Miley Cyrus: the personificaton of the flesh?
Slice of Laodicea recently published a hit piece on Miley Cyrus, the hit musician and actress best known as Hannah Montana. The blog was inspired by an interview recently done by Christianity Today on the artist. Slice makes some pretty big statements of Cyrus, calling this 15 year-old artist the personification of the world and flesh. Pretty big shoes to fill for such a young girl. However, the author makes some large leaps in logic to make this story fit her agenda.
First, Slice equates Hannah profession and success with being in love with the world. Apparently if you are an actor, singer or dancer, and actually use your talent, you are in sin. I never understand why we hold artists who are followers of Christ to such a different standard. Imagine saying that a surgeon is in love with the world because they operate in a secular environment or work on non-believers. We would never do that. But that is exactly what we do with the artists in our faith communities. Here, the author claims that Cyrus is violating I John 2:15-17 with her career. Also, if you have seen Hannah Montana television shows or concerts, you would know that they are pretty squeaky clean. There aren’t any backup dancers shaking their rear ends on stage as the author would have you believe.
The author criticizes Cyrus’ lyrics in her song The Best of Both Worlds. She says that Cyrus is writing about having “the world and the flesh in all its deceptive glory and yet they believe you can still have God as well.†Had the author done some research, she would have known this has little to do with Cyrus’ philosophy on life, and more about her hit character, Hannah Montana. On the Disney Channel television show, Cyrus plays a normal girl who has a secret identity of being a hit teen singing sensation. This song was sung by her character. It speaks of having the best of both worlds – the normal 15 year-old girl and the hit singer, not the worldly showgirl and the holysaint. It is huge jumps to conclusions like this that show the lack of simple research in the ODMs writings.
Lastly, the author complains that Cyrus does not specifically mention Jesus, and therefore must be heretical or just plain sinful. First, we don’t know the full extent of the interview. We only get to see the segments that Christianity Today chooses to put in their publication. Second, Cyrus does mention her faith and involvement with God. I am still not too sure why the author feels is necessary to criticize her with such fervor.
I write all this because Cyrus is actually a part of my faith community. She is connected with our youth group and attends gatherings as much as she is able to. I know that Slice would also consider my church equally heretical and apostate, but it seems so sad to me that they would take the time to attack this 15 year-old girl who is truly trying to connect with Christ. It just does not seem like what Jesus would have us do with our time or resources.
![Image of The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31Jl6fhDLxL._SL75_.jpg "The Prodigal God (An Unabridged Production)[2-CD Set]; Recovering the Heart of the Christian Faith")
167 Comments(+Add)
Okay, first of all, the article seems to be focused on Miley’s father Billy Ray, and although quotes Miley, seems to be blaming her dad for everything, not Miley herself.
It’s great that there’s some Christian influence among teen music these days, with Miley Cyrus and the Jonas Brothers so popular. (It would be nice to hear Christ mentioned once in a while, but I won’t complain, I just want kids to have some good, healthy role models!)
I’m really beginning to understand the people who give up on the church completely based on their experiences with the church.
I can’t understand how you emergent types scream and cry about social justice (see Rob Bell’s rich) and you justify the christian moms spending $2000 on Hannah
Montana tickets; Money which is 200 times more than many impoverished people
around the world make in an entire month.
I think the worship of television stars is stupid, if she shakes her butt on TV inappropriately
I don’t care what she sings, that is wrong.
Of course, it is likely that some church building out there would allow her to come
in and do it with no dicernment at all…
sorry, 200 times more than in an entire year….
Tim, people leave the church most of the time because they are
disobedient to the Lord or unredeemed.
pastorboy,
I think that spending $2,000 on a Hannah Montana ticket is absurd. Unfortunately, the article was not about being stewards of our resources. It was a hit piece on Cyrus. If it was about how we should spend our money, there would be no need for this.
So they made the wrong point!
The christian moms who worship at the idol of HM, and allow their children to do so
should be the subject of that article.
I am also tired of celebrities (and others) who do not name the name of Jesus,
they just generalize the name God and we determine by that their faith is
real.
Saying I am a Christian and being one are two very different things, especially
in this culture
I don’t see where she is called the personification of the flesh
Yes, they did make the wrong point. That was why I wrote my article
That would be a good focus for the article, but that it isn’t HM’s fault. It is the parents. Again… no logical reason to criticize her.
Just so you can sleep well tonight, Cyrus worships Jesus as God. We have no clue what she said in that interview.
is slice down? i can’t get to it?
Was that sarcasm?
I honestly don’t sleep well when people I care about are not saved.
it was sarcasm. I am tired of people writing articles about people they really don’t care about but feel it necessary to write about them.
Unfortunately, when you are a celebrity, politician, public figure who
says they are a Christian, your life comes under a microscope.
Try being a Pastor in a small town…
Is anyone else having a problem loading SOL?
Yes, I am.
How convenient for you.
Really? I thought it was because too often there are disobedient or
or unredeemed people attacking people in the church
And sometimes people leave churches because of disobedient or unredeemed leadership…
Amen…that is true
I am more worried about them being born-again than what church they go to.
Let me guess, you’re for the children too.
Yawn
For the record, I don’t think this girl or her father are to blame for the ticket prices being sky-high. If I remember correctly, when these first tickets went on sale, brokers bought them all up. Apparently, there are people willing to pay an insane price to see her. I don’t really see what she can do about it, short of canceling the tour.
The point is that these are ‘christian moms’ according to the article.
I think that Rob Bell should speak to this in ‘Rich II’.
Tim, are you saying that I have no concern for people to get saved?
You have slandered me. I am offended. I think I will go beat up my dogs.
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a “Hannah Montana” show…but it’s obviously a pretty big deal. Big enough to lie and help your kids win tickets to one of her concerts.
(I’m not blaming the little Cyrus girl for that…before anyone accuses me of such)
Ughhh…I can’t believe I’m defending Hannah Montana…
Anyway, the article makes no such claim. The word “Christian” only appears once in the article, as I see it.
The ticket face value is set by the venue (with a minimum set by the management company sponsoring a tour – most often with no input from the artist), and – as noted – with the recent HM concerts then purchased and marked-up by scalpers/resellers.
I know a few moms at work that took their girls to the concert in Indy, but I don’t know that I would characterize them as “Christian moms”…
Reference the CT article
 The CT article says:
It just says “mothers”, not “Christian mothers”.
Even so, what other people do with their money is generally none of my business.
No Pastorboy, I’m saying you committed a non-sequiter.
So God, who wrote in His Word, that we should not love the world in 1 John
that if we love the world, the love of the Father is not in us…That God would tell
Miley that she should sing that song, even in character?
That is why God gave us His Word, so we would have the guidence to make
such decisions. Im glad she seeks God, but I wonder which god she is seeking.
Sounds like maybe Mosaic isn’t preaching 1 John…..
Sounds like someone should mind his own business and worry about raising his own kids and not everyone else’s. Seriously, if you don’t like this girl’s music, don’t buy it. I don’t even know if I’ve ever heard one of her songs. Personally, I still have hate in my heart for “Achey Breaky Heart”, so I wouldn’t expect musical genious to be passed down in the family.
If the best way pastors can spend their time is deconstructing lyrics and interviews of bubble gum pop artists, the Church is worse off than I thought. This is just ridiculous.
Sounds kinda like someone doesn’t have his fill of accusations for the day…
Actually, the “Best of Both Worlds” song is the premise song for her TV show, in which she plays a normal girl who is Miley Stewart to most people, but puts on a blonde wig and sings as “Hanna Montana”. She lives with her dad and brother (who both are in on the ruse), though her mother died sometime when she was young (though she shows up in flashbacks).
The “both worlds” are 1) as a normal HS girl, and 2) a singing star… There is no “deeper meaning” to the song…
You guys brought the topic up, not me…
I am simply addressing that y’all are claiming that she is a little Christian girl
that mean old Ingrid is attacking…
I am quoting her words, and questioning Erwin…and Nathan…
.
Would he have us pay $2000 for scalped tickets?
Would he have our kids idolize a singer?
Would he have godly parents promote such idolatry?
Miley should get back to her roots. I hear Tim’s church does concerts,
even if they are not Christian….She could do the community proud
and donate the scalped funds to Kenya!
So now, besides being a part time comedian you can divine
intentions?. Sweet. Can you tell me if Brett Favre intended
to lead that guy that way?
It must be Satan’s hairy hand.
Is that what I am doing? I just though people who would pay $2000
would indicate idolatry.
It is hard to win a game at home when your hands are around your
throat How many field goals does a guy have to miss to allow you to have
your storybook ending? Apparently three…
zing, PB.
Once again, this is another example of Ingrid sucking the life out of every simple, harmless diversion that’s out there.
You have to remember that over-the-top-flame-throwing hyperbole is Ingrid’s way to mobilize the troops. If she just said “there’s a show about a girl who dons a wig and leads a secret life as a teen singer, then blends back in with her friends at school”…(insert sfx of crickets chirping here) who would really care.
She could probably find, with a minimum of mental gymnastics, something wrong with Superman too. Here’s this guy who lives a life of deception..sneaks away from his employer at inoppurtune times, dresses up in some pretty snug and revealing tights and thinks he has the ability to save the planet. Now, how much overarching gall does that take?
Pastorboy,
The concerts we host are Christian, because they involve loving our neighbor.
Of course, it’d probably be easier for us if we just characterized everyone outside of our church as not worth the effort because they’re unredeemed and disobedient to God, but, it seems youv’e got that ground covered. But then again, since you’ve managed to judge what Mosaic does and does not teach without so much as setting foot in the same state I shouldn’t be surprised that your knowledge is so expansive.
Sorry, Mandy….
I just was responding to the latin…I hate latin.
My flesh, how I hate it
Dude, California is my state….
I was born and raised there…..
I have never stepped foot inside Mosaic, but I have heard McManus speak..
our denomination was enamored of him just like they were of
Rick Warren at one time.
You mischaracterize me, I believe everyone inside and outside the church
is worth the effort- the effort being giving them the truth of the Gospel.
You don’t save souls by providing space for a concert. God saves souls,
and he uses us as his mouthpieces to present the Gospel
Whoops…I said it again….
Sorry Joe.
And like I told mandy, I was responding in the flesh before,
cuz I hate latin. I am sorry
Gotta love this…
Let’s look at this 1 John 2: 15-16:
Now, talk radio seems really worldy… in fact with people like Howard Stern being who made talk radio as big as it is… we need really look at that genre.
1. To titilate audiences… does the host lie, slander or give misinformation?
2. Does the host “spin” people’s answers if to fit thier own view?
3. Does the show sensationalize anything?
4. Does it sound much different than the world?
I am sure there are more, anyone else?
iggy
pastorboy wrote:
I have never seen Rob Bell bash anyone. I doubt that he will start by bashing entertainers who have high ticket prices.
You “emergent types” are missing the point. When people pay hideous amounts for scalped tickets or idolize Miley, it’s her fault.
The same way that it’s Jesus’ fault when wrong things are done in His name.
P-BOY,
1. Miley Cyrus has NO control over how much some scalper sells her concert tickets on E-bay. Let’s say I sell tickets for my concert at $1 a piece. If Joe buys them all and sells them at $100 a piece, I still get $1 a ticket. I don’t have extra money for spending on Kenya or other charities.
2. Hannah Montana is NOT a “Christian artist”. She is an artist that is a Christian. There is a difference.
3. Again, why do we not hold other professionals to the same standard as we do artists. Is a Christian architect in love with the world if he build secular buildings? Is Miley Cyrus in love with the world if she plays a character as an actress?
4. Your jump to make strong statements about Mosaic, Erwin and me says alot.
Once again, Nate, not the point.
Point is that she claims to be a Christian, and ask God
for His direction in the songs she sings etc.
I wonder if God would guide her to sing these songs?
I wonder if God guides moms to pay scalpers ($2000) prices?
If she is a christian who is an artist, shouldn’t she refuse to
sing certain things that are in opposition to God’s word like
loving the world, and the things in the world?
I do question Mosaic, just like I question Saddleback. Ruphert Murdoch
claims to be a Christian member of Rick Warren’s church yet he
peddles smut. He represents Christ? Huh? Erwin and Rick should
come out and at the very least train their members about Bible basics,
and in Murdochs case perform some church discipline.
She can find the answer in His word, not based on feelings
Perhaps my biting sarcasm hit that salient point.
John,
Have you seen Hanna Montana?
If so please explain? If not, you have no reasoned ground for any form of criticism.
Remember, second hand stories are gossip (ie a sol piece)
From Rob Bell to Hannah Montana……..pretty big field for you to cover.
Will you do one thing for me? Please print out your comments on this thread………take them to a pastor over the age of 60 and ask them if your comments seem Christlike? Please let me know what you find out.
Can that Pastor be Ken Silva?
I am only commenting on the CT article, the ;hit’ piece, and the responses.
I wouldn’t waste one minute watching that drivel, my kids won’t even
watch it.
I would prefer using my time to come in here and get loved on by
you peeps.
You missed Doug Pagitt, Samir Salmonovic, Rupert Murdoch, and
Rick Warren and Erwin Mc manus
would God guide an architect to design buildings for secular businessmen that ask for his guidance?
SHE HAS NO CONTROL OVER SCALPERS!!!! These aren’t even Christian moms that are buying these tickets. They are just people.
Please show me where she sings about loving the world and loving things in the world. Where she talks about loving gossip, anger, hate, etc. We have already talked about the song in question.
PastorBoy, you seem to not be listening to anyone here. I don’t want to waist my time if you are going to bring up the same arguments without addressing our remarks.
cross your fingers… Slice is down ::grins mischievously::
He is only 51 or 52… as I recall… so nope not old enough.
iggy
Though the initial statement was facitious, if we controlled the prices
at Tim’s concert to show love to the community and her fan’s paid $2000
in this facitious scenario, we could send the money to Kenya.
I addressed that, but what she said is she seeks God for the songs she sings.
Really? all she has to do is look in the Bible for guideance. Clearly,
asking God for her leads to the wrong answer. Go to the Bible and obey
it.
Again, she was the one who stated she seeks God’s guidence.
Talk about an non sequitor or a straw man argument. Is the archetect
building a giant phallus for XXX Church? Then I would say he
is not seeking God, not the God I know, anyhow. Of course, many
contemporary ‘christian’ artists sing drivel and call it Christian…
not much difference.
4. Your jump to make strong statements about Mosaic, Erwin and me says alot.
about what? All I am saying is that Erwin should train his people better
That is what a Pastor is supposed to do.
How old are you Iggy?
Hmm…
:Gasp: The love of the Father is not in the Father!!!!??
See, I could write for Slice too.
PB, I think your definition of “the world” is royally screwed up. I’ll leave it to the Spirit and you to figure it out.
This conversation is beyond insane at this point.
Joe
Go Patriots!!! [also, I am sad for the Packers =( ]
Is Ken over 60?
And I guess it depends on whether or not you want an honest answer. The last thing most pastors need is for people to always agree with them. Take a risk. Openly risk by choosing someone outside your circle.
My post is an attempt to try and get you to seek first source material when you go after someone. It is always better to hear it from the horses mouth. Since everyone of us are biased (neutrality is a myth) it is always best to find out from the actual person what they said, believed, did.
As to ticket scalping……….I thought Jesus was a free market Capitalist. Arguing over what someone pays for something is pure old fashioned legalism.
One man’s necessity is another man’s foolishness. Anybody want to talk computers? Hey we all can get by with a 399.00 Dell, E-Machines special. If so………..if you have a more expensive computer are you not being covetous? Just following the logic here. How about your TV? What size is it? Isn’t 20 inch big enough? You mean you have an HDTV big screen? Is that not sin?
I can no think of any time it is proper to judge another man for what he has OR has not. That’s the Holy Spirit’s purview…….every time. Any pastor who meddles in those areas is meddling where he doesn’t belong.
If you disagree, please show me the verse that says when a price is too much? Or a screen size is too big? Or your hard drive is too big? Am I the only one who sees who foolish this line of thought is?
Bruce
Iggy is 82
I guess I am wrong, Miley’s lyrics ARE Christian…
They would fit right in at Lakewood Church with Joel Osteen!
Yep…
She sought the same God at Lakewood for this one!
Sorry bout the Pack, Joe!
I’m no Packers fan for sure, just a Farve fan wanting to see him at least go to the Super Bowl 1 more time; though I know he couldn’t beat my amazing high flying New England Patriots. 18-0, baby. Giants choke, Pats win it all.
Joe
That was super ‘worldly’ of me, I bet, huh? LOL
Joe
SO wait…I assume this means you watch football, and/or Television.
You’re in the flesh man…
Ahh you so worldly!
=)
PB,
The “Hanna Montana” song lyrics you’re quoting were farmed out by composers to Disney (which owns the rights to the show). While Miley Cyrus can sing her own music – “Hanna Montana” (the fictional character she plays) is a property of Disney, who maintains creative control…
You DO realize y’all are attacking a 15-year-old here as if she should have a M Div? Yes?
Chris L, is quoting oneself illegal…? If not…I re-submit this in light of your most recent comment which brings to light the utter ridiculousness of this conversation which is about bashing a 15 yr old Christian girl:
Joe
I’m out, g’night all.
Joe
I will say this thread even makes my head hurt!
iggy
Since those lyrics are someone’s protected property, you should probably only use a small passage instead of using it in its entirety without credit or permission.
Just something to note for the future.
Good point. Only the RIAA’s lawyers are more vicious than Disney’s lawyers.
Haha, For the record I was cheering for the Giants. I just couldn’t
think of anything else I wanted to know at that moment.
I hope not for good. I’ve got an article I’m working on that I
didn’t screen shot yet.
Pastorboy, I noticed you are being pummeled on this site that claims to be so open to dialogue… I just read a post from Rick F here:
Titled: Incredible Ignorance – http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
In it he says (regarding all this dialogue and useless debate):
…if it [the emergent conversation] cannot convert people it will at least waste the time of true believers through useless, meaningless, and pointless dialogue. How many of you waste your time discoursing with believers in the health and wealth movement? Not many and what is the reason? Because not only is it a waste of time, but the theology is so off base that it cannot be given any legitimacy at all. So must now the emergent movement be viewed. We should know by now that the entire movement is heading the wrong way and as of yet I have seen very few repent and return to solid Biblical theology.
Peter also said it quite well:
These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning.
Pastor Boy,
So God, who wrote in His Word, that we should not love the world in 1 John
I hope you don’t drive a car, or listen to the radio or use
toilet paper! Those are all of the world!
It is not Miley Cyrus’s problem if people idolize her. We all
have god’s in our lives. What is yours?
Personally, I can not believe I am admitting this, but Billy
Ray to be my hero in high school! I even went to his concert.
Milley is a very talented young lady and she is using her
talents! I think it is great!
1. Miley and her talentless dad are in it for the money. They dont preach the gospel
2. Her music and lyrics are throwaway material, i.e. garbage.
3. 99% of the audience could care less about her alleged christianity.I leave 1% as a margin for error, and I am being gracious in that.
4. People are sick of the church because they are sick of smarmy, postmodern/liberal and grossly immature white boys with too much time on their hands. That would include this blog.
5. The true intent for this waste of cyberspace is for Nathan to name drop. Miley goes to our youth group. Im impressed. Now there is cause boast. Paul would have been proud of you all. This blog has name dropped before, e.g. Rich Mullins Erwin McManus etc
We get it; you are smarter than us, and you know important people.
I know Jesus.
Excuse me while I get back to finishing my list of who should be in the lambs book.
Very good, shammah, this coming from the guy who suggested that having a security guard at the chruch in Arvada (which averted a greater tragedy) was evidence of the church trying to prevent God’s will…
Erica,
Sorry to say that your hermeneutic is way off. Is this how you folks
learn how to exegete the Word at Mars Hill? Rob Bell should quit
telling stories and sit down with you folks and teach you biblical
hermeneutics so you can read the Bible for yourselves and discover
the wealth of life-changing information and training found therin.
Using toilet paper and driving a car is not loving the world. Loving the world
would be worshipping the toilet paper, centering my life around the
toilet paper, being unwilling to live without the toilet paper.
Once again, Miley claims to seek God about what lyrics she should sing.
Apparently, her pastor has the same problem with training his
congregatnts that they can actually find answers in the scripture!!!
Maybe mullet-boy would be better advised to ‘train up his child
in the way she should go’ instead of riding her coattails!
Paul C,
Oh come on Paul…
If someone states something out of context do you let them just be… I doubt it. I get pummeled much worse by guys that are supposed to be much more mature spiritually that me….
I have been called all sorts of names and had people slander me right and left as I have confronted them with the sin of their slander and lies… but yet they do not repent of it.
Even when direct quotes are given PB overlooks them for his own slant on things… that is not looking at things with a critical eye, it is having an agenda to prove he is “right” and pre-judging before all the facts are in.
iggy
Memo to all Christians: Please, by all means, do NOT do anything that would ever be perceived as successful. If you do, please expect that fellow Christians will lead the party to crucify you…
PB,
What a wonderful way to turn that and try to get a rise by
taking a jab out Rob. Really, well done. I think the local 6th
grade class is creating an award for you.
Wait a minute…
Iggy, are you cross-blogging from a different topic?
Again if Pagitt says something VERY CLEARLY on one side, and then says
something different on another side….which side do we believe?
It all depends on the definition of universalism, as I explained.
I didn’t ignore, just asked about the definition. By the classic
definition, he is. By his own definition, he isn’t.
This thread just proves my suspicion some Christians will find something to complain about in everything.
Here’s another topic: peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. Surely these carbohydrate and saturated fat-laden foodstuffs represent the church’s giving in to its fleshy desire. Surely we take a stand against such food that doesn’t glorify God.
Its very rare that you see this kind of hubris, condescension, and bile all rolled up in one sentence. Well done pastorboy, you’ve got the skills to pay the bills.
Wow, Pastorboy. If your standard of judging a church is by taking single quotes of a congregant (it doesn’t really matter if it’s in context or not), and then extrapolating it out and broadbrushing, I guess comparisons of you, Ken and Fred Phelps really would not be that far out.
Perhaps, though, a charitable reading might yield something a little bit different….
Clearly, Miley would be leading the crucified/exchanged life if she would
be persecuted for her faith rather than her
lyrics or lack of clear christian (like using the name Jesus) testimony.
Then her persecution would be valued by Christ-
Christians, be sure NOT to take a stand for righteousness or proper
biblical interpretation, because the writers on c?n.info will crucify you.
Not my intent, I assure you. Simply another illustration of how some
Pastors are forsaking their God-given duties to shepherd their flock
instead using worldly wisdom and philosophies to keep them interested
rather than expositing the Word of God line by line and training their
congregation to do the same.
I will proudly receive the award framed by the sixth graders.
Now that Slice is back up, here’s an example of the Spirit-o-meter in action:
Sure, they mention God, but hey – no mention of Jesus – this is significant! (Please ignore that the Cyrus’ didn’t write the article, so we don’t know if they mentioned Jesus or not.)
“writhing aroud”, “so their daughters can see their idol shake her rear end on stage”, blah, blah, blah – how much untruth can one article contain?
Yeah, I know John. I know. You’re right. I get it.
Again, nothing new under the sun.
Amy Grant got bashed for putting out a mainstream effort that was well-received, and appearing in videos with a man to whom she wasn’t married. And then later divorcing her husband and marrying a country singer.
Aretha – How dare she sing gospel music–in a church?!
Elvis – How dare he sing gospel music and hymns?
Pat Boone – He wore a leather vest with nothing on underneath in public. Obviously embracing a worldly S&M lifestyle.
So now we have a young woman being held accountable for other people’s poor judgement and behavior. Did the witch hunts ever cease?
When I receive the award for this, Tim, I will mention you in my acceptance
speech. “If it were not for c?n .info, I wouldn’t know what bile, hubris,
and condescention was. Then Tim showed me latin words, Chris L taught me
Hebrew, and iggy showed me two meanings of Universalism. Thank you!
And you don’t think Amy Grant should have been persecuted
for committing adultery? How about her new Husband? were not
four lives destroyed? Has there been any repentance?
BAD comparison.
Ironically, PB, Rob Bell is currently taking his congregation line-by-line through the book of Philippians, and training his congregation to do the same…
Also, the first series he taught was a similar study of the book of Leviticus…
Actually, she is being crucified for not leveraging her faith from a broad stage. As previously noted, “Hanna Montana” is scripted and controlled by Disney. You have no idea, whatsoever, what she does when she’s not on stage. As for “not mentioning Jesus” in the article (which Ingrid is flipping over) – you (and Ingrid) have no idea whether she mentioned him in the interview for the article, either (besides, which, I didn’t realize that mentioning God was such an inconsequential thing).
You know, though, thinking back, it’s too bad that Queen Esther was such a failure – she had a place of prominence and only used it once to further God’s kingdom. I suppose though, we can give her a pass on not mentioning Jesus, since he hadn’t been born yet…
So it’s the church’s job to persecute people when they sin? Here all this time I thought we were welcome sinners and lovingly point them to the cross. Silly me.
No – they were just “rightly dividing the Word” and “contending for the faith”, sandman…
I know that she goes to ‘church’ when she can in her busy
schedule. That says a lot right there (of course, it is only
Mosaic)
She is an example to a generation of teenagers…an example of how
you can call on a generic God, get success and all the trappings
that the world has to offer, a cross-less christianity which is a
powerless christianity, and you can go to church when your
schedule allows and still be okay with the generic god!
This is the same thing that so many kids who are allowed by
their parents to be on traveling sports teams do- they allow the sports
idol to take over their love of God and His command not to forsake
the assembling together. And Miley is right there leading
the charge.
Persecuted? No. I didn’t hear anyone condoning it. Rather, it was the contuned years of din that followed. It was a VERY sad situation that was a result of sin.
Most definitely, according to a number of folks close to the situation, and from her own lips, as well, in a very public and humble manner. Several years later, at one of her first (if not her first) public appearance after the divorce & aftermath, she was a VERY different person (in a good way) and her persona was nothing like what it used to be.
My mistake. I thought Amy claimed to be a Christian. I though Vince Gill
did also. Must be sitting in the same Franklin, TN church that Mullet
Boy went to. They must not practice church discipline, or else Amy and
Vince just didn’t submit to it.
What has ever happened to restorative church discipline, anyway?
I don’t think anyone mentioned what she does when she’s not in town. I guess I didn’t realize that it was a Christian’s duty to return home every week to your home church, even if you’re 2000 miles away from it on Saturday night…
I need to get a new copy of II Opinions, as my old one didn’t contain that commandment…
Are you on the board of elders at the church in Franklin, TN? Do you know what occurred in regards to this? Do you?
Pastorboy – you are upset about a 15 year old girl that you’ve never met or know nothing about. Why don’t you go out and work with the teens in your community, rather then critique someone you don’t know.
The word persecute was not the right word to use, I don’t think we
should persecute anybody. I meant to use the word discipline.
I am just waiting for the freudian slip people to persecute me.
I think I saw the word persecute in another post and I just used it
No, Amy Grant should NOT be persecuted, nor should Miley Cyrus.
They should be lovingly disciplined and restored.
Shamma lama ding dong,
Was there any name dropping in this article? I did not mention the name of my church, who the pastor is, or where we are located. Ironically, it is the ODMs who do more name dropping when it comes to me. They are the ones who want to quickly tie me to Erwin.
Pastor Boy,
I see no problem with the lyrics you posted. Is she not talking about changing her attitude to make like more enjoyable? My dad always told me to give myself an “attitude check” and turn my frown upside down. Must we over theologize everything?
Chris, Maybe if she didn’t take Saturday night gigs 2000 miles away
it might better reflect the ‘dying to self’ that all Christians should
be practicing….
I don’t know what happened in Amy Grant’s situation, but why should you be bothered with things like facts. I’ve already pointed out how you misquoted the article to fit your agenda earlier in this thread. It seems to me to rail against all this stuff is really useless. You can vote with your wallet, so to speak. What does it gain you having a vendetta against these artists?
Nathan,
Last Time. She says in the article at CT that she seeks God about the
songs that she sings. My question: do her lyrics reflect her christian
character, or some cotton candy feel good christ-less theology
(view of God)that this interview promotes?
I think it might be valuable to ask the question if Miley did mention Jesus
in the article, why didn’t CT mention it? Is CT the problem and not
Miley?
Pastorboy,
she wouldn’t… say… have a road pastor, or stay in touch with her youth workers here in LA, now would she? That would mean she is actually doing what she should… and we don’t want to give her the benefit of a doubt.
Your smug comments about Mosaic are very revealing of your character. I am sure that you have done extensive research on it, visited it and then made your conclusions.
And now we see the uselessness of expository Bible study when the human heart sees Xtianity as just another way to create a tiered system of humanness.
So now you’re judging everyone’s career path for them. I guess the only acceptable vocation for a Christian is one where he or she never has to travel. The amount of self-righteousness in your posts is astounding.
please tell me you are joking. This all has to be one big practical joke.
Pastorboy – if someone in your congregation had a successful teen that meant that the family or the teen couldn’t be in church every Sunday, would you blog about how awful they were?
I haven’t been to Rick’s site in a while. I saw this quote
it’s good to see he stopped making accusations without
backing it up.
Looks like I can add Rick to the people who say I’ve gone
to the dark side.
Rick has unfortunately gone a long way backwards… It seems that he is content with attacking other.
I was saddened to read his last few things…
iggy
One more nugget of wisdom from Rick.
Joe,
there is a huge difference between what RW and Copeland teach as well as what Copeland and McLaren teach and to toss Rob Bell in there seem just carless.
this gross overgeneralation seems lost on many… It seems that there is not care to whether what is stated is true as long as they “feel” that it is true.
iggy
Iggy,
Truth be told, I don’t care if he say Rob is a heretic. Get in
line, there’s a lot of people that call say that. I just think
it’s funny that he says “all who espouse their ministries”
I have a comment on my blog where he called me a
brother. I guess not anymore.
That’s sad, I really liked Rick
You are kidding, Right?
Actually, I would approach them like it says in Matthew 18.
Billy Ray had a choice when this was presented to him. He chose to
leave his community and his church to chase Miley’s chosen path
I thought Christian Dads were supposed to guide their kids, and
bring them up in the way they should go, not uproot their
family and move 2500 miles away to a new place so that they can
chase the success god and serve him.
Maybe she has a road pastor, I don’t know. But that is still
forsaking the fellowship of the church for success. I think it sends a
wrong message to the traveling team mom who cannot afford
a road pastor.
Around here, in the summer it is the ‘cabin god’ that reduces
congregations and fellowship. Same problem, this society places a
premium on comfort and self rather than self-sacrifice. Miley is just
one of many poster-children.
Wow and to think I missed all this because I was watching football!
I find some…what’s the word…Oh yeah…LEGALISM! going on!
So if I followed all of this right.
Miley is not a christian, she’s in if for the money, she’s responsible for “Supply and demand” economics, and her dad wrote a song that I still can’t get out of my head 15 years later. Did I miss anything? Did she drown a puppy?
Nathan is a name dropping, emergent, apologist for Erwin McManus.
Joe M. is a New England Fan! Shocking really!
Well I just have one question? If Miley isn’t a christian because she doesn’t say “Jesus” in an interview and she doesn’t send all her money to Darfur; is Bono now a Christian because he does talk about Jesus and he sends a lot of money to Africa?
I just want to know how the “Librarians of the Lambs book of Life” categorize everyone.
I just loved that Ingrid called her the personification of the flesh. That was the best part
amazing
When in the history of the world hasn’t this been the case?
Actually, a case can be made that much of the guilt that Christians feel from “worldliness” is something that was inherited from our Greek Gnostic heritage. The Jewish culture that the Bible was written in, was actually very “earthy” in a lot of ways. Actually, to Jews, to not enjoy the gifts God has given us in this life was actually considered sinful.
Of course anything can become an idol if not kept in proper perspective. But Christians using guilt and enforcing a type aescetism isn’t the remedy for this.
Wow, so I guess mentioning God (Jesus’ father) just doesn’t cut it any more…
Unfortunately, I think Bono
(who I used to be a huge fan of) is a universalist.
You all are missing my point (not the point)
I don’t think this piece (CT’s or SOL’s) was complete, I think it (Miley’s life)
is a illustration, a sad commentary on, contemporary American
christianity, which is powerless, cross-less, and Christ-less.
I think by her example, american christian girls (and boys) should
feel free to grab all the gusto they can in the name of god and then
proceed to give this generic god thanks while demonstrating that he or
she is not worth thanking, nor are his followers worth hanging out
with and worshipping with regularly.
Thats what I get from the CT article. It is a sad commentary, really
I sleep all night and you all still are here
Here is the core problem. Fundamentalism. And this discussion is a reminder that you can not reason with most Fundamentalists.
My wife was reading some of the comments last night. She asked “why do people write things like that? what is wrong with them?”
I told her these type of people have a little box where everything they believe and practice fits neatly inside. ANYTHING that is different or at odds with what is in their box is considered a threat. SO, the react, often violently.
Some of us get baited into having these discussions. We THINK we can reason with these people. How’d it work out ?
Have you ever wondered………..if according to 1 John that love of the brethren is a trait of those who follow Christ…………where that leaves some folks? I realize that they write off most of Christianity as “unsaved” but we all know that is delusional.
It is funny……….Amy Grant……….Hannah Montana………..30 years apart…………..same lame, evil, vicious attacks being made. 30 years ago I was the one making the attacks on Amy Grant, so I remind myself hateful fundamentalists can change.
Bruce
If we could only know for sure then we can characterize him as unsaved, worldly, unrepentant, and a money hungry rock star who is the personfication of the flesh.
Of course then we would usurp God and his position all the while harping on others for not really honoring God.
Bruce,
Yeah, I’ve let myself get baited in this thread too much. I keep telling myself just ignore him, but then he says something more ridiculous.
I mean I’m defending Hannah frickin’ Montana! Billy Ray Cyrus’ spawn! That’s just messed up.
I remember when I was a more of a Fundie in college. I would try to bait atheists and others into argument a lot. There’s something addictive about proving yourself right.
Phil…
It is called “self rightousness”…
iggy
Yeah I mean….Go Patriots. You know? If we’re still talking Hannah Montanna, we might as well just talk about how awesome the Pats are.
Because they are. I’ll argue about that! I suppose eventually someone would come in and start the slandering and “Fooooseeballll is dah debil!!!” lines…
Which would be fun.
Joe
This is all really stunning.
Jesus as he’s being tortured to death says, “forgive them father for they know not what they do.”
Now some of his followers bring up the sin of Amy Grant from, what, decades ago, in order to smear an adolescent girl from the anonymous comfort of their keyboards.
Phil,
Yep. I have never watched Hannah Montana nor have I been to her concert. Bubble gum music not my cup of tea
There is an underlying issue…
success=compromise
success=worldliness
Check out the size of the Churches of many of the pastors are most critical………..small congregations (and there is nothing wrong with that, and I am not suggesting size is what matters) They convince themselves that their church is small (and what pastor doesn’t want his church to get bigger)because they are being faithful.
They never ask themselves the question ‘Is our Church small because we are against everything?”
Some things matter. Hannah Montana? She will be a footnote in music history 30 years from now.
Now, let’s listen to some real rock and roll
Bruce
Yeah like……BOSTON
It’s been such a longggg timeeeee….
Joe
Another Adam Sandler Quote?
MAN you are good Martino.
now dats high quality h20
he he he he he he he spit in da coola
ma mama ma mama mamama said
Go Giants! (Not that I’m a NY fan, just that I think that if the Pats went 0-16 in a season, it would still not be good enough
I have a Squeezbox, which is a media controller for music, internet radio, etc. I just crossed the 20,000 song plateau on the server.
When we put it on random it is quite bizarre:
Rod Stewart
The Beatles
Radiohead
Allison Krauss
The Kingsman Quartet
Kenny Chesney
Lucinda Williams
Third Day
Casting Crowns
Sheryl Crowe
(that’s a typical random selection)
We subscribe to, and taught our children…………there is good music and bad music. I do not make the christian/secular distinction. Some of the most profound songs (to me) have been from the non-Christian world (i.e GooGoo Dolls-Better Days, Finger Eleven-One Thing, U2-I haven’t found what I am Looking For)
Music is so subjective. Each person has his likes and dislikes. I subscribe to Paste Magazine and there is a sampler CD in each issue. I listen to some of it and I say “who in their right mind would listen to that stuff?” I mention it to one of my grown sons and they say “Hey they do great stuff!” I say “no class”
My motto on music………each to his own.
Pastorboy,
Re: your comment at 10:42 a.m.
Let me say at the outset that I don’t mean to get in your face on this, but just trying to think out your comment in practical applications.
While you later express regret for the use of the word “persecute,”it’s curious you were the one to use it in the first place, so be prepared to own it.
Even when you switch to church discipline, it still seems you want to enact your own standard of making people pay until you decide you’re ready to let God love them [again].
Do you actively persecute all the divorced members of your church who remarry? Do you give them the Hester Prynne treatment?
Someone who had an abortion?
How about the ones who are really overweight?
How about pastors who work on Sunday?
How about people who drink but don’t get drunk?
Men who neglect their families?
Teens doing sex stuff short of intercourse?
Pants too tight, skirts too short, hair too long?
People who may have missed a Sunday service, but are found later in the day shopping, not on their deathbeds?
Is it a standard practice of yours to root around for sin in other people’s lives, lock onto it and never let it go?
Examine your own motives, man. I don’t need to be a part of what’s going on between Amy, Vince and God. If they’ve gone to God with it, it’s in the sea of His forgetfulness, with a NO FISHING sign posted. From your own comments, I wonder why you need to be such a part of it.
QFT.
It smacks of drawing up battle lines, if you’re not on the ODM’s side then they’ll do whatever it takes to smack the crap out of you, including bringing up someone else’s sin that occurred decades ago that they have no clue what has gone with that person in the mean time.
youre right, the word was pummeled not persecuted.
sorry for using the wrong word. I still don’t think people should be
persecuted, unless it is for doing what is right.
??????
iggy
If I am preaching and living Jesus, Iggy, I will be persecuted. Jesus promised.
Ok, then do that to Billy and Miley.
Do you have people in your church who have to be away for military or business? Do you chase after them with Matthew 18?
You’ll also be persecuted for being a jerk if you’re not rich or powerful.
In fact, you admitted to persecuting Christians who sin, does that mean then that they are preaching and living Jesus because they’re being persecuted?
Or how about the individuals who are persecuted for something entirely unrelated to Xtianity? For example, Buddhists who live in Muslim countries, are they being persecuted for preaching and living Jesus?
Using perceived persecution as a benchmark for holiness is ridiculous, and, at the least, an abuse of scripture.
This is why “kingdom people” don’t join the military. Relax
EVERYBODY, right now, I’m only kidding.
IMHO the root of this spat is the nature of the article. As I understand the article is in Today’s Christian Woman. Admittedly, I am not an expert on the publication but it is a sister publication to Christianity Today and the article is on it’s website. In that it is an explicitly Christian magazine one would expect that the article would present the Cyrus family’s faith in Christ as opposed to a more general unspecific faith. However, the article reads like it was from a more generic publication where one would expect more general terms like faith with out reference to what that really meant. There are many celebrities that talk about faith and God but don’t mean by those what Christians mean.
Miley and Billy Ray may have a faith in Christ but the article does not communicate that. As usually, Slice makes a makes more of what the article states or does not state than is warranted. The real “scandal “is that an article that focuses so little on faith in Christ would be printed in an explicitly Christian magazine. That is sad because they are either highlighting people who aren’t truly devoted to Christ(I am not making that judgment but merely observing the article does not communicate that they have a faith in Christ.) or expressing their true devotion to Christ in terms that do not convey that devotion and that would be sad in an explicitly Christian publication. Maybe Slice should be picking at TCW and not the Cyrus family.
There is a difference in being a bully and abusing others… the flip side is what is missing…
Bruce, I subscribe to Paste too. It’s the only magazine I
subscribe to anymore in this “hard michigan economy.”
(people at our church say that every sunday.)
PB, Do you really think referring to BRC as “the mullet man”
helps the conversation? You haven’t shown much grace or
love on this thread whatsoever.
Mandy…
BRC hasn’t had a mullet for quite a while… so it seems that PB misses he is out of date… and is passing off info again ; )
iggy
C’mon, Chris. You miss the point again. If CT didn’t mention Jesus in the article, that’s Miley’s fault.
Same as if it’s God’s fault when any error is made when a message is preached.
Man, I really thought you were smarter than this.
I try not to interact with quote marks as they usually display the writer’s alleged ability to read others’ hearts, so I won’t say anything about that part. I interviewed Rebecca St James when she was just a bit older than Miley is now. Her busy schedule prevented her from getting to church as much as she’d like, too. She also had it more together at 17 than many Christian adults. So actually, one’s schedule conflicting with officially-sanctioned Sunday-morning Church Services ™ doesn’t say nearly as much as you think.
iggy,
i know. that’s why I think it brings nothing to the
conversation, and doesn’t show grace..
Mandy,
Glad you could understand what I wrote… I missed a word…
“bad” should have been before “info”…
iggy
Let’s remember that those who have a problem with here Church attendance most likely subscribe to the “you must go to Church every time the doors are open” thinking.
Uh, we are the Church. Just because there is a meeting going on doesn’t mean I have to be there. Yes, we need the fellowship of the saints. Whose to say she doesn’t get that on her tour bus?
The Church is much broader than Sunday Morning at 11 I hope so anyway cuz Sunday morning at 11 can be a pretty depressing time.
Billy Ray does not have a mullet?
Oh now I am DEFINITELY no longer a fan.
Rock the Mullet!
(Iggy)
“Backwards” by your definition, “forwards” by mine.
Definitely UPHILL.
Amy,
Forward into darkness would fit mine also… = )
See, I knew you had an agenda… thanks for admitting it! = )
iggy
Sham…
1. Miley and her talentless dad are in it for the money. They dont preach the gospel –
so? my plumber is a Christian, is in it for the money, and does not preach the Gospel…
2. Her music and lyrics are throwaway material, i.e. garbage -
so?
3. 99% of the audience could care less about her alleged christianity.I leave 1% as a margin for error, and I am being gracious in that.
so? 99% of the people who hire by my plumber are not Christians…
4. People are sick of the church because they are sick of smarmy, postmodern/liberal and grossly immature white boys with too much time on their hands. That would include this blog.
Hmmm… “immature” – I love irony.
5. The true intent for this waste of cyberspace is for Nathan to name drop. Miley goes to our youth group. Im impressed. Now there is cause boast. Paul would have been proud of you all. This blog has name dropped before, e.g. Rich Mullins Erwin McManus etc
We get it; you are smarter than us, and you know important people.
I know Jesus.
RATS – we’ve found out boys!
Neil
Neil,
that was beautiful.
Thread Hijack Question:
Did Jesus really mean that we would be persecuted if we preached the Gospel or lived Jesus?
Or did he mean “Don’t be surprised if…” or even “Expect to be…”
Too often I see it as some kind of litmus test. Kinda the noncharismatic version of speaking on togues. If so, I pretty much fail – for I’m in a vocational ministry, yet suffer nothing I would consider persecution.
Neil
OK – now that I asked the above question… I’ll go read the post that addresses it – so, never mind…
I think scare quotes are a passive aggressive way of calling someone a liar.
“They claim the bible is ‘inspired’ but who knows what that really means.”
“They claim to go to a ‘Christian’ church but who really knows.”
It’s a shame really. Either have the guts to call someone a liar or drop the scare quotes.
If this thread stopped, it would not hurt my achy breaky heart… yes, my achy breaky heart…
iggy
Did he have the Mullet when he sung that?
That Mullett ROCKED!
Ouch, you people. You’re offending others and taking offence. Miley Cyrus is a Christian in Hollywood! She’s a light shining in the darkness. I love her show and like my children to watch it as there’s nothing distasteful about it. Here’s an idea- how about praying for Miley and her father. Pray that God will use them mightily, that he would grant them favour and open doors of opportunity for them to spread the gospel. It’s more constructive than nit picking and whining about concert ticket prices, whining that she doesn’t come across as “Christian” in her songs and bash everyone over the head with her bible.
With love,
Sally in Australia
Sally, I think you missed the part where we are standing up
for Miley Cyrus
Sally,
The point some of us tried to point out was exactly what you stated… In fact I thought that to attack a little 15 y/o girl who IS a Christian in Hollywood should be applauded in contrast to the Disney designed Brittney (lose your kids) Spears who can show the underbelly of Hollywood.
There is not that much “good” out there, and if there is something that walks that thin line I really don’t understand those who must attack those that do walk it as not walking it to THEIR standard instead of letting them trust God and encourage them.
Be blessed,
iggy
You guys resurected this post just like someone resurrected Walter Martin to
bash him…AMAZING!
the athor should be ashamed of of her self or him self just because hannah montana does not metion jesus or god does not
she is a dirty sinnger. she is a very clean sinnger i am very disapointed and i am never coming to this website!!!!!!!!!!
lulu -
Like Sally, I’m not sure you read the post – we DEFENDED Ms. Cyrus…
PB – we didn’t resurrect the post (nor did we bash Dr. Martin), there was a comment on it this morning that was responded to…
PB,
Sally came and commented this morning… so get a grip K?
iggy
Guys…don’t you get it?
It’s all been a ploy to get you to say “we’re defending Miley Cyrus”, so that this can be used against you later.
Duh.
Joe