The Rethink Conference was really a bit of a letdown for me. I was expecting to hear from some of the best of the best in various industries over the two and ½ day event – I was wrong. The idea was that these 30+ speakers would get up and give a 20 minute talk on the latest innovation, thought or idea that they were working with. Actors, politicians, Christian leaders, scientists and economists were all scheduled to give leaders some insight into culture. Unfortunately this never happened. It basically turned into sermon fest 2008. Everyone basically got up and gave a sermon – even though they were not in the preaching business. This led to extreme boredom and disappointment with many of the younger members in the crowd. And surprisingly, the crowd was 85% Caucasian, over the age of 55.
I was very surprised at the number of non-Christian presenters … only a small handful. I began to wonder what the ODM hype was with this event, and then I read Apprising’s latest post over the event. I found this review to be lacking substance and presented with an obvious agenda. The commenter clearly went into the event with preconceived notions of the presenters and the movement they were connected to. I mean, the worst he could really conjure up was that Chuck Colson’s book was being released early because of his publisher, Zondervan, owned by Rupert Murdoch.
Chuck Colson may have given a clue as to his change in heart regarding the emerging church. His new book The Faith: What Christians Believe, Why They Believe It and Why It Matters was not supposed to have rolled off the press until February. However Colson said he was able to convince his publisher to advance the book to the fast track and speed up the printing process so the book would be available when he spoke at Saddleback earlier in the month of January.
It was not hard for me to do some simple deductions. You see, the publisher for Colson’s new book is Zondervan, owned by Rupert Murdoch (one of the presenters at the Re-think Conference). Murdoch’s company publishes many emerging books as well as purpose driven books. The fact that Murdoch’s pastor is Rick Warren of Saddleback cannot be ignored. No wonder the book by Colson was given priority.
That really is a stretch. I wonder if he uses the same logic with MacArthur’s book. At best, the commenter made general assumptions about the emerging church that were not even brought up at the Rethink conference. Contemplative spirituality, mysticism and reimagining the scriptures were topics that never once made an appearance at the conference. In fact, I found the content to have been, well – already rethought. It was mostly concerning befriending non-believers, becoming more relational in our approach to evangelism and becoming more concerned with global issues. There was nothing shocking, nothing heretical, nothing out-of-the-box. The closest thing to a scandal was Ben Vereen saying that Buddha, Allah and Krishna all lead to heaven. However, McManus immediately followed his session with a short talk on how he disagreed with Vereeen; all roads do not lead to heaven.
If we are accused of having the “great downgradeâ€, these ODMs should be accused of having the “great upgrade†with the scandal over this conference.
35 Comments(+Add)
Yep, those nasty “emergents” do it again and defend the truth.. man will we ever give up?
iggy
Disclaimer: I know Mcmanus is not “emergent” but he is as all are the seem to stand against real heresy and not defend made up heresy.
I wonder if you all spend the time you do here bashing folks that you do in the Word of God? I wonder what the Lord thinks of you all? You say you are here to expose others for their wrong doing, I can just imagine what the lord sees and is disgusted in with what you do here. You laugh at folks, you belittle them, you just are not Christ-like at all. And some of you call yourselves Pastors. I am sadden so much with what I see here. I know this wont be posted and that is fine. This meant for the leaders of this site to read. I would take real good look at what you are representing here. What the world must think of you all as you bash other brothers and sisters in Christ…and that goes for other sites that do the same.
Shame on you. I’m not the only one that sees this….
Annie
Good for McManus. Ditto what iggy said.
Annie,
I think you’ve mistaken us for CRN.com. (no sarcasm intended).
We’re not here to “bash” or “expose”, but rather to protect and defend brothers and sisters under attack from within. I would suggest that you read the site mission links in the upper left.
We won’t delete your comments, and we would be more than happy to discuss most topics with you, particularly as they pertain to Christian living.
Grace and peace to you…
Hmmm…, I didn’t see anyone bashing anybody, Annie. What are you talking about, exactly?
As far as the conference goes, I guess it doesn’t surprise that given the chance, most preachers, will preach (even though a lot of the presenters weren’t technically preachers). We still like our monologues for as much as we talk about the glories of dialogues.
Well, Phil, and Chris, you bash me pretty regularly.
And Ingrid, and Ken, and others with whom you disagree…
And, Iggy, Just like Doug Pagitt says he is not a Universalist out of one side of his mouth, and then with the other side espouses Universalist ideas, it does not matter what the purpose or mission of this site is when you see the bashing done on a pretty regular basis.
I have been guilty of posting in the flesh. I admit it when I do.
Look in the mirror, C?N.info, you are becoming what you despise….
Ah, here we go on. I suggest that Annie and pastorboy go back a month or so and read the various articles and comments about how this site is different from SoL and C?N.com. Shockingly this argument comes up everytime new commenters find their arguments met with scripture and reasoning rather than blind acceptance.
PB,
I don’t see disagreeing with someone or refuting an argument the same as bashing. I don’t think anyone called you names here (OK, I said you were being silly in another thread, I apologize for that), unless you think using the term Fundamentalist is name-calling. If that’s the case, you should refrain from using the term Emergent.
I’m amazed not that the CRN crowd would find Murdock presence as distasteful, but the emergent and the more modern crowd don’t!!!
I guess some can’t bite the hand that feeds..
Many people in the UK remember what a utter ruthless man he was in the 80s…I had many many friends effected by his actions in the printers strike,they lost there homes,some even their family…They were sacked over night,and replaced with untrained staff within a day..
I have a friend who lost his job,and to this day refuses to speak to his brother,who signed up as a printer though unqualified to be one..
20 years later socially aware young Christians, write books for a company owned by a man who is the antipathist of their ideas!
So CRN dislike someone printing a book by a company owned by a person who also promotes porn,i dislike it because the man is scum.
Andy,
And it is amazing that his ‘Pastor’ refuses to discipline him!
hmmm well it was the 80s ..Thats not the point,the point is shame on anyone who is socially concerned using his company to promote their ideas
Pastorboy,
I’m still waiting for you and your crowd to say the same about Johnnie Mac who is also published by Zondervan.
Once again, we see for the ODMs that its all about who’s side you’re on, not about truth.
He is? I thought he was published by Nelson….
I have another one here published by Moody Press….
Well, I have not criticized anyone for being published by Zondervan, I don’t think….
But I don’t think Johnnie Mac is his Pastor, and Rick Warren is. So, according to your own standards, Johnnie Mac should not go across town to Saddleback and discipline him. Rick Warren and his elder team should.
Mandy is correct,i have a problem with anyone who would try to spread goodness through that mans company!!
Just that theres more of irony with the emergents,after all the others are right wing themselves
i am
BW: [changed to a link that doesn't run off the page]Â
i meant i am to this>Well, I have not criticized anyone for being published by Zondervan…
My post wasn’t for or against any side of Christianity,just that i’m amazed that anyone Christian who would deal with him..
Maybe you had to live in England through the 80s and see his treatment of the miners and printers etc…
I mentioned the emergent crowd, because its some of the issues they say their concerned with,and it “strikes” me as ironic..
Man my grammar sucks
My post wasn’t for or against any side of Christianity,just that i’m amazed any Christian, would deal with him on a professionally basis..
Maybe you had to live in England through the 80s, and see his treatment of the miners and printers etc…
I mentioned the emergent crowd, because they’ve commented on the social side of the gospel,and it “strikes†me as ironic..
This is from another commenter (who works for Zondervan):
As we’ve pointed out previously, Murdoch (as a person) does not have “control” of everything in NewsCorp – he owns controlling interest in it, which has some level of influence, but not dictatorial (or editorial) power. In some of the countries in which NewsCorp works, certain editorial controls must be in place to prevent corporate influence and allow independence (or governmental censorship), depending on the country.
As for discipline, Murdoch does not attend Saddleback, but has met with Warren on several occasions. Still, we have no idea what Warren has talked about with him or what steps he (Murdoch) has taken within his power to influence NewsCorp.
Andy,
My understanding (and I can’t find the reference) is that Murdoch’s ‘conversion’ is much more recent than the 80’s. Even still, if you read the ODM subtext, none of this is really about Murdoch – it’s an end-around GBA smear against Warren…
I take the arguments that a Christian should not be published by Zondervan because of Murdock as seriously as I would someone saying we should not use a PC based on the lifestyle of Bill Gates.
Neil
PB,
Can you please point to an instance where we’ve called your a) salvation; b) brotherhood; or c) orthodoxy into question? These are the typical “bashing” points made in Christian vs. Christian slugfests, and are part-and-parcel the bread and butter of ODM’s…
I hope you won’t find that here, and apologize if you have found me to do any of these…
Annie,
The concerns you mentioned are shared by all who post on this sight (”post” as opposed to “comment” the latter is much more open and therefore harder to police). We have addressed these issues in the “How we Seek to Be Different” section.
That said, accusations such as yours would be taken more seriously, and easier to address if you were to be more specific.
Neil
Chris i never implied he was a Christian then,that was PB trying to score off my post..I
just have a bitter taste in my mouth over Murdoch,maybe you had to grow up in that period or had friends involved…
I had a friend whos brother and bf went and worked at the plant after the strike,so i saw both sides they need a job and took it, a few months later they were servely beaten in a street attack because of it.It all ran very deep.
Is Murdoch a Christian? Ii took the all Rich thing over at CRN with a pinch of salt
Neil,
The only reason for the Zondervan issue is to act as a ‘coatrack‘ for the purposes of smearing Rick Warren. It’s not something they seriously believe, but rather an avenue to bring Rick Warren (who, I would remind you, on Slice 1.0 was referred to as “the false prophet of the antichrist”) into the discussion.
It is something i seriously believe, as for Gates he asn’t shat on my friends
Chris L.,
Yeah – I agree.
Neil
There are reports that Murdoch has met with Warren on several occasions the past few years, along with a comment from Rick Warren, affirming that he had “pastored” Murdoch in the past. A Saddleback staffer later clarified Warren’s comment about “pastoring” as ‘meeting with him in private to give advice’, not that Murdoch was a member of Saddleback.
Predictably, this threw the ODM’s into a tizzy.
Neil so a person doesn’t have any moral dilemma, in who they work for,or who’s platform they make money through?
Sure they do, but like a lot of things it’s much more complicated or nuanced than the reductionist examples most ODM’s put forth.
Shoot, yesterday I wrote a statement as to why our fellowship has started buying coffee, tea, and sugar the is certified Fair Trade. It’s because of the morality.
Bottom line is – if someone is going to trash Warren or Colson for being published by Zondervan because of Murdoch they also need to a) trash all Zondervan publications and b) start looking at the finances of all their dealings – how many of us have researched our 403(k)’s to see if we are invested in anything immoral?
Neil
Agreed!! Like i said Murdoch annoys me more then he should,its more personal…I’m totally OK with Rick talking to him as a friend or as a pastor though..
Anyhow i’m off to starbucks
Starbucks has a policy of providing Fair Trade coffe for you if you ask for it…
Neil
haha do they,i was teasing,but tks for the info
Sorry i took it off tread againnnn..
Going back to thread,i was amazed by Ingrid’s interview with the guy who was organizing this show (i think)..Oh man i felt for him,she sucker punched him,and then she and Warren were amazed he didn’t get back to her haaha