The point at which Ingrid posts this and receives Chris L’s email and/or reads his public posting explaining that his comment was not a physical threat and does nothing to update the post she becomes a liar.
Come correct Ingrid.
________
Per this post and an exchange of emails, this matter is completely closed, and I would hope that regular commenters here would be generous with the same grace they wish to receive…
Chris L
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16 Comments(+Add)
This is ridiculous. No matter how much of a liar Ingrid is (I have been to her site and seen some, well, unfortunate things) there is no reason to harass her or make an entire site simply devoted to doing exactly what she does. These sites cannot be characterized as Christian or being done in or with the love of Christ. One should seriously consider reevaluating the motive of this site and what, in fact, it is accomplishing. This site will do no more than raise unnecessary tensions within the church instead of using our differences with each other to further the kingdom of heaven. Know that you are, in blatant, probably unnecessary wodrs, just as bad as her.
Whether she posts a correction or not, I have conversed with her and we understand each other a little bit better, I hope.
Perhaps she has not had time. I’m sure she is busy like everyone else.
Calvin,
While not singling out Ingrid here, I would humbly suggest that we do often fail, as you have noted, but that we’re trying to blunt the source of some spears which seem to be aimed at entire groups of fellow believers – be they in Evangelical, Purpose Driven, Emergent, Emerging, Catholic, Reformed, Charismatic or other Christian churches. We certainly fail at times, and calling to account is not always a bad thing…
In this case, I am hoping that Ingrid will correct the record, but if she does not, the paper trail to the truth does exist…
Well Chris, I couldn’t disagree with you more. If Ingrid, after 18 years, has not retracted her work, or even changed her beliefs about what she is writing about than this site has been a complete failure. Even the verse of this site has been taken out of context, Matt 23:23 was speaking of the hypocrisy of the Pharisees in tithing, not seeking out corruption in the church and simply bashing them over the internet instead of preaching to them in person. Think of how much more can be accomplished with the love and passion of Christ rather than the clicking of fingers on a keyboard and gentle sliding of a mouse to the “submit” button. Needless to say, in my opinion, this site is doing nothing but causing unnecessary rifts within the church. The online church is already dangerously filled with sarcasm, selfish desires and false teaching/doctrine, why push it to be any worse?
Calvin,
I would suggest that Matthew 23:23 is not so much about tithing as it is about being overly-holy in the little things (mint, cumin and dill) while ignoring the larger ones: Justice and mercy.
If you go back to the article which spawned today’s maelstrom, this was exactly the right verse to use. Here we had a church which was reeling from a tragedy in which a much great tragedy was averted, and the glory given to God. Rather than mourn with those who mourn (seeking justice and mercy), the pharisees in this case chose to make hay of the church using a security guard.
Just as accurate a verse to use would have been the next one, Matt 23:24 (which confirms the above interpretation of 23:23):
As for Ingrid, Ken and such changing – there have already been some subtle shifts for the better. Even without these, I have received letters from multiple folks who used to agree with Slice/AM/CRN who were directed over here and, even if they don’t completely agree with us (and we don’t always agree with each other, for that matter), they have decided that brothers in the ECM are actually brothers, and that grace & mercy need to be extended in doctrinal disputes over secondary issues.
For more on Matt 23:23, I would suggest this podcast, which will be archived in the next few weeks…
Whether or not the verse for the site is accurately depicted in the context of this site or not, the heart of my point was to show that the internet is no place to discuss/debate/argue over theological/church doctrinal issues. Your focusing on my comment on the verse clearly shows this. If we would have been talking to one another you would have picked up on my dislike of internet debate, seeing as it goes nowhere (or possibly minute changes). Furthermore the close mindedness of this site, and others like it, draws me to conclude that my pleas for simple peace between online “Christian” forums is useless. If you’d like to talk with me more, join gmail and we can email or use the chat system to further discuss, but my impatience and dislike of forums has reached its end and I won’t be on this site anymore (though I’m not promising..).
Calvin,
Would it be better to let CRN and Slice run rampant on the internet with no accountability, possibly destroying the faith, mercy, and love of those believers who stumble across them?
Or would it be better to minister where needed, the internet namely, to do even just a little bit of damage control. To me, that would be worth it. To me, Jesus is needed right here and right now just as much as anywhere else.
I think we too often say “get out there and do something!”, but the internet, in moderation, is a valuable tool to reach people and correct error, namely those who SEEMINGLY throw all other Christians under the bus over ‘mint, cumin, and dill’.
Grace,
Joe
Calvin, if this isn’t the place to have discussion what are you hoping to accomplish by coming here?
Joe M.,
I was going to say the same thing.
It’s like ordering food at Taco Bell while saying it’s a horrible place to eat and people probably shouldn’t eat there.
Phil, Morgan Spurlock is on line 2, and he’s got a beef with you.
She’s posted an update…
I would like to say, having been called a liar, that my first knowledge of Chris’s apology was this morning at 10 AM when I got to my desk. I suffer from fibromyalgia which causes sleep disturbances and exhaustion/muscle pain which is disabling. I responded as quickly as I knew there was a post and could not do better as I do not live online and have a family as well. As for me being referred to as a liar, I have never knowingly said anything on Slice that wasn’t true and doing so would go against everything I believe. I have made retractions whenver I have learned of error on my part. Because my take on something is different than someone else’s does not make me a liar.
Ingrid,
My wife used to suffer from fibromyalgia, and I know from her experience that it can be horrible. I hate to see anyone suffer from it.
I say “used to” because” 7 years ago or so, God healed her from it. It was really amazing because it was almost an instananeous difference. I just wanted to encourage you, because I believe God is still in the healing business. I’ll pray for you.
Just so that the record is clear (since we don’t delete posts) – if anyone is reading this at a future date, please go to this thread for the full resolution.
My apologies again,
Chris