Thou Shall Not Say, “Dude.” Nor shalt Thou call Thy wife, “Hot.” Henceforth Consult Ingrid First! ****UPDATED****
Honestly, how does the woman find the time to get a radio show done. Evidently, Dave A.K.A. movie pastor wrote an offensive post. What was his offense? Well he said his wife of 25 years was “hot.” He also used the word dude, and calls his post “mind dump.” She actually has three different posts up dedicated to this guy. You can find them all at her site with a little research. Here’s some of my favorite quotes from the mad commenters she sent his way.
I can’t see Abraham referring to Sarah about how HOT she was over and over…she was beautiful but he did not need to say it over and over to boost his ego
WOW! I never thought a paster would resort to saying “dude”, or saying his wife is “hot”.
Dude, mentioning Jesus was like 15th or 16th on your list of the coolest things that pop into your head? That’s cool. Your like some kind of pastor dude, so you probably had to fit Him in somewhere, right?
And then my favorite quote is obviously not a follower of Ingrid
Dang Dude, I don’t check your blog for a couple of days while you’re out of the country and I’ve missed all the fun. Where in the world did you post that attracted all of these people? Kind of reminds me of the old Far Side cartoon where the guy steps in a “nest” of wiener dogs. I don’t know why I bother to associate with such a liberal, childish, emergent, Satan pleasing, and without moral compass pastor.As far as your wife goes I think it would be best if you just followed Abraham’s example in scripture and introduce her as your sister. LOL
For an even better time read the comments on Slice. I know Chris L. doesn’t like the term but how can “fightin’ fundie” not apply? Somehow I failed to put a link up to Dave. Here it is.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Boy, there’s so much self righteousness at SOL, I can barely even wade through it all. It reminds me of H.L. Mencken’s definition of fundamentalism; a terrible, pervasive fear that someone, somewhere, is having fun.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Two things,
1. I have seen Ingrid’s photo… enough said…
2. My wife is in her forties, has had two children… and is hot, hot, hot!
Oh, I guess there is a 3rd thing…
I am a very blessed man!
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 12:33 pm
Iggy, Here’s what Ingrid has to say about you calling your wife hot. This is a direct copy and paste.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Joe,
That quote from Ingrid definitely reveals some sort of pathology.
Ingrid needs to see that the glass is half full. At least the pastor wasn’t saying the Elvis impersonator’s wife was hot.
Just for the record, my wife is hot, too.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:44 pm
It is inappropriate to draw attention to your wife’s sexuality to other men and their minds (or women in today’s world). It is prideful and is comparative in nature, and it also leads to dismay to other men who do not feel the same way and to women whose husband would never say that about her.
If you remove Ingrid from the conversation, to refer to women in a sexual term, especially publicly and especially a pastor, is indicreet in the Christian atmosphere. Who came up with the word, its meaning, and feeling comfortable with disseminating it publicly?
Let’s see…maybe the world? (if there still is anything like that today)
June 25th, 2007 at 12:49 pm
Rick,
The world also came up with College football and the cheerleaders that come with it. It’s just plain old gratification of the flesh to watch sports too. I mean, all he’s saying is he loves his wife and she’s good looking. Ingrid’s post and the subsequent lemmings reaction is silly and wrong.
Iggy and Phil have both said their wives are hot and it just hasn’t caused me to lust after them.
June 25th, 2007 at 12:59 pm
Rick,
I’m sorry, I am going to have to disagree with you on this one. For one, I don’t think the term “hot” carries nearly as much sexual connotation as it used to. Maybe I’m just used to being around college students, but it seems like that word is thrown around as a rather innocuous adjective today.
As far where you say, “it also leads to dismay to other men who do not feel the same way and to women whose husband would never say that about her”, that seems like kind of going overboard. I mean based on that logic we shouldn’t celebrate weddings because it will make the ugly women feel bad. The fact is we are physical creatures, and it is fine for a husband to acknowledge his wife’s beauty, otherwise someone has some ’splainin to do about the whole Song of Solomon thing.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
Proverbs 5:19
June 25th, 2007 at 1:02 pm
ICSCTRHG,
LOL!!!! Has anyone seen MY PHOTO!!!!
LOL!!!
blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
I don’t get this whole “privacy” thing. Why does someone who blogs about how “hot” his wife is need to keep it private? Song of Solomon is not a private book. Whoever wrote it was pretty open about his relationship with his readers.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Joe,
Well, I’m glad you’re not lusting after Iggy or I. (Sorry, couldn’t resist!)
June 25th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Joe, the college football refernces are the proverbial straw men. Refering to your wife with a term that has a sexual undertone is simply inappropriate, and refering to one’s husband in the basest way is also wrong. You bring up Ingrid, that obscures the point.
One can say I love my wife” as you soften his statement, and one can say I think she’s beautiful” also. When you say she’s “hot”, I can remeber as a 14 year old loving those types of additional imagery to be used at a later and more private time. I would think that we should teach our Christian teenagers not to refer to women in those terms either.
Just because some do not consider themselves as “fundamentalsits” should not open all barriers to suggestive and carnal language. And if we could from time to time discuss issues without Ingrid would probably shed a more objective light on it.
Negative references to personal appearances, Iggy, are also inappropriate and somewhat adolescent.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
Phil,
You’re killing me.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:07 pm
Rick,
Might I suggest that 14 was more than a few years ago for you? Words tend to change in meaning over the years. If he said, “My wife is sexy.” that’s ok. She’s his wife. He should think she’s sexy.
There was no straw man, just a call to consistency.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:13 pm
OH BTW I am very sexually attracted to MY WIFE!!! and am proud of it… so there!!!! LOL!
I think the real issue is one that if you have a shame based faith… and a mind that is not purified with Christ… then you might be falling into this as an issue…
My wife loves that I call her hot… even in front of others…. even at church. In fact she beams!!!!
Now, if I was to call another man’s wife hot… that would take great discretion… It would have to be presented in a careful way if it was to happen at all… but I would agree with I can See Clearly now, the rain is gone… (which is a very annoying long name…. LOL!) I think that much of the “sexual” baggage is not there as it was years ago… I mean IF I did say it about another woman or some one’s wife it would not mean I would have sex with her… it would simply mean she is beautiful or pretty or whatever… it would be like saying in an introduction, ” here is Krimp Silverburg and his beautiful wife Sabrina.” I means simply attractive. If I called her beautiful it would not mean I wanted to get her in bed…
Now, if one has a dirty mind… then they simply need Jesus…
Blessings,
iggy
Titus 1:15
June 25th, 2007 at 1:15 pm
Phil,
“Well, I’m glad you’re not lusting after Iggy or I. (Sorry, couldn’t resist!) ”
LOL!
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 1:17 pm
Rick,
Your remarks show me that you respect your wife and women in general. Thank you.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:19 pm
Rick,
“Negative references to personal appearances, Iggy, are also inappropriate and somewhat adolescent.”
Who said it was negative? LOL!
It was meant in fun… I would hope her husband finds her very HOT! She might be more attractive if the garbage she spews did not get all over her… that is all I was going for… I left it open to see what would happen… She is not attractive to me at all… and it has nothing to do with her appearance.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
amy,
A very gracious comment considering other than Rick this comment thread reads like discussions I would overhear from my middle school football players when I was relevant and was head coach at the secular junior high school in town. They however, weren’t claiming to be “Christ followers.” This is truly sad.
And this was totally beneath any level of Christian decency and completely uncalled for: “1. I have seen Ingrid’s photo… enough said…’ Iggy should be publicly rebuked by the “moderators” here.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:27 pm
Actually, I was just thinking now, and I think that I hear my wife use the word “hot” more than anyone I know. It seems like a synonym for “cute” more than anything. I’ve heard her go up and say to other women and say things like, “those pants are so hot!”, etc. Really, she would probably wonder why anyone wastes their time debating it.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
I think it is great! Men should feel the freedom to say their wives are hot!
Divorce rates are the highest in Fundy circles! Why? I think it is because of crap like this.
I tell people all the time I think my husband is hot, he is sexy, I can think of other adjectives but that is where I will stop so I am not crossing any lines!:-) LOL Why would I be ashamed of that? The two became one flesh. He is attractive and beautiful to me from the inside out. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder Rick. People should know that I am madly in love and attracted to my husband. We should want people to see marriage as a beautiful thing. I think this why so many marriages fail, we fail to demonstate to people by our own lives what marriage is like. Instead, we stop touching, kissing, stop saying words of affection iin public n fear we might offend someone, or cause someone else to lust. It is truly sad.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
Ken wrote: “And this was totally beneath any level of Christian decency and completely uncalled for: “1. I have seen Ingrid’s photo… enough said…’ Iggy should be publicly rebuked by the “moderators†here.”
I agree with Ken. That was not appropriate.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
I agree with Ken as well. That was mean. Iggy, I love you man, but that crossed the line.
Why does Ingrid have short hair? Isn’t that ungodly?
June 25th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
Iggy and Phil,
You remarks show me that you respect your wife and you admire her beauty. Thank you.:-)
June 25th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Darren,
Did I say her appearance was ugly? Did I say she was NOT HOT? I said I have seen her photo… then stopped… I said no more.
I already addressed this in another comment… but rebuke taken… Though… I still do not think she is that hot… LOL! And again that has nothing to do with her appearance.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Iggy explained himself. That’s good enough for me.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
People who are walking in obedience to God are always relevant in God’s eyes.
Why must we, like the world, be constantly redefining to justify words/actions that are questionable? This way of thinking reminds me of Miss Israel’s statement regarding her indecent photo, that it wasn’t pornography; if it was, she wouldn’t have done it.
Also reminds me a bit of a comment I just read trying to justify the pinky gesture ads to encourage safe driving (Fox news, Australia).
Iggy,
You seem to be trying to change what you originally said, which was, “I have seen Ingrid’s photo… enough said…”
Quite different than, “. . . She is not attractive to me at all… and it has nothing to do with her appearance.”
June 25th, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Kind of related to what Iggy said, but I can think of several people I know who are the best looking physically, but everyone wants to be around them because they are saturated with the love of Christ. Ingrid’s physical appearance is one thing, and I’m not goign to comment on it, but I’ve read enough of her writing to know that the spirit behind it is not beautiful.
The Bible says that Jesus wasn’t exceptional in the way He looked, but yet people were drawn to Him. People were drawn to the beauty of His love.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
Oops. That should say “who are not the best looking physically”
June 25th, 2007 at 1:52 pm
OK….
I should have admitted that i personally do not find her attractive at all… and I thank God I have a hot wife…
Now, come on guys… Should i have called he names like Ken calls others all the time? Should I have called her a self righteous Pharisaical snit? Should I have judged by her appearance that I thought that anyone who wears that much makeup and fine clothes can’t be saved as she could be just as “beautiful” without hiding behind the pancake batter? Should I have said that most beauty comes from the inside of a woman… and not just how well here hair is done up? Should I mention again that Ingrid teaches a shame based faith that holds women in bondage and is sick? Should I say I think that while she bows at the temple of Jezebel with all that eye shadow, that she spews a contradiction and hateful doctrine against other women who love the Lord and men who love their wives?
But, I do see where some might see that it was mean… and why would anyone be mean to a nice person like Ingrid?
OK, maybe then i would be a prophet or have THEN crossed the line of Christian decency…
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 1:55 pm
Iggy,
Now might be an appropriate time for you to warn us about rebuking a
“teacher” and one called of God. I mean, I do know someone else who
does that.
June 25th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Amy,
“I have seen her photo… enough said”… and I said nothing more until I was pushed to say more… LOL…
read is slowly… I left it that way for a purpose… it was open… was I saying she was ugly? it is not stated even if you took it that way… did I say she was “hot”… I did not say it did I? I left it open to bring out that true beauty is from the inside not from the outside… I did it purposely… you can say I was purpose driven! LOL!
blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 1:58 pm
“read is slowly” should be “read it slowly”…
sorry…
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 2:00 pm
I can See Clearly now, the rain is gone…
OH man don’t out me… I mean if they find out I was trying to teach something here they might get really nasty! LOL!
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 2:01 pm
The more I learn about Ingrid’s hordes the more disturbed I am. Look at
this quote from “The Protestant Stand” a commenter on her blog who
Amens all of her stuff. It is disturbing.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I can See Clearly now, the rain is gone…
It is based around the “us versus them” mentality… they have to have an enemy. That is the divisive spirit they are under… instead of seeking to bring people to a deeper relationship with Jesus they strive to bring division… instead of showing the Door to the Kingdom… they stand in the way and check credentials… they block the way by their religion. They mouth God… but deny true Godliness and any real trust in the Power of the Holy Spirit… they are man based and works based… teaching shame and bondage and not freedom in Christ.
It is sick and a perversion of the teachings of Scripture they profess to believe.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 2:15 pm
Thanks Erica!
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
well said.
June 25th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Have you seen the latest on CRN? It says”Slice of Laodicea Under Seige: An Internet Call to Arms”. Ha ha ha! Man the interwebs! Batton down firewalls!
June 25th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
Oh my SOUL! If you go to the “missive” at Apprising Ministries, you will
see where Ken calls for money and informs everyone that we are attacking
poor Ingrid. I was having a really bad day. That just helped me smile.
Thanks again, Ken.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Well, Iggy, if you were a female, and your name was “Iggita” (or whatever the feminine form of “iggy” is) and someone at Slice made a comment about your photo such as you have made about Ingrid . . .
” I have seen Iggita’s photo… enough said…”
certainly you would be full of wrath. I think. I don’t really know or understand your character that well.
However, I can say this with certainty:
If Iggita was Joe’s wife, and Joe was as protective of Iggita as he is of Erica, there would already be a fuming article posted in Iggita’s defense.
How about some honesty, some consistency, some humility, and an apology, instead of further mocking.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:28 pm
Amy,
Are you just using me as an illustration or are you saying I’m mocking
you? Should I not be protective of my wife?
June 25th, 2007 at 3:39 pm
I think the most striking thing when reading most of these comments is, well, the nastiness. This isn’t biblically based dealing with the issue, this is cowardly bullying language. Any secular and God hating individual could join you in tone and language without any real problem. Pick up James or 1 John, read it, and then compare it to what Ingrid says and what you say, both in tone and language. Which is closer? Which would Paul or Jesus denounce?
“13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic.”
James 3:13-16
June 25th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Well, I am a Slice reader among many other blogs, and stumbled on this one. As a wife and mother, I am honored when my husband honors me and calling me “hot” in public is not honoring. I prefer that to be private talk. And no I am not a prude or legalistic- I prefer honor and chivalry. Not talk that resembles cat calls from a stranger. God expects more, and I expect more out of our relationship. No worries- wont be backto this site- this one is really infantile
June 25th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
amy,
†I have seen Iggita’s photo… enough said…â€
Did you notice I already stated this???LOL!
i think then the real issue is where you get your affirmation from… from other people or Jesus… Jesus looks on the inside as I have been stating… and you are missing with the continuous returning to the outside appearance… I have been called much worse by these people than ugly… and without any apology from any of them…
So, show me one place I called Ingrid’s outward appearance ugly or whatever? If you can then I will apologize… I said to me personally I am not attracted to her at all and it has nothing to do with appearances…
Amy, you consistently dig in the shallow end… once in a while try to dig deeper into what I am saying… I may provoke but not without a reason. I never once stated that Ingrid is ugly… I never put her down as far as her appearance in the original statement… later I may have… but you went negative on her as far as her outward appearance and I had the plan all along to go deeper than that… and have… and you are still way back there…
read the comment thread and see that I have consistently stated it is the stuff that Ingrid spews out… the hate and judgmentalism that make her ugly to me… not her face.
If you can’t get over that… then whatever dudette… (Spoken as humbly as anything Ken Silva would state to those who disagree with him) ; )
And really Amy, I don’t swing that way… nor does Joe as far as i know… so please do not afflict poor Joe with me as his wife! LOL!
blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 3:49 pm
Joe, the mocking was a reference to Phil’s and your comments above mine. I don’t think you’re mocking me at all. I think your mocking slice, which is normal around here. All I’m saying is, how about an apology to Ingrid in the midst of the mocking?
Sure you should be protective of your wife. What I don’t understand is how you can be so protective of her, yet you act like Iggy’s comment to Ingrid is nothing . . . . If he made it to Erica you would be boiling. His “explanation” does nothing to take the sting out of it.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Iggy,
I give up.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
I will no apologize to Ingrid, because even if her points on the movie are
right, she is wrong in attacking Dave Anderson over him calling his wife
hot. Now Ken’s saying she’s “engaging in war with Dave.” That’s
borderline insane there.
June 25th, 2007 at 3:57 pm
Amy,
Beauty is in the eye’s of the beholder.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Amy,
Ingrid is a public personality who thrives on this sort of gossip driven life she is creating… she cares little for the people she attacks and shows no love, mercy or grace to anyone she writes against… in fact this latest thing is proof how far she and Ken will go to get people to send them money… yep they are “purpose driven” and they want YOU so show them the money!…
The declare a false war… then attack other servants of God to show how great THEY THEM SELVES are… which is sad.
BTW giving up is the greatest thing one can do as that is HOW one comes to Christ… they give up their little kingdumbs… for His… and these people keep build their kingdumbs in the name of Jesus… and that is the greatest insult to Jesus the Cross the Resurrection and to those who are New Creations I can think of… to build a kingdumb of bad fruit and call it good…. SICK!
If you are a part of that i would call out to you to repent and come to Jesus today… to lay down your kingdom and seek and dwell in His.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 4:06 pm
she’s “engaging in war with Dave.†That’s
borderline insane there.
Note to Rob Bell, when members of your church speak as Joe Martino here it’s time for a sermon on spiritual warfare. How about “Jesus Wants To Save ‘Christ-Followers’ From Ignorance”
June 25th, 2007 at 4:09 pm
Ken,
First of all Rob does not read this site. Secondly you make me laugh!
June 25th, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Now, there’s the Ken Silva we all know and love! That was a better one,
Ken. I’ll give you a B-. Keep working. You’ll get there buddy.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Ken,
We’re starting a new series this week called, “God is Green.” I’m sure
there will be much fodder for you there.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:14 pm
That was a good one babe!(Sorry maybe I should not call you babe, that might be offensive to our “friends.”
June 25th, 2007 at 4:15 pm
Thanks hon. I appreciate that.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:18 pm
Antonio, thank you for your thoughts.
Mary, You didn’t “stumble” across this blog, did you? Actually, you were
referred here by Ken or one of his minions, right?
June 25th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
*fighting my gag reflex* Ah, ain’t the Martino’s cute. For the record the “babe” and the “hon” were not offensive to me anyway. Just made me a little…well, “green.”
Sorry Joe, it was there. And I’m not one to denigrate the ecosystem. As a matter of fact, I’m kinda glad we have one…
June 25th, 2007 at 4:19 pm
I bet Mary comes back…
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 4:20 pm
Ken, you’re really getting better! That one was almost up to form!
BTW, Erica I love your arms in that shirt!
June 25th, 2007 at 4:24 pm
Ken,
That is great news! I will look forward to not hearing you slam Rob for a few weeks! Praise God for this one!
June 25th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”
Ok, Erica, I’m not sure what you meant by that, but I’ll take it and run with it:
A man who is a gentleman on the inside would never even hint to a lady that she is physically ugly, no matter how much he despises her.
Iggy,
The “giving up” I was talking about was giving up on trying to reason with you.
I really don’t need the cut-downs (ex - digging in the shallow end), the call to repentance from bearing a kingdom of bad fruit . . . Iggy, I am not perfect, but you are severely deceived if you think that some of your remarks to me and others are coming from being yielded to the Holy Spirit.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Joe,
Please, try not to praise me or say positive or encouraging things to me. God evidentially calls this “Cat calling!” I guess Jesus wants your words to me to be very selective. See Ingrid and Ken for a list of acceptable adjectives.
Thanks Joe!
June 25th, 2007 at 4:31 pm
Antonio,
I have tried to take the conversation into the Biblical issues we are addressing… in fact if you read what i have stated over and over real beauty is from the inside… it is God shining through that person… and to me that is what make my wife so hot… I am stating real beauty is not superficial and painted on…
In fact i brought up Titus 1:15… others have brought up that we men need to love our wives… we should openly be attracted to them…
So, it seem that as I tried to go deeper into this, people like Amy would go back to a comment I made to open the conversation to talk about outward appearances versus inward beauty… all they want to do is protect and defend Ingrid who attacks others with unbridled prejudice it should make people’s skin crawl… but alas.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 4:38 pm
Amy,
“Iggy,
The “giving up†I was talking about was giving up on trying to reason with you.
I really don’t need the cut-downs (ex - digging in the shallow end), the call to repentance from bearing a kingdom of bad fruit . . . Iggy, I am not perfect, but you are severely deceived if you think that some of your remarks to me and others are coming from being yielded to the Holy Spirit.”
1. Amy, you talk down to me about every time we converse…
2. You really do not get what this conversation was all about do you… in stead of reading and trying to understand you just went to defend Ingrid… who really could care less if you do or not… in fact if you had a blog and she read it and disagreed over a minor point she would not hesitate to rip your head off and spit down your neck… but again… alas.
Now, you comments really mean not much to me at this point as the Pharisees called Jesus demon possessed… and many hated Jesus when He told them the truth… so I am used to it…
Humility… I am working on it… maybe not as much here…
Yet, true humility would allow you to take down your defenses and actually try to understand me and what i am saying to you instead of getting hung up on trying to pick me apart. Instead of judging me as you often do, you could try so seek common ground.
If what I said about the Kingdom is not true to you… I would then wonder which of the Kingdoms I spoke of you are working on.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Amy,
Doesn’t a spouse have the right to refer to their spouse any way they would like to as long as it is to build them up and not tear them down. All Hot means is you think they are beautiful, attractive. A husband has the right to express to the world how he feels about his wife.
Was God wrong in putting Song of Solomon in the bible? He says a lot of things about his Beloved. God put it out there for us all to read.
My statement simply refers to the fact that Iggy has the right to his opinion about beauty as well as you. Joe and I often disagree on what is attractive and what is not. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Iggy left his comment about Ingrid open ended. Even if he finds Ingrid unattractive that is only through his eyes. You might find her beautiful. That is great to. This is why God made us all different.
June 25th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
Amy,
Solomon refers to his lovers hair as a flock of goats. I am sure if Dave had said his wife’s hair was like a flock of goats you would have something to say about how aweful that is also. The fact is it is his right to describe his wife the way he chooses as long as his intentions are to to glorify her and build her up.
June 25th, 2007 at 5:13 pm
When in the midst of a conversation about which some of us feel strongly about and have a Biblical perspective, Joe and Erica mock us. You engage in some of the same sarcastic hyperbole as some of the other blogs you dislike.
I feel strongly that certain intimate language should not be public. The Scriptures teach a woman to be modest and our speech should be unassailable. Now you may have a different perspective, but it seems this post was written to invite perspectives like mine so everyone can have a good laugh.
Are there any blogs where fair and balanced comments can come from different perspectives and be given respect, even if they are outside what the posters consider the mainstream? I have seen Chris L. banter with Ken sometimes, but I’ve never been mocked or demeaned by him over an opinion he probably considers outdated.
If you see things the way I do you’re a joke. No one can accuse me of not having a sense of humor, but everyone’s opinions matter when we are speaking of important issues concerning the ever changing atmosphere within the church.
Here’s one you can chew on, I believe Paul wrote Hebrews. Ha Ha
June 25th, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Thank you for replying Iggy. You bring up Titus 1:15. Continue to the second chapter and Titus 2:1-8, noting what it says about sound speech and discreetness. If you think Ingrid is speaking evil, consider where the fault lies for that.
Thanks again and God bless.
June 25th, 2007 at 5:19 pm
Rick, I never mocked you. I was serious when I said 14 was a while ago
and I didn’t mean it meanly, I was just trying to say that the meaning of
words change over the years. As for calling my wife Hon or talking about
her arms. I’m still not sure how that is mocking you, but I apologize.
June 25th, 2007 at 5:32 pm
Rick,
I never stated nor thought your opinion was a joke… I just disagreed.
I think that boundaries can differ from couple to couple… mine are different from yours…
Also, I think if Paul was nto the writer he was a profound influence on the Book of Hebrews. ( I sort of lean Paul wrote it.)
blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Iggy,
Ingrid could rip me up all she wanted to; I would still feel it was wrong for someone to make a remark that even hinted at a woman’s physical ugliness whether she was or not. What’s wrong is wrong. Maybe Ingrid could “care less.” That doesn’t really matter to me - it’s the principle behind what’s going on. I know for a fact that many women, even ones who are beautiful, are insecure about their looks - thanks to our culture which glorifies the outside. I think it’s wrong to make remarks about women’s appearances that could hurt them.
You can keep coming up with all kinds of things to cut me down and demonstrate that I’ve never understood what you were getting at; I will still be thinking that you need to apologize.
June 25th, 2007 at 5:49 pm
Erica says,
“All Hot means is you think they are beautiful, attractive.”
So then I assume that “hot” isn’t in any way related to “hottie” in most people’s minds?
Because for the first page of googling “hottie” the only pleasing and acceptable thing I could have looked at was a donut. One page was more than enough. It’s amazing what can make it past my filter . . .
Previously, Erica, I thought that you saw some connection between “hot” and “sexy” when you said this: “I tell people all the time I think my husband is hot, he is sexy, I can think of other adjectives but that is where I will stop so I am not crossing any lines!:-) LOL Why would I be ashamed of that? The two became one flesh. . . . “
June 25th, 2007 at 5:52 pm
I think that we as Christians are way to uptight about things like this. If you are madly in love with your beautiful wife, call her hot. Is that not what she is… again, we are all just playing with semantics here.
June 25th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
I think those who are all fired up over this, on some level tend to attach
value to beauty. My wife and I talk about this all the time. There are
people that I do not think are cute but they are valuable to me. Their
looks has nothing to do with their value. There is a difference between
physical beauty and all around beauty.
June 25th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
I do not think I will be able to keep up with where all this is going in these
comments but I do think Ingrid is correct when she mentions that a man
proclaiming that his wife is “hot” in a public forum like this just degrades
his wife.
A true man who truly fears God will protect his wife’s virtue rather than
try to sound cool to a bunch of worldly degenerate people.
Ingrid’s initial comments are the correct perspective on this issue.
I thank God that she is making an effort at pursuing holiness and
purity. This is one thing which we are in desperate need of today.
The XXXChurch guys are a perfect example of so-called “christians”
who love the world and are not ashamed to hang out with corruption.
They like this stuff otherwise they would be giving those in porn the
actual gospel in tears, weeping over theirs sins and for their
eternally damned souls.
Lord help us get back to purity and hatred
of sin
June 25th, 2007 at 6:04 pm
Iggy says,
“Instead of judging me as you often do, you could try so seek common ground.
If what I said about the Kingdom is not true to you… I would then wonder which of the Kingdoms I spoke of you are working on.”
Who’s judging who?
What common ground?
I’d really like to know why you think or wonder if I’m working for the kingdom of Satan. That’s what you’re implying, isn’t it? That’s quite a daring thing to say.
Much more serious than telling someone you think they need to apologize for a remark they’ve made.
So why do you think (or wonder if) I’m working for the kingdom of Satan? What is my “bad fruit?”
June 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
Yes, Nathan, call her hot, voluptuous, sexy, boxum, shapely, and really anything you want. Do not do it publicly because it draws attention to things that are only for each other.
Johnny (12 yr. old) - Hey Jimmy, pastor said his wife was hot!
Jimmy (12 yr. old) - Yea, but I think Mrs. Hamilton, the music leader’s wife is hotter!
Johnny - Why?
Jimmy - She looks like Jennifer Lopez and my older brother said she was real hot. Come on, let’s do a search for “hot girls” on the internet and see what come up.
Come on, Nathan, I’m not a prude and I made some jokes about the Adam and Eve picture, but it is inappropriate to refer to your wife as hot. Do a search engine on hot girls and see what you get and if you think the pictures the internet provides are for church company, post them.
By the way, it is my opinion that the Song of Solomon is symbolic of the Lord and the church, the Lord and Israel, and the Lord and a believer then it ever was intended to be a marriage instructional guide. One reference to breasts and the Christian world takes that to mean God desires open sexual references. That is not my view.
June 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
So Nathan, if I find my husband or sons typing in “hotties” in Google should I just ignore it, laugh and say . . .
SEMANTICS!
June 25th, 2007 at 6:06 pm
By valuable to me, I mean they have value. Because a person’s value
should have nothing to do with looks.
June 25th, 2007 at 6:09 pm
Just for the record, my wife is both ‘hot’ (physically and emotionally attractive) and ‘cool’ (Easy going and ‘relevant’ - one of her nicknames is ‘Cool Mother of Thunder’ (long story)).
I have to say that I’m rather baffled by the discussion to this point - EVERYONE seems to be WAY TOO uptight over semantics.
I do see that Ingrid’s view is rather Victorian and a number of those who disagree with her are rather pomo in their views. In the matter at hand, I have to say that it seems that Ingrid is making a mountain out of a molehill, but that in our disagreement we need to strive to be as charitable to those who disagree with us as we desire them to be with us (and those they currently criticize.
Extolling the virtues of your spouse - physically, spiritually, etc. - I see as a good thing (as long as they agree), though I also would use the same caution as Rob Bell in Sex God in keeping some things ‘under the Chuppah’ in order to preserve what is private and special just that - private and special…
June 25th, 2007 at 6:11 pm
Wow, Chris L., balance.
June 25th, 2007 at 6:13 pm
amy,
I think you are being a bit extreme here in your analogies (which seems to be a pattern). Googling a term - even innocent ones - often can turn up rather raunchy content…
June 25th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Amy…
Any fruit that comes from us is bad… get it? we are the bad trees… God is the good tree… only His Fruit is Good…
If you cared to read closely I did not say YOU were in the kingdom of Satan… but that we need to take notice if we are working on our own kingdumbs instead of Gods.
Again, your defensiveness blinds you from what i am really saying.
This is also why I really do not care to converse with you as you cannot get past the “personal” even if it is not personally aimed at you.
I think I will end this now with you.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 6:14 pm
just to clarify - ’seems to be a pattern’ was not meant to be only directed at you, amy…
June 25th, 2007 at 6:22 pm
Google the word “Cross” and see what you get. There’s some stuff that will make you go, “huh?”
June 25th, 2007 at 6:33 pm
MY defensiveness, huh, Iggy? Amazing how a conversation can go from having different opinions on the need to apologize to whether or not one is in the kingdom of God.
It’s just not every day that someone says something like this to me:
“If you are a part of that i would call out to you to repent and come to Jesus today… to lay down your kingdom and seek and dwell in His.”
Implying:
I need to repent of my kingdom, or kingdumb as you also labeled it.
I have not already come to Jesus.
I am not seeking his kingdom.
Is it really defensiveness that makes me want to know what on earth you’re talking about, or am I just normal?
I understand that these ideas are at the root of the doctrine that divides you from a number of people. Maybe someday someone else can explain to me just what you are saying. It sounds to me (from reading other stuff you’ve written, not just here) like you have some mysterious ideas (mysterious in that I can’t get at what your saying) about how one really gets into the kingdom. Some, FULL, FULL surrender or something. And from what I can tell those who disagree with your thinking haven’t reached that surrender. (I’ve never seen you address Chris, Joe, Matt, Nathan, or Neil with the idea they need to repent of their kingdoms - did I just miss it?) Your ideas seem like some kind of adaptation of the charismatic idea of “second blessing.”
June 25th, 2007 at 6:44 pm
Joe,
So since the word “Cross” has various meanings if someone sings a song blaspheming the cross should I just say, “Oh, that’s just “semantics?”
Seriously, how far can we take the term “semantics” to okay things? Nathan has used it before in discussions of word like the f word I believe . . .
June 25th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Amy,
Again…. IF is a word you seem to miss… a lot…. such as in this case again…
“If you are a part of that…” was how I started the sentence… which implies IF you are not, then don’t worry, go your way, be happy, fruitful and multiply…
Yet, again you missed that one little word…. IF…. which left it open that you may be fine… BUT IF you are doing as I said you do need to consider my words and stop building your own kingdom…
I am not sure how to get much clearer than that with you.
I believe one must die to self (realise we are dead in our sins),accept Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit… pretty simple…
We choose to give up our life, which the bible teaches is really death and receive Life….
It is not about really, really really surrender… it is about death to life.
As far as the second blessing I never bought into that and never will… we are blessed by partaking in the death of Jesus at the Cross and raised to Life in His resurrection.
It is death, burial resurrection…
Not believe in Jesus and go to heaven… or get out of hell or whatever Ken and JM and others teach… it is a mystery called Jesus as Paul refers to Him in the Bible.
Blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
amy,
if you google “man”, you will find all the gay porn you want. Are we now judging words by their Google results?
June 25th, 2007 at 7:07 pm
I am the one who wrote about Abraham and Sarah. The church is very carnal . Even our twin sons can’t stand “kids church” anymore because they encourgae kids to bring as many friends as possible, then they can throw food at the children’s pastor. !!!!!!!!!!! Is this normal? I guess so, if you watch Nickolodian. Our kids don’t watch it…or American Idol….but congregations have even brought THAT into the house of God as some clown gets up and sings I’ve got friends in Low places….” SO when someone as a PASTOR gets up and gushes over Knocked Up and other PASTORS gush about all the movies they’ve seen and how hot their wife is …we just look at you and wonder….ARE YOU PART OF THE SAME BODY OF CHRIST? I mean…Jesus called us OUT of the WORLD…TO WIN IT by proclaming TRUTH…..If you are not encouraging your people to lay down the things of this world , then you must be encouraging them to maintain their sins….I sin…you sin…we all sin….But it is not my master….the fact that XXX church came about is because the church STOPPED PREACHING AGAINST SIN…so we got porno pastors in the pulpit….pastors just as carnal as the world….that is INSANITY…..not the fact that some on fire believers are calling the church to repentence and holiness…..are you calling your people to NASHVILLE on 7/7/07 to FAST AND PRAY AND WEEP BEFORE THE LORD FOR OUR SINS? if not………..WHY !!!!!!!!
We do not have time to fill our minds with rot…it is time for prayer..worship…warfare….or have you not noticed satan has a stranglehold on most in America? Even when Ted Haggard was outed…their church continued on with their “schedule comdey night”…………..HUH ????????????
Your PASTOR has just been exposed as a lying hypocrite gay boy and you’re gonna get a few cheap laughs….IS EVERYONE BLIND?? hit your knees, hit your face, stop playing games with God pretending you’re a disciple when you lust after everything the world has to offer….!! I think those people should have had a prayer meeting…but that’s just me.
June 25th, 2007 at 7:30 pm
Amy, I was saying that if you google the word “cross” you will get webpages that have content that is out there. I’m not sure I follow the rest of your comment to me in that light.
June 25th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
This from KennyO
and this from the religious leaders of Jesus’ Day
While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. 11When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ’sinners’?”
Matthew 9
Is it just me or do they sound alike?
June 25th, 2007 at 7:59 pm
Joe,
I see it… clear as a the Light of day.
blessings,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 8:53 pm
There are none so blind as those who just will not see.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Ken,
I’m amazed you keep using that here, when you should be saying it to a mirror….
June 25th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Ken,
One of the key verses on this topic is Matthew 15: 11-14
Since you brought this up… I thought a little context for you might help…
“What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him `unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him `unclean.’”
Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”
He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.
Leave them; they are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”
Now, much of this is what I seem to repeat very often to you…
1. What you say reveals your heart
2. Pharisees get offended over truth
3. God will judge bad plants (that bear bad fruit)
4. those who can’t see this in themselves are blind guides.
Now, as I read your comments and missives and get to know you a bit… I can’t help but SEE these as something that you can really learn from if you simply humbled yourself and listened to God about this. (This is just good advise to all… and without having to learn it, often daily myself I would not dare try to share these truths with you)
Be Blessed,
iggy
June 25th, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Amy,
I would have not problem if my kid googled the word “hottie.”
I would laugh and I am sure it would bring about conversation, but I would not care at all! My kids will find the opposite sex attractive one day! I am sure I will hear my daughters talk about a “Hot guy they see or know! I say let them enjoy the beauty of Gods creation! Heck just yesterday I saw a very hot guy. I told Joe right away, that I thought that guy was hot! He laughed and said He knew I would think that. I think my husband is hot! I desire no one but him but a switch did not go off in brain the day I got married either.
It amazes me that the word ” Hot” is being tied to spirituality! It is sad. When we over react to words and remain private, and silent is when Satan is able to get a foot hold into our lives. Joe and I counsel with couples all time; we simply tell them to talk about everything. If Joe finds a women besides me to be ” hot” he comes home and tells me and vice versa. We are all human. However, it is when couples get so hung up in terminology and so insecure about their own looks that trouble creeps into marriages. We are suppose to be one flesh with our spouse. You should talk about everything you think and feel. If for no other reason, to keep the Devil out or your relationship. A husband should be attracted to his wife! It should make a wife feel proud that her husband defines her as “Hot!” If you don’t like that term than it should make a wife feel proud if her husband says she is beautiful. They both mean the same.
June 25th, 2007 at 9:55 pm
Welcome back to the fray Chris L. Please believe me when I say that I do sincerely hope that you and your son enjoyed your time together.
June 25th, 2007 at 10:14 pm
“are you calling your people to NASHVILLE on 7/7/07 to FAST AND PRAY AND WEEP BEFORE THE LORD FOR OUR SINS? if not………..WHY !!!!!!!!”
ok… that made me laugh. alot.
June 25th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
While reading these comments, my mind went to a Bible verse:
“Jesus wept.”
I wouldn’t be suprised if He was doing it again, over this controversey.
June 26th, 2007 at 7:07 am
I still remember reading Song of Solomon for the first time as a new believer and thinking “Dude, this is in the Bible!!?”
I then immediately repented for using the word “Dude”.
June 26th, 2007 at 8:22 am
Thank you Ken - it was an amazing trip (though it will take a while to recover, physically. My body at 39 isn’t what it was at 19 when it comes to camping for several weeks on end…)
June 26th, 2007 at 9:55 am
Not a problem Chris.
I value family and have a heart for the young. O, and I totally understand re. the ol’ body.
At 51 I’m finding I have to make adjustments because the mind still thinks the body can do stuff it can no longer do.
June 26th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
I am reading some of these comments and laughing.
I asked my wife if she found it offensive that I say that she is “hot”..she said no…it makes here feel good that her husband thinks that about her.
I know that I am blessed to have such a beautiful, caring, supportive wife…and have no doubts that she is a gift from God.
Because as my dad would say, “Boy, you out punted your coverage”.
You know the term that I find offensive…”straw man”. I hate that! Why is it when ‘they’ don’t agree with a statement it is always the “proverbial straw man”?
Peace!
June 26th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Jimmy,
I am there with your wife. I do not find the word offensive at all! In fact, I can not even see the other side of this. (those who find it offensive!)
June 26th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
“Amy,
I would have not problem if my kid googled the word “hottie.â€
I would laugh and I am sure it would bring about conversation, but I would not care at all! ”
And we wonder why …
June 26th, 2007 at 1:47 pm
We wonder why….what?
June 26th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
You’re ready Joe for a fight? Go somewhere else. You are so very predictable.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:17 pm
No fighting here, Rick. I’d just like you to fill in that blank. I agree with my wife. Obviously we (her and I) disagree with you on many many things. The term hottie just being one. I’ve got my fresh brewed tea and cheez-it’s. I’m cool.
June 26th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
[…] I have read countless posts on different blogs where ’so-called’ Christians are attacking other Christians on stupid stuff like whether or not one should refer to one’s wife as being ‘hot’. How freaking ridiculous! (see CRN.info or Moviepastor.com or..if you dare…Slice of Laodicia) […]
June 26th, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Erica,
You said, “I would have not problem if my kid googled the word “hottie.—
I seriously hope that you wrote that without actually trying to google “hottie.” Because if you tried to google “hottie” and then wrote it after seeing what you saw, your kids are in trouble. I mean that seriously. In a previous generation perhaps purposefully exposing your kids to such erotic pictures would have been grounds for having your kids taken away from you.
As for the word “cross” Joe, I mean that if Christians continue to have the practice of adapting things that they just get used to hearing and try to turn them into something “innocent,” well, it can work with all kinds of other words.
For example, if people use a cross gesture in a vile way, but it becomes common in our culture, so that using it is just “semantics,” Christians will use it as well - after all, “it doesn’t really mean anything any more.”
The last movie I walked out on was Wallace and Grommet’s wererabbit. Yes, the cucumber cross was fake, and the whole thing was meant to be a farce, but I felt sick when the invisible wererabbit creature took the cucumber cross, ate it, BURPED loudly . . . and I especially felt sick when the kiddies in the theatre thought that was hilarious.
That followed a “g -rated” introduction filled with embedded pg-13 (?) level cuss words, also met with great laughter by kids, and their parents. Yes, I should have left then.
This is our culture, and Christians blindly follow it.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:37 pm
There’s this really great organic juice from Australia called Nudie…
June 26th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
Amy,
I’ll let Erica address the brunt of your post and I’d like to look at one part of it. And despite Rick’s insuation earlier I am not looking for a fight. You said,
I’m having trouble making the jump from my kids googleing hottie to “purposely exposing my kids to such erotic pictures”
I’m not sure you understood what Erica was saying. We’re not going to go tell our kids to look at Porn and if they see stuff that is pornographic we will talk about it. In fact, I think if you look at the post my wife made she said something to the effect we would talk about it. If they did google hottie the filter on their computer will catch most of it.
The truth is I don’t need google to introduce my kids to broken people exposing themselves in a way that is catastrophically destroying their body. I have my neighbors and the broken people in my town who can do that. To make the jump from the phrase “my wife is too hot to be a grandmother” to porn requires stronger leg muscles than I have.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Erica,
Regarding what I wrote above, Erica, from the page of “hottie” that I looked at, 5-6 were blocked on my computer. The ones that weren’t blocked I knew in a couple of seconds were stuff I wouldn’t want to look at. I don’t want to think about what the blocked ones looked like.
One page was more than I could take.
Sexual promiscuity, pornography, etc isn’t just something that you look at it and it goes away. It’s something that can affect your soul. Please protect your children.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Amy,
That’s actually one of the few movies I own. I honestly can’t even remember that scene, really. That was also one of the few movies I allowed to be shown on the big screen of the facility our campus church meets at.
I’m not condemning you or making fun of you for your choice. Everyone is free to decide those things for themselves.
June 26th, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Joe,
As you know my original point with “hottie” was that I wouldn’t want my husband and sons to be looking into it. Erica didn’t present it as something that she would let the kids do because the filter would catch it. She wrote it in the attitude of “laughter” and “enjoying God’s creation.” She said,
“I would have not problem if my kid googled the word “hottie.â€
I would laugh and I am sure it would bring about conversation, but I would not care at all! My kids will find the opposite sex attractive one day! I am sure I will hear my daughters talk about a “Hot guy they see or know! I say let them enjoy the beauty of Gods creation! Heck just yesterday I saw a very hot guy. I told Joe right away, that I thought that guy was hot! He laughed and said He knew I would think that. I think my husband is hot! I desire no one but him but a switch did not go off in brain the day I got married either.”
June 26th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
I understand, what I am saying is Erica wasn’t trying to say we’re going to tell our kids to go look at porn, which you seemed to be implying (to me) in your 3:37 post.
My point is my kids can see “sexual promiscuity” right next door. I’m hearing them right now as I type this. I’ll let Erica answer the rest for herself.
June 26th, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Joe,
heck, if you didn’t have your neighbors you’d always have the sunday am quasi-religious exercise and social club…ooops…I mean “church”. =)
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