I’m linking to this without comment.

  • Share/Bookmark
This entry was posted on Monday, August 27th, 2007 at 10:27 am and is filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+/- Collapse/Expand All

6 Comments(+Add)

1   David C    http://davidcho.blogspot.com
August 27th, 2007 at 12:38 pm

Can anyone explain the “Authority” poster?

Why should anyone besides Scripture be an “authority?”

Didn’t we go through the Reformation to rid the church of papal tyranny? Isn’t Christ the only Mediator? And isn’t Scripture the only “Authority”?

Why should John MacArthur be any more authoritative than the guy next door who studies the Bible? MacArthur may be more versed in Scripture, but that does not make the man more authoritative than the homeless guy down the street.

Phil Johnson’s biggest beef his “critique” of the Emergent Church seems to be the Emergents’ dislike of authority. I can hear the Catholics say DITTO of the reformed fundamentalists.

2   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2007 at 12:55 pm

“I can hear the Catholics say DITTO of the reformed fundamentalists. ”

A good observation, David. That is why I encourage dialogue and exchange rather than mocking posters. For instance:

Ten men stand on stage in an auditorium. They are asked about what are the necessary fruits that substantiate a person’s conversion. All ten men answer differently. The moderator asks each man how he came to his conclusion. This time each man answers the exact same way:

“I got my answer from the Bible!”

So every evangelical boasts the Bible as his source but even the reformed/Calvinist/neo-reformed/et.al. group has many different views about even basic issues about baptism, conversion, missions, 0 – 5 points and other issues. So, how do we speak to these issues and how can just saying “I believe the Bible” relieve us of delving deeper into the Scriptures?

Questions = heresy in some quarters. The answer? Posters that humorously mock any question that might make me address something that I consider illegitimate and unBiblical.

3   David C    http://davidcho.blogspot.com
August 27th, 2007 at 1:13 pm

Rick, that is why I have trouble with traditional gender roles in churches.

Women should not have “authority” over men, they say. Before discussing that, I would like to know how anyone has authority over others. How does that work?

Certainly I can understand organizational authority. The elder are in charge and if they choose to give the pastor a big pay raise, they have “authority” to do so. It is organizational authority, and NOT spiritual authority.

Everybody should read this piece about spiritual abuse. What the author says about abusive churches is telling. He describes the watchdog mindset to a T.

1. Power-posturing. Those in leadership positions spend a lot of time and energy reminding others of their authority. Authority is used to boss and control members of God’s family.

2. Performance preoccupation. How people act is more important than what’s really going on in their lives. People aren’t what is loved and accepted. Behavior is the most important thing.

3. Unspoken rules. How relationships function is governed by rules that aren’t said out loud, but in many cases these unspoken rules have more weight than the out-loud rules or even Scripture. The most powerful and damaging of all the unspoken rules is the “can’t talk” rule. This rule keeps the truth quiet because the problem itself isn’t treated as the problem; talking about it is treated as the problem. People who notice problems and confront them are labeled divisive and disloyal. People shut up and call it unity.

4. Lack of balance. There are disproportionate focuses and values placed on certain areas of the Christian life. For instance, you must agree that certain gifts of the Spirit aren’t for today or you’re labeled “unstable” or “deceived.” In other churches, if you lack certain spiritual gifts or don’t exercise the gifts in ways accepted by the group, you are considered a second-class Christian.

5. Spiritual paranoia. There is a sense that people, resources, and relationships outside the system are unsafe.

6. Misplaced loyalty. A sense of loyalty is built toward programs, things, and people, rather than toward Jesus.

7. Secretiveness. Certain information is deemed suitable only for those within the church or only for certain people within the church.

4   Rick Frueh    http://judahslion.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2007 at 1:21 pm

David – I’m not sure how we segued into the gender issue but without hysteria I respectfully have another opinion.

“I got my opinion from the Bible”

5   David C    http://davidcho.blogspot.com
August 27th, 2007 at 3:47 pm

It is the whole concept of one having spiritual authority over others.

Men have “spiritual authority” over women. The senior pastor has authority over the congregation. The Bible study group leader has authority over his pupils.

How does a human being have spiritual authority over another? I thought we hashed this out during the Reformation and decided to follow Scripture which says Christ is our Mediator, not clergy.

But in authoritarian fundamentalist churches (such as Phil Johnson’s), there is so many layers of spiritual authority, the most prominent of which is men over women.

How is anyone above anyone? How did the happen after the Reformation?

6   iggy    http://wordofmouthministries.blogspot.com/
August 27th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

Interestingly Spurgeon wrote quite a bit against modernity… so here are the “moderns” fighting for “modernity” and claim to read the teachings of Spurgeon who was a pre-modernist… there is so much irony and double minded thinking over there I am not sure how anyone can take them serious anymore… I don’t. They seem to be imploding and losing sight of their so called ideals…

That happens when you stop seeking after Jesus and begin fighting for your own kingdoms. (I know from experience! LOL!)