CRN.Info and Analysis

Issue: Watchblogging and Watchbloggers

CRN’s Take: (All taken from an article on CRN on 1/26/07. The article was later removed, but it is reposted here. I have removed the names/organizations/websites of individuals involved and the ministry specifics to make it generic.)

There is a campaign of destruction underway in the church. There are lies being passed off as truth; there is slander and gossip and the carnage that is being caused is causing long-term harm to the cause of the Gospel of Christ. [...] I’m talking about the seamy underbelly of what goes on in the name of “discernment ministry.” I have been in ministry since 1988 and I can say with confidence that the enemy of Jesus Christ has to do very little. The church is really, really good at destroying itself.

[...]

This post is prompted by an ongoing attack against [a Christian organization I support] by several in the “discernment” community. These attacks have also been against me and [a website run by a colleague of mine in the Christian blogosphere]. The squalor of the dealings that have taken place would rival that of anything you would find in a secular workplace and it saddens me to say that.

[...]

Another example: [A watchblogger] of the [name of watchblog] website informed [a supporter/contributor of mine] that if he didn’t stop [associating with my website/ministry], (because we were compromised), he would [take some sort of action against me].

[...]

Because [watchbloggers A, B and C] don’t agree with [an associate] because, as [watchblogger A] sneeringly puts it in his latest column, he is a “dear friend” of [a member] at [the Christian organization I support], I am tainted goods to be avoided at all costs.

[...]

What is most disturbing in this case is the gossip and false information that has been carried by these “discernment” folks. One researcher who sought to reconcile with me and who apologized for helping to spread false information was warned ahead of time to “be careful” if he talked to me. [My colleague] was labeled a dangerous “change agent”, and I was accused of being an adherent to [a heretical theological interpretation], despite [evidence to the contrary]. This gossip and slander continues unabated at this hour. Worse still, these individuals are publishing columns and links to columns, like the one on [a watchblog site], blasting [a member of the Christian organization I support] for “promoting” [a doctrine neither I, nor he supports]. These people have been harassing [this man] for months, demanding that he [fall into line with their way of thinking]. They have deliberately sought to find what evil they can on the [website and writings of the Christian organization I support]. The only people finding [hiding heresies] on [this man's] site are the ones spending their time looking for them: [Watchbloggers A, B and C].

This is the closest thing to a nasty personal vendetta, couched in pious language, I have seen recently. [Watchblogger A's] language isn’t all that pious, actually, as he calls [my Christian brother] a hypocrite and derisively refers to his friendship with [my colleague] in his latest column. [Watchbloggers A and B] are not in a position of authority to demand that [my Christian brother] carry out his organization’s work according to [A and B's] own standards. We answer to the Lord for our own ministries, not [A and B]. Further, the outrageous and threatening behavior of [Watchblogger B] toward [another colleague] in trying to force him to [comply with his 'discernment' wishes] is evidence that something is clearly out of control in these [watchblogger's] minds and hearts.[...] That is mafioso behavior, not the behavior of a brother in Christ.

[...]

I felt that the truth on false teaching and error was most important to get out. Things have reached a point, however, where it is plain that the false teaching entering the church isn’t the most important thing that needs addressing. This situation has been simmering underground for months. With [watchblogger A, B and C's] latest attack on [my Christian brother] today, it has erupted into the face of the Christian public.

[...]

Is Christianity just a matter of holding right positions, or should it impact how we relate to each other as believers? Are the commands of Scripture telling us to be tender-hearted and forgiving of one another less important than the verses about heresy and false teaching? Is gossip and slander okay if it is conducted by those knee deep in research on [a doctrine we disagree with]? If [non-Christians] have more personal peace and treat people more kindly than born-again Christians, doesn’t it say something about the content of our hearts? We can rant and rave about [doctrines we disagree with] until we’re blue in the face, but if we can’t reconcile with fellow believers who believe the same things and would prefer to publicly find fault and attack them because they don’t do everything the way we do, we have nothing to share with the world. We become frauds.

[...]

When soldiers begin to turn and shoot their own, combat fatigue has set in. No general would long keep soldiers like this in the field. Speaking from my own experience, combat fatigue is a huge menace in this job. I have had to cut back because of my own dangerous level of fatigue recently. How long the Lord will keep any of us in the field if these issues are not resolved, is questionable. Like the church at Ephesus in the book of Revelation, we can become very good at discerning error from truth, but when we’ve lost our first love for the Lord Jesus, it starts showing in our relationships. The Lord’s words warn us that he will put our lampstands out completely if we don’t repent. It’s a wake up call for all of us involved in putting out this information.

My Take: Were I to fill in different names and ministries, I would be hard pressed to write something in more agreement with my own beliefs. The problem is, Ingrid and Ken’s names would be in the place of Watchbloggers A and B, and Slice/CRN would be the watchblog in question. Ken’s shrill (and, fortunately, ignored) brow-beating of Ed Young, Jr.; his lie-filled spewing against Rob Bell; Ingrid’s attacks of anything which smacks of relevancy or “Purpose Driven”. These and more are perfect examples of what she has written about above, but she cannot (or will not) see it. The sheer hypocrisy it took to write that piece is mind-blowing, and I am guessing she realized this and it is why the article got pulled.

Jesus summed up this particular situation best when he noted

The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

CRN/Slice does come up with good items from time to time.  Having good discernment ministries are important, but Slice/CRN, Lighthouse Trails and Paul Proctor are not examples of good discernment ministries.  They have forgotten the second greatest commandment, and in doing so, they have voilated the first, as well.

While Jesus was a boy, the Rabbi Hillel taught, “don’t do to your enemy that which you hate.”  When Jesus grew up and was in ministry, he took Hillel’s teaching a huge step further and said to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” - and that this was how we were to fulfil the second greatest commandment - to love our neighbor as ourself.

Ingrid - can you not even fulfil the smallest part of loving your neighbor - to not do to your enemy that which you hate (GBA attacks, straw men, vicious mean-spirited attacks on Christians you disagree with)?  Perhaps you could start there.

I truly do feel your pain.  I have felt it for a number of Christian brothers over this past year as I have watched you and “Pastor” Silva do the same to them.  I do not wish you any ill, and I would hope that maybe in this experience you will treat those with whom you disagree in a manner in which you would like those who disagree with you to treat you.

Is there such a thing as a “half-Christian?” There is according to some of people commenting on Steve Camp’s Blog. There has been a furious discussion going on over there about Francis Chan’s video called “Stop and Think.”
The heart of the debate is whether or not what Mr. Chan has to say should be considered “the Gospel.”
Now, here’s what I find interesting about this whole debate. If you listen to the thoughts and arguments being presented, the general gist is that “words matter.”
That is words matter until you start to question some of the people on Mr. Camps side of the issue over the Chan video. I imagine some of them might be upset by my phrasing here, but as the saying goes about what is good for the proverbial Goose…
One of the first terms that you will find in the post itself is that a half Gospel is capable of producing only a half Christian. Really? Now, I’d like to give a pass here and say hyperbole was being used to prove a point, but the statement is re-affirmed time and time again throughout the thread. So, I’m curious. What is a “half Christian?” Is that the same as being half pregnant? As a father of three under four I hope that never happens. This doesn’t apply to salvation either. A man or woman is either saved or they are not. He is either on his way to heaven or not. She is either redeemed/regenerated or she is an enemy of God. I can hear some in the other camp (pardon the pun) saying, “Hold on, you’re taking what we said, too literally. Of course you can’t be half saved.” But as they have pointed out time and time again, what we say or don’t say matters. I’m just looking for the same standard to be applied to this webpage that is applied by that webpage to others.
In essence this phrase seems to me to border on being heretical. If we are to deny the permanent saving work of the cross and say how we present the Gospel can somehow effect the totality of someone’s salvation we are rendering the Gospel useless. If it is indeed hyperbole to make a point, then there is some level of inconsistency going on here. The entire string of posts seems dedicated to pointing out the flaws in what Mr. Chan had to say. It would seem only sporting that we apply the same vigorous standards to what is posted by those doing the examining.
It seems to me that this phrase contradicts their belief system. Most of the commenters claim to be reformed in their worldview. How can a truly reformed person believe in a situation where someone is only half saved? Besides seeming unbiblical to me it seems to not follow the belief system the profess to believe.
The second term that comes up that gives me reason to pause and consider is the term “Win.” It is God that does the work, and not me. Now, when I brought this up in the thread’s discussion. I was told to not worry too much about the term win. But doesn’t that fly in the face of the standard that they applied to Mr. Chan and his video? Shouldn’t anyone who is commenting on a teacher of God be careful because in a real sense aren’t they by questioning a teacher in essence becoming teachers themselves? Surely, this is how a Jewish person in the time of James would have understood his warning that not many should assume to be teachers.
So, applying the same rules to them one quickly finds a problem with this phrase, “win them with.”

Some more of my favorite quotes:

1. “The people who hear this don’t have discernment, and those who are converted by the film are starting out in their faith with a serious misunderstanding of our natural relationship to God.”
2. “…this is a pastor of a church who purposely is NOT including these things…”
3. “-I made a qualifying remark that my critique of this film is by no means an indictment against this brothers local church ministry.”

For #1. Don’t we all have to grow in our understanding of our relationship with God?

#3 seems to blatantly contradict #2.
My point here is not to pick on these people, in fact I have found that I enjoy interacting with them. They are passionate about what they believe and I respect that. I disagree with some of their conclusions but I respect the passion that they approach it with. My point is to expose the slippery slope that is critiquing someone else’s Gospel ministry. Often, when we approach evaluating someone else’s ministry we hold them to a much higher standard than we do ourselves as evidenced by the comments found on Camp’s post.
We can “camp on this”: “By whatever measure we judge others, we will be judged.” Not only is this truth human nature, it is Biblical.

“For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.” —Jesus

Well, it seems that Ingrid’s article decrying the tactics of watchbloggers which Joe wrote about here, and Scott covered over at Verum Serum was pulled. Fortunately, some of us have come to expect such attempts to say and un-say things over at Slice/CRN (like, um, pulling down the entire site and deleting it…)

Here, via internet not-so-wayback technology is the text of Ingrid’s article. Look for more commentary to come later…

[Update: Ingrid has threatened us with a lawsuit because she doesn't want this article seen. As such, and to be safe withing copyright law, I am only quoting key parts of the article below. Should anyone want a full copy of what was here, check out the internet way-back machine.]

Here are selected quotes of interest from the article:

There is a campaign of destruction underway in the church. There are lies being passed off as truth; there is slander and gossip and the carnage that is being caused is causing long-term harm to the cause of the Gospel of Christ. No, I’m not talking about attacks from emergent church followers or outraged Purpose Driven disciples. I’m talking about the seamy underbelly of what goes on in the name of “discernment ministry.” I have been in ministry since 1988 and I can say with confidence that the enemy of Jesus Christ has to do very little. The church is really, really good at destroying itself.

[...]

What is most disturbing in this case is the gossip and false information that has been carried by these “discernment” folks. One researcher who sought to reconcile with me and who apologized for helping to spread false information was warned ahead of time to “be careful” if he talked to me. [...] Worse still, these individuals are publishing columns and links to columns, like the one on [Another blog], blasting [a friend] for “promoting” contemplative. These people have been harassing [this man] for months, demanding that he conduct his decency organization like their own “discernment” ministries. They have deliberately sought to find what evil they can on the American Family Association secular online bookstore link that they use for the sale of their own books. The only people finding New Age and contemplative books on [his] site are the ones spending their time looking for them: [Watchbloggers A, B and C]].

This is the closest thing to a nasty personal vendetta, couched in pious language, I have seen recently. [Watchblogger A's] language isn’t all that pious, actually, as he calls [my friend] a hypocrite and derisively refers to his friendship with [another friend] in his latest column. [Watchblogger A] and [Watchblogger B] are not in a position of authority to demand that [my friend] carry out his organization’s work according to [Watchblogger A's] and [Watchblogger B's] own standards. We answer to the Lord for our own ministries, not [Watchblogger A] and [Watchblogger B].
[...]

Is Christianity just a matter of holding right positions, or should it impact how we relate to each other as believers? Are the commands of Scripture telling us to be tender-hearted and forgiving of one another less important than the verses about heresy and false teaching? Is gossip and slander okay if it is conducted by those knee deep in research on contemplative spirituality? If some New Agers have more personal peace and treat people more kindly than born-again Christians, doesn’t it say something about the content of our hearts? We can rant and rave about contemplative spirituality, meditation, breath prayers and yoga until we’re blue in the face, but if we can’t reconcile with fellow believers who believe the same things and would prefer to publicly find fault and attack them because they don’t do everything the way we do, we have nothing to share with the world. We become frauds.

[...]

When soldiers begin to turn and shoot their own, combat fatigue has set in. No general would long keep soldiers like this in the field. Speaking from my own experience, combat fatigue is a huge menace in this job. I have had to cut back because of my own dangerous level of fatigue recently. How long the Lord will keep any of us in the field if these issues are not resolved, is questionable. Like the church at Ephesus in the book of Revelation, we can become very good at discerning error from truth, but when we’ve lost our first love for the Lord Jesus, it starts showing in our relationships. The Lord’s words warn us that he will put our lampstands out completely if we don’t repent. It’s a wake up call for all of us involved in putting out this information.

There you go!

_____

Addendum:

Ingrid’s reason for taking down the post from her site was because it had hurt some relationships and she did not want those wounds reopened.  In this spirit, while keeping with our own policy to not delete articles, I have excerpted the article above while redacting the names from it.  My reason for posting this article was because of the commentary on the attitude and behavior of watchbloggers and the irony of its authorship, with no interest of the names of those specifically involved.  Per Ingrid’s wishes, I do not wish to open old wounds, so the names of the individuals do not appear here…

–Chris L 12/28/07