MMI comments on the recent Johnny Mac interview here:

Here are some great quotes from John MacArthur from a recent edition of Answers magazine. Great quotes, not because I agree with them… most I do not. They are harsh and many times over reactive, in my opinion. John’s radio program is called Grace to You; but sometimes it appears that that grace is only bestowed on you if you believe exactly as he does. Kind of reminds me of the soup nazi on the old Seinfeld episode. (Seinfeld, for all you MacArthurites, was a popular hit show in the American culture in the 1980s.) His line was… “No Soup for You.” Well, if you’re a pastor who’s reading MMI, it quite possibly could read, “No Grace for You.”

The comment I would add is that JM (and many of his devotees) have forgotten that the theology of how is still theology. When James writes, “But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness” that is every bit as much theology as “saved by grace through faith”.

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13 Comments(+Add)

1   Phil Miller    http://veritasfellowship.blogspot.com
September 20th, 2007 at 8:53 am

This quote struck me as particularly odd:

“All the great heroes of the faith end up becoming fools. And the antiheroes—the fools who compromise and who don’t take a stand—become the heroes…It’s turning history on its head. They undo the Reformation so they can go back to a quasi-Christian, medieval spirituality.”

It is odd because JM seems to be implying that becoming a fool is a bad thing. It seems to me that throughout history, God has asked many people to become fools in the eyes of the world (and the Church) for His glory. I also have no idea who he is talking about when he uses the word “anti-hero”.

2   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
September 20th, 2007 at 9:15 am

I read those quotes and as a person of the hated “emerging” I have not heard anyone state the things JM is saying is being stated… I think he is missing that we are saying the bible cannot be understood with out the Holy Spirit revealing the truth… yet, JM promotes the lie and people like Faye over at Hope in Laodicea eat it up and spit it out as true.

It seems that JM has convinced himself of many lies and has no thought of actually looking into these things if they are true or not… or bothering to place comments into its context.

Yes, Spencer Burke espouses universalism… and Tony Jones uses bad language and referred to the bible as really scary book (using a strong profanity before scary) yet, most of us do not hold to those things and are still looking into some of the teachings that could be “traditions of men” over the clear teachings that are there.

JM over generalizes… it is like saying everyone at grace to you teaches grace but has no idea what it really is… may believe that as true… as from my perspective I have seen it as that, yet I suppose there are a half dozen or so that have gone to Masters and have a strong grasp on God’s Grace…

It amazes me that JM cannot hear others… and seems happy to inspire hate toward those who claim Jesus as their savior.

I just wonder if one day, JM will stand before God and say, “Lord, Lord, didn’t I fight for truth in your Name?” along with those who state, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” Because if it is all about JM and his fight for truth, then it is not about truth at all it is about John MacArthur.

Now, I love JM enough in Christ to state these things… and I pray that one day JM will see what the Bible teaches.

1 Peter 1:22

“Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart. ”

This is the point of Truth… that we have sincere love for one another… and not fight for some “objective, detached, abstract, ideal” that many have come to take as truth… They have began to fight for Plato’s dualism instead of coming to the Person of Jesus who is Truth incarnate.

Be blessed,
iggy

3   Tim Reed    http://churchvoices.com
September 20th, 2007 at 9:35 am

The only time I’ve heard antihero applied is in a literary context. It usually describes a bad guy who is the main character and has attractive enough qualities to hold the viewers attention. In pop-culture the Punisher would qualify.

4   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
September 20th, 2007 at 9:48 am

JM has a “rationalized” theology and belief… which is anti biblical… He believes man can reason his way to understand salvation… that is a lie, yet that is what he states:
“This is not an intellectual movement. This is not a movement that has discovered evidence that overturns inspiration, evidence that overturns inerrancy or authority. This is a movement born of people who do not want to accept the clarity of Scripture.”
“To claim that the Bible is not sufficiently clear is to assault God’s own wisdom and integrity.”

This goes against what IS clear in scripture.

Paul states: 1 Cor 1: 26-31

Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”

I think one of the theme verses of the emerging “movement” (which I still am not one to call it that as it is a conversation which give a lot more flexibiblty) should be:

1 Peter 2:15

For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men.

Be Blessed,
iggy

5   chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
September 20th, 2007 at 9:50 am

I may be the first to suggest this, probably not, I think JM and Ingrid and Ken get traction out of being knee-jerky on everything that smatters of emergent. I think they purposely find things to expose to keep the light on themselves. In a strange way they exist because of the emergent movement. If not for the emergents they would be holed up in their corner of the blogosphere with nary a look from Christianity Today.

6   M.G.    
September 20th, 2007 at 10:17 am

I”m surprised that he used the term “spiritual terrorism.” Wow.

That’s really rather reprehensible. It, simultaneously, defames those in the emergent conversation while making light of “real” terrorism. Terrorism is when evil men fly planes into buildings. It’s not another edition of Velvet Elvis.

Yes, I realize that spiritual doctrine is a matter of life and death. But let us all keep some perspective.

7   Tim Reed    http://churchvoices.com
September 20th, 2007 at 10:28 am

Even if you relegate “terrorism” as a metaphor, and relegate it only to the rhetorical realm its still, at the very least, an unfair label as terrorism is an immoral way to advance a cause. There’s nothing immoral in how the e/e has grown, even if you disagree with them on every single issue.

8   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
September 20th, 2007 at 10:45 am

“It allows them not to take a position on homosexuality, premarital sex, or anything, besides ‘Let’s light some candles and incense, think good thoughts about Jesus, and give to the poor.’”

When JM states things like this he misses that we are working on biblical means to address these things…

Again, produce one quote that condones and approves these things… Brian McLaren has stated homosexuality is a sin… yet it is how we are addressing this sin through political means and by isolating it as the “most evil of all sins” that is the issue. McLaren is asking for perspective on all of human sexuality and how we should address it… that include homosexuality and premarital sex… so this is way out of line and a fabricated lie…

It seems that JM has not sense of perspective as chris stated and that I agree it is more about JM having his time in the media to promote himself than about “truth”.

Again, as some accuse me on not doing… even when I have the direct source and quote… Show me evidence of Brian or anyone stating these things are “OK” and “Good” and “not a sin”… there may be one or to on the fringe… but these accusaiton are against people like McLaren…

I have asked this for over two years now… without one person giving me anything.

One actual quote… that is all I ask for.

Blessings,
iggy

9   chris    http://agendalesslove.wordpress.com
September 20th, 2007 at 11:05 am

On a reread of my comment I realized (and was convicted) that my statment implies that JM only has the emergent movenment to keep him going. That is innaccurate and unfair. My apologies to JM.

10   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
September 20th, 2007 at 11:07 am

Who thinks of Luther, Calvin, Edwards, Spurgeon, Zwingli, Huss, and all the others as fools? Are they not revered now? That particular quote seems very odd. Maybe I’m missing the point?

11   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
September 20th, 2007 at 11:16 am

chris,

if not the emerging movement it would be something else… like the charismatics or the liberals or the “non- Lordship” people… though most of those “enemies” have gotten a bit boring in their debates, I think your view valid as that seems to be the “SOP” of JM.

Blessings,
iggy

12   Dave N    
September 25th, 2007 at 3:57 am

I find it very odd that you would claim JM is “ignorant” when it comes to understanding the Word of God. You seem to be ignoring the message and attacking the messenger. Maybe you should step back and examine yourself before you attack an individual. JM is not hating, but loving. He’s not attacking an individual, but a false doctrine. Maybe instead of attacking John, you could attack the very doctrine he is defending, Biblically? If you feel the doctrine he is defending is false (or as you put it, a lie) lets hear it. I would love to. His doctrine can be found here: http://www.gracechurch.org/home/doclib.asp?ministry_id=1&dlcat=Doctrinal+Statement

13   Chris L    http://www.fishingtheabyss.com/
September 25th, 2007 at 7:55 am

Dave,

While you might not find what you’re looking for in this thread, you might try some of these, these or these… (just for starters)