he has been begging for it

Posted by Nathan on Dec 13th, 2007
2007
Dec 13

responsibility and accountability stink, don’t they, Ken? How ironic that Ken is offended over someone saying he isn’t a Christian.

50 Responses

  1. Matt Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 6:50 pm

    Apparently they do not feel that I am and can now proceed with legal action about my personal opinions concerning the well known leader in the emerging church Tony Jones.

    So, now it’s his “personal opinions” about Tony Jones. I thought God told Ken that Tony Jones was a Satan worshiper.

  2. iggy Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:02 pm

    Funny how facts changed to “personal opinion” and he states he is not afraid! LOL!

    Oh, can anyone verify if Rick Frueh did contribute to SoL at one time? I saw Ken state that Rick did not… Rick?

    iggy

  3. Joe Martino Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    Rick and I talked about it in the past and he has never actually contributed there. It was talked about but didn’t happen. I just think it’s funny that when we have said to Ken in the past, “That’s just your opinion” we are/have been called new age apostates. I feel bad for Ken.

  4. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:05 pm

    I was never an official contributor to SOL, AP, or CRN. They received permission to post two of my articles which they did. They appreciate some of my perspectives but reject others.

  5. dave Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:11 pm

    Wait… so they posted Rick’s articles?

    By their very own logic, doesn’t that make them apostates, regardless of the content of the articles?

  6. Ingrid Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:11 pm

    Rick was a frequent and pleasant commenter on Slice as I was the one who cleared his comments for a number of months while I was in South Carolina. Not only was he a commenter, he was frequently positive about some of the stuff I posted. So supportive was he that I nearly asked him to be a contributor and Jim Bublitz is a witness to this as I asked Jim’s views on the idea. I decided against it and since then, Rick has turned on me and misses no opportunity for nastiness, such as his recent comments on this site that I was a Roman Catholic, slandering me and displaying true ignorance about my doctrinal beliefs. I just wanted to back up Rick’s former support over at Slice. He has changed, to put it mildly.

  7. Nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:13 pm

    Thanks for the drive-by Ingrid. Any late-breaking comments on Ken’s new legal troubles? :)

  8. iggy Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:15 pm

    Well over at Bruce’s site, Ken is just burying himself more and more… it seems he just does not get that the more he pushes… the more he looks bad.

    I guess it must be about money cuz a lot of people support “hate” oriented ministries for some reason.

    That is “just” an opinion… btw.

    iggy

  9. Joe Martino Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    Where did Rick call Ingrid “Catholic?”

  10. Nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:16 pm

    which is Bruce’s site?

  11. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:18 pm

    Spurgeon lists your beliefs as Roman Catholic also. Your historical account is somewhat accurate, however I realized after many months that your tone was unchristian, and your role is unbiblical. I love the fact that you are now free to visit comment sections again, it makes it interesting.

  12. Phil Miller Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    Note to Ken: Please keep poking that bear with a stick.

    Everyone else - I’ll bring the popcorn.

  13. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:27 pm

    I understood from Chris Rosebrough that Ingrid’s church believes as does his in salvation through baptism (infant), and transubstantiation. Spurgeon said those resemble the Roman Church rather than Biblical doctrines. That was my point.

  14. Kyle in WI Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    Is that what they really hold to? They Lutherans? If they are I am pretty sure that they would never say that salvation is through baptism.

  15. Nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:35 pm

    oh, it’s true. Chris will probably once again come on here and challenge anyone to a public debate over the matter. It’s the running joke. Chris will criticize Warren for going to some conferences of Schuller’s, but believes you are not saved until you are dunked.

  16. Kyle in WI Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

    Could you point me to something that he has said regarding this. Because I like some of His stuff.

  17. Nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    try this
    http://www.extremetheology.com/2006/09/baptism_saves.html

  18. inquisitor Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:41 pm

    Can anyone tell me, is Ken a Christian?

  19. Nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:44 pm

    HILARIOUS!!! I just read through Rosebrough’s article on baptism salvation. He says this:

    The first time we hear this is then Peter tells those in Jerusalem that it is baptism that brings the forgiveness of sin (Acts 3:38).

    Can anyone tell me what Acts 3:38 says? Look it up right now. With research like this, I think I might debate him

  20. iggy Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 7:48 pm

    Inquisitor,

    Why do you ask? Is it becuase he isn’t acting like one?

    iggy

  21. Deborah Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    My Bible doesn’t have an Acts3:38.

  22. merry Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:11 pm

    Nathan– Lol.

    It was a typo. He meant Acts 2:38.

  23. Joe Martino Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:12 pm

    Inquisitor,
    We are not here to judge Mr. Silva’s eternal state. That is between him and God.

  24. merry Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:13 pm

    38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    -Acts 2:38

  25. nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    still… it’s bad exegesis.

  26. Joe Martino Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

    Nathan,
    Would you mind exegeting that verse then?

  27. nathan Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:38 pm

    when it says “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins”, you cannot imply that both of the actions prescribed result in the forgiveness. Especially since this is the exception, not the rule when we see “repentance” or “repent” in the scriptures. In other words, when we see Jesus or the disciples to repent, he does not always say to be baptized too.

    In fact, one chapter over, we see “Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out.” No mention of baptism. This happens throughout scripture. So, we can extract that repentance, not baptism is the element that washes away sin.

    It’s like me saying “go cook some food and eat, so that your hunger may be stopped”. Does the cooking make the hunger stop? No. The eating makes the hunger stop.

  28. Joe Martino Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    I agree with your interpretation Nathan, I do struggle somewhat with the Greek structure there seeming to put equal weight on the two words but not enough to sway me from a non-regenerational position.

  29. merry Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

    What exactly is baptism, anyway? Was Peter referring to getting dunked or sprinkled with water? I know it’s symbolic, but it’s just that: symbolic. I’ve always seen it as sort of a public announcement that I’m commited to following Christ and a time of public celebration that I made that commitment.

    I’ll admit, I’ve never been baptized. I’m hydrophobic and my church believes in full immersion.

    I always wanted to get baptized at a church that sprinkles. :)

  30. PTWTMinistries Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 8:50 pm

    Hey, Chris L.

    You might want to take a look at this: http://www.oldtruth.com/blog.cfm/id.2.pid.866

    WSY?

  31. Darren Sapp Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 9:03 pm

    Dear Father,

    I pray for peace today for all those who comment here (me included) and other blogs frequently mentioned here. Lord, please guide each of us to pause for a few minutes today and focus on you rather than our thoughts and opinions. Let us ask you for your will in our discussions and let our focus be on the furthering of the Gospel, the light of Christ to shine, and Your glory to reign. We love you Lord and that is what brings out so much passion. Lord, I especially pray for Ken Silva, that you would give him a blessed day.
    In Jesus’ name we pray,
    Amen

    The prayer above has no agenda behind it and no meaning should be assumed from it. It is just something I felt led to pray about.

  32. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

    The book of Acts is a doctrinal support book, but the epistles, particularly Paul’s, are the basis for church doctrine. Peter was speaking as a brand new Christian himself and can not be expected to be completely accurate in His doctrine. At that time he still considered the gospel exclusively Jewish.

    Merry, you are correct, baptism, as is the Lord’s supper, a memorial or public expression. Your fear of water may even be used as a sweet sacrifice to the Savior. Let us pray that God will give you the grace to offer your baptism up to Him as an emblem of your love.

  33. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 9:05 pm

    Darren - Amen.

  34. F Whittenburg Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 9:11 pm

    For Christ sent me not to baptize, but preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect (1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV).

    Paul

  35. merry Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 9:27 pm

    Rick said:
    “Your fear of water may even be used as a sweet sacrifice to the Savior. Let us pray that God will give you the grace to offer your baptism up to Him as an emblem of your love.”

    Yep, that’s what I keep thinking . . . someday it’ll happen. :)

  36. Chris L Says:
    December 13th, 2007 at 11:31 pm

    PTWTM,

    I say that you can prooftext quotes from most anyone, add in commentary on what they didn’t say, and then call it an article. I’d also suggest that Jim’s been smoking something or he’s never read Ken Silva or Mike Ratliff’s articles about folks that don’t hold to Calvinist doctrine to some degree…

    As for Spurgeon’s quote “Calvinism is the gospel”, I have only used it in the same context to which I have seen it used, that being similar to Mike Ratliff’s recent sidebar:

    There are two views concerning the Gospel of Jesus Christ. First, there is what we call Calvinism. Then, there are varying degrees of unbelief

    I certainly believe that Calvinists (and Arminians and Catholics) are Christians, despite doctrinal issues with each of them at some level. I have a large number of friends who are Calvinist, and two of the writers here are of that persuasion, as well.

    As to whether any -ism is “another gospel”, it only becomes that when it is held as closely as scripture - whether explicitly or implicitly. Jim may not know of anyone like that, but the words that he and some of his compatriots have written certainly seem that way at times. If the shoe fits, wear it, and if not… then don’t.

    But hey, when Jim or me or anyone writes an piece based on a false assumption, you end up with something like that article… (Apparently, Ken & Co. need to get my Google numbers up. So be it.)

  37. Mark Says:
    December 14th, 2007 at 12:08 am

    Baptism…

    Uh, try Matthew 28:19.

    But it’s only what Jesus said. So whatever.

  38. Chris L Says:
    December 14th, 2007 at 12:45 am

    I’ve not been involved with this particular conversation - that being baptism - but I am wholly inclined to suggest that it is mentioned far too many times (including Matthew 28:19, thank you Mark - did you go to Milligan, BtW?) to be something trivial to ignore.

    I’ve heard some suggest that it is a “work”, but I would ask this:

    When the children of God in Egypt were told that the angel of death was coming and that the only way to prevent the loss of their firstborn was to put the blood of a lamb on their doorposts, if they did so, was this a “work” by which they were saved?

    Baptism has been used as a divisive issue for a good many years in my own non-denominational denomination, as a way of differentiating ourselves from other denominations. In some ways, I know of times when it was a pride issue. However, if you wish to be a member of one of our churches, you have to be an immersed believer. We won’t tell you that you’re not saved if you don’t - that’s not up to us. But we will say that membership in the local congregation requires submission to the elders of the church, and that baptism is one of the things that they have interpreted as being required of a Christian.

  39. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 14th, 2007 at 6:01 am

    I will continue to say that most Calvinists have an admireable devotion to the Word. Most Calvinist/reformed people I know personally are gentle and spiritual people who do not seemed obsessed with that particular doctrine. I have benefited by knowing them.

    I have had some unpleasant experiences with Calvinists on the internet. But people like Brendt are a breath of fresh air.

  40. F Whittenburg Says:
    December 14th, 2007 at 8:50 am

    I have always considered baptism as symbolic of death, burial, and ressurection and not actually death, burial, and ressurection. What is the correct exegisis when coming across scripture that seems to stand in contradiction?

    For Christ sent me not to baptize, but preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect (1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV).

    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19 KJV).

    In many Protestant churches today as well as the Catholic Church the congregations are referring to priests and pastors as “spiritual fathers” apparently off of Paul’s quotes about Timothy being his “son” in the ministry (1 Timothy 1:2 KJV).

    Jesus also speaks against this practice.

    And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven (Matthew 23:9 KJV)

    Is the correct exegisis of scripture then to accept Jesus words then over Paul’s in situations like this?

    F Whittenburg

  41. PTWTMinistries Says:
    December 16th, 2007 at 11:27 pm

    Chris L,

    Thanks for taking the time to respond.

    I had a feeling that your mind had already been made up about this article. Then again, I have to wonder if you’ve become something of a theological chameleon. No matter how much sites such as Old Truth hit their target while it’s in motion, you try to find a way to maneuver around it.

    Nice try, but it’s not going to work in the long run.

  42. PTWTMinistries Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:01 am

    Rick was a frequent and pleasant commenter on Slice as I was the one who cleared his comments for a number of months while I was in South Carolina. Not only was he a commenter, he was frequently positive about some of the stuff I posted. So supportive was he that I nearly asked him to be a contributor and Jim Bublitz is a witness to this as I asked Jim’s views on the idea. I decided against it and since then, Rick has turned on me and misses no opportunity for nastiness, such as his recent comments on this site that I was a Roman Catholic, slandering me and displaying true ignorance about my doctrinal beliefs. I just wanted to back up Rick’s former support over at Slice. He has changed, to put it mildly.

    Well, if there is any truth behind this (and I am inclined to take Ingrid’s word over Rick’s), then shame on that “Baptist” minister!

  43. Chris L Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:13 am

    Putin
    The
    Winner of
    Time’s man-of-the-year?

    Actually, Rick compared the use of sacraments in the Lutheran church to those in the Catholic church, IIRC…

  44. PTWTMinistries Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:16 am

    Putin
    The
    Winner of
    Time’s man-of-the-year?

    THAT WAS TOTALLY UNCALLED FOR, AND YOU KNOW IT!!!

  45. Chris L Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:19 am

    I’m no Putin fan, either, but it was funny :)

  46. PTWTMinistries Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:23 am

    I’m no Putin fan, either, but it was funny

    Chris, it wasn’t funny at all. It was absolutely offensive, and I really am offended that you did this.

    I’ve been compared to some egregious things in the past, buy you don’t compare my ministry to a Commie. Not when you take into consideration that Christians have had the most blood spilled by Communists.

  47. Chris L Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:29 am

    PTWT

    I wasn’t trying to compare you to a commie - I was just following yesterday’s anagrams (many of which made no sense whatsoever). Lighten up just a bit… (also, I’m not totally brushed up on Russian politics, but I believe that Putin is in the United Russia party, which is centrist and not communist)

    If you were offended, you have my apologies…

  48. PTWTMinistries Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 12:37 am

    Apology accepted, for one

    Second, I have no desire to take Putin at his word. The man was a KGB Colonel. Sure, a leopard can change his spots…NOT. (It’s also like the ChiComs resorting to capitalism so they can literally build their war chest for, you guessed it, war.) Ask David Aikman about that one.

    I must digress, I am getting OT.

  49. Julie Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 2:02 am

    So we went from a post on Ken Silva and ended up on wondering if Putin were a commie and trying to hot-foot around a possible offending of someone’s sensibilities?

    I am all amazement.

  50. Rick Frueh Says:
    December 21st, 2007 at 8:42 am

    I love how some repost former comments as some kind of “proof texts” about who knows what. And to be “inclined” to believe someone is subjectivity at its finest. Most of it is meaningless and the “poor me” attitudes of some ODMs is pitiful. If you feel you are attacked for righteousness sake, REJOICE!, don’t murmur and lament about it.

    I have recieved many hateful e-mails about a bunch of things over the last 2+ years, so what? I live in Disneyland, my brothers and sisters in chains are the real heros of the faith. We are so consumed with ourselves. (for resaerch on this visist the blog world)

    I happen to be an unprofitable servant of Jesus Christ.