-dies- LOOOOOOOOOOL

Oh wait, but blasphemy!!!! It takes such a sacred song about Jesus, and dishonors it!!!! We’re going to hell now.

Joe

I laughed so hard I cried.

Ingrid.
While we have you here would you mind answering a few other questions? Oh and you’re welcome.

By the way, this post has made it to SOL 3.0.

Ingrid,
Why are you equivocating, at most, a song with our Lord Jesus Christ?

That’s like a cross between “Nick the Lounge Singer” and Kermit the Frog (caught in a trap).

There’s a sweet lady at my church. I love her.

She sings loudly. And badly. In church for everyone to hear.

But her heart is in the right place. The Lord must listen to her and smile because she is genuinely worshiping him in her own way.

If I recorded her and posted the song for you to hear you’d probably laugh.

I don’t know if the person singing was joking or not but that’s who he reminds me of.

oops, you can omit the middle paragraph, somehow I picked up something that was on my clipboard.

Chris, what did we ever do to you?

I don’t know about Ingrid, but I’m sure John McCain wouldn’t approve — he’d put that song at the same level as waterboarding.

Miriam,
There was a guy at a church I attended for a few years that would pray in a way that was terribly funny. I can’t describe it via text all that well, but it was the same sort of situation you found yourself in. Its a nice reminder that God isn’t all that concerned with our opinion on what it looks like.

OK Dan, Go get your Bible and show me a verse that supports your position.

Would it matter to know that this song was actually written by a Jewish composer whose day job was to write music for the Moulin Rouge and other cabarets in Paris? I would think that might tarnish its holiness a bit. I mean, no telling what other unsavory language the composer had written with that same pen.

The way some people approach “sacred” music is really baffling to me. I mean personally, I would love to a Weird Al hymns album. I don’t think hymns are inspired the same way Scripture is. They are an imperfect expression of man’s heart to God.

I think a certain amount of fear and reverence to God is good, but with some people, I think they think they are dealing with God in an Old Testament context still. They forget how God chose to reveal Himself to humanity in the New Testament. It’s through the weakness and accessibility of Jesus. I mean Jesus was so approachable that even little kids felt safe coming up to Him. God is no longer the unapproachable God in the Ark of the Covenant. Through Jesus, we can approach Him as we are and unafraid.

I’m just curious, why is it ok for one of the anonymous authors over at C?N to deliberately change scripture to paraphrase what it is, but posting an mp3 of a non-inspired song is a big no-no?

Puh.leaze!!!

that is such typical american religious drivel.

When you’re being told to dig your own grave and lined up in front of it because you’re being shot dead for your faith…

or meeting in a cave in the mountains of North Korea for your church service

then please pull out that verse…

until then, save it.

oooooooooooh….it’s just soooooooooooooo hard!
People disagree and that’s just soooooooooo tough on me.
wah, wah, wah, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah….

ROFL!!!

Tooo funny.

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the verse “Make a joyful noise unto the Lord . . .”

I love how it says NOISE. Not “Sing joyfully with a classically trained opera voice,” or “Only those who were given the talent to sing may sing a joyful song unto the Lord . . .”

And praise God that he doesn’t care what we sound like! He cares about our hearts, I think, more than our singing talents.

WARNING: Some of the comments on the link (last paragraph, previous post) are pretty harsh/crude.

Keith asked, “What makes this funny?” I think the point I was trying to make last night is that there are times when you know you shouldn’t laugh but you just can’t help it, and it just comes bubbling out because it’s, well, funny! I think this is one of those things. Surely Jesus will not disinherit us for such antics….

Ecclesiastes 3:4 – …a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance.

Obviously, there are times and places this would be completely inappropriate.

:>

is this how you “honor” Jesus?

Col 3:17

Amen, RS. I hear the cackling of demons. Shame!

Is anyone surprised that Ingrid’s readers are listening to demons?

When you truly love someone, it is very painful to hear that person mocked. It most certainly is not funny!

I don’t get how this is seen as mocking the subject matter of the song, but rather, the singer either mocking himself or allowing his non-ability to be mocked.

If we’re going to open that little can of worms, fine.

Is every bad piece of Christian music a mockery? Every flawed, non-professional grade, fully orchestrated effort of music by a Christian a mockery of the Creator who perhaps didn’t bother to install a tuner on the voice box? What’s our little litmus test here, as to what’s “good enough” of a performance to be considered honoring, and what’s a mockery with demons cackling and shame following? Is it a matter of the heart? Can we determine that matter of heart, via MP3 playback, if this was a serious effort or not? Can we not all say we know some terrible singers who don’t care and just sing out joyfully and full-bore?

I know that Ingrid prides her husband for his classically trained trumpet efforts and all the work he’s put into it and how valuable all of this work and mastery is to God, as if that somehow makes it more pleasing an aroma as an offering to God. Cain* had some fine, lovely vegetables, I heard. Big whoop. I’ve yet to find a verse that delineates the definition of singing and praising and worshiping and anything else to only those who have mastered some musical instrument or skill or are determined by the human audience without a direct line to the heart and mind as to what they are thinking and feeling as they are making that music.

So, since we do not know the story behind this, and it makes us laugh because it sounds terrible but not because we enjoy some bizarre assumption of mockery, we are with cackling demons.

That’s just stupid.

Bad singing is hilarious. I know. It frequently comes out of my mouth. Word to the supposedly wise: God did not, despite my heartfelt wishes that he had done so, install a default setting in his human creation to actually create beautiful music all the time on this side of heaven. And so, off-key singing, playing, or bad musical attempts are little else than painful and funny to use, but to God, not so much.

It sounds funny to us.

Or, I should say, depending upon whether your nature is to see outrage or not, you’ll either find bad singing a blasphemy and get all steamed, or just laugh inwardly and get annoyed at the volume.

This is as stupid a discussion as the one where they freaked out about a worship leader using a “fake” book and going all a tither on the sacrilege of “fake” musicians. Clueless. And stupid.

Like I said on the submissions page: being “sober-faced” is easy to achieve, with the aid of two halved lemons.

Crack an un-self-righteous grin for once in your life, O Dissenters With An Ear to the Cackling Demon Choir.

*Updated. I had meant Cain/Abel. Wrote thinking of Esau/Jacob. Sorry.

I knew what I was listening to! It came through loud and clear. It was NOT some poor well meaning individual who couldn’t sing well. It was done for humorous effect -that is so plain how could anyone think otherwise? Even if a person can’t sing well, if they are trying to sing from the heart with love of the Lord, it would not sound like that! That was phony, phony, phony -done for laughs, period. So obvious. It is disgusting and a mockery of the scared. Paul Miller wrote: “a certain amount of fear and reverence to God is good, but with some people, I think they think they are dealing with God in an Old Testament context still”. But the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New. God has not changed one iota. He loved us enough to send His own Son to die for us. But that does not mean we can just think of Him as our big Pal in the sky. He is an awesome, fearsome God who commands us to reverence Him (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). He is the same, yesterday, today and forever. When you see Jesus when He comes again in glory, you will shudder in His presence. He is the creator -the maker of all this world. The angels cry, Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb – continuously night and day. And here we are laughing about a humorous rendition of ‘O Holy Night’. Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture? ‘A certain amount of fear and reverance to God is good’. That is the biggest understatement I have ever read! Grace is not license to just do,say, be whatever WE please. We will know them by their fruits. This fruit is rotten!

And here we are laughing about a humorous rendition of ‘O Holy Night’. Does anyone see anything wrong with this picture?

Ooh, ooh, I know…

Some Christians are “friendly as a tomb, fragrant as the bottom of a locker-room broom” to quote Steve Taylor.

Of all the things that displease God, I doubt that someone recording a hyper-stylized version of a song makes the list. Christians seem to care more about how we treat our creations – the songs, liturgies, and architecture, than how we treat God’s creation – the actual people in a church.

. “Christians seem to care more about how we treat our creations – the songs, liturgies, and architecture, than how we treat God’s creation – the actual people in a church. ”

Sorry, Phil, but we can’t treat ‘the actual people in a church’ as we ought unless we first understand our need to treat God with the honor and respect due His name. The first commandment is to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. The second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Loving God means reverencing Him. Chris,’O Holy Night’ may not be scripture but it was written to give glory to God-that was the purpose the writer had in mind and that is how it is normally sung by followers of Christ. When I was talking about ‘knowing them by their fruit’, I was speaking of the person who sang the song that way because it is obiviously done for humor. Perhaps that you think it is funny, is also ‘fruit’, however. So, you can say I am as “friendly as a tomb, fragrant as the bottom of a locker-room broom”if you wish. I know from reading here only briefly, that anyone who disagrees is spoken of in a deriding manner with ridicule. So we post at our own risk, hey guys? Talk about attack dogs, you folks are the experts on here. I feel the love…..

Rose,

Wow. You know the mind and intent of the writer of the song?

I know from reading here only briefly, that anyone who disagrees is spoken of in a deriding manner with ridicule.

Wow. It’s just so hard to have people disagree. It’s just so personal that people refuse to be dominated by one set of people’s preferences.

I somehow doubt you take issue with the “life calling” of trashing people that certain ODM’s have. Since you agree with the content then it matters not that they lie/slander, etc.

Give me a break, Rose. It’s called a difference of opinion. Disagreement doesn’t equal attack, persecution, whatever.

And talk about love…when some people come here on blast and then get pegged down a bit and whine they aren’t being loved…again:

give.
me.
a.
break.

sorry, Phil, but we can’t treat ‘the actual people in a church’ as we ought unless we first understand our need to treat God with the honor and respect due His name.

Sorry, Rose, but we can see that reality just doesn’t bear that out. My hindu neighbor who is kind to me and watches my house when we are gone at night must be doing something radically different then being loving since he doesn’t know how to reverence the God of Bible…by your logic.

I guess the atheist, self-professed God hating biker in my old neighborhood must be doing something else when he takes care of his little girl, watches my dog, and helps me with packing my belongings because I needed an extra pair of hands…

And I’m sure my “vigorous disagreement” with you is very “attack dog” now…

can you see how your comment might strike me as a bit ridiculous?

He loved us enough to send His own Son to die for us. But that does not mean we can just think of Him as our big Pal in the sky. He is an awesome, fearsome God who commands us to reverence Him (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). He is the same, yesterday, today and forever. When you see Jesus when He comes again in glory, you will shudder in His presence. He is the creator -the maker of all this world. The angels cry, Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lamb – continuously night and day.

Rose…what part of this post or thread denies the awesomeness of God?
What part says that somehow we subscribe to a changeable God who we will not shudder before when he returns?

But thanks for the copy/paste of what we all know and believe here…

You guys, this is such a silly argument. I’m exhausted just reading these comments. Joke or not, the Lord knows the heart of this singer(?!). Even if this guy was being funny I can’t imagine that he was mocking the Lord on purpose. Let’s just let it go, before this thread turns into another argument about the anger and wrath of God.

Popcorn anyone?

Well, I’m a fat kid, I’ll take some popcorn

You guys better be careful. TO is going to show up and steal all your popcorn.

I probably should let this go, but I was gone all morning, and I was thinking about this some more.

I don’t see how this song could be construed as being disrespectful to anyone, honestly. I mean somehow this got turned into an issue about revering God, but I don’t know how. I still stand by my comment about caring more for our creation than God’s. It seems we have elevated these artifacts of Christian culture to an almost idol-like position.

All this talk of irreverence makes me think of my favorite Christian magazine – “The Wittenburg Door“.

Pharisee warning: If you were offended by this rendition of “O Holy Night” do not even think about clicking on the link above. You will probably die from offense.

Joe C,

IF (and I highlight that word on purpose) you read my post with a little more care, you will notice that I said IF this was mocking and IF it was poking fun then there is cause for concern. I then made a point (again using IF)

I firmly believe that God has a sense of humor otherwise we would not have one. But I also recognize that what you or I think is funny may not be what GOD thinks is funny. If the guy singing this song was truly singing to the Lord in worship and love then GOD BLESS HIM for doing his best! Does that make me a Legalist? No. Judgemental? No.

You however have no problems judging my heart and assuming I am trying to create controversy and your infinite god-like wisdom has already concluded that the man singing this song absolutely positively was not mocking God. You started in on the very first post here trying to incite debate and then sit on the judgement seat when it starts. You lack the humility a true Christian should have.

I think that is absolutely HILLARIOUS.

I did not say all new songs. Hymns are written with Soprano, Mezzo-Soprano, Contralto, Tenor, Baritone Bass so there is a role for every person. I am not saying new songs are bad, I love a lot of the new stuff. “In Christ Alone” is one on the most beautiful songs I have ever hear. I don’t know much about music but I do know that more people know how to read music and follow along with that. Try signing “I can only imagine” the way Mr. Millard does. It is not meet for congregational singing. I do not reject scripture choruses and yes i do prefer hymns but not all of them. Like I said before it is about the words of the song not the style. I used to listen to all the christian rap, rock ect. The only thing I have left is the Ambassador but cause of his lyrics. You should not make straw men and use an ad hominem if you want to talk about reasoning and logic. Why do you reject hymns. I was merely stating why hymns are preferred by most churches not saying that if your church does not sing hymns then you are apostate. And yes inferring that hymns are more congregational than modern songs written with on one or few signers in mind. This is a fact. Now not all newer songs are written this way, for a group of people, most of them are written for performers, again not all songs!! So it is a fact that hymn are more user friendly. Thank you for the lively conversation.

soli Deo gloria

Kyle,
The argument you’re making is reasonable and not dogmatic, which excludes it entirely from the watchdoggie realm.

If I may make a few observations that come from experience and not expertise as you clearly have. First, there are many hymns that are difficult to sing, but they aren’t used. A couple of hundred years of experience has taught us which ones are terrible and which are excellent. There are quite a few worship songs that are easy to sing, though many that are not easy to sing, and/or of low quality. There hasn’t been enough time yet to shuffle them into the proper categories as has happened with hymns.

So that is why I prefer hymns.

Kyle, the key word that you used being “prefer.”

Or the key phrase that you used being “I prefer.”

Carl,

In your comments you did the very things you just accused me of doing. I gave you a SMILEY face to make sure you knew I was being playful. Sheesh.

Besides, I said, and implied, it is evident from this conversation that no one HERE is trying to mock God. We’re just laughing at bad singing.

Also, notice I said “unless you want to make it controversial.” I didn’t say you were, but just incase you were planning on it.

I agree that we should all read each others comments carefully, but you should have done that also.

You started in on the very first post here trying to incite debate and then sit on the judgement seat when it starts. You lack the humility a true Christian should have.

I did not. That is a complete distortion of what has happened. You obviously have not read all my comments. I am AGAINST the judging [against] that has come about from posting this song. The people that have come and judged us as sinning, and as demons, and as hellbound; I am against this. In the very first comment, I satirically predicted that this would happen, and it did. I didn’t start any controversy, judging, etc, but it did happen exactly like I ’satired’ it would. Others brought the nastiness in, with their “humility” and “love”.

As for me not showing the humility a Christian should: Well…as always, I thank you for your exhortation to be more humble and Christ like. But make sure you look at how you’ve been, and take your own advice brother.

If you really don’t think I’ve been humble, I’m sorry I’ve offended you. But I’ll let God and the rest of the brothers and sisters decide whether I need to be rebuked or not.

Love,

Joe

That is a good word, Kyle.

I have a whole lot of demo tracks seriously submitted to recording studios that sound much worse than that

Chris L

1) Did you mean demo tracks or demon tracks? ha hahahaa

2)Did you actually submit that to a recording studio or you mean you have seen that version of “His eye is on the sparrow” submitted by someone else

3). Are you the lead singer on that recording in 2 above and what or who are the other credits? If your answer is yes, would you kindly consider limiting yourself to the B3?

I think the singing is simply funny and that is why we all laughed. Without knowing the context in which the guy sang O Holy Night, it is just funny and that is all. If it was a genuine attempt at praise or the singer was delibrately mocking which is very unlikely, I hope all of us who laugh and keep laughing may be forgiven.

If this is the case then he took something holy and made it profane.

Sorry Kyle, I don’t consider a song to be holy, any more than I consider a building or a car to be holy.

I think the main difference is that this is a religious, this is not a bad word, song. Yes songs are holy because the are words. I do not think music(without words) can be holy or profane. The difference is the words. The way the guy sings is funny, wether he is meaning to do it or not! Yes I do agree, but the song hey choose to use if a poor choice. It is not that the song is old or traditional it is that it is for the Lord and His glory. We have taken this song and made it a joke. I feel that one of the reasons it is humuorus to some is that it is a traditional christman song that is taken seriouly. So you see it flipped on its head and mocked in a way. Humans love to mock people and it can be fun. But not when you mock a song devoted to the worship of God. Joe C. I know you are joking when you make your comments but they do seem a little mean spirited, at least that is the impression I have. You are not saved if you have an incorrect view of God(Trinity). If you don’t believe that Jesus is God, the Holy Spirit is God and the Father is God and that there is only one God then you are calling God a lair, and no matter how much you insist that you have faith in Christ, that faith would be a in a differnet Christ. I am not saying any of you deny the trinity just making a point that these things are important.

1 Corinthians 10(NIV)
31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God— 33even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.

When you do something for the glory of God, then it is consider holy because you are setting apart that action, your whole life, for God. So was this song for the glory of God? Was it sung for the glory of God? Did you listen to it for the glory of God? I must say I fall short of this too! not everything I do in life is for the glory of God, in fact I would say a lot of the things i do profane my life and God. But that does not negegate the fact that I am supposed to do all for the glory of God. I do agree that there is that 3rd option. That would make sense. A heathen loves to mock God and the things of God. “Sin in a wicked man is like poison in a serpent; it is in its natural place.” THOMAS BROOKS

Did you listen to it for the glory of God?

How, exactly, does one do that?

Does this apply to all music, or only religious? Does it take singer into account? Listening is a passive, purposeful, accidental act, among other things, that make the phrase “listen to it for the Glory of God” sound very good and acceptable but rather unwieldy in practice.

…you are setting apart that action, your whole life, for God…

And that? Sounds nice, but how do we do it?

Sadly, I just love to laugh.

Because, seeing as how I’m mainly a melancholy person (as God has created me), I need to laugh. In fact, God has often touched me with moments of outright laughter in strange situations and it is always a gift. I can physically and spiritually feel a lifting whenever he does it. If you are not a seriously melancholy person, you won’t understand what life is like, and you won’t understand how the gift of laughter is truly a God-given gift.

So, I laughed. Like I laugh when a bad singer tries to tackle the Star Spangled Banner*. I listened to it to laugh at the foibles of humanity.

I fail to see how this was wrong, despite all this bloated discussion. Some of your larger discussion, Kyle, is valid and interesting. But tied into this one example, this one song… it all seems over-done.

—————–

*Not a religious song? You’ve obviously not been in some of those bizarrely over-patriotic churches….ugh.

I’m with Julie on this one. I think that God gives us laughter as a gift. Personally, I’m astounded that we’re still analyzing this thing. I don’t think that this song was recorded to be mean-spirited; it’s not making fun of a specific person. It’s just meant to be funny.

Personally, I think the ability to laugh is one of the signs of a Godly person. When I think of the most Godly people I know, they are generally the people who crack me up the most. It’s not that they’re comedians or anything, it’s just they’re good natured. I believe that it’s part of being childlike. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes by G.K. Chesterton from Orthodoxy:

[Children] always say, “Do it again”; and the grown-up person does it again until he is nearly dead. For grown-up people are not strong enough to exult in monotony. But perhaps God is strong enough to exult in monotony. It is possible that God says every morning, “Do it again” to the sun; and every evening, “Do it again” to the moon. It may not be automatic necessity that makes all daisies alike; it may be that God makes every daisy separately, but has never got tired of making them. It may be that he has the eternal appetite of infancy; for we have sinned and grown old, and our Father is younger than we.

Many people, Christians included, live joyless lives because they are essentially bored by the monotony in life. They lose the ability to see things like God does. They don’t see the beauty all around us, and over-analyze everything. I’m convinced that some Christians make it their life mission to make sure no one anywhere is having fun.

I agree laughter is from God and joy. It is practial to live to the glory fo God not just cool and nice sounding. A movie can make you glorify Christ. You watch Lord of the Rings and the glory of the plan of redemption and praise God that is what he His doing in our world. It makes you see the big picture and reminds you of God. What ever is true is what we are called to think about, along with that wich is lovely and pure ect… So how do you listen to music for the glory of God? Does it cause you to think of God and his character? Does it bring you joy and change your attitude, even if for a short time? Song like Father Abraham had many sons” is a great and fun song. You laugh and have a great time singing and giving glory to God, whiel affirming the truth about God. This song was meant to reflect of the greatness of the first advent and the glory surrounding it. Is this supposed to be a serious song/ What do you guys think? Are these prectical steps in listening to music for the glory of God? There is a lot of converation about this song. is it bad? have you ever thought this way about music(songs) before? has Christ be lifted up in the way we has discussed this? We all like to live in our on little lives, birds of a feather, so this is great. Again we must look to the bible and what it says about songs and why we sing.
Colossians 3:13-20 (NIV)

15Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God. 17And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

So songs are important to God! They are used to make Christ dwelly richly in our hearts. They are used for doctrine. We are not beings that can seperate these things. We are creative and songs are powerful that is why God has given us intstuction about them and there purpose in our lives.

i do agree Joe that it is Christ alone that saves! But if you knowingly reject the Trinity then you reject Christ! I think we agree but are just using diffent ways of saying the same thing.

About joy. There is the old illustration of the train. With the caboose being feeling(affections) This is wrong. Faith drives the enigne and release smoke which should be the affections of a christian. You should have joy you are commaned to. Life is great, even though there is suffering, even the boring stuff of life should be consider a joy, like you said, the problem is fighting for that joy. I don’t know if much of what I am saying makes sense, this is the first time I have thought of songs(christian) in this context! We do have freedom in Chist and I do not condemn, but we need to use descrnment when it comes to things that we use to worship God. And take the time to think about this stuff, because our living and our lives is important to Go.

I’ve read most of the comments on this page and I think we should all stop kidding ourselves by pretending that this singer (?) is either a handicapped person singing his heart out or someone just doing his best to sing a praise to the Lord or making a joyful “noise” (or so on and so on).

The top of the page lets you know from the start that this whole thing is a JOKE and the person singing and the person posting has no intention whatsoever of glorifying Christ with this Christmas song. Read it again: “O Holy Night (sort of)…we’re all in need of a chuckle”

I read the comments about “the ability to laugh” and the defense of joy and all that blah, blah blah! The problem is that, that is ALL the church is doing these days. Just laughing themselves giddy while the world looks at American Christianity and realizes that they don’t have the answer to a dying world. We’re too busy either attaining our best life now or “laughing ourselves silly” or “acting so like the world” that the lost just looks at us and realizes that we are powerless and ineffective and we are a far cry from the early representative of our Lord Jesus Christ. But that doesn’t matter today. Who wants to be like those “outdated” men & women who turned the world right-side up for Christ when you can be “cool” and show that world that we can be just like them and still be a “funny” Christian?

We all admit that there is nothing wrong with laughing and we do it all the time. But is there nothing sacred anymore? Does EVERYTHING have to become a joke? Does the church have to turn EVERYTHING into enterrtainment for fear we might lose the attention of one single parishioner? No one trusts a clown and the church has become the Bozo of the sacred. Sadly, the church of Jesus Christ in America will change its tune (no pun intended) when persecution begins to knock on her door.

Sorry if I sound tough on this point. I guess I’m just tired of the church being “the joke” rather than the great institution Christ meant it to be.

The problem is that, that is ALL the church is doing these days.

Gee, Steve. Speak for thousands, why don’t you? Millions, even. Who told you everyone was laughing, and that nothing was sacred? Took their word for this condition being true, did you? Have you been to every church?

Last Sunday we had two guys crying in Sunday School class — grown men — over heartbreaking things in their lives. Wow. Giddy we are. And, cool, too. Look how cool and giddy we are, laughing as the world burns! Oh yes!

Your comment is the king of generalizations. Kudos.

Chris,

Would you say that sogns, sermons, words, actions among many other things can be holy? Holy means seprate, set apart for God. And if these things are not or can not be holy why?

Just look for some input, more input. So I to can be ALIVE!(lol)

I agree with the what you say regarding the OT. It was a shadow of Christ who would be the Holy One of Isreal, complete set apart for God. But in your example you seem to say only is a person is doing something for the glory of God only then can it be considered holy, is that what you mean?

Indiana Jones found it.

I submit that if you find it….don’t touch it. Melty faces are bad.

Chris,

We had the same sort of thing happen at our church. My wife, my best friend, and I all play music for worship. One day while we were practicing together, my friend leaned on the Alta used for communion, and set his Bible down on top of it. Well, the old organ player lady who had been going to this church for centuries (lol ok maybe not that long), was very offended and informed us that “we should not treat the holy altar like that”. My friend and I looked at each other, knowing and thinking exactly what you were just stating about what makes something “holy”, and we decided not to press the issue, and let it slide. It wasn’t worth offending such a wonderful old lady. There were no pastors there to help us explain, and back then I was pretty new to that congregation, so I didn’t want to correct her, cause an issue, and ruin practice.

Joe

Pfft, you guys are amateurs. Standing on a communion table – that’s nothing. Growing up, my brothers and I, in no particular order:

-went swimming in the baptismal tank

-played dodgeball in the foyer

-constructed a haunted house in the foyer

-sent multiple baseballs through multiple windows

-had “pew races” to see which one could get back and forth from one end of the sanctuary to the other by jumping over the pews

-set up a BB gun shooting range in the Sunday School classroom corridor

I’m sure there’s other things, too.

Buildings and furniture ain’t holy. Supposedly the people in them are, though.

One last comment. Words are holy, and so can we to be holy(our bodies) be holy. We are holy living sacfrice! I think this is why we are given insturction on how would should talk to one another as christians. Becasue the words and more importantly the heart determines the holiness. So “O Holy Night” was written to worship God, therefore the song can be consider holy because the purpose of the song is for glorifing God. So if another person with an unholy attutide sings the song not for the glory of God but for the entertainment of men does that not mean that he took what some made for the worship of God and made it common or profane. You don’t use gold toliet paper to clean your backside because it is consider valuable set apart for other things from the common things. So if there is more value in “O Holy Night” than “Just Eat It” wouldn’t but unwise to make fun of “O Holy Night.” So we are supposed to clease ourselves of common(unholy) things. Do you get where I am coming from. Again I do not condenm, I am just seeking great discernment for myself when I use things that are meant for the worship of God, not things liek the table and pews, but things that realate to the heart like songs, sermons, and attitudes. So Paul said that some things are noble and others common. We are to seek things that are noble and prufiy ourselves.

2 Timothy 2:20-22 (New International Version)
20In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for noble purposes and some for ignoble. 21If a man cleanses himself from the latter, he will be an instrument for noble purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

22Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

So if God is present in a specail way, like in heaven or in the beleiver, then it is consider holy, right?

Psalm 22
3Yet you are holy, enthroned on he praises of Israel.

The Lord recieves the glory do his name when we sing His praises. Thanks for the great debate about this. Again I feel that this is profitable for us, not pointless, if we look to the bible for our answers.

So can actions like hugging, kissing and other things of the like nature be consider holy. Can words and thoughts be holy? Can the way we live be holy?

So then if it is not done for th glory of God then it is unholy?

But isn’t everything we do in life supposed to be for the glory of God. Your wife hugs you because has compassion that flows from a godly heart! So even the boring and uneventfully things are still supposed to been done for the glory of God right? Now it is hard to do this, I don’t do it, that is why we look to Christ because he did.

So do you consider the Bruce Almight movies, including the sequel which I have not seen, to be unhloy, mocking God. Or is it just for laughs? Where is the line drawn that says this is not a way to treat the tings of God in this manner? How do we discern this stuff?

Atheists hug each other too Kyle. Does that come from a godly heart? Some weird standards that are not in Scripture are being laid out here.

Bruce Almighty was hysterical, but that was a long time ago, and I didn’t waste my money in the theater on it, and it had some bad points. I thought it illustrated man’s desire to sin and want to be God quite well though. The god they portrayed was a straw-man false god, so what’s the problem? They weren’t talking about the real God. Same reasoning for The Golden Compass, in case you’re wondering. What we put in to our bodies doesn’t make us unclean, what comes OUT does, says Jesus. I didn’t see the second one because it made no sense at all.

Why tell the guy to build an Ark and bring all the different animal SPECIES (huge problem) to the Ark if it’s just going to be a local flood? I have the same problem with the people who believe Noah’s flood was just local. How does that make any sense? “Hey Methuselah, I’m going to go walk on over to Ur and escape God’s judgment, see ya!” LOL

That wasn’t the only reason I didn’t see it though.

Joe

Hatefulness?? Wowser…you’re a little off me thinks Steve.

No one is mocking Christ, sorry you feel that way.

Merry “Pagan Holiday turned Christian Holiday by the RCC” to you too,

Joe

:Shrug: so let him try. God’s got him pegged.

Why should I be upset, surprised, outraged, blah blah blah, about this movie? It’s exactly what you’d expect a world-system that hates God to do.

I for one won’t be telling people to flee from this movie. Let them see it. If God is in control, and He is, then it won’t be a problem. By making such a big fuss of all the crap the world does, we just make people want to indulge in it more. Instead, we should learn about these movies, books, whatever, so that we can intelligently converse about them with unbelievers, get down in to the dirt with them (like Jesus did), and minister to them. You should go read the big post on the Golden Compass a few weeks ago on this site. It’s already covered there. Go search for it.

A kiss is ‘holy’ by intention.

So let’s use this logic, which is true by the way.

If that song was intended to be mocking (the Holy Night one), then fine. But if MY intentions in listening to it are to laugh, and be happy, and ammused by poor singing…then how are those intentions sinful? If I am Holy because He is Holy, and set apart by Him, can I do anything to lessen HIS HOLINESS? I think not. My intentions were not hateful to Christ, mocking to Christ, or anything towards God at ALL. I was merely laughing at the bad singing, which is the ENTIRE point of the post in the first place.

So your logic, or the Bible’s logic rather, goes both ways friend.

Joe

Hey Kyle, thanks for talking.

I think the Golden Compass is anti-christ too. It’s an anti Christian theme, sure. But I also realize that it’s SUCH a bad portrayal of God (meaning it’s so fake), it’s SUCH a straw-man, that it poses no real threat to any of us. And CERTAINLY not to God. The more fuss and cry we make about it, the more unsuspecting souls go “oh it MUST be good then, let’s go see!”. So the opposite of what you want to happen, happens.

I am highly considering seeing this movie, only thing that would stop me is I don’t want to give these monkeys my money. However, I want to see it so I can talk to people about it and use it as a springboard to tear down the straw man and talk about the Real God, Jesus.

Afterall, it’s what Jesus did. Get right in the mud and dirt of His days, to minister to the lost.

Joe

And this is what the author said about his books.“I want to kill God in the minds of children.” Philip Pullman, Author of the “The Golden Compass” taken from the trilogy of books His Dark Material

I don’t want to drag out this discussion any further but Pullman (as near as I can tell) never said that quote. Again this is Christians knee-jerking their way through life.

The movie opened today and I’m predicting a blockbuster. Mainly because Christians advertised for the movie.