Hurting Your Own Team
Watchdoggie Blogger, Mike Corley, recently wrote a post entitles Why I Have Left the SBC. His reasons listed were everything from embracing Arminianism, accepting Purpose Driven churches into their fold and the growth of women in “ministry leadership.â€Â While I could not find a single disagreement that I actually agreed with, I have tremendous respect for Corley. You see, he actually had the backbone to leave an organization that he disagrees with.
There is this guy that I went to college with who constantly complained about the Christian institution of higher learning. He even went as far as starting an anonymous monthly newsletter that talked about everything wrong with the school. Campus Life, Residence Life, Campus Ministries, the food… you name it, he hated it. So one day I sat down with him and asked him one question. Why on earth would he spend over 20,000 dollars a year to an institution he didn’t agree with? His answer – He knew that the school’s reputation would give him some credibility in the future.
Sometimes I wonder why men like Ken Silva remain within the camp of the SBC when they say things like the SBC is filling up with dead churches and that the SBC stands for slowly becoming catholic. Is it because the community actually validates who they are? Maybe if they left, they would simply be self-proclaimed pastor/teachers. And maybe they are really just apathetic to the situation.
Don’t get me wrong, I see tons of flaws with the SBC (ironically they are almost the exact opposite of Mike Corley’s). However, I hope to be a part of the solution, or get off the ship. Some might think that writing hateful blogs or open letters ranting to the president is helpful. But let’s be real. That’s not affecting any change, but is adding to the problem. It’s not fair to the institution or yourself when you just stick around and scream in inconsiderate ways about the issues. Maybe it’s time time get off the ship or affect some positive change.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:52 pm
Nathan,
I’ll give you an “A” for effort anyway. You keep trying, one of these days…
Ah, but not this time though.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:14 pm
What do you think Ken meant when he said, “regardless of where he might see his association with me personally?”
July 8th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Ken,
want to address the issue, or just take you ball and go home?
July 8th, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Nathan,
You create no issue which is what I already addressed.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
Ken,
You mean you are saying you have no issue in not having an back bone?
LOL!
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 10:24 pm
O iggy, you’re just so clever… LOL!
July 8th, 2007 at 10:31 pm
I guess I would rather be known a clever than divisive…
Be blessed,
iggy
July 9th, 2007 at 7:26 am
The reason Ken doesn’t leave the SBC is because it is not as easy as one would assume. There are relationships, his pastoral position at church, and some other issues. That is why it is unfair to criticize others for associations and relationships that men have a difficult time just cutting ties with.
Corley had to take a bold stand to leave the SBC, those of you who have never been a member do not realize the many different ties. It is difficult to understand why Corley took this long to leave, but again you must walk in someone’s shoes to understand certain implications.
July 9th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Ken doesn’t leave the SBC because its the only thing legitimizing his position.
July 9th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
The question is, why hasn’t the SBC defrocked Silva?
July 9th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
“Ken doesn’t leave the SBC because its the only thing legitimizing his position.”
And now Tim can read minds. Hoo-wee! Very impressive. LOL!
David C,
“The question is, why hasn’t the SBC defrocked Silva?”
Wrong question friend. It should be why hasn’t the “$SBC$” defrocked Warren. I guess we all know that an$wer.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
Dudes!
These are questions that have been floating around in these threads for a while.
Why not just put the question to Mr. Silva.
If the SBC is so bad and their leadership won’t respond to your questions/rebukes, why won’t you leave and just be the pastor of an independent, non-affiliated Baptist church?
Or find another Baptist denom you can be happy with if you want/need denom. affiliation? (There ARE benefits sometimes to having a larger relationship network.)
Let’s agree not to bash his reasons…just let the man speak.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
“Wrong question friend. It should be why hasn’t the “$SBC$†defrocked Warren. I guess we all know that an$wer. ”
Rick Warren IS the face of the SBC and your assessment, Ken, is right on. I can understand someone remaining loosely associated with the SBC in hopes of being salt. But what I do not understand is someone who attacks evryone for even the smallest association with anybody who doesn’t pass the smell test, and yet remains in covenant (earthly) with the SBC.
I still contend there are consequences that people who have no experience with the SBC cannot understand, including members of churches who even though disagreeing do not want to leave the convention. I hope that Ken’s church at least earmarks any offerings to go directly to SBC missions.
July 9th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Ken can’t Rick…
The SBC is turning to the “Missional” model… so it is perverted according to those who hold Ken’s stance….
Remember the “Open Letter to Frank Page and Kent Shirley” that Ken endorsed… (but not the author) In it is referred to the leader of the missions turning too emergent!
http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/article.php/1287/Ken_Silva
It seems that if Ken gives anywhere… he is supporting an apostate denomination according to the judgement of Ken.
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 9th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
Ken said:
Wrong question friend. It should be why hasn’t the “$SBC$†defrocked Warren. I guess we all know that an$wer.
Who’s reading minds now, Ken?
July 9th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Coop,
LOL!
Isn’t divination a sin? Ken should stop doing that… he Judges Rick W and others and add motive all the time!
Yet is so blind to see that he does it… and even if he did… I have seen only two apologies.. which neither actually addressed the real issues.
As far as Ken’s fruit… bad tree… bad fruit.
But that is true of us all… it is that some of us have come to realize it… and have decided to trust Jesus and bear His fruit instead of trying to bear good fruit on our own. Ken’s words show his heart… and judges him… as scripture states.. judge and you will be judged… as James 2 states it, “Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment!” Ken has shown judgement without mercy… so receives the due payment.
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 9th, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Emergent’s fruit… bad tree… bad fruit.
July 9th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Ken,
I what you choose to respond to, shows me again my view is right on about you…
I have seen much good fruit as people are depending on Jesus… and not their own works.
Some may make mistakes but that is why mercy triumphs over judging… or do you not believe that?
It seems that if I was to discern the amount to stink from the bad fruit… It is from your camp that needs the hosing down…
SO before you point out splinters… remove the plank..
Sorry that would mean you would be doing what Jesus taught… and you just don’t do that do you?
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 9th, 2007 at 6:15 pm
iggy,
“I have seen much good fruit as people are depending on [a]Jesus… and not their own works.” Me too. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons, Roman Catholics, Islam, etc. etc. would all tell you essentially the same thing. Your statement is existential subjective opinion and proves nothing.
You have a nice day though, won’t you?
July 9th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
I see now, Acts 2:38, properly translated, should read “repent and be baptized, and get Ken’s approval for the forgiveness of your sins”.
July 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
Ken,
What more can be said… every time I state something you just prove me more right…
Even if I quote scripture I am wrong to you… but then again… I am not too worried that as you have proven over and over you do not truly believe… or you would act on that belief…
So, I will have a great day in Christ… and seek Christ as you go about your day.
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 10th, 2007 at 10:33 am
so….
why haven’t you left the SBC, Ken?
July 10th, 2007 at 11:54 am
“so…why haven’t you left the SBC, Ken?”
Well now Mr. Nathan Clair aka “the Confessor” and distinguished self-professed “gifted writer and an accomplished communicator”; I will leave just as soon as my Master Jesus, Whom you claim to know, tells me to.
There’s a little something for you to meditate on in your antichrist “reflective theology” today. O, and thank you for such heartfelt concern.
July 10th, 2007 at 11:58 am
So…
the answer is you don’t sense or feel the Lord is leading you to that step yet?
July 10th, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I certainly do not get why Nathan Dude would care about Ken Silva. Your blog seems to give wide latitude to everyone.
Ken - That is mighty subjective, especially for a “you know”. I suspect there are more substantive circumstances than that.
July 10th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
Oh Ken, how very Arminian of you. One might even say evangelical.
July 10th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Henry Rick,
I’m the “another nathan”…I just changed the name to be funny in light of the Ingrid yammering about using words like “dude”, etc.
anyway…I’m just curious…It is an issue that Ken gets constantly called on as evidence of “hypocrisy”, but I don’t think I’ve ever read a response/reason from him. (I might have missed it in the ever devolving meta.)
Now his response is out there. (If not unneccessarily laden with some name calling and sarcasm, but that’s a different issue for a different day.) His response doesn’t sound like hypocrisy to me.
I’m a regular reader of this site, it’s interesting…also Ken stopped by my blog some months ago with a couple comments for me.
btw, I do try to give a wide latitude to people. Not always successfully, but I try.
We each have a different story/life experience. I don’t think it’s unfair or unnatural though for anyone observing these arguments to be curious about his remaining in a denom that he constantly bashes. But now we know why.
That’s it. =)
July 10th, 2007 at 1:33 pm
OK Guys,
we can pack it all up and go home… Ken just state that he will leave the SBC when he feels like and then blamed God…
Or he just gave everyone he bashes a free get out of jail card because they can now say…”Jesus told me to do or not do such and such.”
Or even worse, Ken has now become the prophetic voice on the level of Joseph Smith and Rev. Moon…
But I think that statement speaks the loudest of the double standard Ken has set out there for others and himself.
But, I guess until God tells me to leave the emerging church… Ken has no say in anything. For God told me who I should talk to and what books I read .. (and He did)
God guided me in how I read the bible and that many of the views I held…(that were much like Ken’s) needed to change as I was too judgemental and not truly loving others.
God began to speak to me on the Kingdom and its implcations of being present now and in the future…
God began to show me of people like Ken those who influence him true theology that looks good on the outside but is rotten on the inside.
God… has done a lot in the last 5 years… almost more than He has in the 20+ I have walked as a Christian…
SO Ken has no reason nor excuse to attack or accuse anyone… other than he is basing himself as THE STANDARD of TRUTH and is not listening to the true Jesus.
Be Blessed,
iggy