Guilt by Association
Ingrid recently went on a rant about how compromising and heretical Chuck Colson is. She really had no argument for how compromising or heretical what he had to say was. Her whole argument went as followed
- Chuck Colson is a heretic because a spoke at a conference sponsored by an unorthodox church
- Chuck Colson is a heretic because he accepted a cash award from an unorthodox religious organization
First off, I was at the ReThink conference, and Chuck Colson was more than orthodox in everything that he had to say. In fact, he was somewhat boring because what he had to say has been said for years and years. If any believer had the opportunity to speak truth, let alone in a place where the truth is often skewed, they should jump at the chance to do so.
Second, why are we not celebrating when the religions of the world recognize Christianity as the one community that is leading the way in actually doing what the scriptures say? I mean, if an organization comprised of people who were “strapping unicorn horns onto their heads and leaping through the hotel lobbies” sees that Christianity is actually making an impact on the world… throw a party! Don’t criticize someone for accepting the recognition.
Using the logic behind this article, Jesus and Paul were probably shining examples of heretics. Preaching among pagan leaders, accepting recognition from whores, thieves and drunkards, and drinking wine on top of all that! Man… why would anyone ever listen to what they had to say?
February 18th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
All I see is “Lee Harvey didn’t shoot Kennedy” in Ingrid’s article.
Conspiracy, Conspiracy, Conjecture, Inference, = heretic.
But no evidence…
I guess you have to put it in perspective…
If an Atheist told me I did an awesome job for helping out the poor based on my faith in Christ, and he and his little club wanted to give me a cash reward (which I could then use for the ministry even more), would it be wrong?
Is calling what is good, good, a good thing to do? Or is Ingrid, gasp, calling what is good, evil?
Booth didn’t shoot Lincoln! It was his wife!!! I know this because his wife was a member of the local gun club!
Joe
February 18th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I think she was Illuminati, or a Mason. Perhaps both…
February 18th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
Accepting money from anybody is OK as long as you do not compromise your message or make a bigger deal of a large donor than a widow. Colson’s embracing of the Roman Catholic Church as orthodox is a real problem, his views are probably aligned with Billy Graham’s at this juncture.
However, His book “Born Again” was a major reason I got saved. I will always be grateful.
I continue to resist and reject Inrid’s personal and sometimes sarcastic rebukes that are still outside the guidelines of the New Testament both in tone and accountability. Here is a snippet:
“Railing against secularism and “radical Islam†(is there any other kind?) is a waste of time if even you cannot identify heresy when you see it, Chuck. Perhaps you did see it, but rubbing shoulders with the world’s elite at the Rethink Conference was too important.”
That is condescending and judges Colson’s personal motives. It is wrong and as you know I see very little of this type of verbiage coming from the wives of the one’s Ingrid speaks to. Aside from the gender issue, I sometimes see her words as too personal and seemingly designed to show her boldness.
If we (me) who speak our hearts to others about their teachings and use the “h” word, but we never speak as eloquently and passionately concerning our own shortcomings in living the same truths we defend, we are the other “h” word.
February 18th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
Thank you for not dropping the H-bomb(s) Rick. You could have offended my sensibilities =)
Oh and…Japan appreciates it to.
Oh man…terrible taste…just terrible.
Actually Joe…those were Atom Bombs….Hydrogen Bombs weren’t invented until the 50s.
Shut up Joe. Don’t ruin my politically incorrect fun.
Joe
February 18th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
heretics - hypocrites
cousins.
It is possible to be a heretic and not a hypocrite.
It is possible to be a hypocrite and not a heretic.
I’m an old man, I get confused. I need to put out an official guide as to both. I feel the hypocrite list will be much longer.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Uh oh, Joe C is arguing with himself again.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
This is just variations on a theme.
John Piper quotes Dallas Willard, and Carla Rolfe throws Piper under the bus for poor “discernment” (along with 1500 words about how bad Willard is — most of which are quotes of still others that like Willard.
Mark Driscoll preaches at the same conference as (some random heretic — I don’t remember or care) and so Steve Camp throws him under the same bus for “partnering” with said heretic, because the two men occupied the same space at different times.
Even John MacArthur has been the victim of asinine GBA attacks. Can you imagine what kind of person thinks that MacArthur is a flaming liberal?
Do these people think that Jesus was praising the people He cited in Matthew 11:19 ?
February 18th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Did someone say…. Nephilim? They are everywhere… I even saw them in Ingrid’s artcle…
iggy
February 18th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Now, we have one ODM that says Dave Hunt is attacking the doctrines of grace and wrong and Ingrid that says he is “quotable” enough to use to make her point for her… (whatever that was).
In fact here is what Phil Johnson of team pyor had to say of Dave Hunt…
So Ingrid quotes Dave who is one of the Truth Warriors biggest foes…. So Ken’s most hated “man loving/ semi pelagian” issues are being used by Ingrid who quotes a person the Hero’s of the Truth war deem a perosn who is attacking the Doctrines of Grace…
This is so precious!
iggy
February 18th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Sometimes you forget to compare notes!
February 18th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
“In fact, he was somewhat boring because what he had to say has been said for years and years.”
Careful, Nathan, I could easily construct an article just upon that statement. =)
February 18th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
“Using the logic behind this article, Jesus and Paul were probably shining examples of heretics. Preaching among pagan leaders, accepting recognition from whores, thieves and drunkards, and drinking wine on top of all that!”
I’ve actually said something like this before. The response was, “There’s that lame ‘Jesus ate with sinners’ line again! Why don’t you come up with something original?” They went on to use the example of Jesus getting angry in the temple. (Real original, huh?)
“Man… why would anyone ever listen to what they had to say?”
Lots of Christians don’t, apparently.
February 18th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
No… it wasn’t boring because it is old. It was boring because it was kinda a “duh” sermon. There was nothing that he said that needed to be preached at a conference. Especially a conference that was supposed to be rethinking new concepts.
February 18th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
I saw you getting your brains beat in on that comment thread. You’re braver, and more persistent than most.
February 18th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
You could always point out that they’re using the turning of tables out of context…
February 18th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
“I saw you getting your brains beat in on that comment thread. You’re braver, and more persistent than most.”
Thanks, Tim, although it probably means I need to get a life. I actually wasn’t taking the thread or commenters very seriously. I found myself laughing out loud more frequently than I should have. But thanks.