blame it one the PD!
I don’t normally address the fringe watchdoggie websites here. However, since a Paula decided to grace us with her presence, I decided to check out her blog. The first article I found really revealed how most of the watchdoggies are operating these days. Paula found an article about a scandal that took place at Calvary Baptist Church of Yorba Linda (no link provided). The story was as follows:
YORBA LINDA – A three-member faction of the board of Calvary Baptist Church of Yorba Linda that opposed informing members of alleged misdeeds by two former pastors gained control of the church Sunday night.
The three met without the other two board members Saturday to pick five new board members, who were all approved by a vote of the congregation Sunday night.
Members who wanted to nominate other candidates were silenced by board member James Hutchings, who told them, “If you can’t get with us, then go.â€
Paula’s one and only closing remark was
Well looks as though they’re lining up the yes-men! And YES they are PD, in case you hadn’t guessed.
I nearly rolled over with laughter. Does she really believe that Purpose-Driven theology caused this church drama? And I would find it very hard to swallow that she actually believes that Purpose Driven churches are the only ones with church splits, hostile board take-overs or leadership scandals. I have been to pleanty of good ol’ fundamentalist churches where business meetings looked more like a war zone than a house of worship. Next time I hear of a church splitting over the color of the carpet, I should probably blame it on the church’s theology. Again, sound like the juicy headlines are out of season these days.
- Humor , Linked Articles , PD/SS , Theology
October 4th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
What’s even funnier is that the screen shot she took has listed “Working Airedales” (I own 2 so we have something in common) Christian Research.net and Pyro in her tabbed browsing.
October 4th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
Another Ingrid. Is the Bible relevant for today? Ask Spurgeon if his wife openly criticized other preachers and churches, and yet these same people claim a kinship with those men of days gone by.
Remember, before you get ice cream you must eat your spinach!
BTW Joe - this is aimed at their hypocrisy and not at another view. They claim one thing and do another, you have never made their claim of judgment and I respect that and you have a different view of gender roles, but they are openly hypocritical.
October 4th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Well, sadly I am allergic to Spinach.
I really am and I truly find it distressing. If I eat it bad bad things happen to me.
October 4th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Hmm… does she know that copying someone’s else’s material without giving a source is called plagiarism? Or even stealing?
She steals, so I bet she goes to a “purpose driven church.” No other church would ever have a person who blatantly steals from other sources without giving credit.
Of course… she also thinks that purpose driven curriculum is “satanic,” so logic and intellectual honesty may not be her strong suit.
And yea Rick - I have laughed at Ingrid for a long time for he hypocrisy on the women issue. She clearly is a “leader” in the “church,” and clearly “teaches,” and is clearly a woman. And she sees no hypocrisy in that.
October 4th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Well in Paula’s attempt to connect P.D. and sin she seemed to miss a few things. For instance the following two articles.
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/atoz/article_1169086.php
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/news/atoz/article_1170298.php
That and the dates of the incident and oh…I don’t know maybe some “discernment” and “research” in her decision to blog about this non-sequiter attempt to connect P.D. to this debacle.
October 4th, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Spam catcher I give you the “evil eye”. Can someone clear my comment from the S.C.
October 4th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
I got your back, Chris!
She quotes from Chris Rosebrough, I wonder if she is Lutheran or at least baptismal regenerational? Only Chris takes an unashamed stand, all the rest hide in the shadows (Ingrid).
October 4th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Ah, yes, Ken’s always at the extreme of logical fallacies, this one being somewhat of an Appeal to Authority fallacy, which takes a bit of chutzpah, since his ‘authority’ is basically that of a Bible study group leader with a blog…
October 4th, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Thanks Rick!
October 4th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Where does she quote Chris R? He’s coming to my house in the next 10 minutes or so and I’ll ask him about it. And doesn’t anyone care that I’m allergic to spinach?
October 4th, 2007 at 5:50 pm
Joe,
She has a link on her page from him.
I care deeply that you’re allergic to spinach. : )
October 4th, 2007 at 6:24 pm
No, you’re right. Purpose Driven just fuels the already self-centered pastor to take the bit in his teeth and run with it. Thank you for blessing me with your fire today!
October 4th, 2007 at 6:25 pm
I was raised Lutheran. I currently attend an AFLC church http://www.aflc.org and no I don’t believe in Baptismal regeneration.
October 4th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
Chris: re: airedales
The finest animal on the planet…
October 4th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
Chris: re: airedales
The finest animal on the planet…
No, German Shepherds.
October 4th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
“Purpose Driven just fuels the already self-centered pastor”
can you please provide evidence on how focusing on evangelism, service, discipleship, fellowship and worship (ie Purpose Driven) fuels self-centered pastors. Or is that all just opinion? Again, that is like saying fundamentalism just fuels the already irrelevant and ineffective pastor.
October 4th, 2007 at 6:51 pm
Paula,
I love my airedales. They are a bit stubborn at times but great dogs.
Have you considered that this “Pastor” did the same thing to the same church in 1987? Long before P.D.
October 4th, 2007 at 6:53 pm
See Paula, I knew I smelled Luther. I was raised Lutheran with all the ceremony and admitted into membership and fellowship. In some ways the litergical ceremony is as bad as the purpose driven conveyor belt.
I am not yet familiar with your branch of Lutheranism. Could you send me what you believe about baptism and communion?
spcrick@msn.com
October 4th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
Joe…if you are alergic to spinach….don’t eat it!
You know…if you read the Purpose Driven Church your alergy to spinach will go away.
(Hey…it could happen)
Peace!
October 4th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Actually, I didn’t have the allergy until I started reading the book so….
October 5th, 2007 at 10:05 am
Still waiting for Paula to justify her plagiarism…
October 5th, 2007 at 10:08 am
Where’s Lance, he’ll be able to justify it for you.
October 5th, 2007 at 2:16 pm
You guys must get a lot of exercise jumping to conclusions. I guess you’d have to be discerning enough to see the dangers of the gospel-light PDL message. Having personally experienced the fallout from a PDL church split, I’m inclined to agree with Paula that there are a lot of churches from purpose-driven division.
October 5th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
Gayle,
If only I had a dime for every time I had to note the following truth:
Correlation is not causation
There are constantly churches in the midst of splits for stupid, petty reasons - whether it is a perceived weakness of the church staff, petty members looking for reasons to nit-pick, or a fight over the color of the carpet. To this date, there is no proof that PD has anything to do with causing or preventing church splits.
At the center of PD ‘methodology’ is the Great Commission and the Greatest Commandments - both of which should be at the core of any church. Churches are made of fallen people, and it is normally the fault of the people - not the methods - for church failure…
October 5th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Have you ever read A.M. or CRN or Slice? If what we are doing here is “jumping to conclusions”; then they must be doing “double-dutch” (jump rope with multiple ropes) over there.
October 5th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Oh yeah…No where in the articles Paula mentions is there a single reference to P.D. She makes the leap to connect it.
Furthermore did you ever consider that maybe the Pastors stealing 3 million dollars from the church may have caused the split?
This was shoddy posting/reporting on the part of Paula at the bare minimum. It was spiteful, mean, and irresponsible at the maximum.
Oh well…It doesn’t really matter.
October 5th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Why, I have my jump to conclusions mat right here!
October 5th, 2007 at 8:40 pm
Personally, I have a terrible chest cold so I’m not doing any jumping. It makes me cough, which hurts way too much.
October 5th, 2007 at 9:25 pm
I’m Paula’s husband and extremely part-time web tech-support person. Two comments.
First, I’m in the process of moving content over to the Blogger account; what’s there now, including this article, was a test run. I can’t tell from my backups whether I accidentally removed an attribution for the article quoted or whether it was never there. Paula’s usually pretty good about that sort of thing, so mea culpa. Regardless, I’ve edited the post to include a link and a comment to that effect.
Second, I may not think that this particular story about this church (though destructive in its own way) is the right context in which to refute PD. But I do think it needs to be questioned very strongly, starting with its own definitions and statements about whether it’s a methodology or a theology, and the ramifications of that distinction.
I just hope no one thinks pointing out lack of source attributions is any sort of defense of PD.
October 6th, 2007 at 10:49 am
Jaes,
Thanks for the clarification. I think it can easily be said that there is no link between methodology and scandals that take place in the church. This seems to be something that happens across the board in the church. Baptists, PD, Emergent, contemporary. It seems like there is no shortage of church scandals in all denominations.
I agree that this situation was not the right context to refute PD. I think that what your wife wrote is happening on a larger scale all over the blogsphere. People have a preconceived notion about PD, emerging, charismatic, etc, and find articles that could support that. Rathet than talking with leaders of these movements, or pastors of these methodologies, people simply feel free to write whatever they please.
There is no consequence, you never have to see the person you just hurt face-to-face, there is no personal interaction. Sometimes I think technology has allowed the worst in humanity to surface along with the best.