When I fart in Wittenberg they smell it in Rome.
Although it nice to know I’ve got such a dedicated following.
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42 Comments(+Add)
They used to say they only called out pastors of large churches who were in the public eye. What cracks me up is Mr. Burblitz says,
Looks like his own definitions are widening somewhat. And that’s the old truth there.
Joe,
I’ll let you know when Rick Warren calls me up to ask for advise.
It impresses me to see how much these alleged misgivings are foisted upon said people group by another, for what happens at the end of the day is the “innocent†party winds up entertaining said misgivings more than those allegedly guilty.
congrats, Tim.
I think it’s a real badge of honor.
I’m not sure I follow the poit of the CRN complaint? Tim spending too much time online? Does he have a potty mouth?
This whole potty mouth issue is nothing more than wild eye fundamentalism. The debate never ends.
While I may not use the language that Tim uses I may use language than Tim doesn’t use. Is there a book somewhere that gives the accepted Christian words?
I remember a former Church member getting upset with my use of bywords. On to another subject…he said it to me “so and so takes that to the hilt” The guy did what he accused me of and didn’t even know it. He had always “talked” like that.
The Bible condemns taking God’s name in vain. Certainly some language may be inappropriate depending on the circumstance but the language police are nothing more than (gonna call a name here) pharisee’s.
Tim, how long have you been in Owosso? I preached a revival in Owosso in 2003. Nice community. I live about 2 -2 1/2 hrs from Owosso.
Bruce
I’ve been here 2 1/2 years. Its kind of funny how rife MI is with so many of the CRN.info commenters and contributers.
And the language issue strikes me as remarkably hilarious in this case, there’s no addressing of what I was actually pointing out just the reflexive recoiling at what is today PG language (if one were to classify language in the terms of this world, rather than how God would).
I am in Ohio but close enough to Michigan to “smell” it on a good day
This is my favorite line:
They appear to have endless time on their hands for “web arguing”
Hehe.
Do they realize the irony? The realize that they are “web arguing” while attacking someone else for “web arguing?”
And the fact that Ken Silva may be the biggest “web arguing” pastor out there seems to escape their attention.
Ah I’m from Ohio originally, I’ve become used to the smell.
(I have a dirty secret to share.)
(Shame is mine.)
I absolutely can’t follow what Chad wrote. Perhaps it’s the use of “said.” I don’t know.
Sorry.
Oh, never mind.
I just visited Chad’s site. I understand why I don’t understand.
Welcome to the club, Tim! Join me and Nathan with Rick Warren, Andy Stanley, Rob Bell, Erwin McManus and the rest of the folk the watchdoggies love to hate…
How long will it take Julie and the other guys to join us in the roll?
Tim,
Ignoring CRN for the moment, I think Old Truth had a valid point with the name calling (not in the “bad language” sense but the tearing down sense) and the posting without saying who you really are. Now, I’m much too lazy to actually follow up with any of that to see if it’s true, but if it is, it’s a valid point. Those are things that are frowned upon around here and are counterproductive. Plus, your whole point with the language thing is that we shouldn’t use our words to tear people up (even words that are acceptable) and yet you’ve taken to doing that recently.
Now if it isn’t true, well then I’ve just wasted five minutes and you can ignore me. Like usual.
Where’s you get the blasphemous idea that a hero of the faith ever passed gas?
Christian,
I’ve explained several times about the “anonymous” bit.
But lets be honest, the posts linked to I was being critical of them for being jerkholes. Or just plain old jerks. Or big meanies. Or cranky pants. Or … well whatever you want to term them. I could have used much harsher language, I could have used much less harsh language, but the same critique is there. I believe this is a legit critique, and one I probably won’t stop making as long as its valid.
Julie,
There was a whole lot of smart stuff going on there… I was a bit lost myself… but it looked interesting… when I get a college education I might try to go there again and give it another try.
= )
iggy
As if I need that in my life.
Oh wait, I forgot – the “Prairie Princess” is already on Jim’s roll…
True dat.
Tim,
You assume I read everything you write. I have no idea what you’ve said about the anonymous bit.
And just because your critique is valid, that doesn’t make the approach proper. I distinctly remember you criticizing ODMs for doing the very thing you are accused of doing here. Possibly with much less hatred in the tone of the language, I don’t know. Like I said, I’m too lazy to follow through.
This is, sadly, my six-word memoir (although without the contraction, it would not qualify).
I think the idea of edifying while disagreeing, though extremely tough, is a good thing for me to remember.
The word/phrase I really hate: Pie-hole. As in, “shut yer pie-hole.” Absolutely revolting.
Tim,
But only I the one and only iggy is Ken’s proclaimed Nemesis!
Bwaaaahhhaaaahhahaaaahahaaahaaaa… aa.. cough…. aha… ~sputter~…a…wheeze… pffft…
Oops! excuse me I exerted myself too much.
iggy
BTW, the discussion group was before the “ministries” which is still going on and growing with as part of the “ministries” the Internet radio station Ken mentions… so his “well researched missive” on me, is well “missing much of the facts” as the discussion group was an is a very small part and more of a friends connection that part of the “ministries” not mentioned. It is not a big ministry but it is global.
Julie and Christian,
On the first issue, I agree on idea of trying to be edifying while disagreeing, though it is often difficult in practice.
Ironically, the second issue linked to Tim – the accusations of trying to hide behind anonymity – require a level of disingenuity or an IQ below room temperature to actually believe. So, when you’ve got folks who are purposely disagreeable and critical, words like “idiot” and “jerk” are pretty accurate, and kinder descriptions are hard to come by.
Any neutral party could see that Tim was not trying to hide behind anonymity, particularly in how freely he gave information about himself (I still have some internet handles out there that are 10 years old which don’t immediately identify me, but which aren’t attempts to hide). So to suggest this is even in the same ballpark as consistently being so ashamed of your work as to not even sign your name to it (or to disavow some culpability as a “general” editor), requires a certain level of idiocy or dishonesty to begin with.
So how long do you assume good faith, particularly when such assumption is completely defied by and and all evidence present?
Being stabbed in the heart many times, and letting it repeatedly happen, is a great tenderizer.
I think you can resist words like “jerk” and, uh “pie-hole” (I hate it!) and not imply that you are believing anything in good faith.
For example: You idiot.
Or: Your take on my activities is clearly disingenuous and reveals a serious character flaw.
Why do we have to assume good faith? Is being polite or direct or controlled an assumption of “good faith” or just being the better person?
Frankly, I assume the worst about certain ODM authors and have very little fairy-dust inoculated ideals about their desire for truthiness, but I don’t have to let that opinion show via insults. I can do it by being erudite, direct, or, my personal favorite, ignoring their existence.
I think the assumption that by not taking it to the mattresses, people will assume we’re being snookered by someones assault on our integrity, honesty, or abilities is often just an excuse to release the verbal hounds. Who cares if people think we’re snookered? That we’re not defending ourselves?
My biggest moments of horrifying “why didn’t you just shut-up, Julie” thoughts are those when I forgot to defend ideas or concepts or truth and worried about defending myself.
Tenderizer. Bring on the slings and arrows.
Ah yes, “taking it to the mattresses”
Forgot about that one…
Thanks Chris, for doing all my work for me.
So we can ignore the anonymity thing (wasn’t really all that big a deal to me anyway, I just like giving Tim a hard time. We go back.)
But again, just because what you say is true, doesn’t make it good. A person you are talking about may be a completely self-centered, ignorant, fascist, bleepity, bleep bleep bleep. And it may all be true and technically accurate (as in not just defamation of character and up to interpretation), but terms and labels like that have become insults in our culture. I’m not going to debate the propriety of that, it’s just the way it is. I don’t have statistics but whenever you see somebody who lacks knowledge or experience in certain ways, call them ignorant and see what happens.
Julie said it best, edifying while disagreeing is extremely tough. Now I’m not responsible to edify every Christian I disagree with, but when I become a part of a community (including an online community), I am responsible to edify the other members of that community so long as I am involved in said community.
You forgot about it?
Too bad.
You coulda been a contender.
I think we’re all largely on the same page here, with the disagreement being mostly in how we express the truth that these guys are jerks. I’m not sure what terminology I should have used, but when we get down to it the reality is that, though they’ve toned it back some, when it gets down to it they’re divisive, and mean on a level that is sinful.
Oh, and I’ve also learned that I’ve got at least three stalkers. I’ve always wanted a stalker. I’m thinking about putting Ken, Chris P and Jim on a mailing list and emailing them whenever I brush my teeth, or drink a cup of coffee. I could detail the type of toothpaste, and what I put in my coffee (correct answer: nothing).
Tim,
I think Julie and Christian’s advice is best here, though. I would also add that, rather than “jerk”, “idiot”, etc., maybe we should just allow their own words to prove the point…
Reed,
I could care less if you even brush your teeth. Don’t email me ever.
That being sadi I love how once again through sound bite 101 you fail to present what Jim’s entire post said. I suggest everyone read it for themselves.
As for Luther’s quote, to be the one passing gas is much different than being the feckless foundation, of the fetid, fecal, fragrance.
IOW you being the essence of the gas itself.
And that being the voice of experience I suppose…
iggy
“As for Luther’s quote, to be the one passing gas is much different than being the feckless foundation, of the fetid, fecal, fragrance. IOW you being the essence of the gas itself.”
Exhibit #1 of loving, strong, and humble discourse. When parts of the excretory system surface in Christian dialogue you can be assured Christ has left the building.
Chris P,
Your words and methodology speak for themselves. You’ve got a bitter, bitter spring flowing out of your mouth.
The AP Stylebook calls for a full name usage prior to referring to a person by their last name only for the duration of the article. Otherwise, it comes off as rude.
If rude was your intent, well, by all means, do your thing. Prove my earlier point.
Wow – the AP Stylebook, and Brando in the Godfather and On the Waterfront in the same thread…
Now we just need an Apocalypse Now quote to finish it off…
I thought it was somewhat apocalyptic when Julie told Ken.
By far my favorite comment ever in the blogosphere. Well that and any reference to Love Child.
Oh the horror…
Well done, Harry… er, Rick!
(inserting Wagner’s “Flight of the Valkyrie” here)
I love the smell of Christians burning up their keyboards in “Godly” disagreement first thing in the morning.
as far as “old truth” goes…
when something gets old it starts to smell…
that site should be called “definitely old, but not truth”.
I would always take the eternal truths of god over the “old truth” of 16th Century men…
I mean they were great REvisionists of their day…. errr I mean RE-formers…
iggy