he’s a witch!
Posted by Nathan on Dec 13th, 2007
2007
Dec 13
I chuckled at this article that was generally edited by Ken Silva. Apparently all you need to be emergent is a strong sense of community, a concern for the environment and a close family. walla! You have yourself an emergent. Heck, even the pope is part of the emergent network now! This all reminds me a few trials they had in a little town called Salem.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:02 am
seems more and more “having a good head on your shoulders” means “emergent” over there….I’m sure that’s some weird twisted backwards compliment that anytime someone seems to be getting on track, they get labled emergent.
I how I can’t wait for that post over at CRN that let’s us in it was all a long unfunny joke..
December 13th, 2007 at 11:18 am
I am not sure what is really wrong with the article you posted? All I see is them comparing words of two well respected(in their circles) teachers. It is intresting that they do seem similar. I think that this shows that a lot of the world(post-moderners!?!?) are sick of the current system of the way things are done. 75 years ago I don’t think you would of heard much talk from the Pope that sounded like this. This is another sign of the times. The shift in culture is now even effecting “the one true church” is can not even stand up to the waves of culutre relevance.
What is your definition of “emergent”?? Can some be an “emergent” catholic, jew(praticing), mulsim ect…?? Or is it just a movement restiricted to the evangelical(protestant) circles?
December 13th, 2007 at 11:22 am
Kyle,
it’s a rediculous comparison. It’s like saying
* Nathan Neighbour drinks water
* Brian mcLaren drinks water
Nathan and Brian are the same!
It is not wrong to believe in those things. They aren’t what makes someone a heretic. If they agreed over the hard issues, then we would have something.
December 13th, 2007 at 11:25 am
Emergent is a small group that are from “Emergent Village”. Some things out of them are a bit controversial… yet to understand “emerging” (which is the larger of the two) one must understand it is a conversation, not a movement… so yes anyone, any religion and such can enter the conversation.
The crux though are Christians who are tired of the hypocrisy and inability for the mainstream church to be what it is called to be… a living organism not “just” an institution.
So to state things as “emergent” this or that is a bit like saying all US citizens are all white suburban blue collared workers… it is “just” not true.
hope that helps,
iggy
December 13th, 2007 at 11:35 am
Another quick question?
Your “emergent villages” you refered to what are those?
Do you see any corilation between the movement in the 60’s? That generation was also sick of thier parents values. Those would be personal peace and afflunce as defined by Schaffer. There solution where not the same as the ‘emergent church” but I do see that the battles where over the same thing. People are only worried about personal peace, meaning as long as I can be happy nothing else matters. They seek as little interaction with others because that can be hard are ruin personal peace. Also the obession with stuff, stuff and more stuff(afflunce). This has been a pleague in American culture since around the 40’s-50’s. People have tried to find a new way, differnt values and have always failed to do this and just accepted the values of their parents(personal peace and affluence). The reason the failed is that the hippie movenment was still based on what they could achieve and a humanistic worldview. So the foundation crumbled along with the movement. We must be diligent when confronting these values(personal peace and affluence) with the world of God so that are founation will stand firm.
So what exactly is an ‘emergent villiage”??
December 13th, 2007 at 11:51 am
It’s like a smurf village, without people wearing those awful red hats.
Seriously, though, Emergent Village is just the name that the organization that is kind of a catch-all for people associated with the whol Emergent Church movement. It’s not a denomination or really all that organized.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
It’s just a network of relationships…loosely affiliated with each other…not everybody associated knows everyone else.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:40 pm
The similiarities between the Pope’s message, and the emergents, undeniable. Contemplative prayer rooted in Catholic mysticsim, religious icons and other sacramental affections are expressed by the emergents as well.
As a former Catholic, it’s hard to see the difference between the emergent soteriology and Catholicism. Especially when the Scriptures are subjugated by calls to reimagine church and it’s impact on the physical world.
The facts paint the picture. I am sorry if the resemblance offends you.
And by the way… Ken Silva had nothing to do with the post.
Please, allow me to take the blame. You would serve your audience well by avoiding assumptions.
December 13th, 2007 at 12:43 pm
Jim,
It is you who made the assumption friend. I’ll list them for you.
1. The post says, “Generally edited” which means that Ken is the general editor, therefore like it or not he is responsible for what is written there.
2. That sacramental affections started with the RCC, I can see how you would make this assumption because of your background but church history would not bear it out.
Thanks for coming over and signing your name to the post.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
well…so much for the 2000 year development of the theology of the Incarnation…
I’m so grateful some people came along in the last 300 years with the real gospel that empties the Incarnation of its meaning so that we can just use Jesus as an “escape plan” from the planet/universe God is redeeming (Col. 1, the end of Revelation.)
What a relief.
Actually, the sacramental system was inherently in place by the 1st council of Nicea. Maybe not as developed, but the basic reality was there.
All the church fathers understood the necessity of baptism and eucharist as part of the ongoing reality of Christian life.
So we can’t blame that stuff completely on RCC…until 1054….it was just Christians.
Sorry. Just was.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
NC,
How is what you said different from what I said?
December 13th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Also…there is no official Emergent sotieriology.
There are Presbyterians, Anglicans, Baptists, non-denom’s, methodists, all kinds, etc. who are convinced of their particular streams articulation of the gospel…
There’s only an openness to learn from each other and not disfellowship each other over differences of denominational identity for the greater mission of the church in the world.
I’m sorry you’ve bought into the characterization that we all sit around planning an agenda to destroy churches or bring them back to the RCC
December 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
NC,
Is that comment directed towards me?
December 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
sorry, misunderstood your comment.
December 13th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
It’s for Jim…
December 13th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
Gotcha.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Wait a second! You mean to tell me that Christianity was around and understood prior to the Heidelberg Catechism?
Oh my gosh! My whole world is spinning out of control!
December 13th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
Dear Joe,
Regarding your comments…
1. Editor…point well taken, I do agree that Ken Silva is “vicariously” editing.
2. Sacramental affections…
Joe, not sure why you bring up church history, perhaps you missread my comment. I was pointing out the affections the emergents have toward Roman Catholic sacraments.
Notable emergents in the US and the UK have displayed their interest in the sacraments of Catholicism. Visit my blog and click of the “ROME” label and the proof is there.
December 13th, 2007 at 2:31 pm
I am not sure how one can say that as there are many difference people of different doctrinal stances in the emerging… some are even Calvinists! So to give such a statement seems ignorant at best…
iggy
December 13th, 2007 at 3:05 pm
Hey Jim,
I was trying to point out that your statement they are RCC sacraments is a bit of a misnomer (IMO) because most the sacraments that E/E use were around long before the RCC.
December 13th, 2007 at 3:16 pm
Interesting to me is someone like Jim will state that when contributors at CRN do believe in many of the things Catholics do… or are at least very close to their belief concerning the sacraments… such as baptism regeneration…
iggy
December 13th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Iggy,
That is a point I thought of too. A lot of the mainline denominations have liturgical items that aren’t too far off from Catholicism.
Personally, I think it odd that anyone would make a big deal about someone praying while walking through a maze. I mean, I don’t find most of those things that helpful personally, but if it helps someone else, fine. I mean, at least they’re praying.
December 13th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Like infant baptism. Reformed Church in America and Christian Reformed Church in America.