UPDATE *Breaking News* Kirk Cameron denies Jesus…***
While eating my Cheerios this morning and watching Good Morning America I caught an interview with Kirk Cameron from Growing Pains fame and subsequently Way of the Master (WoTM). Kirk was talking about his new book “Still Growing” (an excerpt can be found here)
With this opportunity to share the Gospel with millions of people worldwide; Kurt chose to spend a majority of his time talking about his exploits as a teen heart-throb. When asked what changed his life he didn’t shout “JESUS” or recite John 3:16. He also left out the verse that says Jesus is the way, truth and the life. Nor did he take the interviewer down the Romans road. He simply said “I realized that there has to be more to life than this…I started asking questions…I let the Gospel influence my daily decisions”.
His publicist also just announced that Kirk was invited to the “Seeds of Compassion ‘09″ event.
***satire
*Update*
May 27th, 2008 at 7:56 am
“His publicist also just announced that Kirk was invited to the “Seeds of Compassion ‘09? event. ”
***funny alert***
May 27th, 2008 at 8:13 am
I knew it was not a real conversion…
Oh wait, I just noticed it says satire…
Doh!
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Actually I read the whole interview/whatever it was that was four pages long… and not one mention of Jesus anywhere!
No where is Ingrid… she needs to know about this lost opportunity!
***satire***
( or is it?)
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 8:45 am
I knew it! He is leading us all into the New Age one world religion brand of the AntiChrist’s New Spirituality!
Let’s analyze what he said…
_________
CAMERON: “I realized that there has to be more to life than this…
RA: HE realized it? Hmmm, how SELF-ish. I thought the Holy Spirit made us realize truth.
Scripture tells us we are dead, sinful, wretched worms before God, incapable of realizing anything without the Lord of Hosts revealing it to us. So why didn’t Cameron say: “God showed me by the power of his Holy Spirit that there was more to life”?
Obviously, Cameron is either ashamed to mention God, or his so-called realization is merely of the self and carnal…..and notice, BTW, that he DIDN’T say that what he realized was that there was a one true God and he was a sinner in need of forgiveness! He just said “more to life” - that opens the door to any religious belief. Clearly, Kirk Cameron is now pushing pluralism!!!!
_________
CAMERON: I started asking questions…
RA: Again, we see how ashamed he is of the Christian faith. Why didn’t he say, I started praying? And who was he asking his questions of: Buddha? Allah? His inner higher New Age self? Clearly, Cameron is simply trying to direct others to ask questions, rather than directing them to the King of kings and Lord of lords!!! Once more, we see pluralism and ecumenism rearing up to take hold of the world and deceive the nations!
________
CAMERON: I let the Gospel influence my daily decisions
RA: That’s it? Just “influence” his life? New Ager Eckhart Tolle and Oprah Winfrey allow that!
No, no, no! For the TRUE Christian, the Bible is God’s inerrant, Holy Spirit inspired, authority of our life and beliefs. It’s far more than JUST some influence. He is OBVIOUSLY putting the Bible on equal ground with the Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Kabbalah, Upanishads, and other so-called “holy” writings. HERETIC!!!!!!!!!
*****satire*******
Gee, this fun. Can we play some more?
R. Abanes
May 27th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Pssstt..
Richard….
I am always looking for a new writer on my blog…
Ahem…
Go back to whatever you were doing.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 8:59 am
“more to life” ?
Where is the deep conviction of sin that has separated him from a Holy God? Where are the Ten Commandments that are necessary for a true conversion?
“I let the gospel influence my daily decisions”
Much of the reformed parlance is a direct misrepresentation about what they say they believe. I heard MacArthur this very morning say
You don’t lead anyone to Christ. And it is so wonderful that all his four children were of the elect. How convenient. I am amazed at the disproprtion of elect children are born to believers while the Iranian children can all go to hell. God is so wonderfully organized.
Alert - some satire meant to show the absurdity of some men’s theology.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:00 am
You guys are hypocrites
****Satire****
Wow, this asterik thing really works cool!
I can slander people and just add an asterik and it makes it okay!!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Do you even know the definition of slander? Who’s being slandered here?
All Chris is saying is that the ODM crowd has one set of standards for people they like and another set for the people they deem heretical.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:09 am
So, PB - what exactly is it you are satirizing, though?
An example of what satire is *NOT*:
What satire IS:
The problem with the first one (and your sophomoric outburst) is that you have to say something that you don’t believe or that people familiar with you wouldn’t be surprised/shocked/outraged you would say…
May 27th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Without a connection to something else, satire becomes tangentially confusing. In basic language -
You will miss the point.
***not satire***
May 27th, 2008 at 9:10 am
**DING DING DING***
We have a winner!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Why is PB pretending like he needs asterisks to slander someone? He’s never needed them in the past.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:16 am
slander: “Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person’s reputation or standing in the community. . . . If the statement is made via broadcast media — for example, over the radio or on TV — it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.”
satire: “In satire, human or individual vices, follies, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, or other methods, ideally with the intent to bring about improvement.” (WIKI)
_________
EXAMPLES OF SLANDER -
- “Richard’s intent is more monetary than spiritual.”
- Abanes “doesn’t really believe the Bible at all.”
- Abanes is “part of the post-modern group that believe if you ‘dialogue’ with people in such false satanic based religions [as Mormonism] long enough that you can somehow bridge your differences and that the end result will be a new truth based on the ‘best’ of both religions, a ‘New Understanding.’”
_________
EXAMPLES OF SATIRE:
- See OP and following comments
May 27th, 2008 at 9:17 am
The use of asterisks indicate a punctuational communication of the “I’m rubber you’re glue” principle!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Whatever.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:18 am
PB,
You are funny!
*** satire***
or is it?
Can you tell these guys to repent?
***more satire***
or is it!?!
; )
iggy
The real question is why are you so upset when you are or others are held to your own standards? Hmmm isn’t a hypocrite one that sets one standard for others then does not do them themselves?
***not satire, but an earnest question wanting a honest answer***
May 27th, 2008 at 9:20 am
So… postmodern!
LOL!
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Whatever? Definitely PM.
His truth is apparently his truth and my truth is my truth! There is no objective definition of slander.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:27 am
There is no objective definition of slander or satire on this blogline. It is all based on whose team you are on.
If yo are an ODM, it is all slander
If you are an ADM, it is all satire.
I hold the standard at what God says, Iggy. From his word. Not the gobbelty goop (actual professional term) that comes out of most churches today.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Slander - “You are a moron”
Libel - “You are a moron”
Invective - “You are a moron”
Good natured humor - “You are a moron”
Hate speech - “You are a moron”
Parental guidance - “You are a moron”
Political banter - “You are a moron”
Sibling rivalry - “You are a moron”
Satire - ***You are a moron***
Please update your data banks!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Rick, PERFECT!
Now that is funny!
May 27th, 2008 at 9:33 am
Satire or not, the article and comments following essentially use examples of how God worked in Kirk’s life as elements for you to make a “joke.” Is that treating God respectfully?
If you believe that ODM’s are faultily criticizing others, thus making a parody of how God has worked in the criticized ones’ lives, thus not treating God Himself with respect . . . then maybe you should be careful that you aren’t doing the same thing - treating God Himself with disrespect - in a different way.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:33 am
PB,
Who exactly do you think is being slandered here?
May 27th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Seriously, folks.
Kirk Cameron is an example of a man who has been saved by Grace, and has had his life turned upside down because he chooses to follow Jesus.
His professional career has been sidetracked, he does not get the calls he used to because people in Hollywood know of his faith. It was sorta like being a communist in the 50’s~ how times have changed.
Kirks message, and God’s message is simple: Man, left to his own devices has no hope. We are wretched sinners. We have all broken God’s commandments.
We have all lied, thus we are all liars.
We have all lusted, and committed adultery in thought, if not in deed.
We have all made idols, some still do it today, creating a god in their own image, of their own opinion, a god that they are comfortable with that is not the God of the Bible.
We have not always loved God with all of heart, soul, strength, and mind. Certainly e have not loved our neighbors as ourselves.
We have transgressed the law. And thus, we are all in big trouble. All liars will have therir place in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8) No adulterer will enter God’s kingdom (1 Corinthians 6:9)
Without repentance, you also will perish (Luke 13:3,5) Because God has appointed a day that he will judge (Acts 17:31) And we all will face judgement (Hebrews 9:27) So, what will YOU say on the day of judgement?
“I fed the poor’
‘I blogged against evil ODM’s’
‘I defended fellow ‘believers’ against attacks’
‘I wrote satire’
‘I did social justice’
‘I built relationships with people so I could tell them about Jesus’
Whatever you say, if even one transgression of the law has occured, even one small lie, you will be judged.
That is why Jesus came. Jesus came and he paid the penalty for your sin. You can be justified (declared not-guilty) if you will repent, by confessing (admitting, agreeing with God that you have sinned) repenting (turning from that sin, utterly forsaking it) and placing all your trust in Christ.
That is what Kirk Cameron stands for. That is his message, straight from God.
And that is what all Christians should stand for. And proclaim.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Phil,
Kirk Cameron is being slandered. I agree with Amy; God is also being slandered.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:52 am
PB,
Again, why do you whine so much when someone from your favorite list is held to your own standard and fails? It seems so surreal that you just go on and on how others are “slandering” someone when you give no grace to so many!
In fact you are a parody of yourself…
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 9:54 am
The article obviously references SOLs criticism of Ravi Zacharius offering a prayer without Jesus name and the Seeds of Compassion conference. I do not consider them analogously equal since Ravi was garunteed a chance to preach Christ later and the pastors at the SoC conference were not.
But Ravi was attacked with an apostate tag on the post. Chris was making the point why wasn’t Kirk exposed as well. Charles Wesley’s hymn “OGod our Hekp in Ages Past” does not mention Jesus or even alludes to the gospel. See? It lifts up the Creator rather than the Redeemer, as does many of the Psalms.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:54 am
I am indeed a fool for Christ Iggy.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Now THAT is funny.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:55 am
PB,
we all are…
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Patorboy,
You’re not addressing anything we’re talking about. You’re preaching. No one here has actually said ANYTHING disparaging against Cameron’s ACTUAL beliefs or faith. You don’t get that?
What we were doing - and let me explain it again - was dissecting Cameron’s words in the same the way the ODMs dissect the words of their targets. By doing so, it was our hope to show the unfair and absurd nature of such dissection of words!
See?
______
AMY: the article and comments following essentially use examples of how God worked in Kirk’s life as elements for you to make a “joke.” Is that treating God respectfully?
RA: Please see above. NO ONE is making fun of ANYTHING in Cameron’s life. That’s the POINT!!!!! Everything Cameron said was perfectly acceptable! But what we were doing was taking his words, and analyzing them per the methods used by ODMs!! Again, the hope was to show how wrong it is to do what they do. THAT is called satire:
“In satire, human or individual vices, follies, abuses, or shortcomings are held up to censure by means of ridicule, derision, burlesque, irony, or other methods, ideally with the intent to bring about improvement.” (WIKI)
R. Abanes
May 27th, 2008 at 9:56 am
P: Kirk Cameron is being slandered. I agree with Amy; God is also being slandered.
RA: WHAT? I can’t believe I have to actually spell this out - NO ONE BELIEVES ANYTHING WE SAID ABOUT CAMERON!!!!! The issue is how ODMs analyze the words of their targets.
RA
May 27th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Seriously,
So is Ravi Zacharius.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Who is slandering Cameron? No one that I see. I know a few of us have issues with his particular style of evangelism, but none of us has said anything about his character or doubted the veracity of his testimony.
If you don’t understand the satirical nature of this piece, then I really don’t know what else to say. The piece really doesn’t have anything to do with Cameron himself. Chris is just pointing out that if say someone like Doug Pagitt had been on GMA and said the same thing, certain people would be all over him for not saying the name of Jesus.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Richard,
I don’t know, he left out the Name of Jesus… and did not end the piece in “Jesus Name”…
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Haha, NO.
He doesn’t get the calls because he’s a crappy actor whose “career” beyond being a child star would have faded into obscurity just like his sister D. J. Tanner.
He knows that the Christian media sets much lower standards.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:58 am
I mean his autobiography just seemed to be so much about himself… again Jesus seemed left out.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:00 am
Rick,
At least when Ingrid or Ken write, they are doing it with a heart of seriousness and concern and a genuine desire to tell the truth. As humans they may not always do it perfectly, but I think their motives are pure.
When people write OP’s here, when they are wrong or cross the line, or want to say something but not really, they just call it humor and satire. Its like Iggy’s alter-ego Itodyaso. Its like he has a hatred for Ken and Ingrid, but he can’t just admit it, so he makes a ’satirical’ site which is a parody or a characiture of what he sees to be an ODM and in doing so mischaracterizes what they are really saying, thus telling lies.
I understand satire and sarcasm. I understand the use of the language to make a point. But it is disengenuous to say something that you want to say in an indirect way and call it satire. The author does not like Kirk Cameron, and what he stands for (biblical evangelism) so why not just say it?
I think they just would get less blog hits.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:01 am
If the OP actually believed that Kirk was denying Jesus, it would be slander. He even went out of his way to make the satire OBVIOUS.
In the same way, saying that Rob Bell and Doug Pagitt denied Jesus in the Seeds of Compassion event would be slander if someone actually wrote that as being truth…
The fact that you REFUSE to see the difference speaks to your discredited methodology and reveals the hatred of Christ in your double-standard.
I see no “joke” in it - satire is different than a joke.
I have a great deal of respect for Mr. Cameron (and also found his comments in defense of Ms. Cyrus on O’Reilly a few weeks ago very helpful to the conversation). I don’t agree with some of his methodologies (with WoTM), but that doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s a respectable brother in Christ.
What I find truly astonishing in all of this is the *clearly revealed* double-standard of ODM’s when it comes to applying the same measuring stick to “their team” as to those they criticize.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:02 am
So, again, the ends justify the means - talk about a backwards gospel, “pastor”-boy!
So, it’s OK to lie and slander if your heart is one of “seriousness and concern”. Wow… Situational ethics 101
May 27th, 2008 at 10:05 am
I don’t know about Chris, but even though I’ve been critical of things from Kirk and WoTM in the past, I don’t dislike him or that he stands for Christ. Disagreeing over methods isn’t the same as disagreeing over brotherhood.
The only reason Chris selected Kirk Cameron is because a) he’s been clearly “vetted” by ODM’s as OK; and b) his history in the public eye is similar to many who are condemned by the ODM’s.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Again, PB, you attribute motives to me that are not there… honestly that is slanderous of you to keep stating I ahve hatred toward Ken or Ingrid.
Ken stated that I am his nemesis… I never have and never will state that Ken is my enemy. As far as Ingrid she has attacked me and yet I cry out to all to pray for both these people.
Please do not slander me with your assertions of what you think my motives are.
I will add this. If I.Todyaso offends you, it must be because he holds your standard up better than Ken, Ingrid and yourself… and that must feel condemning to you. It is a mirror and you see what you see… others laugh… some get angry.
Most write to me and thank me for pointing out how stupid it all is. Which it is when we all stand before Jesus. So before you look into my heart, check your own.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:07 am
I never said it was okay to slander, Chris. I said that it is not their intent. I said that they approach their writings as serious rather than satire. You would do well to do the same.
Your words turn on yourself, Chris L- You are so clearly against Ken and Ingrid ( and me) that you cannot see when ‘ODM’s’ are being slandered.
You guys are just hit hungry, thats why you make such outrageous headlines.
I guess I am obtuse. It sounded serious to me until I saw the term ’satire’.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:07 am
I think chris (author) likes Cameron. The entire post was about some ODMs over the top posts about anyone. Aside from the posts about people like Miley Cyrus etc, to absolutely take Ravi Z. apart and almost calling him an apostate because he was finessing the system in order to get a chance to preach Christ is unconscionable.
That was the point of this post, not slander ing KC but pointing to the selective hypocrisy of others. Of course Kirk was attempting to sell his book and I’m sure the gospel is in it. See, finessing the system.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:09 am
that would be a major clue to not get so angry… btw I am praying that you get over your angry spirit… I was delivered from it so I know what God can do.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:10 am
That’s an example of unintentional satire.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Iggy,
I think I will wait until I am in Billings to talk to you ever again. You frustrate me to no end, not because of a heart of self examination (which I do daily) but because it seems like to me all you want to do is to destroy the body of Christ with your heartless and ugly attacks. Thats what I see, right or wrong.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Let God be true and every blog a liar!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:13 am
PB: I never said it was okay to slander, Chris. I said that it is not their intent.
RA: It IS their intent after they have been corrected and told that what they are saying is false - then continue to state what is false. That is intentional slander. It is also intentional slander to make accusations against a person’s character/integrity with NO proof whatsoever. That is intentional slander. God hates it.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:13 am
And this is coming from someone who actively defends people like Ken and Ingrid. Wow…all I can say is wow…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:15 am
So if I do not intend to sin, but I do anyway, that’s A-OK because “my heart is in the right place”?
Most of the time, our approach is the same. Last Friday, I chose heavy satire as a vehicle (for probably the first time in a year) not “to be funny” or to be any less serious or concerned. Rather, I chose it because the opportunity to effectively demonstrate the sanctimonious hypocrisy involved with a significant portion of ODM-ery was perfect in Ingrid’s ‘error’. It was not ‘humor’ for laughs, but rather to demonstrate a point with a hope for change.
In the same way, Chris saw a similar example with KC’s recent interview. Either you really don’t get the nuance here, or you are being purposely obtuse. It’s your choice…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:16 am
Sorry, did not mean to make you angry…
I am not sure i want to meet you… you seem to not be the type of person I would hang with… I mean I had one impression of you on the “video” you seemed to be a different person than here… but now, it seems you are just mean angry and hateful.
My prayers are with you. I am praying about this meeting… you can still email me with the details, but seriously I am a bit afraid that you are out of control. I already have one crazy in town who spreads lies about how I got him fired from his job… after he lied about how I was going to sue the college he worked at. I don’t need to go invite people that obviously hate me as you do to come and tell me how much they hate me. i am not into abusive people.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:16 am
The last comment was for PB.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:16 am
“I never said it was okay to slander”
OK, I’m declaring “Slander Day”! (Today I am 56 years old) In celebration of my birthday, anyone can slander anyone else. To begin, let me say that Richard Abanes is a hopeless drunk.
There…I’ve primed the pump!!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Happy Birthday, Rick! Today is my youngest’s birthday, as well…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Rick Frueh steals freshly baked pies from old ladies!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:19 am
RICK: To begin, let me say that Richard Abanes is a hopeless drunk.
RA: Let’s get this right - a hopeless, GAY, drunk who believes Mormonism is biblical. (You really need to get your slander perfected).
RA
May 27th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Iggy is the real Unabomber, they have the wrong guy. Look out, Montana!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:21 am
Stop the terror… is really straight!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Rick…
Shhhh don’t tell them that! That is true!
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Ken and Ingrid discern, right or wrong, according to what they read and what they know from the scripture. Most of it is right-on, though I disagree with some of it.
That does not give me the right to slur their names. I can question their intent, but I cannot backstab them.
Thats what this site should be called: Backstabbers.info
RA, Its the same with me and Rick Warren.
I believe Rick Warren started with the best of intentions. I believe he loved God and wanted to reach people with God’s love. I disagree with a lot of what he has done over the years (PDC, PDL) but I believe he did not so any of it out of a heart desiring to disrespect God or hurt people. I simply think that along the way he has become more people/program focussed.
That does not give me the right to slur his name. But I can call into question his methods .
Question Ken and Ingrid’s research. Prove them wrong from the Bible, or show written or recorded proof of your assertions. But don’t slur their name, or make fun of their church, or call them something they are not. It is not Christ-like.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Iggy hasn’t paid his taxes in 10 years.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:23 am
PastorBoy and MacLaren are co-authoring a new book.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Richard…
Again… that is not slander… where are you guys getting this info… are you prophets?
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Chris Lyons was never baptized.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I just can’t find Caesar… Jesus said render unto Caesar and i take Jesus literal.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Iggy,
I am not a violent or hate filled person. Unless you want to have a thumb war.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:26 am
PB,
Show me where have ever made fun of them or made personal attacks on them. Seriously, if you can show us, I believe any of us would apologize. We purposely avoid making personal attacks.
BTW, by “us” I mean the writers here, not the commenters. We don’t control what commenters say, although we do usually point out when someone is out of line.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Richard Abanes is really Kay Warren…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:26 am
Rick,
is that slander? I didn’t see the astericks.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Ken Silva used to be a long haired Jesus Freak who played guitar and sang (he has a good voice) contemporary Christian songs.
Oh, that’s not slander, that is true!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Rick Frueh doesn’t clean his toenails.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Phil,
Please. I thought I was obtuse.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:28 am
IGGY - ROFL. Now everyone knows why no one has ever seen us together.
RA
May 27th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Phil…
At least this time you did not bring up my name…
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Rick picks his scabs and eats them.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
PB is obtuse…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Oh… is that wrong?
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Rick,
Actually, Ken does some good stuff ( I am refering to music)
May 27th, 2008 at 10:29 am
Richard Abanes is on Rick’s secret payroll to seek and destroy all who have the audacity to disagree with PD.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Iggy is living postmodern in Montana which means he has running water and indoor plumbing.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:31 am
JohnD
This is supposed to be satire!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:32 am
So, I assume this means you don’t have evidence to back up your claim.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:32 am
PB,
Was that slander?… I am so obtuse sometimes. Sometimes I am chartreuse… but that’s another story.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 10:33 am
John MacArthur is not the head of his household.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:33 am
we just deconstructed it before we put it in…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:33 am
I have plenty of evidence. Just comb the comments and the OA’s and you will see it.
I still contend the most recent article on Ingrid from Chris L was originally a ad hominem hit piece and not satire.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Happy Birthday Rick!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Ken Silva is never been photographed because he is really Brian McLaren trying to gain sympathy for the emerging church.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Today is really not Rick’s birthday. He habitually lies about that.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Iggy,
Now thats funny. :=) LOL
May 27th, 2008 at 10:36 am
PB,
no it was satire from me and it was mean spirited… against myself.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Tim Reed is a Buddhist monk.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Yes we still understand that you maintain your original slanderous remarks which accuse Chris L and his wife of lying despite having no evidence of such.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Rick Frueh is a closeted papist who believes in paedo-baptismal regeneration
May 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Chris Lyon’s secretly loves to dance like Michael Jackson’s thriller.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Rick,
I only have the physique of a Buddhist monk.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:38 am
For the record I have never said Zan is a liar.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:38 am
JOHND: Richard Abanes is on Rick’s secret payroll to seek and destroy all who have the audacity to disagree with PD.
RA: That one’s been used already. Try again.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:39 am
…and you would be wrong.
How is it that all of us were able to see as a satirical piece from the get-go?
May 27th, 2008 at 10:39 am
nc - I am coming out of the closet. I have issued many opinions that are considered bulls!
May 27th, 2008 at 10:40 am
Iggy is actually John MacArthur’s long lost son…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:41 am
Kay’s secret payroll?
May 27th, 2008 at 10:41 am
PB can’t decide to become a Calvinist because he is still trying to figure out if he is a Supralapsarianist or Infralapsarianist.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Rick Abanes is just a fabrication by Lighthouse Trails Ministries to push sales at their site.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:44 am
iggy is just a 10 year old with dial up access.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Mrs. Schlueter must address her husband as “lord”.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:50 am
Daniel Chew flunked mechanical drawing.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:51 am
Iggy,
I am the one that says that God planned Christ’s Sacrifice from eternity past.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Phil,
As I said before, if an ADM writes it, it is satire.
If an ODM writes it, it is slander
It all depends which ‘team’ you are on.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:56 am
No, it depends on your reading comprehension skills or your unwillingness to accept the truth…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:59 am
What a bunch of crap. So far you’ve got one data point in which anyone here wrote satire that was misinterpreted. On the other hand we’ve got article after article, and comment after comment from ODMs which are slander, and even when they’ve been objectively called on it usually the only thing that happens is the article gets pulled without notice instead of a retraction and apology.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Tim…
Sorry was that last comment satire?
Tim Reed daily sands down the horns on his head…
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 11:01 am
The fact that Mrs. Schlueter was willing to overlook the fact that someone who works for a cult enjoyed the radio program seems incongruent with much of what she is unwilling to overlook in others. Chris Lyons post was presented in a satirical way to illustrate that point.
Simple, very simple.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Mandy Reed has big problems with her pastor.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:04 am
Rick Frueh looks really good in this
May 27th, 2008 at 11:06 am
I look good in everything! I wear that dress when I go drag queen witnessing!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:07 am
I thought Ricks hair was shorter
May 27th, 2008 at 11:08 am
Rick, when I lose weight i want it back ok?
May 27th, 2008 at 11:08 am
PB: As I said before, if an ADM writes it, it is satire.
If an ODM writes it, it is slander
RA: Wow, your mind just REFUSES to get it, huh?
Here, let me try again, because I am finding this interesting and I am curious.
PLEASE tell me what you don’t understand or agree with here.
1. If you say a lie about someone and are serious - it’s slander, either intentionally or unintentionally, especially after you’ve been corrected and still decide to spread the untruth = ODMs.
2. When you deliberately make a false statement and recognize it as such, doing so in the hopes of show how others are wrong/absurd in making the same KIND of accusations, then you are using SATIRE to make a point to bring change by pointing out the error you are copying in an absurd fashion = AODMs
Whew. Let’s try this again. (hits send button).
RA
May 27th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Richard Arbanes is on meth!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:10 am
So what does it make it that I (the author of the piece) obviously pointed to it being satirical prior to posting it?
For the record I do like Kirk Cameron and I like most of what he does with WoTM.
Plus I’ve still got my autographed cover of TigerBeat with him wearing a members only jacket.
May 27th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Richard Abanes finally gets an ODM to understand something…
OK that might have been mean… sorry Richard.
iggy
May 27th, 2008 at 11:15 am
PB accuses iggy of correct doctrine!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Richard Abanes is NOT purpose driven!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:39 am
OK, PB, that is below the belt!!
May 27th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Kirk Cameron secretly hates bananas…
May 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
exactly.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Especially chocolate dipped frozen bananas
May 27th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
Rick
Maybe if I wrote it like this:
****Richard Abanes is NOT purpose driven****
****satire****
May 27th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
PB is a ODM that writes satire…
May 27th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
It seems from this, Chris, that just the title is satire.
So what did he really say, or not say?
It seems to me that he didn’t write the article you linked, so, I wonder if he did actually speak about Jesus. If he did, would this stop being satire and become slander.
I still cannot understand why people who call themselves Christians, and who say that they are defending against this sort of attack, go ahead and attack a family man and an evangelist who is as real as it gets in hollywood.
And Richard, I don’t need another definition of Slander and Satire. It falls on deaf ears with me, sort of like Iggy and Doug Pagitts definition of universalism.
Chris, I cannot judge your intents. I am sorry if it seems that way to you or any other commenter. It just seems to me that people are saying hateful lies and calling it satire.***
***opinion
May 27th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
So what I’ve learned from this all is…
ODMs slander…and mean it (ie, are ’serious’)
“ADMs” try to show this fallacy by satire (using the same tactics, to show the absurdity of it all, but not meaning it, ie, satire). And in my opinion, it’s worked well to show me the insanity of it all.
Got it. Thanks guys.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
PB,
You do not understand satire in the least, if you did you would not have written anything like this.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
PB, you don’t get it. Okay, maybe you do, but are just acting like this because you never are wrong. Werrr…
Okay so…anyone the ODMs don’t like, get slandered. But when Kirk Cameron (on ‘their side) does the same thing that say…Rob Bell might do, ie, not mention Jesus in an interview, he get’s the “AOK”. Whereas if it were Rob Bell, he’d be slandered and dismantled.
How do you NOT see this? Are you so theologically entrenched, or enraptured with the ODMs, that you can’t possibly ever be wrong?
How can this be?
May 27th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Tim,
quit falsely judging me. I understand satire. I think it is being used improperly here. Why not be honest and just say how you feel?
Why not just say Kirk Cameron appeared on GMA and didn’t witness about Jesus, isn’t that horrible?
I guess it just sounds racier to lie and say he denies Jesus and call it satire.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Perhaps the reason you cannot discern Chris’ staire, PB, is because there is no discernment in your heart? Kind of like the way you prooftext scripture when you’re looking for the blood of folks like Bell, Warren, etc…
KC was not attacked. Context, context, context… If this were not so OBVIOUSLY a mirror image of Ingrid/Ken’s diatribes against Bell/Warren/Cyrus/etc. (name the Christian on a public stage that doesn’t use the podium of the moment to give the Roman Road), then you might have a case, but since you acknowledge that a) we’re Christians; and b) that we defend against such attacks; and given that c) this is pretty much the modus operandi of the ODM’s; it only naturally follows that d) perhaps the author really isn’t talking about Kirk Cameron here…
Ya think?
May 27th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Joe C
I didnt see the interview, I am waiting for the video.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
I can truthfully judge that you don’t understand satire because you think the article was about Cameron. You don’t understand satire and every false judgment you’ve rained down about the two satirical articles that have appeared recently testifies to that fact.
May 27th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
PB: It falls on deaf ears with me…
RA: THAT is painfully obvious.
And no, you STILL don’t seem to get it, as evidenced by your remark: “I still cannot understand why people who call themselves Christians, and who say that they are defending against this sort of attack, go ahead and attack a family man and an evangelist who is as real as it gets in hollywood.”
Seriously — where are you??????
Did you not read my statement: “No one here has actually said ANYTHING disparaging against Cameron’s ACTUAL beliefs or faith. You don’t get that?”
And did you not read: “I can’t believe I have to actually spell this out - NO ONE BELIEVES ANYTHING WE SAID ABOUT CAMERON!!! The issue is how ODMs analyze the words of their targets.”
What are you talking about??!!! (This is like the Twilight Zone - I mean, it really is remarkable journey into the human mind).
RA
May 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Probably because we don’t find it horrible
Erg. NO! You OBVIOUSLY don’t get the point of satire. OBVIOUSLY. Instead of ignoring RA, perhaps you should read the definitions he’s helpfully provided for you…
Joe C summed up the article ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY:
Certainly the article could have just said this, but the illustration was far more powerful, because it created the reaction we get every stinkin’ day that the ODM’s hit “publish” on a new load of lies…
May 27th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Chris L
Whatever.
I perceive you are not reading the same articles.
May 27th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
It’s over. PB,