Will the REAL clone please stand up?
It seems that the new tactic of the watchdoggies is to claim that all purpose-driven/emerging/emergent/ Harry Potter churches are simply clones of one another. That there really isn’t anything new going on with this new movement, and most of the people involved can’t think for themselves or are simply little worker bees doing as told. I find it funny coming from the people who are calling for all communities of faith to have pews, hymns, three piece suits and an institutionalized methods of church. And the emerging church is the cloned one?
There was recently a checklist published entitled “How to Make a Relevant Pastor Blog.†It was designed to show how all relevant pastors today really are just drones. 10 out of the 13 points listed were superficial, dealing with music, photos and the language people use. I often wonder why these leaders feel it necessary to cut down people in ministry for simple aesthetics or the things they enjoy in life.
Sometimes I think it is out of fear. Fear that they are quickly loosing touch with this generation, and watching their communities die. Fear from not understanding an ever changing would in which they now find themselves. Fear that their way of doing things is slowly being replaced with other methods (and I say that with all sincerity, sympathy and sadness). I can understand why many of these writers would respond out of fear like this. But, I guess if you can’t beat them, then just make fun of their clothes
July 20th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
It is right, it is fear that they’ve been so passed by they don’t matter anymore (dare I say that they’re irrelevant? Or would I be a clone for using the same words?).
I find it interesting that in several places the watch poodles have cheered on those who make trouble in their church when their churches start changing so that they actually matter. Notice the phrasing in that article, “Perhaps they’ve already invaded your camp and have cast you atop the scrap pile of trouble makers.” The problem isn’t that his readers are trouble makers, the problem is the scrap pile part. Notice there is no suggestion that trouble making needs to go, the problem is everyone else in their church who are changing it.
ANyone else find it hilarious that at the bottom he links to a checklist of his own? It seems the problem isn’t that there’s similarities, its just that they’re the wrong similarities.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Would it be in bad taste to respond with a “How to Make a Conservative Discernment Blog” checklist?
Probably, but it would be funny.
July 20th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
Shallow people can’t go deep…
It’s a fact.
Deep calls to deep…
Blessings,
iggy
July 20th, 2007 at 12:34 pm
Chris L.,
This isn’t a comment, but a question. Are you going to enforce the edict of your “flesh and blood” post?
Virtually every comment by Tim Reed contains his name-calling of “watch poodles.”
July 20th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Chris L,
I told you so!
be blessed,
iggy
July 20th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Better watch out Ken, if you’re not watch poodling some emergent may sneak into your church and steal all your potential watch poodles and then while they’re off watching movies you’ll have to watch poodle twice as hard as you used to watch poodle back when you watch poodled before.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
Ken,
Perhaps you noticed that his “flesh and blood” post was, at least in my estimation, written in part to be an example to you. It seems a bit disingenuous for you to suggest that he’s not “enforcing” his own policy when you haven’t, it seems, even considered integrating any of the points he so eloquently made.
I would suggest you focus on enforcing love on your own blogs before demanding that another blog owner do so. You’ll have much more credibility that way.
Oh, and watch poodle is a wonderful word-picture that I would hardly consider “name-calling”.
July 20th, 2007 at 1:09 pm
It sounds so pink and cuddly… and not so mean!
iggy
July 20th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
Two strawmen ( I am starting to love that word), which must be torched;
1. “I find it funny coming from the people who are calling for all communities of faith to have pews, hymns, three piece suits and an institutionalized methods of church.”
Who is doing this?
2. “I can understand why many of these writers would respond out of fear like this.”
Fear of whom or what??
Warren? McClaren? Your overwhelming intellectual prowess?
Grow up boys.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:12 pm
1.
“Hmm. Seems I’ve heard that line somewhere before…There’s that clone thing again.”
“Resistance is futile, your former leaders have either been assimilated or forced-out by this new army, but WHO ARE THESE CLONES?”
a few lines from both C?N and Slice about the clones. If you are going to argue that writers at Slice don’t want hymns and pews back… well, I wonder what you’re NOT reading over there.
2.
Also, if you took the three minutes to read my post you would have read the following:
“Fear that they are quickly loosing touch with this generation, and watching their communities die. Fear from not understanding an ever changing would in which they now find themselves. Fear that their way of doing things is slowly being replaced with other methods (and I say that with all sincerity, sympathy and sadness). I can understand why many of these writers would respond out of fear like this.”
sorry… no strawmen here.
July 20th, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Chris P is starting to sound like Ken.
Perhaps some reading will enlighten you.
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=483
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=430
http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/?p=403
And then I stopped going through the archives. BTW, on the VBS one don’t you find it interesting that she equivocates hymns, the way VBS was done when she was a child and the scriptures?
Chris, I urge you to take a second look at the people you’ve allied yourself with. If you really believe that mostly advocating for a return (or retaining) of pews, hymns etc above everything else then it might be time to evaluate who you’re supporting and writing against.
July 20th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
I think it is important that we dial back the rhetoric a little bit. “Watchpoodles” moves beyond ‘watchblogs’, ‘watchdawggies’, etc. in general tone, and because (in this thread) it seems to be a jumping off point - and not a conclusion.
I would have to agree with Ken that the rhetoric meter is bouncing back up today… This is about ideas (and groups of ideas) - not people…
While it is not easy, what I’ve been trying to do is treat each thread as a blank slate (which is not always easy or possible), and treat each poster the first time the post on the thread as a first-time poster - which can also keep rhetoric in check. This is not a war. This is not a ‘battle’ - this is protection of brothers in Christ and God-honoring diversity and unity within the body.
(That, and I keep chanting - in a non-meditative, non-centering, non-contemplative sort of way - is still ‘our enemy is not of flesh and blood…’)
July 20th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
While the idea that the [insert watchblog tag-o-the-day here] are all clones of one another - I would submit it’s actually, partially the other way around….. if you don’t line up with what the watchblog group says is the right way then you are out….not in…
From a musical artist well before his time….Steve Taylor.
“I Want To Be A Clone”
I’d gone through so much other stuff
that walking down the aisle was tough
but now I know it’s not enough
I want to be a clone
I asked the Lord into my heart
they said that was the way to start
but now you’ve got to play the part
I want to be a clone
chorus:
Be a clone and kiss conviction goodnight
cloneliness is next to Godliness, right?
I’m grateful that they show the way
’cause I could never know the way
to serve him on my own
I want to be a clone
They told me that I’d fall away
unless I followed what they say
who needs the Bible anyway?
I want to be a clone
Their language it was new to me
but Christianese got through to me
now I can speak it fluently
I want to be a clone
(chorus)
Send in the clones
Ah, I kind of wanted to tell my friends and people about it, you know
What?
You’re still a babe
you have to grow
give it twenty years or so
’cause if you want to be one of his
got to act like one of us
(chorus)
So now I see the whole design
my church is an assembly line
the parts are there
I’m feeling fine
I want to be a clone
I’ve learned enough to stay afloat
but not so much I rock the boat
I’m glad they shoved it down my throat
I want to be a clone
Everybody must get cloned
July 20th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
I gotta admit that when people start posting entire song lyrics…my eyes glaze over and I start thinking about washing the dishes.
Though I do love Steve Taylor’s music. And own it. And get your point.
Sorry. Entire lyrics, argh…brevity is the soul of wit and all that jazz…
July 21st, 2007 at 6:23 am
Julie - point taken. I’ll link next time.
July 21st, 2007 at 8:34 am
Julie,
I’m with you there, though I would also include the posting of entire Psalms in KJV w/o explanation in the comments section with your sentiments…