CRN.Info and Analysis

I have to say, the conversation has flowed very freely here the last few days and I think that is great. There has been some silly bantering on both sides though. Therefore I have decided to offer these rules that have greatly shaped my life in the last ten years. They all have corresponding Scripture with them. I greatly encourage everyone here to read them and comment accordingly. I’m sure we’ll all fall short of these to some extent but I feel we should at least try. I direct you here to learn some valuable guidelines that will greatly enhance every relationship in your life.

(HT: Iggy)

From Cultintervention.com:

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

I will admit that I was originally skeptical when I first heard about this, but Ken does, indeed, meet 9 of the 10 criteria…

If we are going to post here about the not so accurate posts on the watchdoggie’s blogs, we need to respect them when they post accurate information or clarify a point.  Mike Ratcliff recently did a second part on his blog about obedience and conflict.  It is a much more biblical view than  his previous statement of

“If you are being obedient to God and you are actually drawing closer to the majority of professing Christians then you only THINK you are being obedient to God.”

His latest blog opens with this line:

While Christians must pursue peace and unity with all whenever possible, that does not mean that they should ever be at peace with false teaching, false teachers, false preachers, or false leaders. The conflict that arises when we obediently confront error, as Jesus did and as Paul did, is most disagreeable. I, for one, do not like it. I have a deep desire to be at peace with everyone, but when those who disagree with the truth from God’s Word descend upon me simply for stating it, refusing to be sucked into unfruitful debate about it, or for rebuking those who refuse to repent then I must remain obedient and ready to continue in that obedience.

Kudos from me Mike.  We may disagree over what a “false teacher” is, but I think we can agree that we should not be at peace with them.  Keep up the good work.

This is rather unusual for this blog/format, but I would like to take a comment from the thread started yesterday by Nathan (thanks!) and elevate it to a post of its own - because of its tone, content and concise thought.  I could not agree more, and I only wish I could write as thoughful and sarcasm-free comments as this gentleman (who is a first-time commenter on this blog):

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Ken,

I don’t know you, and I don’t know all your motives, but I will assume that you do what you do out of a sincere conviction and love.

I am a frequent visitor of CRN, and I’ve read much of your problems with ‘emergent’, the ‘emerging church’, Rob Bell, Donald Miller, Brian Mclaren, Erwin McManus, and others.

I do agree with some of what you say on CRN, namely about T.D. Jakes, Sylvia Brown, and maybe a few others (though I disagree with you centering on T.D. Jakes ideas of the trinity and not pointing out the equally important fact of his lavish lifestyle and false teachings about a ‘rich’ Jesus)

One of my main concerns is what you’ve said about Donald Miller. First of all, you label him ‘emergent’, which is pretty untruthful, unloving, and wrong. And your arguments against him…I dunno, but this link here contains a quote from him: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/02/is_donald_mille.html

Then after quoting him, you proceed to tear him apart, label him emergent, and denounce his ‘teachings’ as heretical. You take one quote, and then you pretty much tell him what he meant. That’s not how it works. As Paul washer has said, you have to read the whole book to see what he meant. and I recommend reading Searching For God Knows What by Donald Miller if you haven’t yet. It may clear things up. If not, well, I’m sorry that you have that misunderstanding of him. And, by the way, his church, Imago Dei, is ‘reformed,’ as you also seem to be and as Paul Washer is (I’m pretty sure.) I hope your perception and (hopefully) misunderstandings about Miller will clear up.

When I first read all your info on Rob Bell, I thought some things you said were somewhat valid. (By the way, thanks for having a link to his sermon on revelation, I loved it)

However, when I got his book, Velvet Elvis, and got to read it myself, I was shocked at how some of the things he said were distorted . For example he said “you can’t simply do what the Bible says.” But in the book, Bell goes on to explain why- because before we can do it, we have to decide what it means!!! Before we can love our neighbor, we have to understand and decide what love is, what it looks like, who our neighbor is, etc. Before we can believe in Jesus we have to understand who Jesus is, what believing means, whether it is simply agreeing to a list of ideas or not. (Donald Miller talks quite a bit about the whole agreeing to a list of ideas/facts in his book SFGKW)

I recommend being very wise in which battles you choose, as well as reading what John has to say in 1 John about what God wants from us: 1) to believe in Jesus, and 2) to love one another. It seems to me that those two things, along with loving the Lord our God, are really the core and essentials of our faith.

love in Christ,

Tim

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Thank you, Tim.