will soon be needing a lawyer?
If Ken made this up, why on earth would Abanes even be putting up an argument about it? Answer: He wrote the email, and Ken did not take his site down.
You have now joined the world of the religious conspiracy-theory wackjobs, which is lead mainly by traditionalist roman catholics btw.
As far as anyone being unstable….. well iggy we won’t go into that.

6   Michael Newnham    http://phoenixpreacher.com
July 28th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

I just got off the phone with IPower and they denied that they would have taken any action against Silva without a legal mandate to do so.
Mr. Silva has some ’splaining to do….

7   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 4:45 pm

When you have a law suit you sue any and everybody you can. So the threat is real.

While this is technically true it does not negate the fact that an IPOWER representative stated “We will not cancel or shut down any site based on the recommendation of a third party”

I would encourage you to read the entire user agreement. It is pretty clear that IPOWER holds themselves free and clear of any legal proceedings that arise from individual websites.

8   John Hughes    
July 28th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

Chris: It is pretty clear that IPOWER holds themselves free and clear of any legal proceedings that arise from individual websites.

This is true in that their clients (e.g. Apraising Ministries), by having indemnified them (i.e., hold harmless) must foot any of the legal fees.

9   John Hughes    
July 28th, 2008 at 4:56 pm

Iggy,

I agree. KS was evidently just waiting for something like this. The counter attack in the ODM blogosphere appears to be very coordinated and pre-planned. However, given KS ‘reported financial difficulties any type of law suit requiring legal fees, no matter how frivolous, would be pretty daunting. Too, the event also seems calculated on RA’s part. Why choose that particular 3 year old article? and, as someone else pointed out, I think the fire storm is going to be a lot larger and more damaging than either arsonist anticipated. Sad/bad for all.

P.S. It’s all RW’s fault.

10   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 4:57 pm

Now hold on. Let’s not jump to conclusions and get all “I KNEW IT! SILVA IS TRIXYYY!” about this. Remember, Chris only brought this up as a “FYI”. Until everything is fully known (and it never may be) we shouldn’t assume the worst.

11   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

Counter post: Linky poo

So what now?

I really don’t think we should jump to conclusions like this, it just fuels Ken’s matrydom and ‘glorious return’, and in his mind, gives him more to claim persecution on.

12   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
July 28th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

Chris Rosebrough’s response was priceless. This whole thing is sad. IF Ken did fake it, that’s sad, and even if he didn’t that’s sad, too. Some of the things these people have posted is beyond ridiculous.

13   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

Joe C.

Nothing I guess. I only posed the possibility. Everything/Anything is possible. With RW running the world anything could happen.

14   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
July 28th, 2008 at 5:07 pm

You know, maybe Ipower was lying to Chris when they talked to him. I mean, we’ve never caught Ken in a mis-truth.

15   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:08 pm

My aren’t we nosey?

Uhm, Chris – it’s called “research” and “journalism”. Why take Ken at face value when so much of his writing is so often a tissue of lies and half-truths (kind of like Walter Martin being his “mentor”)?

Your arrogance is beyond the pale.

Perhaps you should inform every news outlet that confirms sources of stories that they’re being ‘arrogant’ as well…

Perhaps you will soon be needing a lawyer?

Is this a threat, Chris? Talk about missing the point by a mile… If you reference the previous article, most of us didn’t agree with RA going to the ISP w/o going to Silva first, and for threatening legal action in the matter…

16   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

I mean, we’ve never caught Ken in a mis-truth.

You gave me my biggest laugh of the day, Joe.

If it weren’t so sad, Ken’s entire self-flagellation would be one of the funniest things I’d read in years…

17   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
July 28th, 2008 at 5:11 pm

Of course, This will show ‘em!!!!

18   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:14 pm

Man..has anyone noticed something completely nutty?

Almost the entire front page of CRN is articles going after Richard Abanes/The AM take-down/how Abanes actions prove PD is wrong.

It’s kind of sad, really. Think of how little the majority of CRN traffic cares, and how little of the Gospel is being preached?

Anyways I think Abanes really did a great job with this post. It stands in contrast to what Ken Silva did, and it was the right way to go about it. And now how can any of the ODMs have a leg to stand on. If they condemn Abanes actions, and then approve of Chris R doing the, in his words, exact same thing, isn’t that increddibly hypocritical? I’m just asking.

Oh and Ken, if you’re reading this: This post, and forum do NOT constitute libel, ie a Dictionary, and ‘wondering’ about something/doing research doesn’t imply anything or constitute slander/libel. FYI. Thought I woud help, since you (as the approver of content on CRN) asked.

Joe

19   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:23 pm

Oh here’s the wordle word cloud for CRN; I think it’s telling…

It’s really just for fun though.

20   Chris P.    
July 28th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

1. You are not a “news source”.
It’s not your job.

2. “It’s kind of sad, really. Think of how little the majority of CRN traffic cares, and how little of the Gospel is being preached?”

Pious blether, and a diversion from the point here. Think how little you care about CRN traffic. Hypocrite.
More Gospel goes out from the odms in one day than in a month here. Unless of course you believe the Gospel to be preached through the “lens” (I hate that term) of the talmud, science, culture, your own “beautiful minds”, of US-good; Ken and Ingrid -bad.
I reiterate this blog is devoid of the Holy Spirit.

My remark about you needing a lawyer is based on the fact that this post accuses Ken of fraud, which is not true and therefore leaves you open to a libel suit.

21   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

Chris P,

As far as anyone being unstable….. well iggy we won’t go into that.

I agree since I am trying to be nice to others these days… and I am not the one that does drive by comments that have nothing to do with the article most the time… let alone need to be monitored…

iggy = )

22   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:29 pm

This article at CRN — Lawsuit Response: Richard Abanes to Chris Rosebrough — really confuses me. It reads: “The sad saga of Richard Abanes and his legal threat which shut down the website of Ken Silva and Apprising Ministries has taken yet another turn with this Open Letter to CRN contributor Chris Rosebrough.”

Uhm, can someone tell me why this is still termed a “sad saga” in reference to that article of mine, which I thought would make everyone happy and be a source of rejoicing!!! Am I missing something?

R. Abanes

23   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Where are the cleaver internet guys who can provide a picture of a car driving by with the words “Comment” on its side?

24   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:31 pm

However, when we become aware of allegations of improper activity by one of our customers using a hosted site, which would be a violation of our Terms of Service (TOS) governing the web sites, we take such situations seriously, investigate promptly, and take appropriate action.

Pretty much sums up what the ISP thought of Ken Silva’s site…

And that Ken did have a choice and did not comply and remove that ONE SINGLE POST…

Proves that Ken was not accountable and needed to have action taken to me…

iggy

25   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

Richard – your letter was nothing more than a form letter that can be purchased at Office Depot. It fools no one. :roll:

26   merry    
July 28th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

Does RW=Rick Warren?

Everything is all his fault? Is that what this boils down to–the Purpose Driven Life?

Funny how this whole mess seems to serve absolutely no purpose.

Continue to pray for Ken. No one knows what is really going on, so just pray about all of this.

Who I’m really feeling for is those polite spokespeople at IPower who are probably drowning in a flood of phone calls! :)

27   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

Joe,

Interestingly someone did Apprising Ministries also… I find it telling Christ is missing from their cloud…

iggy

28   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:35 pm

The response on C?N is really comical.

All that proves is that Ken got a letter from IPOWER. Which we already knew. It does not negate the possibility that Ken removed his site voluntarily.

What I can’t figure out is why Ken didn’t respond to IPOWER with his side of the story? It doesn’t seem in the best interest of a company to alienate their client base by siding with a third party without arbitration. Sounds really fishy to me.

Additionally remember the whole “IPOWER deleted Slice incident” that Ken posted about on Apprising. Hmmm…makes me wonder why he kept using them.

Finally since I was in a investigative reporter mode I checked the info about Apprising at godaddy. The Apprising.org name was purchased until August of this year. Just coincidence that the site goes down a few weeks before a renewal is necessary? Hmmm…again.

29   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

“those polite spokespeople at IPower”

They are part of this intricate conspiracy. :twisted:

30   merry    
July 28th, 2008 at 5:37 pm

^All right, all right, I feel sorry for no one in this situation! :)

31   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

Who I’m really feeling for is those polite spokespeople at IPower who are probably drowning in a flood of phone calls! :)

Doubt it I was on hold for 40 minutes in order to talk to people who could really answer the questions I was asking.

32   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:38 pm

Finally since I was in a investigative reporter mode I checked the info about Apprising at godaddy. The Apprising.org name was purchased until August of this year. Just coincidence that the site goes down a few weeks before a renewal is necessary? Hmmm…again.

Like I have stated from the begining.. Ken is a big boy and he made his choice… instead of brash and impulsive it now seems more calculated…

And deceptive.

iggy

33   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Hmm Apprising Ministries name is soon up for sale again?

iggy

34   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Richard,

It doesn’t matter what you do. You spit in their faces, or so they see it that way, and you confirmed what they already wanted to believe about you. I’m not sure what you can do to reconcile now? I mean, in reality, having that site taken down (thought it was as much the stubborness of Ken that did it as it was you) really set off a firestorm. ie “Don’t touch the Lord’s Annointed” kind of stuff.

I really appreciate what you did with Chris R though, if no one else does. I thought it was the right way to handle it.

35   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

Iggy,

I did Apprising Ministries the other day before it was taken down, just to see, before it was taken down. :)

36   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

A funny thing just happened to me. For five minutes I was granted an insight into everyone’s heart. Fortunately I copied down everything I saw.

It ain’t pretty folks, but I cannot share it without violating my Blogger agreement, whatever that is! :cool:

37   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:43 pm

Joe,

There is no reconciliation in the ODM crowd… you cannot judge, condemn and reconcile with others…

That is why Jesus had to die on a Cross… to bring reconciliation instead of condemnation and judgement.

These guys use Jesus to condemn others… Jesus came to save us… that is an abuse and mistreatment of our Lord and Savior…

iggy

38   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

Hmm Apprising Ministries name is soon up for sale again?

As of August 23rd, 2008 you can have it Iggy.

39   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

Chris,

As of August 23rd, 2008 you can have it Iggy.

Wouldn’t that be a hoot!

LOL!

iggy

40   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:48 pm

I was just on Todd Wilken’s new Issues, Etc. radio show. The show will probably be up in a few days of you’re at all interested in it http://www.issuesetc.org/.

And with that, I am moving on. My next blog posts will be against New Agers Eckhart Tolle and Oprah Winfrey.

R. Abanes

41   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

He’s Baaa-aaack – http://209.40.197.33/

RAbanes :-)

42   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:51 pm

Funny thing is that I was planning the day of prayer for Ken and Ingrid… on the 28th…

Been praying about that day already… so now you all can blame me and God…

I threaten to pray and Slice goes pink and Ken disappears…

iggy

43   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

Man all that whining just to go to another URL with all the same articles. Which by the way I love the new graphics. Really I do.

Doesn’t seem calculated to me at all.

44   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 5:54 pm

I had a little chuckle at the http

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/09/a_pastors_asses.html.

Maybe the ISP thought is was a Christian porn site…?

iggy

45   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:56 pm

Oh cool. I like the new layout. I mean…the perrywinkle blue was killing me. The firey red is a much better fit, I think.

How’d you find out about that?

46   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasroared.com
July 28th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

Richard,

With respect, if an apology needs to be borderline advertised, and at the end of it it says something like “there, done.”, it is difficult for anyone, especially the offended party, to take it too seriously. I’m not saying you didn’t mean it. What I am saying is that it didn’t appear like you did and you should not, in ANY case, be frustrated for lack of human reaction. That is not the reason for an apology of any kind.

If you really did offend a brother, then that is sin. If you really did sin, then it wasn’t merely against Chris R, but it was against God and God alone (Psalm 51). The more concerned that you are about offering apology and repentance to HIM, the more believable your apology to a mere man is going to be.

You shouldn’t have to say “hey, everyone! I took the high road! Why isn’t anyone recognizing that and rejoicing?!”

That one comment (#21) calls into question the validity of the open letter even more so than the letter itself. Hence a general, and at this point advisable, reluctance to give it too much attention or credence.

I am sickened by this whole situation. Feel free to email me Richard.

47   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:00 pm

JOE C.: How’d you find out about that?

RA: Illuminati High Command called me on the Vatican’s red line.

RAbanes

48   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

SJ,

He wasn’t offering his apology up as a ‘look what I did’. CRN seemingly criticized him for apologizing, and decided to continue the ’saga’, though it is plainly being dealt with, and so Richard is confused by that.

I think you’re misreading the situation, in my opinion.

R,

Joe

49   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

RA: Illuminati High Command called me on the Vatican’s red line.

:dies: LOL

50   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:04 pm

SJ: “there, done.” bothered you, after all that went before, because I trued to keep it light, and cheerful, because I was blessed in joy by the outcome, you erase all that was before that and complain about “there, done.”? Interesting. Okay, I’ll take your fine suggestion. That was obviously a distraction — it’s gone

RA

51   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasroared.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

Joe,

I was only referring to the letter/article by Richard himself, and the nature of the comment. I agree this whole thing is become pretty ugly. But I had issue before the comment 21. Thanks for checking Joe, but I would still appreciate Richard thinking about the point.

52   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

S.J.

I want to say that I personally appreciate the way you engage in dialog. Thank you for your willingness to hold us to account and being willing to hear the other side.

53   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Joe C,

Yeah, you seemed to haven o trouble understanding it at all. I can’t help but wonder what it is like to always be so suspicion of people that everything is seen as some kind of carnal/sinful expression or some nefarious conspiratorial plot. Hmmm. Kinda sad, actually.

RA

54   Paula    http://www.purposedrivel.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

>Perhaps we have a self created situation for publicity? I only pose the possibility; God knows the truth.

>I think Ken is pulling something

Hm… methinks you could get this (CRNmisinfo) shut down with libelous statements like these.

55   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasroared.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:09 pm

Richard,

Easy. I wasn’t erasing anything. Just pointing out a couple things that did not help it hold weight.

56   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasroared.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:11 pm

Chris,

Thanks.

57   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasroared.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:12 pm

Don’t get used to it. I’m approaching 490 pretty fast.

58   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:13 pm

Hm… methinks you could get this (CRNmisinfo) shut down with libelous statements like these.

Thanks for the concern. I don’t speak for all the writers here but if the phrases “I think” and “Perhaps we” sound like rock solid, firm convictions to you then I’ll take my chances with the legal department.

59   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:14 pm

No, the comments don’t count. It doesn’t work that way. Plus, like I already said “thinking”, “pondering”, “wondering”, can’t be considered libel.

Are we just trying to create controversy now, Paula?

How did your comment help anything, or have anything to do with this discussion?

60   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

Oh and Paula…How could you say that to a fellow Airedale owner?

61   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

SJ, you’re cool in my book (which doesn’t count for anything) :)
I get what you’re saying now. Nothing on the internet is going to be perfect. Sometimes you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t, you know?

62   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 6:23 pm

For Joe C.

63   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:27 pm

It’s telling, but let’s remember it’s not a “tell-all’. Ken writes plenty about Jesus, just…he gets consumed with ‘other’ things often, and you’d have to dig to find Jesus/Grace sometimes. Let’s not let this turn in to “my wordle has more Jesus in it than your wordle” contest, eh? LOL.

Joe

64   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:30 pm

PS, Wordle is sweet. To be fair, here’s my blog . MY JESUS IS HUUUUUGE!!!

:) LOL!

I was also doing whole books of the Bible the other day….WAY Cool. When you do the whole Bible, the most common/largest words are “GOD” and “WILL”. Jesus is actually pretty small. Weird. :(

65   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:34 pm

Jesus is actually pretty small. Weird.

Maybe it has to do with the servant attitude of Jesus.

66   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

Chris! That’s GREAT!

It probably has more to do with sheer word count, ie “Jesus” doesn’t show up until 3/4ths of the way through, but who knows…? Maybe it’s intentional? 8O

67   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 6:44 pm

It probably has more to do with sheer word count, ie “Jesus” doesn’t show up until 3/4ths

Yeah I’m sure but what a cool illustration of how we are to emulate Jesus.

68   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 7:00 pm

This was all in fun and not to insinuate Ken does not talk about Jesus… my own blog has lots of posts on Jesus, Grace, and books of the bible, yet Jesus appeared smaller than I expected… I thought he would be about 90 ft tall.

iggy

69   amy    
July 28th, 2008 at 7:25 pm

Richard,
I find it hard to believe that you,, according to your recent article about Chris R, are “a firm believer in not expressing anything that cannot immediately be substantiated” in light of this recent comment:

WOW. And I can’t even print what has been coming through into my email box — the threats, obscenity/profanity, and condemnations (all from Ken Silva’s “Christian” fan base).

Since you say you can’t copy the e-mails, how were you planning to hold to your “firmly held belief in not expressing anything that can’t be immediately substantiated?”

70   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 28th, 2008 at 7:27 pm

Wow Amy…just wow!

71   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 7:29 pm

Amy,

I get the same type of email… and delete them… this is what they do… the ODM’s. You seem to not believe much anyway so what’s the use in trying to prove anything to you.

iggy

72   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 7:37 pm

Richard – just ignore her.

Per Titus 3:10, it’s the best policy that too many of us forget…

73   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 28th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

Ignore who? Hmm? What? I don’t see anything? :-)

RA

74   Bo Diaz    
July 28th, 2008 at 7:53 pm

Hm… methinks you could get this (CRNmisinfo) shut down with libelous statements like these.

Ah, so dear sweet Paula concurs with Mr. Abanes and his actions, or is this yet another example of ODM hypocrisy?

75   John Hughes    
July 28th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

Uhmmm, Hey “It’s all RWs fault” = humor. Can’t believe anyone took that seriously. Everyone is on Defcon 4 in the blogosphere. Sheesh.

76   Sandman    
July 28th, 2008 at 8:42 pm

John,

A serious Christian has no sense of humor. Thought you would’ve recognized that by now.

(I’m joking, seriously.)

77   Sandman    
July 28th, 2008 at 8:52 pm

Talk about straining at gnats…

I can believe Ingrid when she says she is frequently porn bombed in the mail (which is a crime, sending that to one who has neither requested it nor wishes to view it). I don’t have to see it.

I can believe all the various Crosstalk hosts when they say they can’t play, read or repeat something that has been said because of the inappropriateness of the subject, be it their standards or the FCC’s. I don’t have to hear it from them; I can look it up myself.

If Richard doesn’t want to rebroadcast the malicious emails he’s been getting (and ISPs have a policy against those activities), I can accept that as well.

78   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

We must be careful in personal revelations of what we Americans call “Persecution”. It can easily become “publicity”.

I believe the sweetest and most glorifying persecutions are those which are either revealed after a person’s death, or only revealed in heaven before Christ’s throne.

Secrecy in many issues avoids duplicity.

79   Sandman    
July 28th, 2008 at 9:26 pm

Rick, that’s just it. Bless you for reminding me because I meant to bring this up yesterday.

In all of this threat, counterthreat, suit, countersuit hysteria, was it forgotten that God is still in control of everything and there isn’t one wrong commited that will not be redressed?

I think it is in our interest to punish the first insult; because an insult unpunished is the parent of many others.
— Thomas Jefferson to John Jay, 1785

One of my dearest friends often reminds me that in redressing wrongs, I can do it my way, which will give me a temporary satisfaction, or I can do it God’s way and let Him take care of it, and it will be perfect.

I’ve gotten better at letting God handle the revenge business, though it is still a challenge not to let personal affronts go unpunished.

80   amy    
July 28th, 2008 at 9:38 pm

That’s right Richard, simply agree to ignore me, because you can’t defend the fact that the statement that you are “a firm believer in not expressing anything that cannot immediately be substantiated” is a bit difficult to believe in the light of:

WOW. And I can’t even print what has been coming through into my email box — the threats, obscenity/profanity, and condemnations (all from Ken Silva’s “Christian” fan base).

Also, don’t bother to do something simple like tell how many of these actually contained obscenity/profanity. Or to explain just what the “condemnations” were. As it is your statement, without specifics, sounds REALLY BAD and serves to further deflate Ken Silva and inflate Richard Abanes.

81   Sandman    
July 28th, 2008 at 9:46 pm

sos

82   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 28th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

Perhaps he will just ignore you because addressing you never satisfies your picayune fault-finding and only goes downhill from there – it has nothing to do with a lack of defense and everything to do with starving the beast…

NOTE: Having been on the receiving end of nasty anti-Christian email from Ken’s backers in the past, RA’s aside comment about the crap landing in his email box is unsurprising and much more believable than Ken’s story and the alleged email he posted on CRN…

83   merry    
July 28th, 2008 at 10:20 pm

“Uhmmm, Hey “It’s all RWs fault” = humor. Can’t believe anyone took that seriously. Everyone is on Defcon 4 in the blogosphere. Sheesh.”

“John,

A serious Christian has no sense of humor. Thought you would’ve recognized that by now.

(I’m joking, seriously.)”

Christians always did make me feel rather bad about myself . . . sheesh to you, to! :)

84   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 12:34 am

Amy,

That’s right Richard, simply agree to ignore me, because you can’t defend the fact that the statement that you are “a firm believer in not expressing anything that cannot immediately be substantiated” is a bit difficult to believe in the light of:

Nope he is ignoring you because you are rude, and obnoxious and has not need to prove himself to you. Again, I receive this sort of stuff all the time…. want some of mine?

Here is one I received recently….

From some guy named Jeff…

What arrogance and what hatred of the Church of Jesus Christ you display so proudly as pagans of the most deceitful sort–as those who would disguise themselves as actually being of the faith. You boast and laugh at your own apostacy when you ought to be repenting of it. In this, and if you ever were truly saved, you reveal that you are among those to whom the book of Hebrews describes as being “impossible” to ever return back to Christ after rejecting Him and attacking his church. However, my guess is that you–like so many emergents–grew up in the church and yet were never saved in the first place…as evidenced by what has become manifest here on your silly little cess pool of a site. You learned just enough about the faith, the scriptures, church history, doctrines, and even the language of Christendom to make yourselves better-disguised wolves in your attacks upon everything and everyone you have never liked about Christianity. You believe that because you now have the internet and a collective group of other apostate renegades, who find company in misery, that somehow you now have the power you always wanted. This ‘need for power” or “need for a voice” may date back to your teen years perhaps, at the church your parents made you attend and listen to things in church you simply rejected about a God you never accepted? Well, that very real God of creation sees right through your paper bag, knows who you are, and knows precisely when you will stand before Him in judgement in the future. I have this feeling there won’t be any blog-laughs, crude jokes, nor cutting criticism of those who care deeply about reaching the lost with the Truth (like Dr. MacArthur does) on that day. Is it because you yourself have yet to be reached by Truth that you find those who declare it your enemies? It appears so. Nonetheless, I will pray for you.

You notice he is a John MacArthur follower… then tend to be… notice I am not saved according to him… well I am according to God’s word…

Amy, please, if I get this nasty stuff (and it gets even worse) Richard most likely does also. These are not loving people…

Here is what one man posted about me after he saw I had a Myspace.com site for my online Christian radio station.

Second, you will also find that he is at least 41 years old. Further research will yield this alarming news. He is a current member of myspace.com, the infamous teen website constantly trolled by older men for reasons not in the interest of the young people on that site. I currently have no more information than that on his activities on myspace.com. I will draw no conclusions other than it seems odd, at best.

http://ben2590.blogspot.com/2006_07_01_archive.html
Notice this is a list about me… he had more… but this was the highlight of them all… remember this is over this site http://www.myspace.com/iggyrocksradio

(BTW the station is in the top 62 this week in its genre… )

I can find more… though not all emails as I delete them when I get them….

Now I am not a published author… so I can just guess how much and how evil the emails Richard gets.

So, please Amy, stop calling Richard a liar… it is not showing much kindness but making you look like a jerk.

iggy

85   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 12:35 am

I am lost in the spam filter again…

iggy

86   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:01 am

The lines of loyalty have become way too stark and entrenched, and many times the loyalty is to man and not to Christ. Our charity flows much more freely to those with whom we have doctrinal relationship and their comments, even if obviously biased or fleshly, and are read with charitable interpretations while the slightest infraction from others must be dealt with strongly.

The interactions between doctrinal opponents are precisely what Jesus teaches to avoid since He reminded us not to behave as does the lost world that does not know better. And a pattern of this kind of interaction not only subtly creates an acceptance of unchristian behavior, it slowly but surely grows into bitterness. And the most subtly compromise of all is addressing unchristian behavior with unchristian behavior.

In the end, the righteousness of any issue gets lost in the squabble and the latent and overt partiality shown to that issue by human loyalties. We must BEG God for objectivity since it never comes naturally, and sometimes objectivity can only come through painful repentance and thereby making us all reticent to ask for it.

Loving our Master can be very costly, and in times like these carries with it many undesirable sacrifices. The tongue rushes to give voice to any and all graceless thoughts and intents of our hearts, and many times those self righteous machinations are camouflaged by truth. One can speak truth in the flesh, one can correct a brother in the flesh, one can agree with a friend in the flesh, and anything done in the flesh dishonors Christ regardless of the so called truth it professes.

There still is a fleeting opportunity among the sounding brass and tinkling cymbol of this recent issue. We may not see Ken and Richard reconcile and I have very little faith or hope for that presently, but the opportunity for me is personal. Will I allow the Holy Spirit to deconstruct me of my own thoughts and intents, not about the nuts and bolts of the issue itself, but concerning my own heart? Is my love for my brothers measured out according to my opinion about an issue, or is Jesus attempting to show me a better way?

Can our hearts use the rightness of some issue as a Trojan Horse within which it can hide an unchristian spirit that is loyal to myself and others and not to Him? Has this issue brought up before us our unmistakeable lack of wisdom when indeed the conversation and arguing has long since become unproductive and personal, and yet we continue? And can we come before our Lord in prayer with words of inflated sanctimony while all along the distant and muffled voice of the Spirit beckons us to the sanctifying revelation of the cross which is the only place where we can die to live.

And in that revelation we see something that so often gets captured in doctrine but minimized in actual practice. The holiest man that ever lived, in fact absolutely sinless in thought, word, and deed, died for his enemies who were wrong on every issue. We are not called to die for our enemies usually, but we are called to love them as we seem to love ourselves. Somehow we have allowed that journey to be detoured into a caricature of Christianity and not the uncompromising exhibition of Jesus Christ that confounds the wise and gives light where darkness rules. His true strength is only perfected in our weakness, and His power is seen through love.

87   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:10 am

As of current count I’ve received zero emails with porn or profanity in them.

I did receive one offer from a nice gentleman in South Africa to help with a problem he was having with getting a substantial amount of money out of his bank. All he needed was my acct# and he would wire it all to me and I could keep $100,000 of it for my trouble.

I’m so glad that I could help this guy out. I’m tithing the $100,000 to my church.

88   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:58 am

Rick,

Amen…

iggy

89   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 6:01 am

Chris,

that was really nice of Eugene…

; )

I am still waiting for that fellow from England who said that some former Ambassador was really impressed with me when he met me… he left me $100.000 also…

But for some reason my wife went on a spending spree and there is no money in my account… she denies it… but I can’t figure out where it all went…

iggy

90   Eugene Roberts    http://eugeneroberts.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 6:13 am

I did receive one offer from a nice gentleman in South Africa to help with a problem he was having with getting a substantial amount of money out of his bank. All he needed was my acct# and he would wire it all to me and I could keep $100,000 of it for my trouble.

I’m so glad that I could help this guy out. I’m tithing the $100,000 to my church.

We get many of those over here, usually from Nigeria or some African country with the email stating that he/she were involved with the government that previously was involved in torturing people but he/she recently came to Christ and want to “help” ministries in other countries by getting the money out of the country… … … and so it goes.

91   Eugene Roberts    http://eugeneroberts.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 6:17 am

Chris,

that was really nice of Eugene…

“You slander me? You slander ME?” in a godfather voice.

92   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 6:29 am

“You slander me? You slander ME?” in a godfather voice.

So sue me… prove it was not you… show me all the emails have done for the last 3 years… come on… guilty until I say your not!

iggy

For those who claim to be discerning… and may not really be, I am just ribbing my friend from South America… I am sure it was not him at all, but you never know… ; )

93   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
July 29th, 2008 at 6:43 am

I honestly worry about Amy. I really do

94   Eugene Roberts    http://eugeneroberts.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 6:55 am

For those who claim to be discerning… and may not really be, I am just ribbing my friend from South America…

South America? The move from South Africa is costing me an arm and a leg. Think I will keep that $100, 000.

95   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 7:05 am

Oops… geographically challenged today I guess… Eugene is scamming people from South Africa… sorry I hope that helps!

iggy

; )

Hey, I noticed an ISP that was routed through Mauritius… I have a pastor friend there…

96   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 7:06 am

Joe,

I am not Amy… for the record…

iggy

97   Sad    
July 29th, 2008 at 7:34 am

It is starting to appear that many people’s blogs are more important than Christ.
The Holy Spirit working through us in unity with scripture is how people are brought to Christ and the changing power of His love and grace…not tit for tat like some ugly, virtual ping-pong game in cyber space. Some write here with a smirk on there face and ugly innuendo, then go back to there blogs and act like they are being persecuted for Christ.

98   barbara    
July 29th, 2008 at 7:51 am

IPOWER and Ken Silva: Was the Whole Thing Simply Made Up by Silva?
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=5665
IPOWER and Richard Abanes have some explaining to do…

” —– Original Message —–
From: legal@ipower-inc.com
To: apprising@hughes.net
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 6:04 PM
Subject: apprisin | Terms of Services Violation – Slanderous Material [P05246673000000000]

Hello,

We have been advised by a visitor to your web site (at: HTTP://www.apprising.org) that such web site contains content that is alleged to be untrue, offensive, slanderous, harassing or controversial in nature.

Accordingly, please remove such content within 48 hours of this notice. Failure to delete such content within such period will result in termination of your website. The notice we received is below.

As you may know, we are a web hosting company. We are not responsible for the content or links posted by our customers who create and place content on websites that we host. We further do not “monitor” the websites that we host or prescreen the content placed by customers on their sites. However, when we become aware of allegations of improper activity by one of our customers using a hosted site, which would be a violation of our Terms of Service (TOS) governing the web sites, we take such situations seriously, investigate promptly, and take appropriate action.

Should you have further questions, please contact us.

Sincerely,
Jennifer N.
Customer Support Team”

99   RayJr    
July 29th, 2008 at 8:36 am

Funny, I looked back in the archives of the *new* apprising.org (Sept. 2005) and the offending article is not there. Did anyone else find it?

100   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 8:42 am

Thanks Barbara,

We’ve seen the letter.

101   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
July 29th, 2008 at 9:00 am

Barbara,
From a “prove it” point of view, that doesn’t prove anything. I could put up a post about the letter that George W. Bush sent me. It wouldn’t prove anything. I’m curious why Ipower didn’t send a follow up letter stating they had shut the old site down and why? I would think they’d be worried about litigation.
Just a thought.

102   Brett S    
July 29th, 2008 at 9:20 am

I’d like to offer a probably unpopular but somewhat obvious solution to this conflict. I know neither of these men personally, but I was only partially surprised to learn from their writings/blogs that both are baptized former Catholics.

I think it was Aquinas who first coined the phrase “GRACE builds upon nature”. Here’s a thought for consideration: Maybe both of these guys could look up their local Catholic priest and meet him in the confessional. Then maybe they could meet at a pub somewhere halfway in between. Perhaps they could discuss their differences over an ice cold beer like men, instead of threatening to have lawyers involved, and talking behind each others back like school girls. Hopefully the two can be reconciled and get along with the sometimes messy business of following Christ.

“The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our enemies; probably because they are generally the same people.” – GK Chesterton

103   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 9:48 am

Here’s a thought for consideration: Maybe both of these guys could look up their local Catholic priest and meet him in the confessional. Then maybe they could meet at a pub somewhere halfway in between. Perhaps they could discuss their differences over an ice cold beer like men, instead of threatening to have lawyers involved, and talking behind each others back like school girls. Hopefully the two can be reconciled and get along with the sometimes messy business of following Christ.

Perhaps they could invite the Easter Bunny as well? ;-)

As much as I like your heart Brett, I just can’t imagine Ken giving the time of day to a Catholic priest. They’re apostate, according to him, don’t you know.

104   Brett S    
July 29th, 2008 at 9:53 am

Phil,

If Saul could become Paul, anything is possible.

105   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 9:55 am

The Easter Bunny Phil? Is he making a comeback too? :roll:

106   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 9:58 am

If Saul could become Paul, anything is possible.

I know, I have to remind myself of that, too. It’s hard not to become cynical when you’ve seen this stuff all your life, though.

People do not give up their kingdoms easily.

107   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:00 am

NOTE: Having been on the receiving end of nasty anti-Christian email from Ken’s backers in the past, RA’s aside comment about the crap landing in his email box is unsurprising and much more believable than Ken’s story and the alleged email he posted on CRN…

So basically, you’re saying that RA’s comment is more believable than something that Ken has demonstrated to be true. (Unless you honestly believe he wrote that e-mail?)

How can something be “more believable” than something that is true? Is there “true” and “more true?”

“RA’s aside comment” – interesting how biased you are, using the word “aside comment” and castigating me for trying to get RA to back up what he has said, and the impression that he has given. Such a comment using the words “emergent” replacing Ken Silva would have undoubtedly been taken apart piece by piece by you or one of yours.

Is there such thing as an “aside comment” for one who is “a firm believer in not expressing anything that cannot immediately be substantiated?”

108   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 10:05 am

Who can say with reasonable medical certainty what is the definition of “obessession”. :evil:

109   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 10:07 am

Obsession. Sorry.

How can you get spellcheck in the comment section?

110   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:09 am

Once again, terms like slander, libel, defamation, etc. are tossed around, and yet, no one can prove or show where the libel was in this article (which is linked at my site)!

Come on! There is more slander and libel in this OP and the ensuing comments than in the OP in question!

Come on, all you CRN.info brilliant legal minds! Especially Joe, Iggy and Chris L. who have accused me and slandered me on multiple occasions…(I forgive you) You guys are experts at finding slander~ why won’t you do it? RA, who started this whole thing still has not shown on this OP where he was slandered. WHY? not because he does not have to, it is because he CANT! Why hasn’t Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt, Rob Bell, Rick Warren, et.AL. come after me or my little blog? THEY CAN’T!

I am giving you all the opportunity to show your excellent legal minds here. Otherwise, just put it to rest by admitting (RA) that you were wrong to do this in this way.

111   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:14 am

So basically, you’re saying that RA’s comment is more believable than something that Ken has demonstrated to be true. (Unless you honestly believe he wrote that e-mail?)

Against my better judgment I’m going to respond.

I believe that Ken didn’t write the letter he posted, the legal dept. at IPOWER did. I called and spoke directly with the legal dept. Guess what? They could not track down a Jennifer N. Additionally in speaking with them they stated emphatically that the site is no longer in their system and that they would “not cancel an account on word against word accusations.” Additionally while the 48 hour deadline was in the letter I was told that the legal dept. doesn’t work on the weekends and any action would have to wait until Monday to verify compliance.

I asked how could they not find anything in their system? Their response “1 of 2 reasons. Either the system was locked out by the owner of the account or the system was locked out because of phishing from a PHP add-on” The only info that they could find was that there were AOL notes on the account indicating potential “phishing”. But those notes could indicate also that another server was picking up the site.

Not that it matters now. Apprising is back up. Richard notes that he did contact IPOWER. I believe that IPOWER sent Ken the letter. But I firmly believe that Ken torched his former site and set up with a new ISP to look like a martyr. The date of the letter and what I know about site transfer timing indicates that the site was being moved prior to the supposed deadline. Again only God knows the truth.

It is sad.

112   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 10:18 am

Out of fear of Joe Martino, I will reply to the “Two Christianities” here and not on Submissions.

There are many versions of Christianity, but fortunately I have the only genuine one. The rest of you, I humbly suggest, will burn in the sulfuric fires of Gehenna because you did not agree with me.

Humbly submitted,

I am the Rev. Rick Frueh and I approved this message with the backing of heaven itself.

Humbly…

113   andy    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:21 am

Hi Ken never struck me as a person who would email himself pretending to be a staff member,either that email is from someone at the company,or someones playing games with Ken ??

I’m not saying i agree with everything crn as written, but it just doesnt strike me as his style..

Are people saying Kens lying about the email thats the bottom line right??

114   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:21 am

Rick,
How can I become part of you christianity?
How can I convert? LOL.

115   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:23 am

Chris,

What is sad is that you (and Chris L, and other Chris’) are the center of this site, and not Christ. (This according to your own wordle standard Joe C. set for apprising on submissions)

116   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:23 am

Andy,
That is what sounds to me.
Ken is a liar ? is this what chris implies?

117   andy    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:24 am

I do wonder if ur motives were to get to the truth ,or get one over on Ken though Chris only you know the answer to that i guess..

On a lighter note not a drop since my outrageous behaviour last week :-)

118   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:24 am

There are lot of versions of Christianity. Luckily we aren’t judged by which brand we are, but the test is whether or not we actually know Christ.

Sadly, we can do all the right things, but never know Him. I think there are plenty of folks that think theyknow about God, but they don’t actually know Him.

119   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 10:26 am

Jose – Send a seed faith gift every month of $100 and you’re in! :lol:

120   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:27 am

Are people saying Kens lying about the email thats the bottom line right??

Not implying that at all. I believe that he received that letter directly from IPOWER. According to the their legal dept. it is their standard form letter about TOS violations.

But I am implying that Ken moved his site not that IPOWER deleted it. Everyone assumed that IPOWER deleted it but IPOWER says they didn’t and nobody from the CRN crowd has explicitly said that IPOWER did.

Not that it matters now, Apprising is back up, and Richard has moved on. It’s just tragic that the fire burned so hot and so fast under the assumption that Apprising was being persecuted without any real proof.

121   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:29 am

I do wonder if ur motives were to get to the truth ,or get one over on Ken though Chris only you know the answer to that i guess..

My motives were to get the truth. You’re right only I know that. I’ve got no personal investment in this game. Other than making sure that we arguing about the truth and not some connect the dot sort of allegations against Richard.

122   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:32 am

Rick,
can you send me vile with your sweat along with your book. :) ?

123   andy    
July 29th, 2008 at 10:33 am

cool ;-)

124   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 10:33 am

What is sad is that you (and Chris L, and other Chris’) are the center of this site, and not Christ. (This according to your own wordle standard Joe C. set for apprising on submissions)

Yep John you got me!

125   Darren Sapp    http://www.vaporministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 10:39 am

This seems like a good time for us to read or re-read the August, 2007 article in Christianity Today by David Aikman linked below. I don’t intend for anyone to read it because it mentions Ken and to point fingers at him, but rather read the last three paragraphs in particular. What does this say about our conversations online? What does it say to unbelievers who might stumble on our websites?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2007/august/23.52.html

“But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.” – Matt.12:36

126   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 11:02 am

BARBARA,

EXPLANATIONS AS FOLLOWS:
Lighthouse Trails: More Ken Silva Propaganda
MORE ARGUMENTS: Ingrid Schlueter Speaks!
Ken Silva – More Lies, More Sensationalism, More Sin
____________________

127   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 11:04 am

John,

If you had read the other forums, I was doing the wordles just for interest. I was sure to do ALL of the websites to compare, which you didn’t notice. In reality, it doesn’t mean much because it only makes a word cloud out of the front page of the site. I think the point I was trying to make was that in all of this hysteria going on, Christ is no where to be found, or is ‘very small’ on our sites, most of all on Apprising. Jesus, God and Christ do exist in the wordle of this site however, fyi.

I wouldn’t take the wordle word clouds so seriously John. Me saying “this is supposed to be a Christian site?” is more thought provoking, I think.

In the words of the immortal Joker…

“whhyyy sooo serrrriouss..?”

PS, I don’t represent CRN.info, so I don’t set the ’standard’ at all. Neither does CRN.info set any standards, God does. Whatever dumb stuff I say, or wrong things that I do, shouldn’t be attributed to the authors here, that’s not fair. But i’m not saying that doing wordles is wrong. It’s fun. :)

128   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 11:07 am

Darren,

That’s exactly the point I wanted to make by showing the wordle word clouds of all of our websites. With all this hysteria and badgering, what do the Christians or not Christians who stumble on our site think?

129   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 11:24 am

Amen, Joe, Point made!

130   Joe Martino    http://joemartino.name
July 29th, 2008 at 11:25 am

If Saul could become Paul, anything is possible.

Actually, he was always both. Saul is Jewish, Paul is Gentile. Free Bible lesson of the day.

131   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 11:30 am

WHY DID I WAIT SO LONG TO COMPLAIN ABOUT KEN SILVA’S ARTICLE?

Guys/Gals,

This is a question that manypeople, including some of you have asked, so I thought I’d answer it over at Todd’s Monday Morning Insights. Have a read. I hope it explains things a bit clearer.

WHY DID I WAIT SO LONG TO COMPLAIN ABOUT KEN SILVA’S ARTICLE?

RAbanes

132   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

Still waiting…. looking for the slander…can’t find it…help me

133   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

Still waiting…. looking for the slander…can’t find it…help me

John you crack me up sometimes!

134   Bo Diaz    
July 29th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

Pastorboy,
We are still waiting for that article condemning Ms. Schlueter’s employment of lawyers to shut down what she didn’t want anyone else to see.

135   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 12:30 pm

Bo,

Why would I condemn that? Those guys were not Christians. She has every right! And, it was actually slander, defamation, and Libel.

I think I will dig up a picture of your wife/girlfriend and tell the world you have a drug habit and cook meth in your basement. (I wouldn’t do this) but how would you like it?

136   Phil Miller    http://pmwords.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

Why would I condemn that? Those guys were not Christians. She has every right! And, it was actually slander, defamation, and Libel.

I think I will dig up a picture of your wife/girlfriend and tell the world you have a drug habit and cook meth in your basement. (I wouldn’t do this) but how would you like it?

Hmmm…

I vaguely recall Jesus answering a question about who our neighbor was. I’m sure He was referring to our Christian neighbors…huh, John?

137   Bo Diaz    
July 29th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

I think I will dig up a picture of your wife/girlfriend and tell the world you have a drug habit and cook meth in your basement. (I wouldn’t do this) but how would you like it?

You are unable to speak the truth even when dealing with something right in front of your face. No claims of meth cooking happened, as far as I can tell from VS (currently the only source online for the incident), there wasn’t even claims of drug use outside of alcohol. Why do you have to lie to make your point?

Ms. Schleuter wasn’t even able to make claims of libel, only a “tort of false light” (which doesn’t require an outright false statement to be made).

Also, how do you know this was not published by a Christian? By their actions? By that standard, most of those running ODM websites couldn’t be considered Christians, in fact, I doubt any Christian could be considered a Christian. You are confusing sanctification with salvation.

So quit being a hypocrite and start condemning those you agree with for taking more extreme actions than those you disagree with.

138   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

Phil,

The command in 1 Cor 6 and Matthew 18 deals with Christians, not neighbors. We are not to go to law against brothers and sisters in Christ, like Richard threatened to do.

But, lets attack Ingrid to take the focus off of the wrong Richard did

Bo,

I didn’t lie, I don’t know the claims totally, the site was removed! But I do know that they got some photos and made false accusations having to do with drugs or illegal activities. In other words, they spoke lies meant to defame. Show me some slander in the article that Ken wrote, please.

139   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 12:57 pm

Pastorboy,

I suggest you read the admission that has now been made online by one of YOUR OWN critics of Purpose Driven, who stands firmly against Rick Warren.

Please click your way over to the “July 29, 2008 at 11:45 AM” response posted by CS at MONDAY MORNING INSIGHTS He certainly saw it. I see no reason why you can’t see the obvious.

R. Abanes

140   Bo Diaz    
July 29th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

I didn’t lie, I don’t know the claims totally, the site was removed! But I do know that they got some photos and made false accusations having to do with drugs or illegal activities.

No, you don’t know that at all. The claim made was that the boyfriend was “quite a parier”, no mention of illegal drugs, and no mention of meth cooking.

This is exactly the kind of high quality research we’ve come to expect from ODMs. That, and justifying sin from those you consider to be your friends.

141   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:00 pm

BO: We are still waiting for that article condemning Ms. Schlueter’s employment of lawyers to shut down what she didn’t want anyone else to see.

RA: I am ALSO still waiting to see from any ODM some kind of condemnation of how the Deborah Dombrowski at Lighthouse Trials used intimidation against my publisher, Harvest House, in an apparent attempt to get them to not release my book on Rick Warren!!! Anyone? For more information on how they tried to pull this little trick, see my article Lighthouse Trails: More Ken Silva Propaganda

RA

142   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

Pastorboy: The command in 1 Cor 6 and Matthew 18 deals with Christians, not neighbors. We are not to go to law against brothers and sisters in Christ, like Richard threatened to do.

RA: Sad. Sooo untrue. And it’s already been explained. Silva is spinning this like a hoola hoop around everyone. I suggest you read everything again, and this time a little closer. For the record:

1. File a lawsuit against Mr. Silva.
2. Threaten to file a lawsuit agianst Mr. Silva.
3. Contact an attorney about beginning a lawsuit against Mr. Silva.

You and others DESPERATELY want me to have done all these things, so you just say I did it and off you go!!!

The truth is that I sent a simple email to Mr. Silva’s ISP requesting that they review ONE of his news articles because I felt it that it had not only violated their TOS agreement, but was libelous and offensive in tone. Based on the article’s content, the ISP’s decision was to ask Mr. Silva to remove the article — or else he would have his website deleted.

Silva stubbornly refused to follow that simple request from the ISP with whom he had entered into a TOS agreement. It was HIS willful defiance that caused his website to disappear. I had nothing to do with that ultimate turn of events.

R. Abanes

143   Christian P    http://www.churchvoices.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

I find it interesting that in Ken’s post on Apprising he says that he is bringing the matter before the body of Christ. Really? How exactly?

We can’t get together to talk about it, comments aren’t even allowed on his site. There are no Elder’s to judge the matter. What Ken has done with that post and his many others on other sites is to tattle.

144   emergent pillage    http://emergentpillage.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

–Actually, he was always both. Saul is Jewish, Paul is Gentile.–

Well, I guess that puts paid to Romans 9 and Paul saying he was troubled about his people. All that talk about the Jews just afterwards, whodathunk that Paul was actually talking about the Gentiles being his people.

–Free Bible lesson of the day.–

You get what you…oh, you know…

–You and others DESPERATELY want me to have done all these things, so you just say I did it and off you go!!!–

So, we are suppose to think that the letter you sent did not say this.

–Before turning this situation over to my attorneys, I respectfully request that IPOWERWEB.NET / IPOWERWEB.COM remove this particular article from it’s servers, and notify Ken Silva to cease and desist the posting similar articles. I have no wish to name IPOWERWEB.NET / IPOWERWEB.COM in a legal suit, and hope to resolve this issue as quickly and easily as possible.–

Come on, anyone really want to say that this is NOT threatening “a legal suit”?

145   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 1:22 pm

The truth is that I sent a simple email to Mr. Silva’s ISP . . .
Silva stubbornly refused to follow that simple request from the ISP with whom he had entered into a TOS agreement. It was HIS willful defiance that caused his website to disappear. I had nothing to do with that ultimate turn of events.

What arrogance.

And it’s only compounded by your recent comments on Todd’s Monday Morning Insight. Now you’re starting to focus even more on THOSE PEOPLE who disagree with you who are spiritually, morally psychologically troubled, who use obscenity, threats, etc . . .

Just when are you going to focus on the people who disagree with what you’ve done who are stable individuals who simply have a different opinion than you do about your attitude and the scriptural basis for your actions.? ARE THERE ANY FOLKS WHO DISAGREE WITH YOU WHO AREN’T using profanity, who are not spiritually, morally, psychologically troubled?

IF there aren’t such folks, why don’t you interact with them and forget about the ones who sound like they didn’t get their rabies shots?

I wouldn’t want to read any of your books because I see from your numerous discussions how you want to lump people who don’t see things as you do.

My opinion is the church needs to wake up and expose these people for who and what they are—i.e., very troubled individuals (spiritually, morally, and psychologically) who are damaging the Body of Christ.

146   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 1:24 pm

The last three paragraphs should read like this:

IF there ARE such folks, why don’t you interact with them and forget about the ones who sound like they didn’t get their rabies shots?

I wouldn’t want to read any of your books because I see from your numerous discussions how you want to lump people who don’t see things as you do.

The last was your own quote that I meant to delete:

My opinion is the church needs to wake up and expose these people for who and what they are—i.e., very troubled individuals (spiritually, morally, and psychologically) who are damaging the Body of Christ.

147   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:40 pm

EMERGENT: Come on, anyone really want to say that this is NOT threatening “a legal suit”?

RA: What would you have called it if I, for example, would have handed it over to my attorneys and said, “Guys, look at this. I’m not sure where to go from here, since I’ve already contacted Silva’s ISP. What do you think I should do because I am at a loss?”

Is that a lawsuit? NO!!!!!!

Oh, and let us not forget, that the only reason you even have ACCESS to that email is because Ken Silva, pastor/teacher, mentored student of Walter Martin (LoL) deliberately violated federal copyright/privacy laws by posting an unpublished private email on the Internet. Mmmkay? What about that little factoid? Bother you at all? No, I didn’t think so.

And finally, you say I threatened a lawsuit? Well, for the sake of discussion — Cool! Let’s say I did. Who was that email addressed to???? Answer: IPOWER. So if anyone was threatened it was IPOWER!!! Not Ken Silva because that email was not to him!

Pleeeze tell me where 1 Corinthians 6 says that we, as Christians, cannot sue heathen, godless, worldly institutions when a wrong has been committed. I eagerly await your exegesis.

Richard Abanes

148   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

AMY: IF there aren’t such folks, why don’t you interact with them and forget about the ones who sound like they didn’t get their rabies shots?

RA: I interacted with CS over at Todd’s blog who says he adamantly DISAGREES with Warren and all things Purpose Driven. Can you direct me to someone else? I’m not having very many people to choose from.

RA

149   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:45 pm

AMY,

ROFL!!!! As I was hitting the send button to that last post to YOU, California was just hit with a major earthquake — one of the largest ones I have ever felt.

GLORY!! PTL!! GOD IS MOVING SHAKING THE HEAVENS OVER THIS CONTROVERSY!!!!!

RAbanes

150   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 1:47 pm

I wouldn’t want to read any of your books because I see from your numerous discussions how you want to lump people who don’t see things as you do.

Amy,

It’s good to see that you finally coming out agains this. It’s odd how you don’t see this in the ODMs theology/practice, but OK. Team warfare, eh?

151   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm

Richard

Good points there in 147. I hadn’t thought of that. Very interesting.

152   RayJr    
July 29th, 2008 at 1:54 pm

Re: My comment #99

It’s back up here:

http://apprising.org/2005/09/a-pastors-assessment-of-richard-abanes/

but it doesn’t show up in the September 2005 archives.

153   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Richard,

I thought you were kidding about the Earthquake, but it’s real, I checked 8O. 5.8 in LA. We should pray.

154   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

Still waiting on the paragraph/line/word that was defamatory or slanderous deserving of this threat:

Before turning this situation over to my attorneys, I respectfully request that IPOWERWEB.NET / IPOWERWEB.COM remove this particular article from it’s servers

155   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 2:06 pm

It’s good to see that you finally coming out agains this. It’s odd how you don’t see this in the ODMs theology/practice, but OK. Team warfare, eh?

I’m not “finally” coming out against this. I see “lumping” in almost everybody’s theology/practice. Do you know of anyone who doesn’t to some degree? I don’t.

You don’t know all I’ve written, all the discussions I’ve had with people in my life. So you don’t know what I’ve said to folks you might classify as “discerners.” You also don’t know any personal convictions I’ve had about my own theology/practices.

Correct?

In this case I was specifically addressing Richard’s comments on Todd’s sites. Do you see the lumping there? If not, why not?

And just so you know, I would say “what arrogance” to anyone who made the remark that Richard keeps repeating. The idea of, “If you’d done what I wanted you to do, you wouldn’t be suffering; it’s your own fault” accompanied by self-righteousness is the battle-cry of many an abuser. Can’t you see it?

156   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pm

My last sentence would be better stated “accompanied by what appears to be a self-righteous or arrogant attitude.” I don’t know if Richard is “self-righteous” and I don’t want to make that accusation against him.

157   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pm

I can see it.

The only reason I brought up all that is because you seem to come down in defense of the indefensible (the ODM’s actions) more often than not. However, I’m ready to admit that because I only see you post on this site, I could only be seeing half of it. However again, I’m not so sure that’s the case, with the way you speak to people here sometimes. It seems to imply strong bias against this site and what it stands for. Just saying Amy. We all have our bias, and ‘team’ unfortunately. Instead of working together, it always seems to end up this way. Someone always has to be exclusive and condemnatory, contra/despite Jesus’ message.

r

Joe

158   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

I don’t know if Richard is “self-righteous” and I don’t want to make that accusation against him.

Because you don’t want CRN.info to be shut down by their webserver either. I would be nervous also

159   Joe C    
July 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm

John,

It’s comments like that above that serve no purpose to the conversation and only fan the flames worse and worse, and incite people to continue fighing. Come on.

You seem really hurt over all of this, you’re acting very passive-agressive. I admit I’m upset too, but we have to cool the engines, don’t you think?

160   Ken Silva    http://www.apprising.org
July 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pm

“Silva is spinning this like a hoola hoop around everyone.”

I am? You know this for a fact, do you?

161   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

Because you don’t want CRN.info to be shut down by their webserver either. I would be nervous also

I don’t mean to keep trumpeting this but…Ken shut down his site not IPOWER. I actually did the RESEARCH as implied in the title of this here site.

Before turning this situation over to my attorneys, I respectfully request that IPOWERWEB.NET / IPOWERWEB.COM remove this particular article from it’s
servers

John I consulted my attorney last week about zoning issue I’m having on my house. I turned it over to him to get his counsel as to what my legal rights are. I read Richards comments in a similar vein.

162   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm

May I have a list of which ODM’s site I should not visit because of hypocrisy and slander?
1. AM
2. SOL
3. LHT
4. ET
5. WOT
6. ?

163   Nathan    
July 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Jose,

visit any site that makes you more like Christ because you visited. it. The five you listed normally do not do that for me.

164   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm

The entire deal represents an incredible and delusionally inflated importance of these blogs including mine. Like television, turn the channel.

They’re blogs people, kinda like internet graffiti! It’s like claiming a doodle pad is Rembrandt! :roll:

165   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pm

These are the links to articles by Ken and Mrs. Schlueter that have criticzed me.

Link

Link

Link

Here is a link to an open letter by me to Ken Silva:

Link

Here is the question I would ask. If I had posted such a letter about you, would you still be my friend? Ken still remains a friend and did not attempt to take down my blog because of my post. Is that the behavior of a Christian? With anything I disagree with Ken about, he has acted as a brother in Christ even when I have confronted him publicly and in private. I always tell him I will still speak my conscience and he understands. In that I salute him for showing forgiveness.

Not many would continue to communicate with me given those circumstances, even the non-ODMs.

That is the rest of the story.

166   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

Joe C.

I am not hurt, I am concerned. If RA can write a complaint letter, infering that there is slander on a site (there is NOT) and just infer that he will contact his attorneys, and the ISP closes down a site without investigation, just on an insinuation (a false one), then NO ONE who likes the first amendment can feel safe.

167   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:08 pm

and the ISP closes down a site without investigation

*rolls eyes

then NO ONE who likes the first amendment can feel safe.

Oh brother…

168   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

and the ISP closes down a site without investigation, just on an insinuation (a false one),

Now you’re just ignoring the evidence John.

169   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:20 pm

I am now debating Ken Silva online at MONDAY MORNING INSIGHTS in the comments section. Feel free to watch. It is very interesting.

R. Abanes

170   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm

Joe C.

What evidence? I have linked the original article, and have challenged anyone to come up with one libelous statement.

Chris,

Roll your eyes all you want; free speech has been dealt a blow over this last week by your team.

171   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

Still waiting for RA or ANYONE to point out this alleged libel….

172   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

pastorboy,

OPEN YOUR EYES.

“Spirit of blindness, COME OUT!!!!!” (he sez using his best Todd Bentley imitation).

I’ll try again because I actually feel kind of sorry for you.

The article in question was NOT “religious and theological opinion.” It stated NOTHING about my doctrinal views: theology, soteriology, eschatology, or thanatology (see the challenge to Ken Silva and his supporters that I’ve repeatedly presented).

Now, think for a moment pastorboy, if that article doesn’t contain anything about my doctrine/theology, what do you think is left for Silva to go after??

Easy.

Go slow.

Take a moment……

Okay, here, I’ll help: That article was personal in all its attacks. It was nothing more than an article deliberately designed to impugn my personal/professional integrity.

In other words, the whole article in its entirety, was designed to harm my public reputation as a Christian author. Get it??!

This was my last attempt. You go into that article yourself, Pastorboy, and come back to post anything in there that critiqued my theology, soteriology, eschatology, or thanatology.

I REALLY look forward to seeing that material.

R. Abanes

173   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

Roll your eyes all you want; free speech has been dealt a blow over this last week by your team.

Right…Free speech. You mean unlike the blogs who don’t allow comments.

You see this is where I really believe that your disingenuous John. The facts are plain in this matter and you refuse to get off your self-righteous bit. It’s rather nauseating.

You waffle so much between your opinions and what stances you take. It kinda reminds of the man tossed about by the waves. But I won’t suggest for a minute that you’re a heretic. Misguided and confused yes…heretic NO!

As for most of your comments here I recognize that your merely an instigator with no real substance to back up your claims.

174   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

The evidence that the ISP didn’t delete the site, and that Abanes never threatened to sue Ken, a CHRISTIAN, nor did he even threaten to sue the ISP for that matter. Lots of other stuff too…mentioned in this forum…which you’re not reading I guess? What’s the deal?

175   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

When you mention the word “doctor” you know it involves sickness. I have written letters in my business that mention “lawyers” and everyone understands what is meant.

You do not mention “lawyers” for nothing. An intial “shot across the bow” letter that mentions legal action is meant to awaken the person to a coming possibility.

176   pastorboy    http://www.thedowngrade2007.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

OPEN YOUR EYES.
“Spirit of blindness, COME OUT!!!!!” (he sez using his best Todd Bentley imitation).

Just don’t kick me in the head, please.

RA, don’t feel sorry for me. I feel sorry for you. KS did not say anything slanderous whatsoever. He gave an opinion. He did not impugn your character, he objected to your blind faith in a man (RW) and a plan (PDL, P.E.A.C.E. etc)

You can hide behind your justification. You insinuated legal action against Ken in your letter to I Power, and threatened to include them in it.

Personal in all of its attacks? Nah. An opinion piece, an assessment which was the opinion of one man. I am sorry that he has a less than favorable opinion of you.

But since the stink that was brought up by you and publicized by Him, I am sure that the reading of that little piece was 100 times the amount that it had been read up to that point. You in your blind offense caused this article to be dusted off and read by a whole bunch of people that would never read it!

And more are reading it day by day!

You unwittingly provided an avenue by which a non-prominent piece would be accessed over and again.

I feel sorry for you Richard; you didn’t see that one coming, did you?

What it comes down to is a disagreement between brothers, an opinion of one comes down vs. the views of another. It should have been handled differently. You have now set a precedent that you will have to deal with.

I have a whole list of ISP’s I am going to threaten. (Satire) starting with Wordpress (satire)

177   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:50 pm

RICK: You do not mention “lawyers” for nothing. An initial “shot across the bow” letter that mentions legal action is meant to awaken the person to a coming possibility.

RA: Rather than argue this point ad nauseum ad infinitum with you, I offer the following, which no one has yet answered:

You say I implied a lawsuit? Well, for the sake of discussion — Cool! Let’s say I did. Who was that email addressed to???? Answer: IPOWER. So if anyone was threatened with a lawsuit, it was IPOWER!!! It was not Ken Silva because that email was not to him!

Pleeeze tell me, therefore, where 1 Corinthians 6 says that we, as Christians, cannot sue heathen, godless, worldly institutions when a wrong has been committed. I eagerly await your exegesis.

RAbanes

178   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

This is the way I see RA letter.

If you don’t tell KS to remove a post, I will be force to bring this up to my lawyers.

In other words.
IF you don’t get this done, i will sue you.

This is like watching a spanish soap opera.

179   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Therefore, IPOWER said.
” Before we get sued let’s tell AM to remove the post. IF AM does not comply we will shut AM down.”

then ken silva shut his web site so that IPOWER wouldn’t do it for
him. KS moved to another ISP.

And the saga continues.

180   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

Richard – you are completely disingenuous in your tortured defense. You did threaten legal action and in that you made a mistake. I cannot understand why you will not admit that and move on. Your continued denial is more of a mistake than your e-mail.

181   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

PB: KS did not say anything slanderous whatsoever. He gave an opinion.

RA: Dang, I odn’t have the gift of healing.

PB: He did not impugn your character, he objected to your blind faith in a man (RW)

RA: ROFL. “Blind faith in a man (RW)” — oh yeah, that’s not slanderous at all, it just means I am following a man and not Jesus Christ! And not only am I following a man, instead of GOd, I am following blindly. Wow, you’re right. Nope, nothing that might make peopel think twice about reading my Christian books on apologetics from that. (he sez rolling his eyes). But darned if you didn’t hit on one of the problmes all on your own.

PB: You insinuated legal action against Ken in your letter to I Power, and threatened to include them in it.

RA: ROFL. Whatever. I want to believe what you want to believe, PB, despite the facts in black and white. So, I say, have a blessed life.

PB: And more are reading it day by day!

RA: Then that was God’s sovereign will. He allows all kinds of things to take place that are tragic, damaging, hurtful, and disappointing to us — e.g., like the proliferation in cults, false doctrines, and divisive/hatefilled accusers of the brethren. I can have peace and joy in knowing God is in control, and I am without sin in this incident.

PB: I feel sorry for you Richard; you didn’t see that one coming, did you?

RA: No. Butit doesn’t matter to me. Because through what is happening, I believe the truly dark, destructive, and diseased nature of the online discernment camp is being exposed. I take comfort in that, too. And I praise God.

RA

182   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 4:00 pm

RICK: Richard – you are completely disingenuous in your tortured defense. You did threaten legal action and in that you made a mistake. I cannot understand why you will not admit that and move on. Your continued denial is more of a mistake than your e-mail.

RA: I can’t understand why you won’t answer this:

You say I threatened a lawsuit? Well, for the sake of discussion — Cool! Let’s say I did. Who was that email addressed to???? Answer: IPOWER. So if anyone was threatened with a lawsuit, it was IPOWER!!! It was not Ken Silva because that email was not to him!

Pleeeze tell me, therefore, where 1 Corinthians 6 says that we, as Christians, cannot sue heathen, godless, worldly institutions when a wrong has been committed. I eagerly await your exegesis.

Answer it.

R.Abanes

183   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm

A secular conduit does not mean that your intent was not toward Ken. Again, tortured.

184   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 4:05 pm

Richard – are you openly suggesting that if you went forward with litigation that you would not have included Ken and his AM site as co-defendants? Are you actually saying that??

185   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm

RA,
is your blog, books & post
not Online discerment?

“RA: No. Butit doesn’t matter to me. Because through what is happening, I believe the truly dark, destructive, and diseased nature of the online discernment camp is being exposed. I take comfort in that, too. And I praise God.”

186   Darren Sapp    http://www.vaporministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

When my boys are fighting and fussing, I separate them and tell them to not talk to each other, look at each other, smell each other, touch each other, or even think about each other for 20 minutes. We call it a cooling off period. I don’t care who is right and who is wrong, I just want it resolved with cooler heads. They typically forget all about it.

Ken and Richard, I realize you are not children, but I think you both would benefit by not writing, discussing, or thinking about each other for 30 days. I am not trying to belittle either one of you or suggest one of you is right or wrong. Take a break, take a deep breath, and be filled with the spirit. I am sure you would both prefer that anyway. If all else fails, pray for each other.

Perhaps this site, Ingrid, et al. could help by avoiding this topic as well.

187   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

RA: …. is your blog, books & post
not Online discerment?

RA No. I’m a basic, run-of-the-mill, generalized author/journalist. My books are published through major publishing companies and I write for major Christian magazines. My website/blog is an extension of that ministry/career.

The Online Discernment Ministry (ODM) is an entirely different animal. Those primarily involved in this kind of activity have capitalized on the lack of accountability and responsibility that exists throughout cyberspace.

The Internet is like one, big, sprawling TABLOID wherein everyone with something to say can just type away, push a button, and there it is for all the world to see, regardless of how factual, hateful, or damaging it might be.

In any other professional publishing situation, written statements are vetted to make sure they meet civil, factual, and legal standards. It is a safety measure, not only for authors, but also for those about whom they write. This safety measure is absent, for the most part, on the Internet — including at Ken Silva’s website and the website of other ODMs.

My point, which I think I have made very clear now, is that these people have a responsibility when making public pronouncements on their websites. But they flee all attempts to bring them in line with normal social/legal rules governing civil discourse.

They want to say/do what they want to say and do no matter how hurtful or hateful it might be to someone else’s reputation, livelihood, and public image. To let go of lack of accountability would cause no small headache for them. And that is why I believe they are responding so violently.

R. Abanes

188   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 4:20 pm

Rick, Brother,

I think you’re wrong in your assessment. That’s coming from me, to you, personally. Please reconsider the facts on the ground.

Yours

Joe

189   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

That was to Rick Frueh. Sorry for confusion.

I still love you Rick!

190   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 4:34 pm

“Rick, Brother,

I think you’re wrong in your assessment. That’s coming from me, to you, personally. Please reconsider the facts on the ground.

Yours

Joe”

Right back at ya, brother. I have reconsidered the facts on the ground and found my assessment to be unassailable. :lol:

191   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm

Rick: I have reconsidered the facts on the ground and found my assessment to be unassailable.

RA: STILL NO ANSWER TO……..

You say I threatened a lawsuit? Well, for the sake of discussion — Cool! Let’s say I did. Who was that email addressed to???? Answer: IPOWER. So if anyone was threatened with a lawsuit, it was IPOWER!!! It was not Ken Silva because that email was not to him!

Pleeeze tell me, therefore, where 1 Corinthians 6 says that we, as Christians, cannot sue heathen, godless, worldly institutions when a wrong has been committed. I eagerly await your exegesis.

Waiting to hear from your unassailable position.

RABANES

192   Paula    http://www.purposedrivel.com
July 29th, 2008 at 4:47 pm

Interesting that Ken’s posted email from I Power is “alleged” but we are to take your word for the hate mail you have ‘allegedly’ been receiving.

Verrry verrry interesting….

193   CS    
July 29th, 2008 at 4:54 pm

Richard:

“The Online Discernment Ministry (ODM) is an entirely different animal. Those primarily involved in this kind of activity have capitalized on the lack of accountability and responsibility that exists throughout cyberspace.”

I don’t know about that. I would say that sites like crn.info, Verum Serum, and several others have taken the position of being Online Discernment Ministry Discerners and pointing out the flaws with some of their statements. (Kind of sounds like the Department of Redundancy Department.)

When discernment is made using Biblical evidence and support to expose problems with theology and doctrine, like in 2 Timothy 3:16, I rejoice. When it’s name calling, that isn’t right. On either side. And I admit I’ve done my fair share of it, too.


CS

194   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

Interesting that Ken’s posted email from I Power is “alleged” but we are to take your word for the hate mail you have ‘allegedly’ been receiving.

Come on Paula keep up with the comments.

NOBODY SAID KENS EMAIL FROM IPOWER WAS ALLEGED! WE ALL BELIEVE KEN GOT NOTICE FROM IPOWER!

Did everyone see that now.

195   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

VERY VERY IMPORTANT — Just posted at Monday Morning Insights by me:

_________________
Okay, okay, okay WAIT WAIT WAIT. STOP!!!!

As much as Ken Silva bugs me and has hurt me on so many levels, I will NOT stand by and let more misinformation be spread.

I have an email I received from IPOWER that is indeed from a “Jennifer N.” confirming to me that IPOWER asked Ken to remove the offending article or have his website taken down.

Ken DID NOT fake that email. What he did do, however, was use it to his advantage by allowing his website to come down (which never really needed to happen at all), then just popping it back up again somewhere else — and now, with the article intact, although he certainly knows now how I feel about it.

This email, by the way, stated that they DO NOT simply remove a website when a third party complains. Jennifer stated in her email to me that they INVESTIGATE promptly and take APPROPRIATE ACTION!!!!!

This means that all I really did was call attention to what I though was a clear violation of IPOWER’S TOS agreement. They did INVESTIGATE PROMPTLY and given what they found took APPROPRIATE ACTION.

No one is bothering to acknowledge that what this means is that Ken actually HAD VIOLATED their TOS agreement!!! KEN!! Are you out there? Anyone want to write an article about how we should be abiding by our TOS agreements that we strike our hand to???

R. Abanes

196   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm

The ISP was just the intermediary to the obvious object of your suit, Ken and his blog.

The man who hires another to commit a crime against someone is just as guilty. And if I understand you correctly, you consider yourself sinless and justified in all of this.

197   Keith    http://fivepts.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

“generalized author/journalist” = award-winning, bestselling journalist

:)

198   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:04 pm

Keith,

Way to pile on and distract from the conversation.

199   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm

The energy you expend in self defending is incredible. You seem to be using your apologist skills to exonerate yourself from all guilt. Anyway, ken’s new blog is better than the old one and he has probably received much more attention than he had previously.

In essence, you have helped a brother and his ministry. The gift of helps in the blogasphere!

200   Jose    
July 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

so there is a Jenneifer N?

201   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

Crime? Crime? Here’s a few “crimes” if you want them.

1. Read my #194. Ken Silva violated his TOS agreement, according to the prompt investigation done by IPOWER, who in turn took appropriate action in their eyes. Blame Ken.

2. Ken turned this thing into a firestorm with horrendously destructive results by posting his sensational response “RICHARD ABANES TO SUE APPRISING MINISTRIES OVER DEFAMATION-LIBEL?” Blame Ken.

3. In this same sensational article, he actually broke federal copyright and privacy laws!! No one seems to care. Blame Ken.

4. The article in question is being held up as a critique of my doctrine/theology, but as yet, not a single person — you and Ken included — have bothered producing one sentence where in he actually critiques my doctrine/theology! Everyone is going mad over it. Blame Ken.

You’re making it ever increasingly hard for me to still like you, Rick. And, TBH, you’ve kind of hurt my feelings here with your incessant and ludicrous defenses of Ken Silva.Our conversations, for a while at least, are over.

RA

202   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:15 pm

so there is a Jenneifer N?

Yes. I just posted on MMI that I’m sorry that my comment was unclear earlier. I thought the further dialog erased the possibility that the letter was an actual letter.

Which I never doubted as it had Richards email attached to it. I was certain that Richard would’ve said something if he had not contacted IPOWER.

203   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth? You have an increasingly obvious bitternes toward Ken. So if agreeing with you is the prerequisite for speaking with you than I guess that counts me out.

204   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pm

the possibility that the letter was an actual letter.

Should read:

the possibility that the letter was fabricated.

205   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

So basically, you’re saying that RA’s comment is more believable than something that Ken has demonstrated to be true. (Unless you honestly believe he wrote that e-mail?)

Ken has “demonstrated” nothing. It is possible that the email is authentic, but as Chris notes – no Jennifer N. works for iPower’s legal department, and (from iPower and personal experience) ISP’s don’t typically run non-emergency operations on weekends, and iPower denies they do anything like what Ken has described. Additionally, everything about the whole mess, from Ken’s end, is completely fishy – from the “letter” through all of the odd business processes supposedly followed, but denied, by iPower.

So – I’m left with a choice – believe Ken, who demonstrably lies and tells half-truths frequently on the blog in question – or – believe iPower, with whom I have no evidence of previous falsehood, and whose story lines up with the general reality of ISP operations…

Hi Ken never struck me as a person who would email himself pretending to be a staff member,either that email is from someone at the company,or someones playing games with Ken ??

Did Ken fabricate the entire letter? It could be the original letter – as written – or could have originally been a letter from iPower with later embellishments to make it coincide with Ken’s need to switch services, anyway (kind of analogous to “studying at the feet of Walter Martin” who had been dead for several years at the time…)

Joe M: Actually, he was always both. Saul is Jewish, Paul is Gentile. Free Bible lesson of the day.

I would disagree – Paul was Jewish both before and after the name change. I would still contend that he took it from the Paullus family, his first Gentile converts, for political reasons.

richard abanes Says:
July 29th, 2008 at 1:43 pm e

AMY: …

Come back toward the light, Richard, come back…

PB: Still waiting on the paragraph/line/word that was defamatory or slanderous deserving of this threat:

Don’t ask us – I said I didn’t know what Richard was identifying as libelous in my OP this weekend. At the same time, it very well may be there, but I don’t have the context to see it.

It’s kind of like the vegetarian suing a guy for slander when he told people about a conversation they had over steaks… Sometimes only the person offended can identify what is untrue about a statement about them…

PB: Because you don’t want CRN.info to be shut down by their webserver either. I would be nervous also

I don’t know of any writer here worried about that. I know my ISP personally, and he’s not going to do anything rash because he gets a letter from an ODM complaining about something we wrote. Go ahead and write him to ask…

PB: If RA can write a complaint letter, infering that there is slander on a site (there is NOT) and just infer that he will contact his attorneys, and the ISP closes down a site without investigation, just on an insinuation (a false one), then NO ONE who likes the first amendment can feel safe.

Since it appears that Ken took down his own site, the fear factor has moved from 1 (on a scale of 1 to 10) to 0…

free speech has been dealt a blow over this last week by your team.

There is only one ‘team’ – the church. It’s just that some kids tend to fight more often than others. Free speech has been dealt nothing but a self-immolation party thrown by a drama queen.

Richard – to the general public, your letter had the import of threatening a lawsuit. From a business standpoint, I understand boilerplate language and that this was an initial letter. Most anyone in an established business would recognize it as a serious request, and not just a crackpot, but also would understand that it was preliminary to any legal fact-finding.

Still, though, it gives the appearance of bringing suit to a neophyte – and an appearance of Christian impropriety (i.e. threatening to take a brother to court). Additionally, since you didn’t go to Ken first, it also removes the high ground of having Ken reject your request before seeking mediation.

206   Joe C    http://www.joe4gzus.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pm

I think we should just stop. Rick, Richard is obviously upset about this whole situation and since he’s directly involved he might have perspectives you can’t seem to grasp. So your comments frustrate him, clearly. Maybe he feels like explaining this situation to you is like trying to explain color to a blind man (just a metaphor, no offense meant). If you see it from his perspective, maybe this IS pretty hard on him. So maybe everyone should take a break and COOL OFF. Thanks.

Joe

207   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasorared.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

Chris,

NOBODY SAID KENS EMAIL FROM IPOWER WAS ALLEGED! WE ALL BELIEVE KEN GOT NOTICE FROM IPOWER!

I think this

NOTE: Having been on the receiving end of nasty anti-Christian email from Ken’s backers in the past, RA’s aside comment about the crap landing in his email box is unsurprising and much more believable than Ken’s story and the alleged email he posted on CRN…Comment 82

was what was being refferred to specifically along with a general grassy knoll attitude exhibited by many here.

Thanks.

208   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:30 pm

Thanks S.J.!

I recognize how that was implied from my earlier comments and have hopefully cleared it up with comment #202.

209   Sad    
July 29th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

I see a bunch of bloody faced dogs…snarling…biting…whining and jumping in because of the frenzy….
That isn’t a picture of Christ and the turning of the cheek or the King of Glory with a reed placed in His hand while being mocked.

210   Sad    
July 29th, 2008 at 5:36 pm

Rick F,
After all your heart felt writings I have read…I think I’m most disgusted at your actions here. I think you should stop and get out of this conversation while you aren’t walking by the Spirit.

211   Sad    
July 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

I also noticed this…first thing Ken S. does when the new site is up is request money.
Typical American Christianity: “We need money to do God’s work here”.

212   Ken Silva    http://www.apprising.org
July 29th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Chris L.,

“no Jennifer N. works for iPower’s legal department”…

Richard,

“I have an email I received from IPOWER that is indeed from a ‘Jennifer N.’ ”

Thank you Richard, and of course I forgive you Chris Lyons. :-)

213   CS    
July 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

Pastorboy and Chris:

In looking at Silva’s article, while there are no blatant examples of slander or defamation, it’s the overall tone and vocabulary that comes together that gives the impression that it’s an attack on character rather than a discernment of the flaws of Abanes’ theology or doctrine. The words are definitely vitriolic, including, “superficial” and “poor Christian example.” The tone does not convey someone trying to correct a brother, or expose things in light of Scripture, but a pointed attack.

The closest things I found to direct slander were:

“Mr. Abanes reminds me of a little child who has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar”

and…

“Please believe me, I derive no pleasure by setting this before you as a sorry role model for a leading Christian spokesman.”

Keep in mind I’m not defending the doctrine or theology to which Abanes adheres, or his tone of voice either. In many of the responses that Abanes has been making in light of this topic, perhaps by egged on by people and growing tired of things, I am sensing a similar harsh tone emerging with some of the comments. And I still think the PD mentality that he follows is outright wrong.

What I am saying is if this sort of article was written towards me with the same ferocity, I’d probably be upset and cry, “foul,” too.


CS

214   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 5:59 pm

My apologies, Ken, for the error…

215   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 6:05 pm

CS: etc etc etc.

RA: I have a list of offenses — you hit some of them.

Notice how Ken is hopping around from blog to blog just dropping little snide comments, but not answering a thing!!

I challenged him to answer two very pointed questions at Monday Morning Insights, but he has said nothing!

I’ve issued these same challenges here, on my own blog, and elsewhere for him or any of his followers to cite specific examples of him critiquing my theology/doctrine in that article. No one has said anything — not even the unassailable Rick F.

What is this telling us?

RAbanes

216   S.J. Walker    http://alionhasorared.com
July 29th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

Joe,

So maybe everyone should take a break and COOL OFF.

Yep.

217   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 6:16 pm

I have no doubt the letter is real… my doubt is that the event of deletion was the ISP’s idea… meaning they intended to or forced Ken to delete the whole blog…

I see Ken over-reacted and then decided to move to another ISP and Blog service.

And in the grand scheme it was perfect timing to beg for money as he was “being persecuted”.

The fabrication was that Ken did not need to be so extreme… one post deleted or changed and all would have been well, peace on earth good will toward men… well as far as the ODM world can be that way… which they proved to not be able to not only extend Grace, mercy love, or forgiveness toward Richard… instead they heaped condemnation and judgment in JEsus Name and then created a whole new separate “Christian”…

It is a strange and wonderful world when the ODM’s admit they are not part of the church…

Ephesians 4:2. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.
3. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.
4. There is one body and one Spirit– just as you were called to one hope when you were called–
5. one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6. one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7. But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.

I see that since they claim to not be the same as the rest of us, then they have created a new gospel… another gospel that depends on works and “right” belief” and not on the spilt blood of Christ or His resurrection.

iggy

218   merry    
July 29th, 2008 at 6:37 pm

Why does everyone keep ignoring the comments of the those who are suggesting such things as reconciliation, peace, Jesus and love?

Does anyone even acknowledge Jesus anymore? :confused:

What will non-Christian reading through this whole mess think?

Is this our testimony?

219   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pm

Richard,

You’re making it ever increasingly hard for me to still like you, Rick. And, TBH, you’ve kind of hurt my feelings here with your incessant and ludicrous defenses of Ken Silva

What is more important to Rick, that you like him, or that he stand up for what he believes?

You could view Rick’s defenses of Ken Silva as something that demonstrate that he is a man who has good character. He is not a “Ken fan” and yet is willing to say what he believes instead of what would hurt Ken. That what he says is “against” you is because he feels what you have done is violate Biblical principle.

If you call Rick’s defenses of Ken “excessive” and “ludicrous” you give me one more reason to take your claims about the nature of the e-mails from Ken’s fan base as biased and exaggerated.

220   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 6:48 pm

Richard,
Regarding your comment #148, I was suggesting that you focus on the numerous folks who’ve interacted with you on blogs, who don’t agree with you, yet fit none of the negative broad generalizations you’ve ascribed to Ken’s fans.

Chris L,
As for your comment to Richard, “Come back to the light” because he replied to me – you just shame yourself.

221   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 6:59 pm

New RUMORS page now up that has 4 responses covering the most frequently made false statements about this sad saga -

http://abanes.com/rumorcontrol.html

R. Abanes.

P.S. Hmmm, no answers from Ken yet. No surprise there.

P.S.S. Amy = so not worth the time.

222   richard abanes    http://abanes.com
July 29th, 2008 at 7:02 pm

BTW, Amy, this is how I responded to Chrs R. when he publicly threatened me with clear legal action from both my ISP and his attorneys!!!

LAWSUIT RESPONSE: ABANES TO CHRIS ROSEBROUGH

I can only wonder why Ken Silva, a “Pastor,” didn’t respond in a similar fashion, and why as a result of his response, his followers and other ODMs are continuing to spin out of control in some very ungodly directions. It’s so tragic to me.

RA

Last post, my sister, to you.

223   Ken Silva    http://www.apprising.org
July 29th, 2008 at 7:03 pm

RA: “P.S. Hmmm, no answers from Ken yet. No surprise there.”

You’ll find I’m not an easy one to bait. This is not the forum.

224   amy    
July 29th, 2008 at 7:33 pm

Richard,

P.S.S. Amy = so not worth the time.

What isn’t worth the time, Richard, taking into consideration that your brother (I hope) Rick might be trying to honor God in what he’s doing?

Comment #222 – A sincere, heartfelt apology to Chris R doesn’t match your behavior as exhibited elsewhere. Can you blame me that I can’t automatically take it as sincere? And why does it have to be “shown off” to everyone? And why do you remain so careless throwing out words as you did to Chris R – if your apology to him was sincere?

225   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

OK – I’m back in the Spirit! :cool:

BTW – anyone see the lion reunion clip on the internet with the “I will always love you” song in the background? I’m a sucker for heartwarming animal stories!

226   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 7:50 pm

You’ll find I’m not an easy one to bait. This is not the forum.

No Ken, you think you are not easy to bait, the truth is you seem to not be able to respond publicly or in private…

iggy

227   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 7:55 pm

Amy,

You have proven over and over again that whatever anyone states to you is not enough. They are always guilty with you… even when they may not be.

This is the affliction of the ODM world. The lack of forgiveness, mercy, grace, love… Love covers a multitude of sins…

I see you as I see the other ODM’s abusers of Jesus. You use Jesus to judge and condemn others while he did not come to condemn us, but to save us. I see this as that maybe many people like you have never fallen at the feet of Jesus broken by His grace mercy and kindness… that all you know is fear and never knowing if Jesus truly accepts you.

Jesus does… He proved that on the Cross…

I hope that is enough proof for you… now go and grow in Grace… knowing that Jesus was not meant to be used as a tool to harm others by judging and condemning them.

iggy

228   Keith    http://fivepts.blogspot.com
July 29th, 2008 at 8:16 pm

Chris:
I make one out of 200+ comments on this travesty…and I’m piling on? …and DISTRACTING from the conversation?

There has been WAY too much time spent on this topic. While some of you where crybabying about “reputations” and impact on your livelihood or whether someone is a liar or mean or making stuff up, etc. the past 24 to 48 hours, I spent last night visiting with a man whose 28-year-old son is in a vegetative state due to an auto accident eight years ago. Oh yeah, he also buried his 3-year-old grandson last month; the little boy died from a rare lung disease. He kept telling me that he knew “God has a plan…” Certainly put my life (and this blow-out-of-proportion-thread) in perspective.

229   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 8:26 pm

Very good comment, Keith.

230   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
July 29th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

Thank you, Igs and Kieth…

231   Chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
July 29th, 2008 at 9:40 pm

I make one out of 200+ comments on this travesty…and I’m piling on? …and DISTRACTING from the conversation?

Keith not in quantity but in quality.

Sorry to hear about your friend. My prayers are for him this evening.