she’s baaaack!
Looks like our favorite watchdoggie is back on the wagon. That’s right folks! Ingrid has made the promise
I decided to gradually republish salvageable posts from the past that are of some informational value. …In addition, I will be occasionally adding current news stories minus public comment for the sole purpose of giving out information.
Looks like she missed the old doghouse. However, there were some promising and encouraging words within her explanation post.
The dead orthodoxy and dryness and lifeless textualism in conservative churches is actually propelling the popularity of the false churches. A return to tradition is not the answer. What is needed is a return to a passionate love for our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Only in the Vine, in true fellowship with the Lord, will real life exist. I want to be in the Vine, friends. How about you? Time is short, and how we spend it is desperately important.
for one Ingrid, we agree. Hopefully we can live in the vine together.
October 15th, 2007 at 11:12 pm
HEre is what I do not get from these guys…
1. Christianity Today is a “liberal” magazine so sayeth the ODM’s.
2. Sex is dirty dirty dirty and we should not talk about it expescially at church and from the pulpit.
3. There is no way a “christian” can be addicted to porn and be a real christian.
Now we have all read these and I am sure somewhere out there the source is still floating in cyberspace.
Yet, here we have Ingrid using a “liberal” source and talking about a horrid problem that we need to address… “Christian” women with sexual addiction.
Now, where can we address such an much need to be addressed issue… no where I guess… except in the church, which is wrong as we have already been told so many times.
Now, she points to Beverly LaHay’s version of “the sex god”… errr I mean… oh lets let the article speak for itself…
So we are to not to and to address “sex: issues in the church.
I guess it is if you are an evil “emergent” teaching about sexual purity, then it is wrong, but if you are an approved teacher of the watchdoggies sex talk in churches is fine!
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=17
Now, this is a serous issue for men and women… it was in Corinth also… except they did not have the nice private home porn port we call the Internet.
I applaud Ingrid in here “exposing” this issue, yet wonder… if it can only be done by her so it is done rightly, I hope she spends more time addressing this in her own church… maybe she can confront her pastor for not speaking up against this issue and then lambaste him for doing it!
It all seems so double minded to me… and that she and others of this sort are tossed to and fro by every wave of… her own approval of right and wrong.
Be Blessed,
iggy
October 15th, 2007 at 11:14 pm
I forgot one thing
Oh the relevance of it all… how dare Ingrid be so “relevant” next thing we know she will be pushing us to read scripture very slowly and prayerfully while we think deep and long on what God is saying and let it seep into the very depth of our soul… oh let us comptemplate on that a bit will we?
Be blessed,
iggy
October 16th, 2007 at 1:15 am
I agree with her paragraph you quoted. However, speaking of addiction, searching for and finding negative articles and news clippings about Christians and churches is an internet addiction that is very difficult to break. In many cases it is needed, but it can very quickly envelope your conscious thinking and it can become a redundant exercise that unknowingly puts you in bondage to the very ones you criticize. Subtle but very strong.
And how do you legitimately see a large scale drifting of the church in general and remain humble and broken yourself? I think the answer is for a chronic call for revival in our own lives and churches. And it is sad to see an ODM claim he and his small congregation are all having personal revival in a transparent attempt to insulate himself from being included in the “we all need revival” call.
There will be no genuine revival until we all admit we need it.
Desperately…
October 16th, 2007 at 7:22 am
Saying that Christian women are addicted to sex is one way to get men to come to church, I suppose…
just sayin’…
October 16th, 2007 at 8:43 am
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October 16th, 2007 at 9:14 am
Hey Tim, should we tell Ingrid about Rick’s underground music group which was revealed in the latest audio you published? Halloween 1(The candy-tract movement)!LOL
October 16th, 2007 at 9:17 am
ugh… so sex is bad. christianity today is bad.
but lying when you say you are done forever and never coming back? perfectly okay.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:29 am
The whole “I’m not going to write/comment/etc. again” followed up a couple of months later by reneging and writing/commenting/etc. again I think would be similar to Jesus’ parabolic nod:
October 16th, 2007 at 9:48 am
I am back too; I used to post here occasionally a few months back. I generally sided on the Ken Silva/Ingrid side of things. I have gone through a transformation, so to speak, in the last 6 months or so. God is really opening my eyes to the dangers of fundamentalism, in addition to the merger of politics and Christianity. I have read a few books along the way, The Secret Message of Jesus and now I am reading A New Kind of Christian from McLaren. I don’t know what to think at this point as I am disgusted with the organization of the Christian Religion. I used to go to a dominionitst Pentecostal church that was all about control. Then I went to and Ass. of God which seemed to be more about money. Now I am in a Calvary Chapel, while I like the church the main reason is the Pastor and now he is leaving. I don’t want to stay. I almost want to start going to a McLaren esc church but I don’t think my wife would take that as she is pretty fundamental, even though she doesn’t know what the word means. It is hard as the more that I have learned the more I realize that Christianity is more about controlling the masses than a faith. When I read the introduction to a New Kind of Christian, I felt that I could be writing it myself. I am very frustrated with the faith but it is all I know. I don’t want to stick my head in the sand, and I don’t want to be and unbeliever either. Any thoughts on this from you guys would help me out a lot.
God Bless
October 16th, 2007 at 9:56 am
Jeff,
Oh no! You’ve gone over to the dark side!
Seriously, though, I’m glad to hear you’ve been thinking about things, and I think that God rewards those who earnestly seek Him. I don’t like to think of this a war with battling factions, as it’s just a way of seeing things.
Where are you located? Perhaps someone here can help point you to a good congregation.
Also, the one great thing about the internet is that there is a lot of awesome teaching available online. I highly recommend the Mars Hill (Rob Bell) podcast and the Woodland Hills (Greg Boyd) one. It doesn’t take the place of an actual congregation, but they are helpful.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:22 am
I am in Michigan (North of Detroit), but live too far to go to Bell’s church. I am going to get his books after I read McLaren and Donald Miller, Which I just bought on Amazon.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:37 am
Jeff,
If you’re going to read Rob’s books, I would actually suggest ‘Sex God’ first - despite what some might make of the title, it is about the relationship between God and man, which then translates to our relationships with each other.
Tim or Christian - do you have the Independent Christian Church directory?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:41 am
I’ve got the Michigan Directory at Church. If you’re interested Jeff I can send you some contact info for non-denominational Christian churches, keeping in mind that I don’t know what they’re actually like. Just email me at tim@churchvoices.com and I’ll get back to you.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:44 am
Jeff,
Email me, I used to live in Detroit. I know of some good churches that way. How close are you to Plymouth?
October 16th, 2007 at 10:45 am
Here’s a church directory from Relevant magazine. I don’t know how useful it is though, because churches have to self-register to be on it.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Haha, he’s going to be snowed under in suggestions. I’d go with Joe’s suggestions first since he’s personally familiar with them.
October 16th, 2007 at 10:57 am
Joe,
Hi!
October 16th, 2007 at 11:16 am
Joe
Too far, I am in Sterling Heights. My wife used to work in Plymouth. Nice town.
October 16th, 2007 at 12:31 pm
Jeff - I am very interested to hear your thoughts on the dangers of merging politics and Christianity. I would be glad to share what I believe the Scriptures teach as well.
spcrick@msn.com
October 16th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Jeff, I’ve read through most of NKC, and while I do think there are serious issues raised in it, I’m not sure McLaren has the right answers.
Knowing nothing about your current church specifically, I do have some respect for Calvary Chapel. I would advise not leaving simply because the pastor you like is leaving–the next one may be as good.
As far as mixing politics and religion goes, please understand that EC does that quite a bit, too, or at least parts of it do. I could point out Sojourners Magazine and even McLaren himself as examples of how some in EC try to play at politics.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Well,
Here is my idea about religion and politics. I think politics is important to understand and even be involved. However, I think there is a danger with merging with a certain party. IE the Christian Right. They have basically married the Republican Party. If anyone has been paying attention the Republican Party(this administration) has done more damage to this country, and other IE Iraq, than any other administration in the past. The danger is that many Christians tend to be sheep and not think for themselves, they will take the word of a Dobson, Falwell(RIP) or Robertson without question. I was one of them. This creates a huge electorate that ignores the huge debt, the war mongering, and ignorance of environmental damage. Christians are better than most and looking at things in a dualistic manner. Meaning, I am right and everything else is wrong, good vs evil, God vs Devil, right vs left, Republican vs Democrat. Therefore if God is on the side of Republicans (Since Dobson says so) then he is against the Democrats.
All this really started to come to light for me when I looked into the Republican candidates and noticed Ron Paul. This is a person of utmost integrity, more so than any in both parties. Then I began to question, why do we not hear anything from the “Christian Right” on this guy? Isn’t integrity and values what they should represent? As I began to peal the onion on this issue I began to get more and more disgusted with what I witness from these “leaders” of family values. Add to all this the fact that these guys (many repubs) run under the guise of family values and are nothing of the sort in their personal lives, Vitter and Craig to name only a few.
We live in a free country because it is a secular country; it doesn’t respect any religion over another. However, the Christian viewpoint is that we need the Bible to judge the morals in our society. I don’t agree, we have a constitution that was founded on secularism, and it worked for over 230 years. This republican administration has done a tremendous amount to destroy the constitution under the auspices of “Terror”. I am not afraid, I want to live free, I don’t want my calls monitored, I don’t want my home searched without a warrant, I don’t want a National ID card. That is my quick overview of why Politics and Religion are a bad mix. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why I am wrong.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Jeff,
I would say that Jesus was political, but not in the sense of supporting one political cause over another. He was political because He spoke to power. He basically didn’t conform to anyone’s politics.
As far as Christians supporting different political causes, I would say it is OK and even good to some extent. The problem becomes when loyalty to a cause becomes loyalty to a person or party. Inevitably, what happens then, is that the perpetuation of keeping the person or party in power overtakes the cause.
October 16th, 2007 at 1:54 pm
I don’t think this a topic about politics. If you wish to talk about and debate political things, I would invite you here, http://forums.christianity.com/forumid_34/p_1/tmode_1/smode_1/tt.htm
My point was that you are not going to escape political entanglements by going to an EC church.
October 16th, 2007 at 2:24 pm
Jeff - very good thoughts. You have embarked upon a path that will, if followed, release you from the carnal bondage we know as politics. Democracy is not of God, it was constructed by the humanistic Greeks in order to let fallen man rule himself.
American politics is a disgusting display of lies, braggadocio, obscene amounts of money, and unfulfilled promises no matter who is elected. If my people who are called by My name shall vote! Politics is the dirtiest business of all eclipsing boxing, unions, gambling, and any other organized societal engagement we have invented.
Have I been too subtle? And in 2008 God will give us Hilary Clinton as president and we all agree we are COMMANDED to show her honor and respect. Let the bitterness of that taste bring us to repentance about our joining light with darkness. Jesus is my King and Him alone will I obey, and the only reason I obey the laws of this land is because I obey Him. Pray for revival, it is our only hope!
Thanks for priming my pump, Jeff!
October 16th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
Good thoughts Rick, I agree, what troubles me is to see our faith mixed into that corruption. Our faith will be the thing that falls by the wayside on the corruption.
Jazz,
Sorry for changing the topic.
October 16th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Jeff having lived in the Detroit area for the better part of my 34 years (Detroit, Warren, Centerline, Sterling Heights, Rochester Hills, Pontiac, Mt. Clemens, New Baltimore, Memphis, Utica, and Madison Heights) I have a hard time stomaching that God is for or against any political party.
My hypothesis is that I grew up in a culturally diverse population. I learned that the world is bigger than my myopic view. It was in that enviornment that are saw that there are many, many, many, good people on all sides of the fence. Many, many, many people who need Christ. In my opinion when we marry politics and the church we become divisive and the message of Christ is lost under a landslide of hubris and political rhetoric.
On a personal note… Is the Tubbys Subs at Riverside and Van Dyke still there?
My church recommendations:
Evanswood Church of God (Troy) this is an Anderson, IN COG
Just one actually.
October 16th, 2007 at 8:15 pm
If Ingrid is really serious about “the dead orthodoxy and dryness and lifeless textualism in conservative churches,” she ought to name them just as she is fond of naming apostate churches.
So Ingrid, if you are reading this, please. Name the churches and pastors.
October 16th, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Chris,
That church is about 2 miles from my house, what is the church of God like, I have never been to one. I couldn’t tell you about the tubby’s as I don’t travel on Van Dyke a lot. Sorry.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:07 pm
I go to the Ass. of God, though, when I was a kid and signed it as such in the church guest book, I was told it was important to either write Assbl. of God, or the full name. Because otherwise, it just looks very bad.
October 16th, 2007 at 11:55 pm
Laughing my A…..
Hahahaha
October 17th, 2007 at 7:28 am
Jeff here is there website:
http://www.evanswoodchurch.org/index.html
This is the denominational website:
http://www.chog.org/
October 17th, 2007 at 7:48 am
Very funny, I will remember that…….
October 17th, 2007 at 8:47 am
Hi Chris,
When you coming out to the promised land?
October 17th, 2007 at 8:48 am
There used to be a little deli in Allen Park that sold the best peperoni rolls. I forget the name, it was right off of Outer Park Drive. If I ever have to go back over that way, I will have to stop and see if they’re still there.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:06 am
Its like a scavenger hunt…
… a delicious scavenger hunt.
October 17th, 2007 at 9:59 am
Is it just me, or is there a really large percentage of commenters and writers here who hail from Michigan? I wonder if it means anything.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:09 am
God is stirring the gospel in the darkest of places.
j/k, mostly.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:22 am
I think that Rob Bell once made the comment once that Michigan had one of the sickest religious cultures in the US. Later, I think he may have made a similar comment in reference to having hundreds of instances of small churches within blocks of each other which were from the same denomination but had split over the stupidest of things…
I could be mixing him up with a professor from WTS in Holland, though, so don’t blame Rob if I misquoted…
October 17th, 2007 at 10:25 am
I’m a missionary
October 17th, 2007 at 10:26 am
It was actually a Prof at GRTS in Grand Rapids at commencement a few years ago. Rob quoted him in an interview later.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:29 am
That’s funny considering that there’s a church from the same movement five minutes away from mine that has teh exact same theology. Now, history tells us my church was a church plant from the 1920s, so it was a missionary split, but recently what’s happened is we’ve traded congregants when they get angry at whichever church they had been attending.
October 17th, 2007 at 10:31 am
Sorry, not GRTS, but Calvin.
October 17th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
We in the reformed faith refer to G’ Rap as Mecca.
I’ll be there in 2 weeks
See ya then?
October 17th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
Yeah, let me know more specifics and we’ll hit Beaners errr. Bigby’s. or if I am particularly poor we can always hit panera
October 17th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
I think many got smart and got outta Michigan, I have lived here all my life. Tim is the unfortunate one that moved here from somewhere else……
To be honest Chris, this is what disgusts me about the organization of Christianity. So many sects, and every one is “righter” (yes, righter) than the other. It drives me crazy. Like I said previously, as I read the intro to New Kind of Christian I can relate to McLaren’s feeling of giving up. And I am not even in the ministry. I am sure many of you visit David Hayward’s blog NakedPastor. His cartoons would offend most Christians, too me, they are a breathe of fresh air.
Joe, I am from north of Detroit and don’t get out much, with the economy here, it might do me way to get outta here altogether……..
October 17th, 2007 at 8:11 pm
Joe my treat when we come (us youth pastors make fat cash) I’m probably gonna bring the fam this time but maybe we could have a cohiba and corona in your backyard. : )