Justice and Mercy #19: Michael Spencer

Posted by Tim Reed, Owosso MI on Dec 12th, 2007
2007
Dec 12

This is our second podcast featuring a non-CRN.info writer. This time its Michael Spencer who posts both on his website and at the Boar’s Head Tavern.

Michael is an administrator at a small Christian school that has a philosophy and reality that is far different from the average Christian community. If you’d like to download the interview click here.

If you’d like to contact us about the podcast you can send email me or leave a voicemail at (313) 416-0285.

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When Scoring Points is of Greater Need than Love

Posted by Chris L on Dec 12th, 2007
2007
Dec 12

Rabid WatchdawggieIt was with great sadness that I read about this past weekend’s shootings in Arvada, Colorado. My in-laws from Allenspark, Colorado (several hours away from Arvada) were here in Indiana with us, so they were rather interested in following the story, as well. It was such a tragedy that a family lost two children in such a sad and senseless way. I found somewhat of a sense of providence in that 40-50 more lives were probably saved because a member of the New Life church, Jeanne Assam, was carrying a gun, as part of increased security, and used it to deadly effect.

There was applause as Assam spoke to reporters and TV cameras saying, “God guided me and protected me.”

New Life’s Senior Pastor Brady Boyd called Assam “a real hero” because Murray “had enough ammunition on him to cause a lot of damage.”

When asked by a reporter if she felt like a hero, Assam said, “I wasn’t just going to wait for him to do further damage.”

“I give credit to God,” she said.

What an example of God providing in a time of tragedy.

Granted, you knew that there would be folks with political agendas to advance in the wake of the shooting, primarily the anti-gun lobby, as Virgil Vaduva noted in his article on Unfinished Christian. Well, just as in the world apart from the church there are those to whom a cloud with a silver lining is only an invitation to call for more lightning, such nasty individuals also seem to find a home in the church. Why allow God to get the glory when there are political points to be scored?

The long knives of the Sanhedrin were out in full force, seeing this as as a time to take shots at a church in tragedy (and not the first time they’ve done it to this church). When you’re at war with the forces of this present darkness, it isn’t surprising that there will be shots that are fired at brothers and sisters in Christ - literally or figuratively. What is really sad is when the get shot in the back.

But it’s not like this is something new for rabid watchdogs in need of being put down…

suddenly, it all becomes clear

Posted by Brendt on Dec 12th, 2007
2007
Dec 12

Run, Forrest, run!! The Calvinists are coming over the wall!! OK, not really. But seeing as how I’m one of those icky Calvinists that your mother warned you about, and seeing that I’m not the first one here at CRN.Info and Analysis, I think that this means that we now have twice as many Calvinists on “staff” as Apprising Ministries [sic].

Yeah, I’m the new kid on the block. Someone once (lovingly) labeled me as a “black sheep Calvinist” as I’m more interested in being a Christian and loving by Arminian brethren and sistren than fighting over TULIP. Similarly, though I probably wouldn’t consider myself to be emergent, I find much of the dogma against the EC to be nauseating. When I call out the “white sheep Calvinists” and/or anti-emergents for their lack of charity, I’m usually assumed to be the illegitimate love child of Jacobus Arminius and Brian McLaren. When I reveal that I’m not, they usually don’t know what to do with me. Not that anyone else does either. . .

Anyway, enough introduction and on with the post.

Charles Spurgeon was one smart cookie and often quite the theologian. But he missed the mark on this one, and the error is actually quite telling.

Over at TeamPyro (where Chuck gets the floor at least once a week), a Spurgeon quote was posted that — I guess — is meant to be the proof-text to defend their methodology and harsh tone when pointing out (but never seeming to get around to actually helping to correct) what they perceive to be error. A few things jump out at me on this:

1. What seems to be Spurgeon’s point from the quote — and what clearly is the poster’s point (given his choice of post title) — is that “defending” orthodoxy is better than “tearing it down”. One could quibble endlessly about the proper definitions of both of those terms in quotes, but taken at its face value, that is probably a true statement.

But since when are Christians called to seek what is “better”? I thought we were supposed to strive for the best?

2. Spurgeon decries those that soft-pedal truth, and to some extent he makes a good point, as certainly there are those who take epistemological humility to an illogical extreme and claim that we can’t definitively know even the things on which the Bible is quite clear.

There is an oddity here, though. While I can’t ascribe it to Spurgeon, it is quite easily ascribable to many who quote him. Spurgeon is well-respected in many Reformed/Calvinistic circles — among whom (unfortunately, in this case) I number myself. In the famed Calvinist TULIP, the “T” stands for the “Total Depravity” of man. It is quite odd that anyone who claims to believe in such a tenet would also look down upon all epistemological humility, as if to say that any man — even one saved by God’s grace — could grasp all that an infinite God is.

3. Here is the real crux of the quote, and the “telling” part that I alluded to before. Spurgeon decries “bring[ing] out your opinions cautiously” (emphasis mine). In other words, according to Spurgeon, one should always be bold and definitive regarding one’s opinions.

I keep thinking back to Billy Graham. Whenever he was being interviewed and was asked his opinion on a particular topic, his first four words were usually, “Well, the Bible says. . .” Graham recognized that his opinion didn’t amount to a single bean, let alone a hill of them. Certainly, he would clarify how he thought a particular Scripture should be interpreted or how he thought it was applicable to a given situation. But the Scripture always came first — it wasn’t “here’s my opinion and here’s my eisegetical proof-text to back it up”.

Spurgeon seems to be flirting with that viewpoint, so it’s of little wonder that he would be well-respected by those who are firmly entrenched in it.

Charles Spurgeon’s Legacy: Rick Warren

Posted by Tim Reed, Owosso MI on Dec 12th, 2007
2007
Dec 12

From here:

Ultimately, the fourth-generation pastor [Rick Warren] – whose great-grandfather was converted under legendary evangelist Charles Spurgeon

Ken Silva goes to Robert Schuller for the truth

Posted by Tim Reed, Owosso MI on Dec 12th, 2007
2007
Dec 12

Ah the latest dust up around Rick Warren has hit, and calling it a tempest in a tea pot would be, well, generous. What has been largely agreed on are the facts. Warren attended a conference run by Schuller 18 years ago and was deeply impacted by Schuller’s ability to appeal to non-believers. Here’s the quote from Christianity Today:

“During his last year in seminary, he and Kay drove west to visit Robert Schuller’s Institute for Church Growth. “We had a very stony ride out to the conference,” she says, because such nontraditional ministry scared her to death. Schuller, though, won them over. “He had a profound influence on Rick,” Kay says. “We were captivated by his positive appeal to nonbelievers. I never looked back.”
Imitating Schuller, Warren walked the (then unincorporated but fast-growing) town of Lake Forest, asking what kept people from going to church. (Online Source).”

In the recent interview cited by watchdoggies everywhere to keep their base up in arms and coming back to their websites Warren stated:

“I’ve only met Robert Schuller twice, I believe. I’ve never had a one-on-one conversation with him. Not once. So how do I even know him?”

These facts are not in dispute, no one has offered any evidence or even wild accusation that Warren has had more contact with Schuller than what has been stated above. The only thing that is being argued about is how best to describe their relationship of two meetings and a conference 18 years ago.

So who does Ken Silva go to to sort out his opinion for him? Why Robert Schuller’s own organization.

So maybe after we get done discussing how to describe Warren’s relationship with Schuller, we can start the discussion on how Silva’s own relationship with Schuller can best be described. Is Silva being mentored by Schuller’s website (after all that’s a lot more interactive than tapes)?

picking up the pieces

Posted by Nathan on Dec 12th, 2007
2007
Dec 12

I knew that the ODMs were going to scramble when I read this interview with Rick Warren, especially since he addresses the lies of the online blogs. Sure enough, it has made all of them start to type, and type frantically. Chris Chris Rosebrough of ExtremeTheology.com has made a feeble attempt to tie Warren with Schuller. At best he loosely proves that Warren was influenced by Schuller’s thoughts on church growth nearly 18 years ago. Ken Silva at apprising.org dragged out all of his old and deflated hit pieces on Warren, proving that he really has nothing new to say. And then there is Ingrid at sliceoflaodicea.com, with her crass name calling and worn-out accusations. The ODMs are busy over this one.

I just sit back and laugh. These guys gotta keep everyone believing that they are right. We wouldn’t want to actually let Warren set the record straight, now would we?