Attack of the Fictional Gay Wizard
I just find this post on Slice to be hilarious. The level of paranoia has reached an all-time, I do believe. Not only do the Harry Potter books teach your children to believe in witchcraft, they are pushing the homosexual agenda on them.
The thing is that the books themselves do not say this. Unless your child reads CNN or Fox News, they probably would not know about this interview. Also notice in the interview, the Ms. Rowling doesn’t say that Dumbledore is gay, but the she had imagined him as gay in her own backstory.
Now, personally, I don’t really have much of an opinion on the Harry Potter books. I’ve not read them, and I haven’t seen the movies. I probably won’t either. It’s up to each parent to decide what their children should read and watch. It’s just funny to me to see this level of hysteria generated by a might-be-gay fictional wizard.
I wonder what these people think about Bert and Ernie…
- Humor , Ingrid , ODM Responses , ODM Writers , Uncategorized
October 24th, 2007 at 11:26 am
Read the post a couple times - where is the “level of paranoia” that you see?
I think the issue here is that it just goes to show how foolish some people have been in embracing some ridiculous wizard/witchcraft story in an effort to promote what they perceive to be the gospel. Christian themes? Gimme a break.
Now, with this new “revelation” from the author, it further shows how utterly ridiculous these individuals have been.
I am bewildered that any Christian with an ounce of sense and conversion would even remotely consider these books/movies acceptable material for their kids.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:03 pm
Secular books are such an easy target. I do not read Harry Potter or for that matter almost any fiction. But these things lend themselves to our scheme of envisioning ourselves as dragon slayers. These things are only symptomatic of the spiritual problem of the church, but they make for a sensationalistic stand with little or no cost.
Words…how comfortable.
October 24th, 2007 at 12:35 pm
Paul C,
Youd don’t find these statements to be paranoid:
Like I said, I doubt that most readers even know of her comment. It’s not mentioned in the books that he’s gay. This was simply something Rowling said at an event.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:32 pm
Hardly paranoid Phil… again, I think you guys are reaching a little.
To draw you back to my point, it simply illustrates the utter foolishness of some who tried to wrap Potter into a Christian-friendly character that “we can all enjoy.”
This outing of Albus (whoever he is - I have no idea) simply further reinforces how ridiculous Christian bandwagon jumpers can be.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
In the 1930’s the evangelical community treated “The Wizard of Oz” like some treat Harry Potter. I think it is a minor issue considering the colossal challenges before us, but it’s easy. I was in a Sunday Morning service where the pastor preached an entire message on the evils of Harry Potter and he stated that it was proof that he wasn’t afraid to tackle the tough issues.
I believe that salvation through baptism is infinitely more dangerous than a library full of Harry Potter books. But as I said, secular books are like low hung pinatas.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Paul C,
They don’t look nearly so foolish as trying to insinuate that Harry Potter books are some sort of trojan horse for witchcraft and homosexuality.
We shouldn’t be surprised that when people teach such ridiculous, and paranoid things that they’ve lost all credibility when it comes to sorting truth from fiction, and so any proclamation of the gospel is lost amid the clutter of paranoia.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
The thing I always love about the ODM’s when it comes to Harry Potter (and I know for a fact that some in that camp don’t agree with them at all on the Harry Potter thing–but I digress), they want to vilify Harry but LOTR is good to go. HUH?
October 24th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
I wouldn’t know Joe - not a fan of either personally.
I agree with Rick - there are much more important and subtle issues at hand, but I simply take issue with fact that the initial post tries to insinuate hysteria and paranoia which is simply not there.
As the watchdog of the watchdogs I thought you guys would hold yourselves to a higher standard, no?
October 24th, 2007 at 2:02 pm
I’ve always had my suspicions about the wizard, he was very effeminate, kept to himself in OZ, practiced role playing, and was very theatrical.
Hmm…could it be?
October 24th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
What else do you call insinuating that a book is going to unleash a wave of witchcraft and homosexuality? Hysterical and paranoid seems to fit.
October 24th, 2007 at 2:11 pm
Sorry Tim - don’t see that… here’s the main point of the post:
That so many evangelicals have been willing to defend the Potter books testifies to the blindness born of rebellion in the church today. By striking a blow for the acceptance of homosexuality, Rowling is only being consistent within her worldview. If only Christians would be as consistent within theirs!
Not sure how you can disagree with that.
October 24th, 2007 at 2:36 pm
You are correct, Paul, Rowling was just being consistent. The point is entertainment, secular entertainment. It is filled with adultery, homosexuality, violence, and all the other sins. I just don’t think a crusade against HP is very productive or even bold.
How about tackling divorce in the church, pastoral salaries, women prophets, ceremonial salvation, and many other significant issues. By suggesting that reading Harry Potter believers are participating in witchcraft is hysterical.
October 24th, 2007 at 3:09 pm
Then what do you get out of this: “Albus Dumbledore is gay, and he has been and will continue to be a tremendous influence on millions of children.”?
October 24th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Yeah, but, have any of you played some of the Beatles songs backwards!!??(grinning)
October 24th, 2007 at 7:08 pm
Paul C,
Why is your clan not screaming about the witchcraft filled writings and films of C.S. Lewis’ “The Chronicles of Narnia”? White Witches, spirits, magic spells? How do you spell double-standard again?
October 24th, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Ingrid’s post is pretty foolish. Rowling knew that inserting a gay character into a children’s book would get her nowhere. So she has now decided to insert a gay character after the fact. It’s all political.
There’s a link I should dig up, but people are even questioning whether she, as the author, is entitled to do that. What if, instead of arguing that Dumbledore is gay, Rowling proclaimed that Harry is really a chain-smoking Jewish woman from the Upper West Side? Would that really make it so? Doubtful.
The point: Let’s focus on the books. Are they condoning of homosexuality or not? If they aren’t, let’s focus our rage elsewhere.
As far as I’m concerned, Rowling can jump in a lake. And anyone gullible enough to fall for her baloney can jump in with her.
October 24th, 2007 at 10:35 pm
As someone whom the Lord rescued out of witchcraft, I personally find the movies very disturbing. I saw the first one which was borderline, and the second I only saw the preview which was enough for me. I agree also that LOTR or Narnia is edgy but the way HP glorifies witchcraft without side effect is dangerous when added to it the supposed Christian allegories. If parents don’t watch / read the movie / book with their children the following is a danger:
1. Witchcraft is nothing but a bit of fun to help you (AND you can buy HP chess boards that move with a magnetic wand etc)
2. If the gay story is published enough, children will think that homosexuality is OK.
When sin is watched as entertainment, in the end it softens your conscience.
Paul C, I agree with your statements…Why would a Christian parent let their children watch a movie where the main character repeatedly commits a sin that is listed in the Bible as one that you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven if you commit it?
October 25th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Paul C and David M,
Something I can’t understand is why there isn’t a distinction made based on the fact that this is clearly a book of fiction. The Harry Potter book takes place in an alternate universe, which changes our analysis of its portrayal of witchcraft.
For example, are the Narnia and LotR books idolatrous because they advocate following higher powers *other* than the Triune God? Of course not. No, instead, we recognize that there are themes that implicate the Triune God, making those works of fiction *allegorical.* To accuse Lewis of idolatry would utterly miss the point of what he’s saying.
Isn’t a similar thing happening with the Potter books? To me, they are basic morality plays taking place in a context where magic, as its traditionally understood, is real. This is far removed from witchcraft as condemned in the Bible, which is represented as attempts to subvert and manipulate the power of the Triune God in favor of evil.
If we can teach our kids not to jump off of buildings because Superman isn’t real, why can’t we teach our kids not to imitate Harry because he’s just as fictional?
It’s all about discernment, which Christians sadly possess very little of.
(And I can’t even begin to fathom how a story about Rowling declaring that Dumbledore is mysteriously gay years after the books were written is going to convince anyone that being gay is ok. All it does is demonstrate that Rowling is a doofus.)
October 25th, 2007 at 7:59 am
My position on HP for the past bit of time has been that it’s up to the individual believer and their own conscience. I’ve enjoyed the books and movies, and thought much of the ‘magic’ in them so cartoonish as to be obviously fictitious and unbelievable. The use of magic and the supernatural as elements in our stories far predates HP.
Rowling’s remarks about Dumbledor, however, do bring in another and for me for troubling aspect. No, the books give no hint at such a thing concerning him, but for her to introduce it now only makes it all the worse.
And this will receive play, and people will learn about it. It fits how the media wish to spin things.
October 25th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Dumbledore is the most a-sexual being in these movies! And actually, these books and movies have no sexual plots other than what would be considered within the realm of appropriate by most of the readers here, I would imagine.
My daughter is downstairs watching #4 movie right now. We all enjoy them and the books. All my kids understand that this kind of witchcraft isn’t real. M.G., you did a great job explaining my point. Are you in my head? Oh, wait, no that’s Parkman on Heroes.
Zan
October 25th, 2007 at 8:56 am
“to the crooked all things appear crooked”
get over it.
the character was not depicted as a homosexual.
it’s just a stupid statement from that stupid author.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:15 am
I still say the sexual orientation of the Wizard in the Wizard of Oz was questionable. He lived alone, he was effeminate, he dressed up in different roles, he was very theatrical, he was close to his aunt, it all points to being gay.
I’m burning my copy right now, it might be contagious!
October 25th, 2007 at 9:20 am
Rick,
I love your humor, and am glad to see it amidst your physical struggles. We will continue to pray for you!
btw, I think your right on about that insidious wizard…the lion isn’t far behind, though…maybe they…never mind. I won’t finish that though!
October 25th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Nathan, if you read my post you would see that I’m not a LOTR’s fan either… And I’m not screaming about HP.
The issue is the consistent lowering of standards in the Christian arena in their efforts to “win friends and influence people”. The church is willing to get in bed with anything with a heartbeat and that’s the sad truth, because “Hey, maybe this is way to win people over.”
That’s the point of the post as far as I can see. Consistent compromise in little things leads to compromise in large things. As Solomon says, the steady dripping of the water (seemingly so harmless) wears away the stone…
October 25th, 2007 at 11:13 am
OK, as always let me provide the complete balance of the subject (humbly of course!)
I see some problems with Harry Potter and I can understand when people choose not to see or read it because of those issues, but I cannot understand hysteria.
Let us save our hysteria for the greater issues of our time which continue to get greater. When I see kids becoming wizards by the droves then I will again visit the Harry Potter issue, until then I don’t read it because I do not like fiction. Which is why I don’t read alot of Chris Lyon’s systematic theology -too much fiction!! (I can’t help it, I’m on pain medicine, come on down guys and I’ll share!!)
Remember, liberty in all things!
October 25th, 2007 at 11:30 am
And reading Harry Potter does that how?
Just more silliness that perverts the gospel by adding to it.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:38 am
sigh
What’s the big deal? Joanne Rowling creates a realistic back story for a character, one which is both reasonable and realistic, and we get upset? Why - there is nothing there to upset anyone! As far as the text tells us Dumbledore is celibate, and there is no suggestion of any other character being gay. It isn’t a big deal, but adds a richness to the character on the page.
Besides which, she has upset the gay lobby more than anyone with this - partly for saying this after the fact, and partly for making Dumbledore celibate (at least in later life), which is consistent with her own Church of Scotland beliefs.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:44 am
1. Was there any suggestion that Dumbledore is gay from “the books themselves”?
2. Or is the only suggestion from the author well after the fact?
If 1=NO and 2=YES
then add them together and you get:
3=Another excuse to be angry in the name of God so people can convince themselves of their own righteousness.
October 25th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
This whole Harry Potter issue is “Dumb - ledore”.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Hi M.G.,
I also think Narnia and especially LOTR are questionable. Shun them no, but be careful. I read narnia a a child and it was fine, but LOTR would have been too much (again just personal).
HP however scares me greatly past the personal conviction part, now to address your point directly, has realisitic satanic rituals in it, e.g. autowriting, communucating with the dead etc. Children of course know the difference, but watching these things simply deadens them to it and worse of all makes it (the realistsic side) seem like fiction when it is in fact real! Sometime it can have the opposite effect too, you just don’t know.
I know that demons are real, evil, and that people talking to dead people are really talking to demons. If I see a demon I tell it to go away in Jesus name because they are crafty and deceive. I find it very disturbing that people can watch demons on screen for entertainment.
” This is far removed from witchcraft as condemned in the Bible, which is represented as attempts to subvert and manipulate the power of the Triune God in favor of evil.”
True and false. The root of witchcraft is rebellion. At it’s essence it’s to do what you please, when you please. The characters in HP and others do not die to self, put off sin and turn the other cheek. In the short run there are simply no Christian themes in the book. Someone dying for someone else or even a god who dies on earth and was ressurected are actually pagan themes from before Jesus came to earth also, so by themselves do not constitute a wholesome gospel message.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:05 pm
Although I do not discount the reality of the witchcraft genre of demonism, I believe we completely underestimate the subtlty of the powers of darkness. They are much deeper and insidious than we could ever know, and they even sometimes use witchcraft to distract us from their ongoing deception.
Sometimes their greatest deception is in Christianity, or the facimile thereof.
October 25th, 2007 at 6:10 pm
I think at the crux of this is the “slippery-slope” mentality that many Christians live in. It the same type of thinking that causes withdrawal from society because of the fear that we might become sinful by being around sinners.
I would say there are some kids who probably shouldn’t read the Harry Potter books. Some might have a hard time distingishuing fantasy from reality, but that is something that kid’s parents need to decide. To say that Harry Potter will definitely lead kids to Satanism is like saying that everyone who has ever visited Krispy Kreme will weigh 500 pounds.
The description of magic and/or witchcraft in literature is certainly not new. Shakespeare’s plays are filled with them. The biggest reason people read fiction is the suspension of disbelief. The vast majority of people, even children, can read a work of fiction and realize that it is just that.