This Is What Happens When the Church Fails to Remain Faithful to the Correct Preaching and Teaching of God’s Word
Oak Hills Church has posted their September sermon series. From the site:
“Hole in My Life”: Everyone has to make the decision to follow Christ and stay on the path to full devotion
“Spirits in a Material World”: We have to plug-in to God and others at our weekend services.
“So Lonely”: We have to charge-up to become like Christ in small group gatherings.
“Driven to Tears”: We have to live-out our faith by serving at Oak Hills or in our community.
“Message in a Bottle”: Live a missional life.
Who could argue with that? You start with a decision to follow Christ and stay on the path to full devotion, go on to serving those in your church, then move on to small groups for discipleship, then on to serving your community at large, and finally living your entire life in a radical, Christ honoring way.
Who could object to that kind of sermon series?
I bet you can guess who it might be, as our watchdoggie friends demonstrate yet again that that when they evaluate the church its all about style for them.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:45 pm
I do have a problem with mixing secular rock groups with the preaching of God’s Word. It gives credibility to groups like the Police, whoever they are.
I also have a problem with a non-ordained woman criticizing a church pastor as if she had a calling from God to rebuke him.
So I declare it a tie.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:52 pm
Henry,
Do you have a problem with illustrations in a sermon being culled from non-Christian sources? If not I fail to see the difference between that and this. If so, I fail to see who’s sermons you’ll be listening to.
August 15th, 2007 at 4:54 pm
Is there a reason you did not include the following from the same source website: Each week we’ll explore the music of the band “The Police” and the questions they raise about life ? (Emphasis mine)
Personally, I like a couple of those songs, but once again fail to understand the necessity to use this type of “hook” for a sermon series.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
“Do you have a problem with illustrations in a sermon being culled from non-Christian sources?”
Of course I do not, but how this series is orchestrated gives the impression that some secular rock songs have insight into Biblical issues. I just don’t see the need. There is enough Biblical meat to stand alone without secular enticements.
Next week “Jethro Tull’s Aqualung gives insight into man’s depravity”.
The following week “Those who won’t listen are “Thick as a Brick”.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
We might as well glean some biblical insight from Marilyn Manson. Just where do we stop and why?
August 15th, 2007 at 5:17 pm
I don’t know, these sermons don’t indicate apostasy or heresy, but they sure seem pretty shallow to me. I think sometimes pastors try too hard to be trendy or cutting edge. Personally, if I saw a sermon series like that, it would make me want to turn the other way. It seems so trite.
I don’t think you have to be a fundamentalist to preach a good, expository sermon. Rob Bell is good example of what I’m talking about. He use a few pop culture references every now and then, but they certainly don’t seem to be his starting point. Most of his sermons take a biblical passage or two and explain the material in depth.
August 15th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
Henry (Rick),
you never heard about “the Police”, “Sting”? To be fair, I think they have already established their credibility in the (secular) music world. Funnily enough, one of their most celebrated hits could be an anthem for the “watchers”. It goes something like
“Every breath you take,
And every move you make,
Every bond you break, every step you take,
I’ll be watching you.”
August 15th, 2007 at 5:33 pm
Robbo - yea, I’ve heard that song and I know about Sting. That’s funny.
OK, here’s my series.
All You Need is Love - The emergent church.
Paint it black - The watchman ministry
Hello, Goodbye - The Seeker Church
Que Sera, Sera - Calvinism
A Day in the Life - The Purpose Driven Life
Somewhere Over the Rainbow - The Gay Church
August 15th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Okay settle down…Just because their taking the titles from Police songs doesn’t mean the sermons aren’t going to be solid meat.
I think it’s a good idea but I’m just a heretic youth pastor teaching watered down gospel to appease the masses and grow my numbers.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Has anyone heard these sermons? Can’t we wait until we actually listen to them before we declare they are apostate or not?
August 15th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
Matt,
I wasn’t so much concerned by the titles as I was the summaries posted. They just sounded pretty lame to me, honestly. Very junior high-ish sounding to me. Who knows, though, maybe they’ll be better than the titles and summaries let on. Also, I don’t think they should be called apostate because of it, regardless.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
There is a vast difference between shallow and apostate. Unless of course you are…you know who.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:38 pm
Henry,
Toooooo funny!
August 15th, 2007 at 6:43 pm
They do seem a bit basic, but I don’t really have a problem with the occasional sermon series that’s accessible to people who aren’t all that familiar with Christianity.
And if we’re really honest once you get behind the first one, many Christians could use the urging to get off their butts and get to work.
August 15th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
On the topic of ‘the basics’ - typically, the church I attend (which would probably be classified as a ‘megachurch’ since we run 3,600 on a normal Sunday) targets two times each year for sermons covering ‘the basics’, as a refresher for more mature believers and as a basis for discussion (in small groups) for new believers/seekers. These two times are mid-August (when school is coming into session - a high-traffic time) and around Easter (when you’re also likely to have a higher than normal visitor group).
Last year, the series was titled “Finding God on My iPod”, using some popular songs as a lead-in.
Typically, in the few weeks after that, we cover aspects of our relationship with God in times of distress (since one of the number one questions new Christians or curious unbelievers tend to ask is around the topic of “why do bad things happen to good people?”). This summer/fall, we’re doing a 16-week series through Revelation, with one of the upcoming sermons dealing with the church at Smyrna (”remain faithful unto death…”) and the persecuted church (which will hit on this topic).
Other than these two periods, Christmas week and Easter, we delve into a variety of topics/books of the Bible - sometimes with themes which might have a ‘pop culture’ appearance (like the one from Oak Hills, above), but which basically use that reference in the introduction and possibly in the conclusion of the message.
Certainly it sometimes feels a little trite, but not everyone is in the same place, maturity-wise, so I am gracious in the more basic times and do get application to my own life from these lessons, and I enjoy (probably more than most) when we start digging in with a little more meat and scholarship.
I think that too often we expect to “have it our way” most, if not all, of the time, and that this selfishness can lead to church splits, and spleen-venting (whether it is Ingrid pining for the hymns or a GenY blogger dissing the organ) that serves nobody but the critic…
August 15th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
OK, on the other extreme here are a list of sermons that avoid pandering to the non-elect:
The Stench of Sulfur in Hell
Muslims - Go Back Where You Came From!
Go Ahead and Seek Death - You Will Not Find It!
Rick Warren - a Candidate for the Anti-christ!
Apostacy - Everyone but Us!!
August 15th, 2007 at 7:36 pm
Henry, I think you meant to say
Harry Potter Fans Unite!
August 15th, 2007 at 7:57 pm
As for the sermon series there is a difference between “I think the series is going to be lame” and it actually being lame, AND it actually being lame.
And as Henry pointed out even if it is lame (a title I’m not sure I appreciate because I used to preach 49-50 Sundays a year) we’re still a long way off from Heretic land.
As for using the band, I love all music and I do think that using a secular band if it is tied back into Scripture can be useful.
August 15th, 2007 at 8:38 pm
Many churches in my area consider September the start of church season, sort of speak. Perhaps this series is intended to introduce people back to Christianity.
August 15th, 2007 at 10:22 pm
serious question… has Ken Silva taken his ball and gone home???
Did i miss a banning? Or the mot juste that finally closed his mouth permanently here?
August 16th, 2007 at 7:58 am
Bob,
Ken is not banned, but he is on moderation. When he posts one-liners and put-downs, those stay in moderation for several hours so as to deny the instant gratification (and to prevent threadjacking).
He did announce his intention to not post here any more, though he broke that about 3 days later, and 4, 5, 6… etc.
August 16th, 2007 at 8:19 am
Ha!
So basically, he’s in time-out.
Beautiful.
August 16th, 2007 at 8:21 am
By the way, this is for you: Discernment
From here
August 16th, 2007 at 9:39 am
Just a thought on sermon series…
My opinion (as a youth pastor) is that the church (sunday sermons) should not be about us (serious christians) and what we need to grow. If we call ourselves serious christians we should have enough spiritual discipline to continue to seek out meat. Sure there are times that challenges from the preacher should spurn us onto greater depth in our walk but I’m of the firm opinion that the church is about meeting the spiritual needs of those who don’t know Christ. Don’t take that to mean “seeker sentistive” or “emergent” but this is how I understand “the great commission” and “to the Jew I became like a Jew etc…”
August 16th, 2007 at 10:11 am
Chris,
I would say that for something like a youth service, it might make sense to have a more evangelistic service, but I still think that a Sunday service should be more for teaching. That’s not to say there can’t be evangelistic elements in given services, but by definition the church is the collection of believers. Yes we need to make every effort to make non-Christians welcome, but I think we can still do that while getting more in-depth. I think the pastor’s role in a congregation on Sunday morning is primarily to speak prophetically into that congregation.
The main problem I have with a church service being seen as an evangelistic tool is that I think people seem to get the idea that evangelism is just inviting someone to a church service. In reality, it’s something they need to live all week. On the same note, the Sunday service shouldn’t be the only time people are learning. Both discipleship and evangelism need to be continuous processes throughout the week.
August 16th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I love dogma.
August 16th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
I’ve always been a bit concerned about churches and people trying to Christianize things that are not nor ever were Christian, and probably ought not be Christianized, but that doesn’t mean they should never be addressed in church from the pulpit; preaching and teaching to equip the saints.
In some ways, I believe some non-believers are more intellectually honest than some of us believers. At least they will give voice to the same questions, doubts and anger that we may have from time to time, but keep silent lest we be called a heretic or apostate or be struck dead.
From what I understand, some of the OT writers, under inspiration, quoted and pulled references from hymns and literature of other ancient Mesopotamian cultures to contrast their thinking and power of their gods with the one true God in a way that everyone could understand. So I don’t understand why someone would get up in a snit and walk out in the middle of a sermon because a famous non-Christian was quoted as part of a point that was being made. (In one of her blog entries at SoL 1.0, Ingrid talks about she and her family doing this once when visiting a church.)
I grew up with too many people who were so adrift that many times their worldviews either echoed or were formed by whatever popular song was playing on the radio. Check out the lyrics to Billy Joel’s “Only the Good Die Young†(“I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints – the sinners are much more funâ€). Now that’s an interesting — and rather ignorant – view to hold that’s worth exploring and exploding, and showing what a vain philosophy it is. It may not be the totality of their perspective, but it’s crystallized to the point where we, if properly armed, can deal with that person (with gentleness and patience, of course).
But aren’t we supposed to be ready at all times with an answer? But, if you’re so busy being put off by someone’s tattoos, hairstyle and color, piercings and manner of dress to even get to where they are with Jesus, what good are you?
August 16th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Sandman makes some good points, especially about being ready at all times with an answer. But, the question I have is what do you mean by “Christianize”? Do you mean claim that a secular work of art is completely in line with Christian teachings? Because I don’t do that, and I don’t think this particular church is doing that.
August 16th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Tim asks:
Yes, very close to that.
I think it’s fine to bring up a theme in a song or movie or book, and examine what it’s saying scripturally. That is what Oak Hills seems to be doing.
It’s a totally different thing to take something that is not Christian, or universally condemned in the Bible, say…”white” witchcraft or some other occult/pagan practices, baptize it, spiritualize it, sprinkle Jesus on it here or there, and voila! it’s been redeemed and is now presentable to Christians.
The real problem is that it’s not necessarily my church, Ingrid’s church or your church doing that; it’s the lookalikes: unitarian/universalists or it’s Marianne Williamson and her “new thought” Church of Today or some other religion that has no problem using Jesus to advance their agenda. And they use the media to call attention to it.
August 18th, 2007 at 2:20 pm
The Police are really old. Even older than me. They don’t score enough “Relevancy Points”.
How ’bout a sermon series based on Linkin Park?
Henry (Rick), your original set of song titles was absolutely HILARIOUS. Thanks for giving me a good laugh with my morning coffee. I’m sure the stains on my computer monitor will fade with time…
August 20th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Wait til Voldemor, oops, see our sermon series, “The Gospel according to Axel Rose”. No, really….That’s what happens with a heretic for a pastor….:)
…we’re going through 1 Peter right now…I personally like expositional sermons, I’m a big fan of the Calvary Chapel method….