Blame it on the rain… errr the emergents
So, I was sitting around drinking coffee at my local church/brewery (brurchery?)simultaneously preparing the movie clip for the coming week’s sermon (which I had plenty of time to do what with cancelling VBS) and listening to the Beatles’ “Nowhere Man†(in celebration of Standard Publishing’s new curriculum featuring the Beatles, the Rolling Stones and the Eagles) when I came across this, well, less than discerning post about the Episcopal priestess who claimed to be both Muslim and Christian. Now, you’d think what with the big fuss that was made over this before the news that she’s been suspended for a year by her church would bring great rejoicing. Sadly, it was just another occasion for McLaren bashing.
Brian McLaren and Tony Jones are probably deeply saddened by this development as it is a clear slap in the face of Post-Modern thinking.
What? Can someone who has managed to keep up with their mountain goat style of logic leaping fill me in here? How do we get from a main line church to two emergent leaders (or at least one leader, and one formerly influential leader in the case of McLaren)? And more importantly what does either have to do with this particular issue? The included link says nothing about McLaren or Jones, and after searching google (both the news and the normal search) I couldn’t find any connection. In fact, the only connections I could find were blogs that were simultaneously advertising books by McLaren and Jones and condemning this woman’s obviously contradictory stands.
This is getting to the point of paranoia. Did the “editor” eat some brownies of questionable origin? Is CRN.com actually a site based on ironic parody that I don’t get? Someone, please help!
July 7th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
Because it’s all one big well-planned, carefully orchestrated conspiracy. So, it’s just that you can “know” that McLaren, Bell, the RCC is somehow behind everything that happens outside of a very small circle of paranoiacs.
The mantle (spirit?) of Joe McCarthy has passed to a new generation.
July 7th, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Do you think that Ken was possibly using hyperbolic language to point out that Jones and McLaren probably share quite a bit of common philosophical ground with the woman “priestess” in question?
Furthermore, aren’t you outraged that one who attempts to synchrenize Islam and Christianity is only suspended for a year? Aren’t the Episcopals supposed to be Christians? True Christianity embraces the exclusivity of Jesus Christ.
If any scenario should result in a clear anathema, then it is this one.
July 7th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
It is like the man who abuses his wife, and then puts her down any chance he can in public to humiliate her more… all the while not seeing that all others see is that HE is the bully and abusive one.
Truthfully I think that Tony Jones and Brian McLaren do not share much in common with this Episcopal priestess other than they might respecter her as a person while Ken and others in his camp do not.
So much is heaped upon these guys that it makes it clear that fear is the motivating factor in the attacks… why trust that God, by the power of the Lamb overcome the things that rise against God’s Kingdom… I mean if you have to lie and slander and take every attempt to toss your enemies into the fiery heap… who needs God’s help?
It seems the more I understand Ken and his friends the less I see Jesus in them… the more I look away and follow the calling God has given me… the more I see Jesus in others who reflect God’s kindness in words and in deeds. they do not mouth love and then stab you in the back.
So, again even if Ken may have been 90% right… his insistence on hating others cuts through and makes it all seem so distasteful that even this Rev. Redding seems more logical than Ken.
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Clearly,
If he (or she) had slammed the Episcopal church it wouldn’t have shown up on this blog. If he had slammed mainline protestant churches in general I never would have thought about writing this. If he had simply pointed out how silly this woman is he’d have gotten agreement from, probably, everyone here.
Instead he chose to take a cheap shot at people who are coming from a completely different point of view. He even goes as far as to accuse them of being disappointed that there were any sanctions made at all, which flirts with the line of bearing false witness.
July 7th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Tim,
So, in your opinion, hyperbole as a rhetorical device is invalid?
I think Ken was simply exaggerating for a desired effect, only I don’t think this was what he had in mind.
July 7th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
The Episcopal Church is irrelevant and has been for decades.
The woman needs a life transforming encounter with the real Lord Jesus.
Some of the rhetoric obscures some genuine concerns. Most of you guys are astute enough to know what concerns someone like me, even though you do not see it as I do. But those of us who see a danger must remain vigilent against unwaranted criticism and links to men who have nothing to do with a certain situation.
How about this:
The London car bombs were planned by the Al Queda to kill as many people as possible, but they did not go off as planned. Something about which Rob Bell was deeply saddened.
By the way, C.H. Spurgeon issued a statement condemning it.
July 7th, 2007 at 5:11 pm
Clearly,
This wasn’t hyperbole. This was saying that McLaren and Jones agreed with this woman that Christianity and Islam are compatible, and that they were actively cheering her on. Neither has said anything remotely close to that.
The editor wasn’t exaggerating for a desired effect. He was lying for a desired effect.
July 7th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
In fairness, can anyone provide a quote or teaching from Jones or MacLaren that says that Islam worships the same God as Christians do?
July 7th, 2007 at 5:24 pm
The post in question was not mine so I cannot personally speak to the author’s intent, however knowing my editors as I do this was hyperbole.
That said, it isn’t far off anyway. In Relevant Magazine, and he personally confirmed this when I spoke with him on the phone, Tony Jones is speaking for Emergent Village when he says:
“We haven’t yet found that there’s anything that justifies us breaking fellowship with somebody else who loves and is trying to follow Jesus.”
July 7th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
You have documented that Jones is crass and foul mouthed, but what does he mean by the statement you quoted. It could go in several different directions.
July 7th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Tim,
“The editor wasn’t exaggerating for a desired effect. He was lying for a desired effect.”
It seems as though you have now jumped into the realm of judging motives. You really don’t have any grounds to call this a lie when it could just as easily as have been hyperbole…
July 7th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
Clearly,
What is unclear here? The author (who, unsurprisingly, remains nameless) flat out said that McLaren and Jones “probably are deeply saddened by this development” giving the impression that McLaren and Jones had addressed the issue, or a similar issue. So far the best the hit (piece) king himself can come up with is a statement a million Christians have said or thought on works/faith and church discipline issues.
Imagine a Washington Post editorial that said, “50 soldiers were killed today, House Leader Nancy Pelosi is probably happy about that”. Would that be kosher? OF course not, unless she had something like “I’m happy that 50 soldiers died today”.
In further news, the anonymous editor was lying for effect.
July 7th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
“Imagine a Washington Post editorial…”
Ah, remember now the CRN.(Mis)Info? position is that CRN is just a little ol’ hardly read blog; so it’s hardly a news source.
“what does [Tony Jones] mean by the statement you quoted?”
Here’s the whole context:
So I’d say it means exactly what he says: Anyone “who loves and is trying to follow Jesus” would be accepted by the Emergent Church. Really, these guys aren’t that mysterious.
July 7th, 2007 at 8:35 pm
Clearly,
I don’t understand the point of being outraged at every so-called church that is out of whack. Seriously. It seems totally fruitless to me. The Episcopal Church has been very liberal for a long, long time. It seems that if you wanted to, you could probably find heretical churches 24/7 (as some have shown they are quite capable of doing). I’ve decided it’s more fruitful for me to put my efforts into things I can actually control or that I’m directly involved in.
July 7th, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Ken,
Once again you’ve managed to leap frog over a crucial point. Do you believe that its possible to believe in the tenants of Islam and “trying to follow Jesus”? I don’t, and I doubt anyone other than this priestess does. I’m unwilling to just assume that any given person does think that unless they’ve said so.
July 7th, 2007 at 9:19 pm
“Do you believe that its possible to believe in the tenants of Islam and ‘trying to follow Jesus’? I don’t, and I doubt anyone other than this priestess does.”
You need to read the original story about Redding. Her congregation and her immediate supervisor (at least) believe she can. I’m not really a good one to ask though as I don’t believe it’s possible for a practicing homosexual female pastor to be “trying to follow Jesus†either and Emergent has those.
July 7th, 2007 at 9:30 pm
Now you’re just being obtuse. It doesn’t matter what Redding has to say about the matter. She can make that claim all she wants, obviously her church as liberal as it is doesn’t buy it. The question is whether or not hte people who “editor” was lying about would believe if you could follow Jesus and Islam at the same time.
July 7th, 2007 at 9:31 pm
Ken,
“I’m not really a good one to ask though as I don’t believe it’s possible for a practicing homosexual female pastor to be “trying to follow Jesus†either and Emergent has those.”
I don’t know of any… can you actually give a name to this claim?
I know many of us “emergents” believe homosexuality is a sin… so I am a bit confused as to your accusation being so blanketed… I can name 6 of the top of my head… two of which you would say do advocate this… but I have heard them myself say they acknowledge it as a sin.
So? Back your claim… and name at least 3…
I bet I can prove you wrong.
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
Ken,
BTW I want references and direct quotes… if you can’t do it then I expect an apology.
But I doubt you are man enough… let alone merciful enough to acknowledge this is a lie.
Be Blessed again,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 10:26 pm
iggy,
“BTW I want references and direct quotes… if you can’t do it then I expect an apology.”
BTW yourself. Read my comments above before you go foolishly challanging me friend. That happens to be Tony Jones. There isn’t going to be any apology coming from me.
July 7th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
iggy, you remind me of the comedy where al sharpton is giving bush the business…he says,
“how many minorities on your cabinet?”
bush: “um, well…there’s condie…”
sharpton: “name a hundred”
Ken,
I had no clue that TJ was gay…where can I read about that?
July 7th, 2007 at 11:20 pm
“Relevant Magazine: You mentioned earlier that you have lesbian pastors and conservative absolutists. It seems that it would create a tension point when it comes to endorsing that person’s view or platform.
Tony Jones: If you believe that Christianity is–at its very heart–a tension-filled, dialectical endeavor, you have less problems with these tension-filled relationships with believers. Christianity is paradoxical. Life comes out of death. Jesus was fully human and fully divine. We haven’t yet found that there’s anything that justifies us breaking fellowship with somebody else who loves and is trying to follow Jesus”
Riiiiiiight….
It shows you have not comprehension of what Tony is talking about… he is saying that all these people are in the conversation. On one hand you have Mark Driscol and other who are conservative and on the other extreme there are lesbian pastors… (Who may not be “practicing” or might be).
And you say that quote states emphatically that Tony Jones says homosexuality is not a sin?
Try again… and use a real quote that states your claim.
Again, your pride will not let you apologize but I like to point that out a bit sometimes.
BTW… If you are tight, then you named ONE name… and one name does not mean all are that way… I know I can fine a Southern Baptist who thinks homosexuality is not a sin… then can I say that of you also? I think the answer is no…
Also, you limited knowledge shows up again… Emergent Village is a tiny piece of the emerging conversation… to use one person from the most liberal group shows again you are not being honest and are over generalizing.
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:21 pm
TJ.
Ken is slandering and ying about a brohter in CHrist… and you ask for more?
Shame.
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
phil,
people are falling prey to falsity in doctrine and subsequently practice as well. it’s about the people — it started in my life when several of my friends started embracing the writings of neo’s. much of what i say and do on my blog particularly is directed towards them (and i happen to know they are reading)…
July 7th, 2007 at 11:23 pm
OOPS that was meant for Clearly… not TJ…
July 7th, 2007 at 11:25 pm
Ken: some catholic priests are gay.
iggy: outrage! name 100
July 7th, 2007 at 11:35 pm
Ken,
You and your friend are bearing false witness. You’re doing it deliberately, and unapologetically.
July 7th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
clearly…
I can start with at least three.
Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and Hillary Clinton… all for gay rights and southern baptists…
BTW here is a quote from SBC member Bill Clinton on gay rights…
“I looked at the recent meeting of the Southern Baptist convention where the president went. One of their leaders was wearing a button and giving it to everyone else and it said “I’m a Values Voter” - implying that those of us who disagreed with them didn’t have any values. For them, values are anti-abortion, anti-gay rights, concentration of wealth and power. But as I said, Jesus didn’t have much to say about what they say the values of Christians are today.
And yet these people really do believe they are in possession of absolute truths. You won’t hear about it during this convention. They’ll put up their other face. But the truth is that when it all comes down to it, a lot of the religious absolutists believe that all other issues are irrelevant, that all who disagree with them are somehow almost non human, certainly not deserving of basic consideration. Therefore it’s nothing but right to concentrate wealth and power in the hands of those who share their values and to constantly assert that whatever position they decide to take is right regardless of the inconvenient evidence.”
If you want I am sure I can find more… 100 should be easy… 3 were not a challenge at all!
be blessed,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
Tim,
Ken was born that way… so he can’t help it.
LOL!
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:41 pm
“your friend?”
Is that me or Ken’s author on CRN?
July 7th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
clearly,
You seem to back up Ken and be all into slandering Tony with Ken’s lies… or am I reading you wrong in your asking if Tony was gay and if Ken had proof?
It seemed to me that you were doing the little “yeah, what he said.” with Ken against Tony.
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:44 pm
Tim, I will repeat, your accusations of lying are based on questioning of motive.
July 7th, 2007 at 11:46 pm
clearly,
how is your asking Ken for more slander questioning your motive? It seems that in your question… you like to gossip!
Gossip is in the same passage of sins that homosexuality and slander are… but we won’t want to look at that will we?
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:47 pm
Sorry… here is the link to the SBC Bill Clinton who back gay rights…
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/151/story_15194_1.html
it was from a sermon…
July 7th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
I seriously had no knowledge of TJ’s being gay. I would like to know one way or the other. The quote from the article doesn’t demonstrate that he is, in my opinion.
I’m not merely a sounding board for Pastor Ken; I read his recent paper twice and discussed it on my blog before I ever even saw what Ken had to say about him. Also, I responded to this thread before Ken did.
Maybe I misunderstand your question…
July 7th, 2007 at 11:48 pm
Clearly,
So far we don’t even have one.
July 7th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
precisely why i am not a southern baptist.
but seriously, let’s compare apples with apples here. we are talking about church leaders and you bring up clinton?
ken: there are gay emergent church leaders
iggy: bill clinton is sbc
July 7th, 2007 at 11:52 pm
Clearly,
Its not a question of motive. Its a fact that the writer, and now Ken has no proof that McLaren and Jones are sad that she was suspended. Speculating to motive would be to say that they’re doing it to drive more hits to their sites so that someday Ken can quit his job where he has to work with *gasp!* sinners.
July 7th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
He was a leader and a SBC member… In fact many might take his word over the SBC convention….
Ken has not named one gay emergent church leader… he has only shown that one is willing to dialog with lesbian pastors…
And that is apples and oranges…
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 7th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
your first point doesn’t hold water. so clinton is a leader, okay you’re right. however,
1. he’s not a religious leader at all.
2. nobody cares what he has to say about Christ or the Church. I’m guessing you lean emergent/emerging, iggy. what do you believe about orthopraxy again? clinton lives in open adultery.
3. do you really expect me to believe that many people in the SBC would listen to clinton over mohler and dever? cmon, get serious here.
your second point is yet to be finalized…
July 7th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
im out for the night
July 8th, 2007 at 12:03 am
clearly…
you missed the point… and now you just are focusing on Clinton…
But you are still refusing to look at Ken’s slandering of Tony Jones… and then you wanted more gossip… instead of looking at your own actions… you look to find a way to not answer to them…
I gave you 3 people in the SBC who are for gay rights… Ken has just stated that TJ believes that homosexuality is not a sin… but has yet to actually give proof.
You were out much earlier… LOL!
be blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 12:44 am
BTW… Brian Mclaren is reaching people in the postmodern mindset… he does not accept “postmodernism” as the quotes in the article imply…
Nor does Tony Jones… for that matter if I recall. They uses the tools… but are reaching out to those in the postmodern world… so the back-slap that this person attempted actually slaps them back as they show they have no knowledge of what they talk about… My guess is that they never bothered to read either of these men’s own words and took the research of Ken Silva as credible…
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 6:38 am
1) Let me speak for myself, rather than letting Ken speak for me.
2) I’m pretty sure that Ken and others at CRN put my name in posts that have nothing to do with me for reasons of search engine prominence. They do this a couple of times a week.
3) Mark Driscoll does believe in lesbian pastors. In fact, he refers to himself as a “male lesbian pastor.”
Tony
July 8th, 2007 at 7:01 am
The Southern Baptist Covention is full of compromisers, seeker sensitive churches, emergent going churches, purpose driven churches, and even some liberal pastors who deny the Word itself. Any one with such foam at the mouth watchman credentials like Ken should have publicly separated themselves long ago.
Why is it OK to remain joining hands with the SBC when you can pick a flea off everyone esle?
July 8th, 2007 at 8:01 am
“I’m pretty sure that Ken and others at CRN put my name in posts that have nothing to do with me for reasons of search engine prominence. They do this a couple of times a week.”
Well now, pretty close to judging motives there Tony. Who’s slander who? You go right ahead and speak for yourself Tony. It’s good to get your heart on record.
But you know I haven’t misrepresented that you confirmed that quote to me personally on the phone. The context is breaking fellowship with, not just “conversing” with, practicing sinners.
July 8th, 2007 at 8:09 am
And Rick,
It’d be a real good idea for you to mind your own business and stay out of things you obviously know nothing about. For your information the entire American Christian community is filled with “compromisers, seeker sensitive churches, emergent going churches, purpose driven churches, and even some liberal pastors who deny the Word itself.”
And if you’re so bent on telling us how humble we ought to be and how we should all be crying out for revival then why do you waste so much time on message boards airing your humble opinions? Here’s an idea; instead of attacking those of us who are out confronting the twisted Arminianism at the root of this semi-pelagian new evangelical religion posing as Christianity spewed by compromisers like Tony Jones, why don’t you go spend more time in prayer.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:04 am
Ken,
Your misinformation lead someone here to think that Tony Jones was gay… and you are accusing Tony of slander?
What kind of antipsychotic should you be taking?
Tony,
Maybe I need to mention your name more on my blog to get more hits! I did not realize that’s how it all worked!
I will just do posts mentioning you and Brian over and over…
BTW sorry your name is getting dragged in all this. But you did get Ken back on his anti semi pelagian twisted Ariminianism rant again which is always nice to here… it sounds to Charlie Manson-ish…
Be blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 9:19 am
Ken - That’s no way to speak to a pastor/teacher. Anyway, people who believe like you should not be cooperating with the absolute mess called the SBC. You call Rick Warren out for his associations and sometimes you are correct. But with your agressiveness to everyone else, how can you remain in the SBC?
There is an obvious double standard. And as far as your personal attacks on me without addressing the question as posed, I believe the “go spend some more time in prayer” is adolescent and carnal as well as sin.
You continue to deteriorate and I do ask God to change your heart before you end up in the ditch.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:23 am
The “go spend some more time in prayer” suggestion, if it wasn’t meant to attack, would be a good admonition for us all.
July 8th, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Now, that’s not fair Henry, expecting Ken to live up to his own standards is just a dirty trick.
July 8th, 2007 at 1:12 pm
Iggy - the Charles Manson-ish adverb was very creative complet with hand waving imagery, but Ken said “Twisted Arminianism” so I think a Twisted Sister reference would have also been conguent.
And some of the hyper-hyperbole rheteric, complete with the scent of sulfur, cannot be considered serious. There are some issues.
If that was Tony Jones (whoever he is), I am dissappointed that he did not use this forum to address a couple of issues directly and with clearity, instead of adding to the mystery. Can there ever be a simplisitc but revealing statement such as:
I am not a homosexual. I believe it is a sin just like name calling. I believe Christ died for them as He did me.
Everyone has to play the mircurial game of literary/doctrinal/truth jeopardy, the answers are more questions.
July 8th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
“That’s no way to speak to a pastor/teacher.” By your own words Rick.
And further, “people who believe like you should not be cooperating with the absolute mess called the SBC.” You God now Rick?
Also let this be clear: I am not saying Tony Jones is gay and certainly do not believe that he is by any stretch of the imagination.
July 8th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Ken - you are so self absorbed you cannot even hear the things you say. The blindness is incredible, and you who are constantly telling everyone what they should do, claim that those who point out your blatant hypocrisy are playing God.
You serve no purpose anymore except to provide ample evidence of a man who holds himself in high esteem and is the poster boy for “do as I say but not as I do” You do not edify, you do not teach, you show no love, and the only spiritual posts of devotion you copy and paste from others. You have become a very sad joke, and you and your pomposity have repelled the ones you claim you want to reach.
Who else places double digit self-links in their own articles? I realize you will recieve none of this, because except for a quick ackowledgment of your human frailty you never admit to even a small tweeking of your approach. And when all else fails, you use God by saying He told you. Even Ingrid doesn’t say that.
You’ve backed yourself into a corner, and God will have to break you in order to use you. Don’t rely on your little echo choir, they do not speak for God. Many of the brothers who comment here love Christ and have some modernistic views, but they deserve better than you. I await your retort, and if you would like to write about me on AN check with Jim B., he is the pioneer.
If standing for what I believe is God’s Truth means I have to be crass, condescending, puffed up, and always negative, then I am not standing for God’s Truth, I’m standing for myself. Is it not telling, Ken, that there was no comment on my post about “Love’s Embodiement” because you are not interested in any of that stuff, only something about which you can do battle will draw you into the comment section.
Very sad…
If I be lifted up…
July 8th, 2007 at 2:29 pm
Tony Jones,
I found your comment interesting on several levels.
1. you appear to know the motives of the person who mentioned you on CRN. I notice that you cast that person aside as having a motive of getting better search engine exposure. What if that person said what they said because they believe, after reading your works that they think that you’d see no problem whatsoever with a person espousing to be a Christian and a Muslim at the same time.
What was missing in your comment was any explanation of you position on the Rev. Ann Redding Holmes. (That was conveniently omitted). In fact, I’d call your comment an an ‘Adventure in Missing the Point’.
Wouldn’t you?
July 8th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
Rick,
Nope. No retort, you flatter yourself. Your heart speaks for itself as you make your choice. It’s nothing personal, just doing my job.
July 8th, 2007 at 2:35 pm
Tony Jones,
2. Mark Driscoll’s claim to being a lesbian has it’s genesis in the works of a feminine professor at the University of Florida. She claimed that everybody is a homosexual. If everybody is a homosexual then as a man, I’d choose, just like Driscoll to be a lesbian because lesbians are attracted to women.
Again this has nothing to do with the Rev. Ann Holmes Redding. This is another ‘adventure in missing the point’.
So how long are you going to keep us in suspense? What is your take on the Rev. Ann Holmes Redding? Is she a Christian or not, should she have been suspended, or as the head of her faith community is it perfectly legitimate for her to exercise her hermeneutical prowess in such a way as to hold both Christianity and Islam as ‘compatible religions’?
July 8th, 2007 at 2:40 pm
Chris R., at least you have added substance to the discussion, one that has some clear inquiries that could reveal positions. It is the cleaver dodging that always has me wondering if the accusations, stripped of harshness, are really true.
Can anyone one just say Ms. Redding, a class A heretic. Pray for her.
July 8th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Just a quick note. The probablity is that this wasn’t actually Tony Jones. Please note that on Tony’s blog at 4:30 this morning he notes his travel plans. The comment appeared at 6:30 this morning. I’ll leave it up to you as to how probable it is that he’s even aware of this conversation and took the time on a day when he’s traveling to post a rather non-descript comment on it.
July 8th, 2007 at 6:34 pm
TIMEOUT
Whoever the illusive Mr. Jones is that commented. It is the only time his ISP showed up today.
Ok, go back to whatever you call this…
July 8th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
If I knew what an IPS was or how you can find it I might be admitted into the post-modern club. I do know that is part of the beast of Revelation.
July 8th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
Joe, you have had great success tracking isp’s before…
July 8th, 2007 at 7:12 pm
except this time, have at it — impersonation is quite a different thing than simply being annonymous
July 8th, 2007 at 9:08 pm
Hey Dave Marriot,
While I may not have your ability to see all that clearly, just being a dumb emergent and all. I can cut and paste an ISP into the search engine.
So, I’m sorry your having a bad weekend, and if you want to be grumpy be grumpy, but that comment came from an ISP address that has only shown up on here once.
Try a bowl of ice cream, or something.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:09 pm
By the way Sherlock (that’s you Clearly in case you didn’t get it) I didn’t say I was tracking this guy, I just said that he had only came here once today.
Peace
July 8th, 2007 at 9:37 pm
I think the real ignorance in this post is the fact that they lump anything actually heretical to the emerging church. It’s the only way they can have a solid argument… any thing evil is obviously a product of the emergent church. If John MacArthur went off the deep end, he too would be a part of the emerging church.
July 8th, 2007 at 9:56 pm
Nathan,
You’re exactly right on that. There’s been times when I’ve laughed when I saw them lump together Warrenesque PDL methodology with emerging/ent individuals. We’ve long passed the time where we can ascribe such lunacy to ignorance. Ken, Ingrid etc jumped over that line into maliciousness a long time.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:09 pm
Rick,
I reaaly do not think Tony Jones owes anyone here anything of any explaniation… I do think that Ken needs to realize that from this thread his slander caused another brother to beleive that TOny was gay which is gossip… Kne never seems to address that he is a gossiper… and a slanderer… he only justifies and rationalizes his own sin being from God.
Sin from God to Ken to us… and he talks of twisted Arminisanism?
BTW… it seems that Dee Snider had somethings in common with those Ken attacks… (This is for you Rick!)
Here is a qupte from Dee SNider as he went before the Congressional Hearing… I do not agree with all he states… but the techneec used agaisnt him is what Ken does to others…
Here is Dee Snider… against Tipper Gore…
“Before I get into that, I would like to tell the committee a little bit about myself. I am 30 years old, I am married, I have a 3-year-old son. I was born and raised a Christian and I still adhere to those principles. Believe it or not, I do not smoke, I do not drink, and I do not use drugs…
This attack was contained in an article written by Tipper Gore, which was given the forum of a full page in my hometown newspaper on Long Island. In this article Ms. Gore claimed that one of my songs, “under the Blade,” had lyrics encouraging sadomasochism, and rape.
The lyrics she quoted have absolutely nothing too with these topics. On the contrary, the words in question are about surgery and the fear that it instills in people. Furthermore, the reader of this article is led to believe that the three lines she quotes go together in the song when, as you can see from reading the lyrics, the first two lines she cites are an edited phrase from the second verse and the third line is a misquote of a line from the chorus.
That the writer could misquote me is curious, since we make it a point to print all our lyrics on the inner sleeve of every album. As the creator of “Under the Blade,” I can say categorically that the only sadomasochism, bondage, and rape in this song is in the mind of Ms. Gore…”
It seems that we do more damage if we use lies to promote the truth than actually trust in Truth…
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
BTW… Tipper looked rather foolish… even if she won that battle. In the end those Parental Warnings… have helped sell more albums for groups than before they were mandatory…
Regulated morality is not effective as reaching out to others with Jesus and changing their hearts…
Ken demands all to believe as he does… and he wants to regulate others to do so.. if not he has no issue with himself or his friends twisting others lyrics to make them look worse than they are… and truly… the only one who is hiding behind a mask is Ken… the mask of self righteousness…
And many as well as myself are saying… “We’re not gonna take it!”
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
“We’re not gonna take it!†LOL!
Never liked that song…
July 8th, 2007 at 10:30 pm
Ken,
really those were just for laughs… but seriously… it does seem even if you win a battle you will lose the war in your efforts as more will be turned off by you that see what you have to say as bearing anything truly relevant in their lives…
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 8th, 2007 at 10:47 pm
“you will lose the war…”
Not to worry there iggy, didn’t you know? The war isn’t mine.
July 8th, 2007 at 10:50 pm
That’s right! it is John MacArthur’s and you are just one of the minions…
LOL!
BTW I taught today at our church and it went very well… even the conservative ones seem to still love me. LOL!
Be Blessed,
iggy
July 9th, 2007 at 1:07 am
“I can cut and paste an ISP into the search engine. So, I’m sorry your having a bad weekend, and if you want to be grumpy be grumpy…”
Maybe it will work this time and not put a cali guy in virginia. I’m having a good weekend too, thanks for asking — very fruitful in ministry — praise God!!!
July 9th, 2007 at 1:10 am
iggy, “Ken needs to realize that from this thread his slander caused another brother to beleive that TOny was gay which is gossip…”
Like I was fully assured…
July 9th, 2007 at 7:20 am
Tony doesn’t owe anyone but God, but are you saying he doesn’t clearly address questions?
July 9th, 2007 at 8:05 am
Dave,
Read this slowly. I didn’t say where he was from, I only said that he was on the blog one time yesterday. That’s it. Just once.
July 9th, 2007 at 8:37 am
Yeah I got that Joe. My first post was an attempt at humor…seems I wasn’t the one having the bad weekend.
July 9th, 2007 at 11:26 am
oh and one more thing, Joe.
I never called emergents dumb. I said that Rob said some stupid stuff about the virign birth, but I never called anyone dumb.
By Tim’s definition, that’s bearing false witness:)
July 9th, 2007 at 11:40 am
Hardly Clearly, Joe made a mistake. That’s very different than deliberately saying something that is false.
July 9th, 2007 at 4:51 pm
I sent an email to Mr. Jones and he says that he did indeed post that comment. For what that’s worth…