Digging Deep
This is just going to be an ongoing article here at CRN.info. The elusive “editor†at C?N has once again not given his opinion on Rick Warren’s ministry. And, once again they have dug deep for this one.
Let me first say that not all of the ideas in the article entitled 40 Ways to Increase Baptism were life changing. Some are a bit superficial, but are good ideas for making baptisms special and prolific nonetheless. The “editor†over at C?N made this unbiased statement about the article:
note that none include preaching the Word of God or repentance…
However here were some ideas presented from Rick Warren:
1. Mention the value, purpose and benefits of baptism regularly in sermons.
7. Have a required membership class that explains the meaning or baptism in detail.
15. Print a “Why Be Baptized?†brochure. Use scriptures and lots of testimonies.
26. Have a corporate prayer of celebration at the end of each service to thank God for those baptized.
27. Sing a great hymn about the power of God to change someone’s life.
It doesn’t exactly sound like Warren is trying to take the scripture out of Baptism. Looks like the “editor†had a bad case of digging deep for this one.
June 29th, 2007 at 7:20 am
The CRN article was talking about Rick Warren’s mis-focus of “increasing” the number of baptisms for baptism’s sake instead of baptisms increasing because of more people being convicted by the Holy Spirit and repenting, which happens when you preach the Word of God. People would be “getting baptized” for all the wrong reasons otherwise.
June 29th, 2007 at 8:49 am
Timothy,
that was not even implied in the article by Warren. I know several people in my church who just didn’t know they needed to be baptized. Once we put an emphasis on its importance in the life of the believer, we had over 40 people baptized in three weeks. It wasn’t baptism for baptism’s sake. It was out of a raised awareness of its importance.
June 29th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Timothy, it seems pretty clear to me that Rick Warren’s article assumes that the Word of God has already been preached, the Holy Spirit has already convicted and the people have already repented.
Nathan, you could have also referenced:
#10 Allow entire families (after confirming that all are believers) to enter the pool together. (which confirms my above assumption)
#12 Interview all candidates at the water’s edge to hear their story of how Jesus changed them.
#33 Ask each small group in your church to take a week where each person shares their baptism experience and what it did for their Christian life.
and #36 Constantly emphasize baptism as the next step after committing your life to Christ. (again, this confirms my above assumption)
The one that really cracks me us is #25 “Always have the baptism pool warm and chlorinated before services.” I spent 13 years in a fundamental, independant baptist church that unoffically taught that enduring the super cold baptismal was part of the necessary sacrifice for becoming a Christian. I swear they put ice cubes in it!
June 29th, 2007 at 9:19 am
hahaha… we used to have an iced cold baptismal. The new one we have has a heater and jets. Sometimes when I am bored at the office, I get my swimming suit on and go relax in it… hahaha.
(that was a joke, for all of the uptight people here. Don’t write a blog about how Mosaic has a party tub for a baptismal).
June 29th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Shoot…I was baptized in a cattle trough in Southern Illinois in the dead of winter.
YEEHAW it was cold…if I wasn’t a tongue talking charismatic before going in…I sure was coming out.
What an experience though…I will never forget the feeling coming out of the water. Truly indescribable. (and not because of the cold…I didn’t even feel it)
June 29th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Nathan, so your church’s pastor preached about baptism and people became convicted about being baptized. Great! So I don’t understand why you think that I would have considered that as being baptized for baptism sake?
But I was actually talking about Warren’s article, or rather his list, as it really is. As important as baptism is, some of Warren’s suggestions fosters a rather inappropriate treatment of baptisms, like “Make it a party atmosphere,” “Make a music video of the baptisms,” and “Develop a Baptism-Party-In-A-Box kit”. Not all suggestions are all bad but collectively it transforms baptism from a private solemn yet joyful event into a talk-show discussion point where everybody “shares” their baptism experience and all aspects of it is over-discussed, brochured, small-group-topic’d, let’s have a baptism parade!…..
Baptism is a very important part of a Christian life but it shouldn’t be turned into a Oh-So-Hallowed-Religious-Event with it’s own shrine nor should it be casually “marketed” like most of Rick Warren’s sugguestions.
June 29th, 2007 at 10:09 am
Timothy,
On one hand I agree with you that if you follow every one of the party suggestions, it does seem that the celebration might be a little over the top.
On the other hand, in my experience, we don’t celebrate the act of baptism enough. When someone publically declares their commitment to follow Jesus it is a cause for celebration. If you have someone video tape it then the family is able to focus on what is happening and not on getting everything in frame. Going out to dinner or having a group of people come back to your house after is a good thing and if the “party box” contains balloons that say “baptism” on them instead of getting blank ones, it doesn’t bother me.
One thing I did notice in Warren’s article is the difference between what he puts in the beginning: “a list of some simple things” andwhat he puts at the bottom “Do these 40 things and…”. If these are a list of “some” ideas, it is fine with me, but if he really thinks we need to “do these” with an implied “all” then it seems over the top to me.
None of it suggests a “mis-focus of “increasing†the number of baptisms for baptism’s sake instead of baptisms increasing because of more people being convicted by the Holy Spirit”.
June 29th, 2007 at 10:17 am
Amy, I guess this is where the “agree to disagree” comes in. What suggestions “doesn’t bother you” are those I think is inappropriate for baptism. I personally think “celebrating” a baptism in the way Warren suggests has an opposite effect of trivializing baptism.
June 29th, 2007 at 10:32 am
Timothy,
Amy?
I agree that we would have to agree to disagree on this. It should be noted that while I don’t have an issue with how someone celebrates their baptism, mine was a VERY quiet event with only 2 witnesses.
However, trivializing baptism was NOT the argument the editor over at CRN made. The complaint was that of the items presented on the list: “none include preaching the Word of God or repentance”. My point was that there are many points in the list that recognize that “preaching the Word” and “repentance” happened prior to the baptism.
June 29th, 2007 at 10:46 am
I sat under a Purpose Driven push for baptism. It had all the slick promotion of Madison Ave, and it provided a forum of many others so as to limit any embarrassment. The words Warren writes are good, the implimentation is very shallow. After this giant push in a church that averages about 2500 per week, approximately 300 people were baptized. The attendance did not increase, ditto any increased surrender to Christ.
Even if all these people were saved what does that tell you about a church where people can sit by the years and never desire to be baptized. And of course all the people that have very questionable salvation experiences ran to be herded in with the rest and get it out of the way and join the church. The obvious motivation by the pastor was to increase the membership roles and lock people in.
A total non-spiritual experience.
June 29th, 2007 at 11:08 am
A sad yet valid commentary on the state of some churches. On the opposite end, I was at a church that did not push baptism, even though it was a requirement for membership. When I went to become a member and they found out I had not been baptized, they simply said it was a small matter that they could take care of (the act of being baptized). That spoke volumes to me about their attitude.
These issues have less to do with the ideas generated by Warren and a problem within individual churches. But implementation of Warren’s ideas was not the focus of the editor’s post, it was a lack of preaching and repentance.
A small side note Rick, as someone who was a believer, in a baptist church for 16 years, without being baptized, there are many reasons why someone can sit in a pew for years and not desire to be baptized, and it doesn’t always have something to do with a questionable salvation experience. (I’m a bit touchy on this subject)
June 29th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Maybe if churches had never separated the idea that in Scripture baptism immediately follows repentance, belief in Christ, Warren’s article would have never been written. Being baptized would just be the norm, not something “extra” one may or may not choose to do.
For me certain kinds of celebration would cheapen the baptism itself. If I were to be baptized now, I would rather be by myself afterwards and quietly reflect or at least only with close friends and family. Going on a hike in a beautiful place would seem appropriate. But I also see nothing wrong with singing, eating together with family, friends, or the church body, just so the celebration didn’t turn into an EVENT for events sake, just so the baptism itself wasn’t overshadowed by the celebration of it.
Whatever the case, I would hate to see baptism being commercialized with “baptism packages.”