Critics Know Who the Elect Are
Posted by Matt B on Aug 28th, 2007
2007
Aug 28
A certain football player gave a statement yesterday, apologizing for his involvement in an animal cruelty case. He did play the “God” card, claiming that since the incident, he has “found Jesus.”
While I am skeptical about whether this is true faith, to make fun of him or his claims of faith serves no good purpose. We don’t know if he is a Christian, only God knows this.
Seems like CR?N needed a hit piece.
August 28th, 2007 at 4:28 pm
Matt B. - I saw this post also and read it to my wife and we were grieved. How dare we sit in foreknowledge judgment of a man who publicly says he found Jesus. Can we not at least cautiously rejoice and hope that the Spirit has converted him during this time of need?
And this satirical sentence is especially disgusting and incredibly self righteous:
“Hmm, oddly enough his sentencing hearing isn’t until December 10. But that couldn’t have any bearing on “brother” Mike’s coming to Jesus, could it?”
I can hardly believe the cynicism of these people. To push the guy down before he even has a chance to prove himself just reinforces the view of Christianity that the world has and the “attack dogs” piece from a reporter. And if indeed Mike Vick eventually exhibits that he is not a Christian, these same vicious flesh eaters will rise high atop their electron pulpits and pronounce “We told you so” and relish in it.
I cannot help but believe that is what they’re hoping for, after all Vick’s court date is looming. I’m sure the fires of intercession will be burning until December 10th. Everyone who took some delight in pre-judging Vick’s confession of faith ought to be ashamed. Don’t worry, if he falls you’ll have plenty of material for another post.
As a matter of fact, prepare a draft so you can post immediately after he falls! That pompous attitude is a disgrace to the name of Christ. Repent.
August 28th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
BTW - I knew a man who had gotten into legal troubles. He was a drug user, immoral, a drinker and brawler, and he even was involved with plans to rob a bank and kill the guard. When he reached bottom he ended up on the street until his aunt took him in.
Predictably, he “found Jesus” before his court issues were resolved and everyone viewed it with “tongue in cheek”. How convenient was his new found faith. When he walked into the courtroom six months later with his hair cut, his clothes clean, and a totally differnt look all his past friends laughed at his attempt to coerce the judge to go easy on him.
That man was me and by God’s grace I was transformed by my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in spite of the mockers. So go ahead and mock, God can still save people like me and Mike Vick in spite of the cynical laughter by those who ironically were as sinful as Vick but have been saved by God’s grace.
August 28th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Rick I too find Christ in my darkest hours; and there were plenty of mockers who said “It’s not true conversion”. That could not have been farther from the truth.
I found it particulary ironic that they used a secular paper to bolster their case of Vicks so called “false’ conversion.
August 28th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Ken wrote, “This “conversion” as the joke it is.”
The secular media sees much of Christianity as a joke. Don’t you think they roll their eyes at John MacArther when he is on Larry King Live?
Ken: They don’t have the truth. You do. Don’t be cynical like them. When someone confesses Christ, we pray for them and encourage them in discipleship. That is our position. If he is lying or if he falls, that’s between him and God.
Was Paul’s conversion a joke, the day after he was blinded?
August 28th, 2007 at 6:42 pm
Not me I was born a Calvinist and was “elect” before God made this big mud ball!
j/k
LOL!
I laid out my life story on my blog… if one is interested.
http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/search?q=42+years+ago
be blessed,
iggy
August 28th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
I was told, the day after becoming a Christian, by a couple of elder brothers in the faith: “You became a Christian last night? HA! You’ll never last!”
There are lots of “found Jesus” attempts to manipulate courts and churches, but there are also lots of us who were assumed to be “fake” or “unreachable”, whom God is His infinite mercy and grace saved anyways.
Thanks for sharing a bit of your story, Rick!
August 28th, 2007 at 8:28 pm
Seriously asking: If “only God knows this” (whether Vick is genuinely converted), what, if any, do Jesus’ words “by their fruit you will know them” mean? Do they apply to this situation? If not, where?
I hope that Vick is sincere. From all accounts, he is a man that (just like all of us) needs Christ. I hope it is real, but I have to admit I’m a little skeptical. The timing does seem a little convenient, but I’m willing to wait and see if we’re seeing Vick’s timing or God’s.
August 28th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Keith - Sure they apply and time will bear it out. But to be so initially sacastic is fleshly. All of us have some level of doubt, but to publicly mock him is unseemly and unchristian.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
Keith,
I understand your cynicism, but at the same time I recognize that many people only respond to Christ when they’ve hit bottom.
August 28th, 2007 at 11:10 pm
I’m going to admit that I’m having a hard time buying Vick’s sudden conversion, I think I’m biased against him because of the animal cruelty (that really turns my thermostat up…). Not trying to be overly harsh, just being honest.
That said, even if his conversion is self-serving (”if…”) then God is great enough to turn that small mustard seed into great fruit for the Kingdom. That’s what I’m praying towards…
That’s what can happen when God is sovereign over the salvation of man :).
…
(I just had to say it…don’t get too upight)
August 29th, 2007 at 6:08 am
Keith
Isn’t Gods timing always convenient?
August 29th, 2007 at 7:05 am
On the Michael Vick situation, while I am outraged by his lack of compassion and cruelty, I am at the same time amazed at the attention this has received. There have been several NFL and other prominent sports figures who have ben arrested on spousal abuse and even murder, and I don’t remember it getting this kind of attention. I even heard it refered to as ‘murdering dogs’ on TV last night.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:29 am
Keith, we have until the end of our lives to meet Christ as our Lord and Savior before we next meet Him at the end of our lives as Judge. I’m sure the thief on Jesus’ right had very little time to bear fruit for anyone to inspect, or develop a perfect theology, but I believe the words of Jesus and that the thief is in paradise at this moment.
As for Vick, I’m still wrestling with my cynicism on this. I mean, he says he sorry, but is he sorry he did those things or that he got caught? His handlers have also been keeping him under wraps, got rid of the braids and cut his hair (no thuggeration, Mike) for his court date. Okay, so much for the externals.
He says he found Jesus. Well, there are lots of Jesuses to be found and received, along with a different gospel and a different spirit. You can even have a sincere encounter with the god of your understanding and still be sincerely wrong. But we’re not allowed to delve into those issues before you get hit with “Judge not or you will be judged!” But we know that’s not what Jesus was talking about.
Queen Isabella decided to snuff out heresy in the RCC by testing the purity of men’s souls. The Inquisition followed.
We’re allowed to examine the fruit, but not to condemn, uproot and burn the tree for not producing fruit on demand. God will deal with the tares and the nonproductive trees, not us.
Jeffrey Dahmer by most accounts got saved before he was killed in prison. He didn’t have much time to yield fruit as we reckon it. Being in jail dealing with the consequences of his actions had something to do with that. But if he was saved, are you looking forward to meeting him in Heaven?
August 29th, 2007 at 7:33 am
Thank God, we are not the one’s who have to decide who is sincere and who isn’t.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:35 am
Like I said, I think Ken Silva wanted to do a hit piece. Perhaps his clicks were down. This is why I didn’t spell out the culprit’s name. I didn’t want to do a hit piece.
August 29th, 2007 at 7:36 am
Someone help me out here:
Remember the Seinfeld episode where George discovered “yadda yadda yadda” and overused it to the point that it lost its meaning?
It seems like the same thing has happened with some calling everything and everyone they disagree with emergent.
I’ve heard it for years now, but never got a concise definition of ECM or emerging.
Any takers?
August 29th, 2007 at 7:38 am
Sandman-
I remember when everything and everyone was being called “New Age”.
August 29th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Chris, Rick, Joe, Tim: All good points.
We’re allowed to examine the fruit, but not to condemn, uproot and burn the tree for not producing fruit on demand. God will deal with the tares and the nonproductive trees, not us. Amen.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:13 am
“Thank God, we are not the one’s who have to decide who is sincere and who isn’t. ”
Amen, Joe.
August 29th, 2007 at 10:58 am
Matt B, I remember New Age, and before that liberal, neo-evangelical and ecuminical. At the time, these were used by some churches that were stagnating or declining to describe other churches where a lot of stuff was going on and good things were happening.
I think Heaven may be ecuminical, so I don’t know some of these folks are going to do.
But emerging/emergent has me stumped because it’s being thrown around by everyone for everything, which is why I’m looking for a better definition.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:21 am
Sandman - If Jesus should tarry I believe the emergent movement will crystalize into several sections. And unless I am wrong, the divide will be over the definition of the gospel.
I hope I’m wrong.
August 29th, 2007 at 11:29 am
This may shock a few of you, but I have written that “emerging” will be a passing fad of sorts…. not negating that it is a movement of God as I see it, yet a thing that is “emerging” will finally “emerge” and as Rick stated “crystallise”.
I see it more as adolesence… as I think we have been held in a sort of infancy sine the Reformation… that we head out the door very well but still got stuck in much the same thing… exept the exchange was the Papisty for the Bible… not a bad thing, but we never grew…
Now, I see a growth… It is that we are back to the bible and looking at doctrines to see which are sound and which are man made… what is important and what is none essential…
I see that as we grow the there will be no need for the “emerging” but it is my hope that once we emerge, we not see it as THE ARRIVAL, but as a constant seeking and growing.
Emerging is the root that is busting through the dirt… for all the critique, it has yet to bear real fruit… It has bore some fruit, but more in the form of ideals and not praxis…
Surprised?
Blessings,
iggy
August 29th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
“I remember New Age, and before that liberal, neo-evangelical and ecuminical.”
Don’t forget when the boogey-man was “secular humanism”!
August 29th, 2007 at 1:38 pm
Doesn’t Halloween and subliminal messages in music figure into this somwewhere?
August 29th, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Remember Robbymac - Kissinger is the anti-christ!
August 29th, 2007 at 4:07 pm
“Don’t forget when the boogey-man was “secular humanismâ€!”
Before that it was “modernism”… yet now according to Phil Johnson’s poster I guess modernism is a good thing…(?)
Blessings,
iggy
August 29th, 2007 at 4:32 pm
Nothing new under the sun and everything old is new again, eh?
August 29th, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Sandman - let’s break out the bell bottoms and do the hoola hoop!
August 29th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
You know, Rick, you are tempting me.