I love the admonishment he gives to the torch-bearing townspeople at the beginning.

RIP George Carlin.

To offer blog space to eulogize a blasphemer and hide behind the “made in God’s image” strawman reveals the depth to which Spencer’s bitterness toward his view of fundamentalists travels.

Many times Mrs. Schlueter is on the right side of an issue (perhaps wrong verbiage) and this happens to be one. This isn’t about Mr. Carlin, this is about how little the Christian community cares about the lost. We would rather laugh with blasphemers than pray for them, and when they die we soothe our conscience by revelling in their fallen lives.

Calling Christianity…

Evan – Silverman is a blasphemer also and usually your view of spiritual matters is anti-Biblical as well. It is no laughing matter to see Christ blasphemed by lost people whose eternal destiny is etremely precarious.

People like Mrs. Schlueter will wind up in heaven because she trusted the finished work of Jesus the Christ, do you have that same confidence? Mr. Carlin rejected all religions. It is tragic.

Silverman is a comic genius, as was Carlin, in that they view comedy without reservations or artificial lines to cross, and go after all subgroups of humanity with equal vigor, including and especially their own.

This is why comedians are so often the greatest truth-tellers. They cut through all of the prejudices and teach us to laugh.

Tim – I agree, we must not spend time hashing over Carlin’s fallen life. But then again, we should not eulogize it either as if it is something to emulate.

His life was a tragedy.

^

Got it. The vast billions of humanity who die as non-Christians aren’t worth eulogizing.

What of all the people who died pre-Judaism/Christianity?

George Carlin’s life is an object lesson on what not to do. His humor camouflaged the tragedy which was his life. And for Spencer to suggest he told the truth better than preachers is breathtaking, but not unexpected.

There is a balance between soothing people’s conscience and being harsh toward sinners. But having a disregard toward redemptive truth is the harshest position of all.

All George had to work with was what Christians gave him and showed him.

All George had to work with was what Christians gave him and showed him.

That’s right.

Christians hide behind the verse that says people will hate them in Jesus’s name.

The truth is that people hate Christians for what they DO, not for what they believe.

There was a national poll several years ago, right after 9/11, that asked Americans about who they’d least like to have as neighbors. Predictably, radical Muslims were the #1.

Fundamentalist Christians were #2.

Colossians 1:
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. 17And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent. 19For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

The first Adam was made in God’s image and likeness.
The first Adam is dead in his sin.
God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Jesus the last (new) Adam is the express image of God.
Therefore only those who are “re-created” in Christ are the image and likeness of God.
The rest of humanity are men who don’t know that they died.

George Carlin was dead in his sin and never came to Christ.
You share the same bitterness and hatred of the fundies that Carlin held. This is why you defend him.
I suggest that you listen to Rick Freuh, look in the mirror, and don’t forget what you
look like when you walk away.
What hypocrisy. You have no leg to stand on here.

The first Adam was made in God’s image and likeness.
The first Adam is dead in his sin.

The first Adam is a myth. Mesoamericans were already trading with Egyptians by the time he supposedly came around.

You share the same bitterness and hatred of the fundies that Carlin held

Haha, because I used to BE one, until I saw the error of my ways.

It’s funny — I’m still using the same Bible I used when I was a teenager, back when I was clinging to fundamentalism, and looking at the notes I made in the margins then vs. now is revelatory. Back then, my notes seemed to center around an obsessive need to confirm all the dogma that had been shoved down my throat for years. Lots of exclamation points and underlining, like I was arguing with a boogeyman that didn’t exist.

Now the notes are more thoughtful. More question marks and suggestions than anything else.

Sometimes one has to come up for air to get a real perspective on things. Carlin, being raised Catholic, was able to do so.

Hate blinds people… and funny how GC knew that, but Chris P who supposedly had the Spirit of the Living God living in him, does not.

Which is why people hate fundamentalists, as a general rule.

Their entire lives scream hypocrisy.

Kevin,

“George Carlin talked about his grandparents having s-x in the most obscene manner? How real is that?” from the Slice hate piece.

So sex is a dirty word now or is that to allow those behind restrictive filters in? It’s funny because

Funny thing is that Ingrid knows about GC’s story about his grandparents… I wonder if she is so pure and separated from culture… which is all evil. Funny that relevant is wrong yet, Ingrid seems more relevant in her knowledge of GC than myself… an evil apostate emerging guy…

Really, it seems that Ingrid exposes herself for the type of person that secretly watches things she claims to hate with a gusto!

iggy

I do not mean to speak for you Evan, yet I know the sting of hate… I know the feeling of not being loved by “brothers in Christ” because i am a bit different… or not pulling the “company line”.

Exactly.

You either get it…or you don’t.

Jesus’s smackdown re: removing the redwood from your own dumb eye is much more meaningful when you understand being on the receiving end personally.

Neil,

In regards to your comment #31…

For years I chased the “become more like God>” idea until I realized I am to become more like Christ Jesus… who was fully human (yes and fully God) but it is in His humanity that I am becoming the “likeness” of God… I am not become like a god, but as God intended the image of God in my humanity.

That seems to be lost these days in many peoples minds. they seem to think we are becoming little gods like Jesus… and miss the point of the incarnation of Jesus becoming the last Adam so that we can be new Creations in that image.

iggy

I think it ties together in that Fundamentalists like Chris P think that only they and those who agree with them are actually in imago dei, and they assume that, due to that belief, they are somehow like Christ

But they’re not like Christ at all, The end.

I think it ties together in that Fundamentalists like Chris P think that only they and those who agree with them are actually in imago dei, and they assume that, due to that belief, they are somehow like Christ

But they’re not like Christ at all, The end. BtT

Well clearly they think that they are more like Christ… that’s the whole point. Would we not say the same thing, that what makes us different is to some degree what makes us more like Christ.

That’s also what makes me cringe when I see something like “But they’re not like Christ at all, The end.” I bet there are a lot of ways in which Chris P. et. al are like Christ. They just have some really really poor ways of extending this to others.

Neil

BtT, I understand.

Part of the denying unbelievers imago dei status could be the philosophy that goes hand-in-hand with seeing them as enemies… Whenever you get into a war, it’s always easier to kill them if you give them a name that renders them less like you – Rebel, Jap, Gook, Kraut, Hun… etc.

Neil

Hey really quick BTT I am just wondering if you consider yourself an orthdox christian, i.e. protestant(reformed in some manner not neccisarily calvinistic)??

Just wondering becasue some of your commetns just don’t jive with the bible.

So how would you describe your belief?

George Carlin, meet Jesus Christ

(article by Michael Mickey of some website called RAPTURE ALERT

http://rapturealert.com/2008/062308carlin.asp

tim, thanks for clearing that up.

what do you think of Michael Mickey’s article

I agree with the concept that ALL men including the unregenerate are created in the image of God, but I agree with Rick that of late it’s being used as a defense against slander et. al. is a bit of a stretch.

He means that is revelling in the misfortune of others. I believe we can use the death of someone like Carlin to delicately warn others without stomping on his grave. The article was opportunistic and I’m sure many are writing similar post that might have some truth but don’t address our sins as well.

A few months ago a church decided to pray for Brittney Spears and they were vilified. We are so hypocritical in the church. And the imonks post is also on the other side blind to Carlin’s redemptive situation. Silence would have been much better.

Oh yes, and so is anyone who would take joy in an unrepentant sinner going to his doom.

Ahh, the pride and the arrogance.

rick, I know what you mean and are talking about regarding the Spears thing.

I supported the church for praying for her.

the Hollywood Prayer Network

http://www.hollywoodprayernetwork.org

and:

http://www.myspace.com/hollywoodprayernetwork

is constantly vilified by so-called christians

I support the HPN and was upset at “Christians”

attacking fellow Christians

who were and still are praying for folks like Spears and Lohan and Hilton and Lily Allen among other famous folks

BTW, they were praying for them to know Jesus

what bothers me, is that christians will attack people who they dont like but yet wont pray for them

I BTW wish more people would stand up for the HPN

or at least speak out against hypocritical christians who attack the HPN for praying for folks

I felt instead of Ingrid S attacking Miley Cyrus, she should have suggested people pray for her.

——————————————-

Hollywood is in their prayers
Maverick Christian ministry calls for people to pray for celebrities instead of boycotting their movies.

http://www.ocregister.com/news/prayer-hollywood-people-1783501-network-says

What’s so funny to me is that one would not be able to see the silliness inherent in calling one’s God “imaginary” when one’s own God is indeed unprovable and comes from a book/tradition which, let’s remember, came onto the scene relatively recently, if one takes human history into account.

It’s all faith!

And there’s nothing wrong with that!

Haha, good catch.

Oh yes, and so is anyone who would take joy in an unrepentant sinner going to his doom. – PB

Who would take joy in anyone going to Hell?

Neil

I think that feeling a sense of justification when someone dies lost can be labeled as joy. That is why it is so spiritually duplicitous to battle sinners and make their morality some public catfight, because when and if they die your flesh will send you messages of contentment as if you have won some horrifying game.

I have KNOWN believers who revel in the death of a gay activist especially due to AIDs. We cannot ever expect to live and preach the most gracious offer of redemption ever imagined while we verball attack and expose the sins WHICH WE HAVE COMMITTED OURSELVES.

The stench of hypocrisy flows before God’s throne and when people like Dobson publicly attack Obama as distorting the Bible (no kidding) we as believers are DISTORTING THE GOSPEL. The gospel is good news and comes with no moral prerequisites. And snide remarks when someone like Carlin dies like “he believes now!” I label as joy. Self righteous and huburous joy that indicates a lck of understanding and gratitude for the grace which we all have received freely.

Carlin’s life was not something to be praised, but his destiny should be a cause for mourning not a “he got what he deserved” attitude. I am just grateful that I will not get what I deserve – ALL BECAUSE OF HIS MATCHLESS GRACE!!

The stench of hypocrisy flows before God’s throne and when people like Dobson publicly attack Obama as distorting the Bible

Haha, James Dobson really had a little whinypants tantrum about Obama, didn’t he?

So funny.

Really quick this may be schocking but I will say it.

I take joy is God’s judgement, because he is righteaus and holy and all he does is perfect! So I glorify God for his just and righteous judgement.

No sinner will be able to so this is not fair, this is unjust. They will accept there punishment in the light of His majesty.

One other reason I take joy in God’s judgment and justice is that it is most fully shown in the cross. Because God is just, perfect, holy I can rely on Him for my salvation through Christ. There is no double jeopardy in the court of God.

So I glory in all of God’s judgments because they are just and good.

How easy it is to joy in the destruction of the wicked after we have been saved by grace. Like being pulled from a fire and having joy that those that are left are being burned.

Jesus wept over Jerusalem, He didn’t say “I feel joy you will be destroyed!”.

John H,

Iggy, I see lots of hate on this site towards preceived fundamentalists. It’s almost palatable sometimes.

Then I pray you never truly experience real hatred. The stuff here, if hate is nothing compared to the hate I have received for preaching truth, but being “emerging”.

Yet, I have hung out with Hell’s Angels that showed more compassion than some fundies…

I have known druggies and drunks who know more about grace than many who claim to be “righteous” who come here.

Again, I have experience hate where someone wanted to come to my door with a shotgun and blow me away. I have faced demon possessed people who are consumed by hate. I have faced a lot of hate, but much of it pales in the light of most hate I receive from Fundy’s who claim to have the Spirit of the Living Christ in them… and hate their brothers and sisters in Christ.

iggy

BTT,

LOL. You can’t even remember what you wrote a couple of days ago regarding your views of Scripture.

Palpabale / palatable are we now resorting to correcting typos? Where’s the Soup Grammar Nazi when you need him?

sorry lots of typos in that, haven’t had my coffee yet.

Yes I agree with that Phil. God’ heart is grieived. But can not God show His glory in the just judgement of sinners. That is what I glory in that He is righteous. When people rejoiced that Hitler was dead was it wrong. Justice is not wrong and to rekoie in justice is not wrong. Can we not both be sorrowful and joyful and the same time??

I would say God takes joy in disciplining us becuase he know what the results will be.

“Certainly there are passages that talk about rejoicing in God’s judgement, but in those I think it makes sense to think of judgement in terms of God’s deliverance.”

That was my primary point. Another reason I take joy in God’s judgment and justice is that it is most fully shown in the cross. Because God is just, perfect, holy I can rely on Him for my salvation through Christ.

Kylein,

We can delight that God’s judgment is always right. But I don’t think that means in any way that God is happy that people end up on the wrong end of his judgment sometimes. I don’t delight in God’s discipline either and I don’t think he does. His discipline means that we are not yet perfect; that I am not yet perfect. It means there are parts of me that are disagreeable and needing fixed. To delight in pain is rather strange. I’d rather be perfect than to endure discipline. Your point is understood, but strange. How can God take delight in the pain of his beloved children? That is a strange, John Piperish point of view.

jerry

Your point is understood, but strange. How can God take delight in the pain of his beloved children? That is a strange, John Piperish point of view.

I think I will start using “Piperish” as an adjective in my daily speech – “quit being so Piperish…”

I hear you, though. I’ve had the privilege if hearing John Piper speak a few times, and he usually ends up saying something that I disagree with so much, that it makes taking the rest of his message seriously very hard.

Kyle,
Well, sure we our told to take joy when we our disciplined personally, but I think we were talking about taking joy in the judgement of another’s sins. Those are two separate things.

I just think some of the stuff I’ve seen written about Carlin from Christians takes the tenor of “well now he’ll get what’s due him”. I think that’s what we are referring to. We shouldn’t take joy at the expense of others.

One quick question,

Why is it wrong to say he is getting what he earned or what is due him?????

I think it cause both great sadness that a man is now facing God naked with his own sins laid before him, but also joyous as God’s judgements and perfect. Can we not delight in the justice of God?? Or can we only delight in the love of God?

Considering what you said about the Creation account last week, your position is not surprising.

Oh, what did I possibly say?

Did I say I believed in the One Week Dinosaur Party?

I doubt it.

Somehow I suspect the commenters missed something or think they’re scoring a point and they’re doing the adult daycare “haw haw high fives” thing…

So we should not judge a person by there fruit or take them at there word. We belive that a christian is a christian by there confession and life.

Although Paul does say not to judge thoughs outside the church but only those in the church.

So bottom line I just say I love God and glory in all of His characteristics love, mercy, justice, wrath, jealousy. I love them all becasue He is perfect and holy.

So I agree that we should not judge him, the Lord will do that. Sin in a wicked man is like poison in a snake it is where it belongs. I am more worried about the church and her holiness.

Intrestign thoughts. I would still say we can feel both or several emitions regarding a sinner reciveing justice from God. Much like God does.

–Agnostic Christ-follower.–

No such thing. Such a creature would be a contradiction in itself.

Unless you’re one of those rare creatures capable of holding more than one thought in your head at a time…

I would say you are either following or not. How can one be unsure if they are following Christ???? Explain what you mean a little bit more about Agnostic Christ-follower?? Very intresting stuff i would love to hear?

“Agnostic Christ follower”

Kyle, in short, this “belief” allows someone to conveniently embrace what they like about God, and discard the rest. It’s a brilliant religion that makes little demands on its adherents.

One of the amazing characteristics of a Pharisee (kind of on the other end of the spectrum of self-righteousness) was their ability to outwardly receive God while inwardly rejecting Him.

BTT

What do you think the central message of the bible is??

Well, I don’t necessarily look at the Bible as one completed work…

I believe Jesus’s central message is to love others, and that if one’s action falls within those parameters, one is following Jesus.

Paul confirms that in Romans something or other, that the totality of the law is “love thy neighbor.”

Man, does every thread have to turn into an interrogation of Evan?

Haha.

Yes.

Kyle, in short, this “belief” allows someone to conveniently embrace what they like about God, and discard the rest. It’s a brilliant religion that makes little demands on its adherents.

Agreed, Paul, and agreed as well on it being the equal and opposite (and just as faulty) response to Phariseeism. It’s somewhere in the spectrum between secular humanism and restrained hedonism.

Heh.

If so, Heaven’s going to be a pretty boring place, what with all the artists consigned to hell.

Phil: Man, does every thread have to turn into an interrogation of Evan?

Phil, Take it up with Evan. He comments a lot and given his “unique” take on Chrisitianity many of his comments require a more orthodox response lest silence = agreement I guess.

Sorry to be talking over you Evan.

I hate Thomas Kincade. Does that earn me any brownie points?

No – sometimes art is just trite or bad, no matter the heart of the artist…

Phil, Take it up with Evan. He comments a lot and given his “unique” take on Chrisitianity many of his comments require a more orthodox response lest silence = agreement I guess.

Trust me… We all know that most here don’t agree with him. He’s probably gotten the message, too.

I understand the impulse to ask the questions. It just seems that they always end up in the same place.

I hate Thomas Kincade. Does that earn me any brownie points?

Actually, it does with me. He’s godawful.

They used to be when christianty acutal effected peoples lives totally. Most of the best artist in and genere wher christian, specifically reformed christians. Not so much anymore, not sure why that happened, but christian agian need to embrace the beaut and majesty of all the arts.

Bach, Handle, Remberant, Buynan ect…I now it has dimished and I see this as a result of christianty being waterdowned. No longer does it effect every ascpect of our lives. It has now become something in our own personal time that we do, it is no longer what we are. And there where christian’s who hated and taught that the arts where evil. But there is some revivial among the christian arts. I thinking of Max McClean and his little assocation that he has started. The reason it flurshed some much right after the reformation is becuase doctrine matters and effectives lives dramatically. I love how Bach signed everything first JJ and then at the end SDG.

Except that Bach and Handel were foundational, but “classical” music (to use a broad incorrect term) flourished far beyond what they ever did in the years after them, with Beethoven, Schumann, Liszt, Chopin, etc.

It has nothing to do with religion whatsoever.

I feel slightly embarrassed i’ve never even heard of him..

:-[

Nowwwww Bill Hicks, a genius..

“a funny man were Christians, and we don’t like what you said”

“then forgive me”

Oh, Andy, George Carlin was WONDERFUL.

Here’s a link to a bunch of his videos:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=%22george+carlin%22+%28DiavoloDiAno%29&search_sort=video_date_uploaded

I would probably like you better now as an agnostic Christian

Seriously.

The 5-point Calvinist thing was a late high school/early college phase. Before that it was more mainline protestant with some dabbling in Southern Baptist land.

Evan what do you think?

I think that if it’s causing heaven to weep so much, then God has truly lost control of his Creation.

Evan, that does not surprise me at all. Yet I am sad that is your take. Thanks.

Jerry

They used to be when christianty acutal effected peoples lives totally.

ahhh the good ‘ol days when everything was … anyway, I’d say Christianity is every bit as effective today as it ever was, same as it ever was, same as it ever was

And, on a brighter note: I don’t know that a ‘god’ who didn’t create the world ever had control. That’s a different subject, of course.

AND these are the issues where I happily say “I dunno.”

Too many smile faces are a sign of compromise.

I reject the victim mentality as well. If anything, her anger would be toward the church where she had a bad experience and not the world.

This morality tiabribe misrepresents the gospel which was offered to Mr. Carlin. Jesus never hated him, He loved Him in spite of his sin. I completely reject it when believers squawk about sinners ruining their civil ambiance, Jesus the most holy man who ever lived came and actually rubbed shoulders with sinners.

Do you believe Jesus ever heard cursing? Did He ever see drunkenness? Blasphemy? Of course, and yet He dies for them anyway. He didn’t get a petition together, He didn’t ask Rome to stop these sinners, He didn’t get mad at common sinners, and He never presented Himself as some victim. He died – yes, that glorious mystery – He died for all those rotten sinners including George Carlin and others like him.

Let us be honest about it, many believers hate sinners. They wish they would live somewhere else but not in their neighborhoods and encroach upon the utopia they envision.

This attitude toward sinners distorts the gospel and in fact completely miss what the cross is all about. And why would God love sinners such as you and me? Against the holiness of God we all are just as repulsive as any sinner we could name. Let us ask God to soften our hearts, full of loving redemption, and release the moral hubris that so contradicts the grace we have been given. I hope the Rosie O’Donnels and the Bill Marers and John Stewarts of this world see the gospel in us and not some squealing about their sin and our discomfort. (see “The Cross” for reference)

Let us be honest about it, many believers hate sinners. They wish they would live somewhere else but not in their neighborhoods and encroach upon the utopia they envision.

Theory, and it’s not just mine:

Some Christians, especially of the Fundamentalist variety, spend so much time fighting their so-called “culture war” of their own contrival because they see in [insert "other" group here] themselves, and have so much fear of their own inner beings that they feel they must fight in the public square in order to eradicate that which they can’t stand within themselves.

For example, there seems to be a correlation between the fact that much of the church is obsessed these days with porn addictions, etc., and the so-called “pro-family” groups thus spend inordinate amounts of time fighting against Marriott for offering pay-per-view porn and Janet Jackson’s boob…

It’s like some are begging to be protected from themselves.

Rick,

Without bothering to quote what you said, thank you. You said what I was trying to say, and you said it much better than I could have. The second post by the author of slice was self-serving and, frankly, embarassing. It served only as an attempt to justify her own hatred of anything that she has not washed in the baptistery. I was trying to say that in not so many words, but I didn’t want to come off as ‘mean’ or ‘ungracious’ or ‘uncompassionate’ towards someone’s suffering.

I couldn’t write what you wrote because after I read that post I was angry. I am glad you had words for the moment. I might still be angry, except that I have chosen to let it go.

Tim, bothering to quote you: “Reducing a person to a cautionary tale, or an enemy in the culture war (where is that in the scripture?) misses the point completely.”

Yes, it does. I often think of the man possessed by a legion of demons. The only solution people had for him was to bind him hand and foot, to confine him to the abode of the dead (i.e., ‘the tombs’). No one else had anything for him. Then Jesus came along…unafraid, unembarassed by his yelling and screaming and cursing, unashamed to go into a place where he would no doubt become ritually unclean. Jesus went to him. (Good grief, even Steve Camp, in the comments at imonk had kind words about Carlin.)

When the story is done, the Kingdom advanced, the man was in his right mind, sitting at Jesus’ feet. I love that story because it demonstrates, in part, just how difficult it is for people’s bonds to be broken and the lengths that Jesus will go to in order to rescue someone. My point is not that Carlin was a saint, but that ‘we’ have no idea what he was thinking in the last years of his life, the last minutes of his life, the last seconds of his life. Outward appearances suggest one thing, but God judges the heart. That is something we cannot do.

And I refuse to hold him up as an example of everything that a Christian needs to beware of. And I refuse to hold him up as an example of everything ’sinners’ need to be warned of. And I refuse to hold him up as the cause of everything that is wrong with America. And I refuse to hold him up as everything parents need to protect their children from. And I refuse to hold him up as someone who is in the business of propagating a ‘let’s send all children to hell by teaching them bad things’ agenda.

Certain priests of a certain mainstream worldwide religion are doing that well enough.

In other words, I will not use this story of George Carlin’s death to advance the Kingdom of God unless it has to do with the doctrine of God’s grace. That is not why George Carlin lived, and it is certainly not why he died.

Thanks Rick and Tim for two very well thought out replies.

jerry

I went back and re-read Ingrid’s article on Slice. One simple thing stands out. Never mind all her usual over the top rant and rhetoric.

The fact tht when she writes of “sex”, she feels the need to spell it “s-x”, as if the mere act of stringing those three harmless letters together was in some way dirty. That alone speaks volumes about what a genuine nutjob that woman is. Good Lord, what baggage does she carry around in that strange head of hers. And no, I don’t feel like being godly or compassionate or anything else towards her.

And I’m not even defending Carlin. I used to be a huge fan, but he hasn’t been even remotely funny in years. The clean or dirty aspect of his act doesn’t matter to me. Funny is funny, whether it’s clean or not. The same goes for unfunny.

And how do we know that Carlin, upon arrival in heaven didn’t get a high five from God, and a smile of knowing recognition regarding the wacky human condition that Carlin was so capable of hitting with lazer-like accuracy.

Where does it say God can’t have a sense of humor. As some other comic observed…He must…why else did he create us with all those funny parts that droop and dangle as the years go on.

Upper left corner of this page, fifth bullet down.

He uses bad words.

I don’t.

I am better than him…

Sad!

Deb – I think she was referring to ungodly “sox” that have curse words embroidered into them.

Now we even have Calvinist “clubs”. This one is named “Reformata” which removes the reformed group from the other dcotrinally challenged believers. I love the names that give off such a pleasant and humble aroma. Let’s see if I can start a club of goofy free willers.

Free Willys
Arminian Armada
Combating Calvinism
Choice Champions

There is one conspicuous absence from my titles and the Reformata moniker – the name of Jesus. Oh well, will fit Him in later!

–Of the people who go through so-called “ex-gay” programs, the great majority come out more damaged than before,–

Any support for this, because I really don’t take your word for it.

–but the tiny percentage who actually ultimately try to pursue a straight life (even though they’ve been forced to admit that no one actually changes their sexual orientation) tend to find themselves as radicalized Fundamentalists on the payrolls of the same so-called “ex-gay” businesses, fighting the hardest against rights for gay people.–

And the people who fight hardest against alcohol are ex-alcoholics, and those who speak out loudest against drugs are ex-drug users. Your scenario is hardly news.

–As this relates to Ingrid, doesn’t she have one of those testimonies that starts on one extreme side of the pendulum and goes to the other?

It’s very typical, from a psychological perspective.–

Doesn’t mean she’s wrong, just that you’re hunting for some fictitious (as in, you have no idea of the real) reason or excuse to dismiss her.

Sorry, but you’re either an agnostic or a believer. Stop waffling and pick one.

I can see what you’re getting at, but I really don’t see how it affects you whether or not he “picks one”. I don’t understand the anger.

Rick…

be careful with those club names.
Your Free Willy’s could have hidden connotations that you were just trying to insert here to get a laugh and be worldly. We know your “pastor’s” heart.

As I said, such a creature would a contradiction in itself. One cannot both not believe in God (or to use the cop-out version, not know if there is a God) and still be a follower of God. Sorry, but you’re either an agnostic or a believer. Stop waffling and pick one.

You obviously don’t really know the definition of “agnostic.”

I am not surprised at this.

“because it will really make you look silly.”

A low threshold.

At one time, Ingrid posted that she would alter “sex” to “s-x” to make sure it got through all of the naughty filters. This doesn’t mean she has a problem with the word herself. Just sayin’.

Yes. Because we wouldn’t want the blog fans with their Mayberry filtering software missing out on their “heresy-remnant” psycho-emotional porn.

“As I said, your “agnostic christ-follower” is a contradiction in and of itself.”

True. Why halt you between two opinions? Choose you this day who you will serve.

…relishing someone dying without Christ is unfathomable, especially when we are held completely by grace.

.

What I also find amazing is the outrage that a non-Chirstian would behave as such…

Neil

“Be assured George Carlin believes in hell now.”

“All these and more are typical antichristic American loudmouths and spin doctors.”

“George Carlin is in hell. Deal with it. You will soon join him there. America is doomed.”

- Truth and word creationism by the great Uncle Fred

Will Farel
Burning for the Truth