much older than you thought

Posted by Brendt on Dec 31st, 2007
2007
Dec 31

I’m going to use the consumption of alcohol as an example here. If you are of the mind that every Scriptural reference to “wine” is really unfermented grape juice, then mentally substitute another example. If you can’t think of any, then I’m quite worried for you.

Need a few extra boundaries in your life? Totally understandable. With the exception of a sip of champagne at my aunt’s wedding, I haven’t ever knowingly consumed alcohol. I grew up in “grape juice” circles, and don’t want to unnecessarily offend my friends that are still in those circles, but that’s not the primary reason. To be honest, the main reason that I don’t drink is that I don’t know if I can handle it. Who knows? I may not have an addictive personality, but I’d hate to find out the hard way that I do.

I find nowhere in Scripture that forbids all consumption of alcohol. But for me, personally (and by “personally”, I mean “personally”), that’s the standard.

A few interesting Scriptures (emphasis mine):

Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

Genesis 3:2-3
And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”

Genesis 3:11
And [God] said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

At the risk of getting a Sesame Street tune stuck in your head, one of these things is not like the others. In the first reference, God gives a command, and in the last, He references that command. But in the middle passage — let’s be honest here — Eve lies about God.

Which leads me to a sidebar: If I interpret this passage correctly, the first human sin was not the consumption of the forbidden fruit or even the pride or lust that led to that consumption. Rather, it would seem that the first human sin was Eve’s lie about God. If someone has Scriptural reference to refute that, I’ll be glad to back off it.

Note that Eve did not say, “God said not to eat it, and I’m not even gonna touch it, because I know that I can’t eat what I don’t touch.” No, she ascribed to God something that He never said. I have to wonder if the serpent’s deception didn’t get easier with that statement, because she was already half-way “there”.

And so, here we see that legalism is older than dirt. It wasn’t invented in the 1950s by some preacher to keep his people from going to see Doris Day movies.

Now, granted, legalism often involves more than ascribing to God what He never said. It also involves imposing your personal extra-Biblical standards on others. But in some sense, is this not really the same thing? Perhaps I am not so bold as to quote from the book of Hezekiah. But if I put my personal standards on your life, am I not either claiming divine revelation and an open Canon, or at least claiming that God has told me what He wants for your life?

Seems that either way, you’re lying about God — something we might wanna do less of.

An enemy of Jesus? *updated*

Posted by Tim Reed, Owosso MI on Dec 31st, 2007
2007
Dec 31

*Update*
As Ingrid has updated the post linked to we can assume she has seen this. In continuing with her deceptiveness she has not acknowledged the facts surrounding the quote in any way. I did not just remove that post. I removed myself from the forum because the forum was getting spammed up by her followers. I figured if I removed myself, that removed their motivation, and so the users of the forum could go on in relative peace.

By now many of you have probably read the quote dug up by Ingrid which causes her to call me an “enemy of Jesus”. Let me add some context around this quote.

First, in the game mentioned I was playing the part of a bad guy. It was a role playing game in which I was the dictator of a nation which was expanding its power via war against innocent, non-aggressive democracy. As a result I was acting like a bad guy.

Secondly, soon after I posted that I was IMed by a friend of mine telling me I had gone overboard, at the same time I was messaged by one of the game administrator’s telling me the same thing. I apologized to the administrator, and to the person I sent the message to, as well as started a new nation which wasn’t part of the evil dictator coalition, in order to get a fresh start. I have also changed the way I play these games. The post which Ingrid referenced was over a year and a half old.

The reality is that I have played games like this longer than I have been a part of the kingdom of God. The way I played these games was a holdover from that time. Through the gentle confrontation of a brother I have repented and corrected the way I play.

But there’s some conclusions we can draw from Ingrid’s “journalism”:

Ingrid and the other watchkitties are inherently dishonest in the way they write.
In order to find that post Ingrid had to plow through a year and a half of posts on that board. That means she also had to have read my extensive defenses of the foundations of Christianity when our board was “invaded” by several atheists. She also had to completely ignore the encouragements, prayers, and devotions I’ve posted on there. In other words, she took .0004% of my total work and concluded that I’m an “enemy of Jesus”. With enemies like me Jesus doesn’t need friends.

Ingrid is a hypocrite
Earlier Ingrid linked to a post by Jim Bublitz in which he criticized me for spending too much time online. Ingrid read a year and a half of posts in order to craft a hit piece. If that’s not spending too much time online what is?

The Watchkitties do not preach the gospel
Instead of seeing sin as something covered by grace and the sinner reconciled to God by Jesus Christ, they see sin (or rather, sin of everyone but themselves) as an enemy of the gospel, instead of what the gospel is there for. Their attitude reveals that Jesus isn’t their savior, he’s just a way to separate who’s in with the in crowd.