The graphic nature of this post may offend some of our older viewers. Viewer discretion is advised.
Posted by admin on Feb 11th, 2008
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February 11th, 2008 at 11:20 am
I had forgotten about that until I read CRN’s article on it this morning, so I ordered it from Amazon just to spite them.
I love the smell of burning sulfur in the morning…
February 11th, 2008 at 11:31 am
That post is so telling. Note there’s no actual reason given why telling Biblical events in manga form is so wrong, it just is.
Once again the ODMs favor style over substance.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Please inform a poor dumb fundamentalist why this post would be controversial? I do not understand…
February 11th, 2008 at 11:39 am
You’ll have to ask the cowardly editor, since no actual reasons are given.
I guess they’re just offended by the cross.
February 11th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Maybe it’s wrong because manga is a Japanese artform… isn’t true Christianity to be expressed from a Western European perspective?
Neil
February 11th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Rick,
Which post do you mean?
Neil
February 11th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Rick,
Manga is a Japanese style of art, primarily used in graphic novels (sometimes referred dirisively as “grown-up comic books”). I suspect it is ‘controvesial’ because a) it’s not a full translation of the Bible in graphic form, but a collection of biblical narratives, and b) as an art-form, Manga is culturally “hip”, and therefore ontologically evil.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
How archaic am I? I’m still in the spittoon generation. I tried to read the small print and it seemed Biblical, no? It looks like a Jack Chick tract!
February 11th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
*offended*
Not.
Although, Manga Jesus is pretty dramatic. And we can’t have that, now can we?
I just am so upset that they smashed this manga for style, but mentioned nothing of whether the content was Biblical or not (Which from what I can see, it is straight out of the Bible).
Style over Substance for sure.
Joe
February 11th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I am not one to be wishy-washy, but sometimes I get confused about what I should be against. I need an unabridged list of things I need to be against.
It is things like this picture that obscure some legitimate issues on some sites. When you get caught up in something like this, it puts the atonement as just another rant.
February 11th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
I wrote a post about this a while ago.
http://christianresearchnetwork.info/2007/07/18/another-thing-to-add-to-the-thou-shalt-not-list/
Here’s my thoughts:
1. Manga has been around since the 1940s (although some would say it began in the late 18th century). It’s not some new hip thing.
2. Manga is a niche market. Why are the ODMs going after a niche market? (It’s like saying indie rocker Sufjan Stevens is a threat to Christianity)
3. Manga originated from Japan. Is the editor’s bigotry showing?
February 11th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
If you look really close and imagine, Mary who is way to pretty, (God only works through ugly people!) is wearing a schoolgirl uniform under her robe that is way too short…
Also, the angel looks too much like Shane Clairborne.
I might also point out that the nails were not that long…
can’t you see how evil that all is!!!!!!
iggy
February 11th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Rick, I’m not followng your point…
I too, at first glance, thought of Jack Chick…
Neil
February 11th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Can’t be Jack Chick, tho - he’s a KJVO’er
February 11th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Neil - what I meant was there are important issues to discuss, and when you make things like this as important as those you diminish the substantive issues. I have conveyed that to Ken Silva and Ingrid about overreaching on minors which is counter-productive to the main issues but they disagree.
February 11th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I love it. I’m a visual person, and I think this is neat. Almost as good as having the entire Bible made into a movie, but not quite.
I wish the Bible would be made into a series of movies. Good movies that don’t stray from Scripture and aren’t cheesy. Many of them would be rated R, but I’d love them.
February 11th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
I think that it just might be the incompleteness of the Manga version. Haven’t they translated the Bible into Japanese yet???
Why not just give them the whole story fully translated? Why would you tell an incomplete story of Christ when it’s not necessary? Just print a Bible, let them read and learn.
Can they learn from the pictures? Sure. But why be incomplete?
February 11th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Inq,
All stories have a beginning. Perhaps the incomplete story (which appears to have the full gospel in it) is a means to get to that story.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
The Bible is in Japanese. I don’t know the quality of the translation, though.
Manga Bible is created in the UK. It’s in the style of manga. It’s not in Japanese (yet) so it’s not intended for Japan.
It is not my impression that the Manga Bible is intended as a substitute for the actual Bible nor is it a translation. It’s a visual adaptation.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
From the CR?N article:
Yup. It tells me that you’ll take anything that the NYT says as gospel if it matches your pre-conceived notions.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Why would you think that only older viewers would be offended? Some younger ones would be also offended.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
I must not be getting it. Especially with the accompanying Biblical words, I still cannot see the offense. Is it the art? I would like someone who is offended to explain it to me in unemotional terms that I can understand.
I am an older viewer as well.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
I think what he meant was that us older viewers would be offended by the fact that the print is too small for us to read.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
The offense is the re-molding of God’s Word away from historical accuracy and the true way the Gospel unfolded in Biblical times. It really is un-needed and the focus becomes the “art” itself instead of the Word of God. The deeper offense is it doesn’t really give God’s Word the respect it should.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Tim B,
So Jesus was not hung on a cross between two thieves. As in panel 1.
Then Jesus was not set in a tomb…
Then the women did not go to it?
and they were not met by an Angel that stated that they were looking for the living among the dead?
So…. what part of that is “re-molding of God’s Word away from historical accuracy and the true way the Gospel unfolded in Biblical times”?
Your turn, tell me which of those is “re-molding of God’s Word” and maybe I will listen… so far your view is just…
“I don’t like it cuz it is a cartoon”…. and lack even that in substance of an argument.
iggy
February 11th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Tim - you gave me generalizations that I cannot connect. How does it disrespect the Word? Point to a place on the picture where it does this so I can see.
“the way the gospel unfolded in Biblical times”
OK, someone get me a flashlight it’s dark in here.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I can’t gripe about it if I can’t read it!!! Stinkin’ bifocals!
February 11th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
I had to copy it and enlarge it to read. All the quotes are quite Biblical so I do not see the offense.
February 11th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I had to snatch the picture from the NY Times article which is why its so small.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
“It really is un-needed.”
Is any art really needed? Is any music really needed? Is any book really needed? Is any creation human beings make with their hands really needed? Is any interpretation of anything really needed? ” ‘Meaningless, meaningless,’ says the teacher, ‘everything is utterly meaningless.’ ”
Except the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel is needed. Oh, wait! This is the Gospel. The most important part, too. Jesus dying for our sins.
I don’t think this is meant to be read as an actual Bible. It’s someone’s artwork taken from the Bible, in graphic novel form. Like a Bible storybook for children. Although some people complain about those, too . . .
February 11th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
Tim B,
Here is just the first panel… I could not make out one word… but here is the transcript of that panel.
So, again, how is this “re-molding of God’s Word away from historical accuracy and the true way the Gospel unfolded in Biblical times”?
iggy
February 11th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
This is what I read in the article linked to from the graphic above:
“In the Manga Bible, whose heroes look and sound like skateboarders in Bedouin gear, Noah gets tripped up counting the animals in the Ark: “That’s 11,344 animals? Arggh! I’ve lost count again. I’m going to have to start from scratch!â€
Abraham rides a horse out of an explosion to save Lot. Og, king of Bashan, looms like an early Darth Vader. The Sermon on the Mount did not make the book, though, because there was not enough action to it.”
It’s not so much the particulars in the above quote make it bad but the overall attitude that the Gospel and the Bible has to be “dressed up” to be appealing to certain demographics as if the plain presentation of the Gospel itself isn’t good enough. God speaks through His Word to convict the sinner (and Christian), not the marketing itself. So I’m not just not liking it because “it’s a cartoon.”
February 11th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Thank you, Iggy. Now I can see why people are offended. Just kidding. Are we offended when someone writes a song that depicts Golgatha in their own words and music? This is what happens when we have our offense antenas always on alert.
I still marvel at the time and energy it must take to scour the internet for these types of things. I really would not know where to look because my offense-o-meter is out of batteries.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:24 pm
TB - I can see your point, however there is nothing in this picture that seems like innappropriate humor.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
FYI - From the Amazon listings and other online descriptions, the Manga Bible contains the entire text of the NT and OT, but also includes the Manga story panels arranged within the appropriate books.
February 11th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Wow. Nice. I hadn’t realized that.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Henry, I wasn’t focusing so much on the particular picture posted in this thread but the overall endless attempts to make the Bible “cool” or “cosmopolitan” or whathaveyou. There is a danger of deleting, adding, changing meaning of the words of the Bible which God forbids.
I can see where “bibles” like the Manga one keeps a person from reaching higher levels of maturity in his spiritual life because he favors it over a straight text Bible. A guy shouldn’t be relying on cartoon bibles past high school.
February 11th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Â
I guess the same could be said for the JESUS Film as well.
Neil
February 11th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Who’s to say it’s uneeded?
Would you say the same thing about da Vinci? - his stuff lacked accuracy as well (e.g. - make sure everyone is on one side of the table so no one has their back to the audience…)
On what grounds do you say it is disrespectful of the Word?
February 11th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
Neil…
It can be said of any artistic thing… and of commentaries.
Calvin left out more than he wrote about… MacArthur leaves out tons of stuff in his commentaries…
Yet, there seems to be no criticism there.
Yet, with the drawings, there is conveyed some things we may not grasp from the text… such as emotion.
Jesus cured the demoniac… and the man desired to follow Jesus. Yet, Jesus did not let him follow and sent him home to tell of what God had done.
I imagine there was much about the Gospel the man left out.
iggy
February 11th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
BTW…
Tim Bell is stating we need to set the bible in it’s context…
Yet, when Rob Bell does this, he is wrong…
????
iggy
February 12th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Timothy Bell: It’s … the overall attitude that …
Why do I keep missing the announcements on this stuff ?!?!
I missed the one that said Steve Camp handed over the mantle of omniscience to John MacArthur, and now I’ve missed the one that said that John gave it to Timothy Bell.
How am I supposed to keep up with which human has the ability to read man’s hearts the way that God does? My RSS reader must be clogged.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:41 am
This is an instance where people treat the actual text of the Bible as sacred, rather than looking at it as a complete narrative. I’ve never liked the term “sacred text”, because it really misses the point of Scripture. The phrase “sacred text” implies there’s something magical about the words themselves, and that we can treat them like spells or slogans.
The Bible tells the story of God and his people. It’s powerful because it testifies to the reality of God’s work in the world. It invites us to participate in the story. It’s as C.S. Lewis said the greatest myth ever told. It’s not a myth in the sense that it’s not true, but it’s a myth in the sense it resonates with people at the deepest level.
This is why Jesus communicated by telling stories. They’re powerful and humans need them. It seems to me that Manga is probably a good way to tell these stories.
February 12th, 2008 at 11:31 am
Well, there goes our stained glass communicating biblical stories in abridged form…they’re incomplete right?
Better yet, there goes most sunday school curriculum that makes Bible concepts accessible to children at the level they can understand…yep, that first grader is being led to hell because he/she asked Jesus “into their heart” and to “forgive their sins” but they don’t understand words like “imputation” or “propitiation” or “expiation” or “whatever-ation”….
This is just stupid.
Leave it to Christians
February 12th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
da vinci’s “Last Supper” is a painting, not a Bible, and I certainly wouldn’t equate it with the Bible.
What I meant by historical accuracy is not whether Jesus wore a blue robe and John wore a red one, or whether they sat on the floor versus sitting in chairs, but rather the words spoken, meanings, and concepts the Bible mentions. Like the Magna Bible has Noah saying words “That’s 11,344 animals? Arggh! I’ve lost count again. I’m going to have to start from scratch!” That is not historically accurate in that the Bible doesn’t have Noah saying those words. Jesus was a Jew, not a Black Jesus, as some other people try to portray Him.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I’m pretty sure there would be much criticism about a Calvin Bible and a MacArthur Bible if they left out stuff, added in stuff as much as the Magna Bible did.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Brendt, I never claimed to read man’s hearts to know if they are saved or not. The “overall attitude” I’m talking about is the one where God’s Words is not viewed as adequate in themselves as expressed in the text of the Bible to save man, that His Words has to be re-interpreted through accompanying art/graphics of all sorts. I don’t know where you get the impression that I’m claiming to “read man’s hearts.”
February 12th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
“Sacred text” means that the text is God’s Word to us….God is the one who spoke or spoke through the various writers. It is sacred because of who the Author is, not because it is perceived as magic words.
February 12th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
TB,
Perhaps you missed it, but the Magna Bible actually has the entire text of the Bible in it, with the graphic art panels in the appropriate places. From previous conversations with the artist, Siku, his intent was not to ‘rewrite the bible’ or to suggest, somehow, that the Bible is inadequate. Rather, it was to capture some of the narrative in a visual format that would draw in (primarily) younger people who are unfamiliar with what is in the Bible.
February 12th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Comments at Amazon left by buyers of the Magna Bible indicated that there were missing parts of the Bible. Did Siku say this was a bible for children?
February 12th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
I think part of the problem is many people don;t look to preach another day. If they view this as incomplete, do you only preach the whole Bible on Sunday mornings? I imagine in most churchs you take a section and go from there, maybey even a whole book if you’re ambitious.
But why cant this book speak only to certain points? Even if it didn’t have the whole text as long as the section being discussed is whole?
It’s not like this is being made to replace the Bible, it’s more of a glimpse for those unfamiliar with the Bible or it’s more like an artistic commentary for those who are.
As an avid comic book reader, I can tell you the one thing comic book readers have a problem with is stopping. Here’s what I mean by that, when I read a comic book, I want to read the rest of the series, have I run out, am I up to date? I’m going to want to read the side-stories of supporting characters, have I run out of that? I’m going to want to read guidebooks, encylopedias and the like. I imagine this artistic endeavor may have the same effect, someone reading it for the first time will want to read more about the same people they learned about in the comic.
I know for me, the reason I’d pick something up like this is that as a life-long Christian it’s often hard for me to get out of my own head when I read scripture. Even in church it’s hard because it’s hard to get out of the head of the local community. But with commentaries, art, sermons and other interpretive endeavors from across the world it often allows you to see the Biblical texts from a different angle, from a new set of eyes, a firm reminder that I am a believer in an ancient, worldwide faith, not one that started with me and my experience.
But I imagine beyond the refusal to allow people to preach another day (a common thread I see in ODM’s when someone preaches on a specific topic instead of the whole Gospel, why not turn that around! Why don’t these ODM’s lay out the whole Gospel begining to end in each post if they view what they do as a ministry if in preaching and in ministry you have to cover everything all the time) it also goes to a common thread of its not from their own sub-culture and interests, it must be wrong. As I doubt the ODM’s read comic books, since this is a comic it must be wrong!
February 12th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
TB,
The comments seem to indicate that parts of the Bible weren’t illustrated, but I’m not sure if this means it’s missing or if just the illustration is missing (they also talk about two versions OUS, with one just being the artwork). I’ve got a copy on order for my son, so I’ll know more in a week or so…
February 12th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Is this Bible in a certain translation? I would not object to appropriate artwork along side the KJV, NAS, NIV, or some other translation.
February 12th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Personally, I don’t care what translation is used for something like this. It probably makes more sense to be a paraphrase along the lines of the way some of the film adaptations have been.
My whole point about the Bible being a narrative was that the inspiration I believe extends back past the words themselves. The narratives are inspired, yes, but it sure seems like there was some freedom for human choice on word usage and such. Even Jesus quoted from the Septuagint, which I find very interesting given the fact that He had the original Jewish Scriptures at His disposal as well.
I think it’s a case where Christians are willing to miss the forest for the trees. Will argue over the nuances of Scripture, but miss the clear story that it tells.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
sheesh…as far historical accuracy goes, then people better get really mad at those old Charlton Heston movies and the liberties they took with the story line–such a betrayal.
And good heavens…just cuz something isn’t in the Bible doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
PLUS, who cares if Noah said the “animal count” thing or not? It doesn’t detract from the essence of the story, the point of the narrative, the message that God was sending by judging the world with a flood.
Talk about self-righteous nitpicking.
Give it a rest.
Really.
February 12th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
I’ve seen artistic renderings of Jesus portrayed as a “red” native american, a “black” african, a “white” european and even “yellow” asian - hey… maybe we could make a song… red, yellow, black, white… no, that would only be accurate if applied to people not Jesus.
Anyway, beyond the pettiness of this discussion, seeing portrayal of Christ through the eyes of others races/cultures is one of my favorite things…Â
February 12th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
nc, the Charlton Heston movies are just that, movies, not the Bible. Nobody is claiming that those movies are true to the Bible narrative and therefore we should watch them instead of reading the actual Bible. So therefore there isn’t anyone getting “really mad” about that.
I agree with your statement there. But why add something that you may or may not know actually happen into the Bible? How serious do you think we should take Revelations 22:18, Proverbs 30:6, and Deut. 12:32?
Hey, I’m sorry if it bothers you but just take it up with God.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
TB,
Do you get upset that chapter and verse references are added? That’s not just the Bible, that’s every Bible, and it inherently effects how you read just about every bit of scripture.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Timothy Bell: I never claimed to read man’s hearts to know if they are saved or not.
“I don’t know where you get the impression that” I said that you were talking about salvation.
Timothy Bell: I don’t know where you get the impression that I’m claiming to “read man’s hearts.â€
More than happy to help clarify.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
Brendt, when we talk about “men’s hearts” usually it is in reference to a man’s (or some people’s) salvation…so that is why I thought you were talking about salvation.
February 12th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
No, I don’t get upset about that. I consider them merely reference points or guides. I think it helps find things in the Bible. I believe it is understood that God and the writers didn’t write that way in the original manuscripts. I don’t believe they change the meaning(s) of the text but if you can give some examples, that’d be helpful and interesting.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
I don’t think Siku has claimed that his artwork IS holy scripture, which is the implication of “adding to” scripture. Otherwise, every movie, song, etc. which isn’t 100% scripture in the original order is guilty of your interpretation of these verses…
February 12th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
It’s obvious that those references articulate a concern with anything that would essentially alter the essential message, etc. of the text.
Specifically, the Deut. text is speaking about the content of those covenantal stipulations found in that chapter. (This is a text book example of someone being guilty of the very things they attack others for: cherry picking.) This isn’t a verse you get to snatch out of it’s literary flow and make it into a theology of the Bible.
The Proverbs text is speaking of the sufficiency of God’s wisdom and how our wisdom is not needed to augment it. Read the opening verses of the chapter to get a sense of the confession of the text that culminates with v. 5. That’s essential before we cherry pick some kind of “law” out of wisdom literature.
Lastly, the text from Revelation (no “s” on the end, thank you very much) is clearly speaking of the “book” of Revelation. There is NO justification in the text to expand that statement to the whole of scripture. It’s irresponsible and does violence to the function of that specific apocalyptic text.
I can do a word search on BibleGateway and develop a whole theology too….
Puh.
Leeeeeze.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
The verses I quoted are not referring to movies, songs, etc. that are not in the Bible but the Bible itself. These are not long verses and it is pretty clear…even your son I’m sure could understand them.
February 12th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Not that it’s relevant to the discussion, but it also grates me when somone says/writes “Psalms ###” - it’s “Psalm ###” - that you very much…
February 12th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
The Bible repeatedly states “do not add, do not subtract” from God’s Words in various different places. Since we believe that the WHOLE of the Bible is God’s Word, it is understood that these verses cover the WHOLE Bible. Are we to change text in the Gospels or the Psalms as we want? If we believe they are also God’s Words then no.
February 12th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
TB,
Siku is not claiming that his artwork is God’s word any more than John MacArthur claims that his commentary integrated into a Study Bible is God’s word.
Your argument just doesn’t wash because it doesn’t even come close to matching the facts of the matter…
February 12th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
First - I believe the point of these prohibitions is against changing the meaning, not the details… such as adding laws that are not there.
Second - It would be impossible to translate the Bible and not change it - even the NIV “adds” words.
Third - applying this to the Bible is one thing, applying to an artistic version of it is another thing all together.
Neil
February 12th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
granting that the Bible is from God doesn’t mean those verses are speaking of the whole text.
I think you might have a case if Siku was trying to establish some kind of council that would be able to make definitive statements about the canon and he was trying to add to the canon.
He’s not adding to anything the way you’re insistent upon.
I think you’re a sincere dude, but I also think this theology of the Bible is pretty ham handed.
We can assert the inspiration and authoritative nature of the Bible as being from God without doing violence to the text itself by cherry picking verses out of the flow of the context they’re found in to construct some kind of artificial rules about the Bible.
Your response doesn’t seriously address the clear arguments FROM THE TEXT about the function of those verses.
So much for valuing the Bible…
February 13th, 2008 at 8:13 am
I never said Siku is claiming his artwork is God’s Word. I am offended in the manner in which the Bible has to be “coolified” in order for people, young and old, to read it.
February 13th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Talk about reading motives into people’s actions.
Were you offended when the Bible was translated into English? Or by stained glass, nativity scenes, Biblical drama/movies? Even adding chapter and verse references adds to the readablity of scripture.
February 13th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Ok, to a certain extent I can agree with you but it’s like wanting to know how far can a person go in sex and still be called a virgin.
I understand in translation certain words get added and deleted. I’m not offended by that as long as they attempt to not change the meaning.
As my earlier postings attest to, I’ve not applied this to movies, songs, etc.
February 13th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Some people think “cool” Christians and Jews would like the Magna Bible.
Several times already I’ve indicated that I’m not applying Biblical warnings against movies, songs, etc.
February 13th, 2008 at 8:30 am
Some people think “cool” Christians and Jews would like leather bound bibles with gold trim and a little ribbon, did you have a problem with that?
February 13th, 2008 at 8:33 am
I want to know where people got the idea that Manga is “cool” or “hip” these days. All you have to do is go to one of the Sci-Fi conventions at your local Days Inn, and you’ll soon discover that the majority of people who are into Manga and Anime are not “cool”.
It’s it’s own little geek sub-culture made up of people who argue about things like the type of engine installed on the Enterprise.
February 13th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Violence? That’s a strong word to use. Considering that God admonishes anyone that attempts to alter what He has written and that He has done so more than once and that all Scripture is God-breathed, it is pretty well established that God means ALL, the WHOLE Bible. If that is “violence” to you, then so be it.
You multiple expressions of sarcasm is noted.
February 13th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I would have a problem with that if gold trim and a little ribbon becomes an obsession with the person. But not that I would expressedly say anything about it to the person if I do not know him.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Well, if you go here: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1414316798/fishtheabys-20/ref=nosim down to the comments section, you’ll see the Magna Bible is considered “cool”.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:15 am
TB,
So your referring to this?:
Some random person’s review on Amazon? Anyway, what does it matter?
I ordered one, and it should be here today, although, I ordered something different than the one you linked to. I order the Genesis to Revelation one. I think that one is actually more of a narrative retelling of the stories with more artwork.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Tim - I pleade ignorance. Can you provide me with a verse from the Magna Bible so I can compare it with other translation? That would help me to get a better perspective of you point.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:25 am
Henry, my point is this: I’m offended by the so-called need to make the Bible “cool” by marketing it with “cool” cartoons, graphics, etc.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:30 am
Tim - you may have a point, I haven’t seen the Bible. But are you saying that the text itself is acceptable but you object to the creative ambiance?
February 13th, 2008 at 9:42 am
To do “violence” is not an extreme word. It’s the right word when we take a verse out of the context and building a theology from it.
The “verse” marker is artificial. These aren’t aphorisms that we can pick and choose to stand alone.
You still haven’t addressed the actual texts you cited in their context.
All you have is the reassertion of a prior philosophical commitment that you believe/or have been taught that determines how you will use these “verses”.
Also, it seems your objections now change.
First it’s your “theology” of the Bible and now it’s your objections over “coolifying” the Bible.
Who says it has to be to “make it cool”?
There goes all those “children’s bibles”…they sure were betraying God by making it accessible to a 3 year old.
Point it, TB, this is the kind of nitpicking that really undermines any desire to listen to you or people with your perspective even when you have a legitimate point about the state of the Church today.
The lesson is: Learn to pick your battles.
I’ve said my piece, so if you need to you can have the last word.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Henry-
I haven’t seen the Magna Bible for myself. Some Amazon comments of those who bought it mentioned some missing parts and the article linked to by the picture itself mentions missing parts too. But other than that I don’t know much about the text itself. If this was named something other than “The Magna Bible”, then that would be better.
February 13th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Valid questions all around but without addressing some core issue the discussion remains nebulous and obscure.
1. Is the text of the Magna Bible a certain translation or is it a paraphrase?
2. How many accompanying drawings are there (i.e. one every four pages)
None of us can really accurately either understand or address the issue at hand without a more definite revelation of this Magna Bible. Some specifics?
February 13th, 2008 at 9:52 am
Your last comment presents a problem. Perhaps someone who has seen one can illuminate us without prejudice.
February 13th, 2008 at 10:06 am
FYI - I have a copy on order, to arrive today or tomorrow (for my son’s birthday), so I will be able to speak to this in a couple of days…
February 13th, 2008 at 10:10 am
I doubt anyone involved with this (Siku, etc.) would consider this ‘making the Bible ‘cool”. Rather, they would see it as biblically-inspired artwork that can be used to draw others into the the text who might not otherwise have considered doing so.
Nobody is claiming that this would “replace” the Word, but rather it is in celebration of the Word and might serve to draw people into reading more of it than they have…
February 13th, 2008 at 10:25 am
The Bible repeatedly warns about altering Scriptures, not just from one verse but from multiple verses.
That’s because I do believe the context these verses do not contradict the admonishment to not change Scriptures.
So have you.
Anyone reading my comments from the beginning would be confused by this statement.
So the Magna Bible is a “teen bible” to make it understandable to teens who can’t understand a text Bible? Who is going to be more likely to be spiritually mature at age 20: the one who grown up reading a Magna Bible or the one who read a text Bible?
It is only here on this forum that I’ve ever come across anyone that largely disagrees with my views or comments on various Spiritual topics.
Likewise.
Having the so-called “last word” doesn’t prove anything. We all have lives to live and sometimes it isn’t possible to continue to reply. In this forum, there are numerous posters who most likely not share my viewpoints so for me to reply to every response from them can be too much as there are too many of them and so little time.
February 13th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Whether something is cool or not, in particular a Bible, is completely subjective. The ODMs do not think the Manga Bible is cool.
People who enjoy art, comics, visual illustrations of scripture, might actually think this is cool.
Can someone point out where this is supposed to replace the actual Bible? Did the artist say this? Was that the artist’s intent?
Anyway, anything can replace the Bible. A job. A wife. A pastor. A church. That doesn’t mean that any of the things I just mentioned are actually bad. It’s bad when it replaces.
February 13th, 2008 at 11:29 am
At least it’s not something like this
February 13th, 2008 at 11:52 am
Jack Chick has his version of illustrated scripture. I think JC is cool, but in a kitschy, needs the same medication Ken Silva needs, sort of way.
http://www.chick.com/catalog/bibleseries.asp
February 13th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
So, if it were named Manga Bible Stories you’d be giggy with it?
Neil
February 13th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
I really like the Chick tacts from an artistic pov, but I’d never give one to an unbeliever…
Neil
February 13th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
For a fascinating interview of the reclusive Jack Chick, go here:
http://members.cox.net/jimmyakin/x-meet-jack-chick.htm
Jack Chick is the grandfather of the ODMs.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
OK - got it in the mail today from Amazon (for the oldest son’s birthday next month).
A) It is not the entire Biblical text
B) It has a foreward explaining what it is and what it seeks to do (all typos are mine):
So - it does not claim to be a translation/replacement for the Bible, but rather an adaptation that seems to be aimed, in some ways, at unbelievers who might become interested in the actual text of the Bible upon reading some of the stories in TMB…
February 14th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
So it looks like there are a ton of versions of this.
The Manga Bible looks just to be like a bible with illustrations now and again and the Manga Bible: Genesis to Revelation is the comic book with sections of the Bible and refrences to the scriptures themselves.
Anybody know the difference between them?
Also, do you read them like Western or Eastern comic books? (Western you open on the left, Eastern on the right which would be like reading “backwards” of the Western version)
But while we’re talking about comic books about faith, anybody ever check out Doug Tennaples work? He can make pretty much anything about Christ. I picked up a book called Tommysaurus Rex, thought it was about dinosaurs, turns out to be about Jesus. Creature Tech? picked it up for an x-files style read, it was about Jesus. The only book of his I haven’t read yet is Flick, a book about bigfoot, but I’m sure it’s probably actually about Jesus.
February 14th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Flick = Flink
February 14th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
There is a product called The Manga Bible on Amazon that has a white cover, and I believe that has the entire Biblical text with only 90 or so pages of graphics on it. It has over 1100 pages. The Manga Bible: Genesis to Revelation is really a condensed version of the Biblical narrative in a graphic novel form. It is only 250 or so pages, but every page has graphics on it.
February 14th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Are they both by Siku?
February 14th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
I don’t believe the one with the white cover is. There is this one, however, by Siku, and it looks like it’s only available in the UK.
Here’s Siku’s website. There are quite a few different versions.