if this was a trial…

Posted by Nathan on Nov 12th, 2007
2007
Nov 12

Silva would loose. In an attempt to show that T.D. Jakes really believes in oneness Pentecostalism, he writes this article at CRN/Apprising. Here is the only evidence Silva gives for Jakes’ theology

“I have been in the field of Comparative Religion, apologetics and counter-cult evangelism for 20 years now. The reason I mention this is to tell you that unfortunately it’s not common when someone who teaches false doctrine concerning the Trinity does so ‘clearly.’”

“Jakes says he ‘became Pentecostal 26 years ago at a Greater Emmanuel Apostolic Church, where I was later ordained a Bishop.’ And as I also said in JOT: ‘I was unable to locate a website for this church but from years of personal research and study I can tell you that almost invariably when we see the word Apostolic in the name of a church it is Oneness Pentecostal.’”

“Now here is how the Belief Statement from The Potter’s House where T.D. Jakes is pastor currently and clearly reflects his OP view of God:
God–There is one God, creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three manifestations: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.”

“Jakes himself said ‘I believe in one God who is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. I believe these three have distinct and separate functions—so separate that each has individual attributes, yet are one. I do not believe in three Gods’”

“This representative for T.D. Jakes goes on to say they have ‘never denied the Trinity, and we are disappointed that anyone would misunderstand or misrepresent us.’”

So let me get this straight…

  1. You don’t know clearly teaches oneness Pentecostalism
  2. You don’t know what the church he came from teaches. However, they might teach oneness Pentecostalism and because of that, Jakes is guilty by association (even though you have no idea what that association believes).
  3. Jakes affirms that there is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and each have “distinct and separate functions”
  4. Jakes’ own representative has said he affirms the trinity.

Sounds like a small bit of evidence to make such a huge ruckus. I am not affirming Jakes’ theology. I am just saying that this is not enough evidence to condemn people with.

This is Research?

Posted by Phil Miller on Nov 12th, 2007
2007
Nov 12

This post is an example of why I can’t take anything that gets posted on CR?N seriously.  Anyone with any kind of comprehension skills should be able to see the fact that the “Christian Porn” site linked to in this article is a thinly-veiled and sad attempt at parody (I will not put a link to the site here, since it is so vulgar).  Sadly the “editor” doesn’t possess the skills necessary to research his or her way out of a wet paper bag.

 Also, if the editor did any actual research into the xxxChurch, he or she would see that the ministry actually takes a very strong stand against pornography and is helping Christians who are caught up in it.  Again, though, it is easier to create a straw man and blame everything on the EC rather than actually debate facts.

Exhibit A: One Reason the World Hates the Church…

Posted by Chris L on Nov 12th, 2007
2007
Nov 12

Watchdawggie Ace…and why she often looks like a hooker instead of the bride.

http://www.charlotte.com/nation/story/358086.html

For all the whining, moaning and consternation over the ECM, it seems that much of the bemoaning the direction of the church misses the two basic examples in American Christianity which turn off the masses and give all of us, and - more importantly - Jesus - a black eye.  These are:

1) Health & wealth gospel-pushers

2) Self-righteous busybodies who are more worried about boycotting Disney and demonstrating over the lack of Nativity displays than they are about the widow, the orphan and the stranger

In general, here at CRN.Info, we’ve dealt with #2 far more than #1, but I’d just like to take this particular moment to say that the gospel of health and wealth is particularly repugnant to the gospel of Jesus and living in the kingdom of God, and that displays like that of the Dollars, Myers’, White’s, Hinn’s and their ilk do little more than pave the wide road with gold bricks. I could care less about whether their view of the Trinity is Oneness, Twoness or Threeness if the gospel they preach - that true faith in Jesus will make you healthy and wealthy - does not resemble that of the one who taught “blessed are the poor…”

Bleh.

De-sanitizing Christmas #3: Meet the Parents

Posted by Chris L on Nov 12th, 2007
2007
Nov 12

An excavated insula in CapernaumIn Part I of this series, we examined the need to view the entire Christmas story arc, and in Part II we discussed the probability of Jesus’ birthday on Sukkot (mid-September to early-October), as opposed to the semi-synchretistically chosen date of December 25.

In this installment, we will examine Jesus’ parents, comparing common belief/depiction of them to a contextual probability of who they were.

Marriage Customs

In Middle-eastern Jewish culture in the first century, like today, girls are considered to have reached an “age of accountability” at the age of twelve, or their first menstruation, whichever comes first. Upon reaching that age, the family would search for a prospective future mate for their daughter.

Upon finding an appropriate “match”, the families would gather together and announce a betrothal between the daughter (the lesser party, in that culture) of one family and the son (the greater party) of the other family. In that celebration, a blood sacrifice (typically a goat) would be made and a binding covenant declared between the families. Once declared, the betrothal could only be nullified in agreement between the two families, without cause. If there was cause, such as infidelity, to break the covenant, the patriarch of the family violating the covenant could be subject to death, if the offended family so desired. This was a serious thing!

In the Galilee region, once a betrothal was declared, the son would build a room onto his family’s house, preparing it as a place for he and his bride to live (these multi-room, multi-family houses, called insula, have been extensively excavated in Galilee cities in the past several decades). Once the father of the bridegroom decided that the time was right for the wedding to come about, he would tell his son, and the entire family would go to pick up the girl and bring she and her family back for the wedding celebration. At the culmination of the first night of the wedding feast, the bride and groom would enter their new home together and consumate the marriage (while everyone else waited and celebrated outside - talk about pressure to perform!). This image of bride and groom, preparation and wedding feasts is used in multiple stories told by Jesus.

But that’s a topic to examine a different day.

Mother Mary

All cultural indications from the Jewish culture and the Galilee region would suggest that Mary was 12-13 years of age at the time of her betrothal. With this in mind, and considering that most betrothal periods would last from 6 months to two years (at most), would make Mary 12 - 14 years old when she received the visit from the angel Gabriel.

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 1:18)

How often do we see Christmas reenactments on TV or at our churches in which Mary is a young twentysomething girl, as opposed to a 6th-, 7th- or 8th-grade girl? Not only that, but she’s 9 months pregnant!

Joseph

If we only know a little bit about Mary, we know even less about Joseph. Once again, if we follow Galillean Jewish tradition, Joseph would have been at least 13, though it is possible he was a few years older, since he is identified with a profession, which he would typically have learned from his father between the ages of 12 and 16.

There are a number of traditions which have suggested that Joseph was significantly older and a widower when he was betrothed to Mary. However, this came from the Catholic tradition which insisted this must have been the case, because of the belief that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus’ birth (a mistaken interpretation of Matthew 1:25). Thus, since Jesus had at least 4 brothers and 2 or more sisters (see Mark 6:3), many Catholics will argue that these siblings had to have come from Joseph via a prior marriage. This is highly unlikely and not supported by scripture.

How Do You Solve a Problem Like Mary-uh?
In Matthew 1, we read about Joseph:

Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

So, already, we can see Joseph’s an honorable fellow, unwilling to have Mary and/or her father disgraced (or potentially, killed) for her “infidelity”. What we might miss, not knowing this culture, is that Joseph was, in turn, exposing himself to a great deal of public disgrace in not divorcing here.

In not taking action to distance himself from Mary, Joseph was de facto admitting that he was the father of Mary’s baby (which would have been seen as a moral failure on his part, in primary responsibility), which should have resulted in an immediate binding declaration of marriage (without celebration) and disgrace to him and his family.

In Luke, we learn about the census of Caesar Augustus in approximately 4 B.C., and the events around Jesus’ birth.

In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register.

So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

This passage is all we have in the Bible about the events specifically around the circumstances of Jesus’ birth. And it begs some questions, based on the context we’ve discussed - questions that don’t often get asked.

1) If Joseph was of the house and line of David, so was his father. Since he was not yet married, it would be sufficient for his father or grandfather to register his family in the Roman census. Instead, we have a 15- or 16-year-old boy taking his 9-months’-pregnant, 13-year-old bride-to-be on a dangerous 40+ mile walking journey (owning a donkey was a symbol of wealth, which does not seem to be indicative of Joseph’s circumstance). If he is not yet married, he should not be responsible for registering his family-to-be. Why isn’t Joseph’s family with him?

2) There was no room for them in the inn. In the middle-east, hospitality is prized above almost all other social values, so for there to be no room - in a town from which Joseph is descendant - is very strange. So - why would there be no room for a boy and his imminently expectant bride-to-be in a community which should have relatives, and where his father’s family should be staying?

Culturally, the best answer to these questions (and other similar ones) is that, in taking an obviously expectant Mary as his bride, Joseph was ostensibly admitting “guilt” in the circumstances, and had brought some degree of shame upon himself and his family, and was living out the consequences. This would explain why Joseph and Mary didn’t have anysupport from their extended families, why he would have to take Mary with him, and why nobody in Bethlehem would have room for them.
Another possibility which has been suggested is that Joseph had no extended family, but this does not make as much sense, as Joseph was learned in a profession that would have required familial apprenticeship to learn.

So What?

All too often, we paint an incredibly sanitized Christmas in our own cultural context, missing out on the desperate and dire circumstances of Jesus’ birth and the cultural lowliness and shame surrounding them. In trying to exhalt Jesus (which is a good thing - don’t get me wrong), we miss how low God allowed himself to go on the cultural and societal ladder in entering this world.

He came in the circumstances of the lowliest of the low, exhalting Himself in serving all other people, and dying the worst of deaths on our behalf. If we do not let him be who he was, we cannot fully appreciate who he is and what he went through for us - in life and in death.